Philippines typhoon aftermath: Religion as solace

[cbayer]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/15/world/asia/philippines-typhoon-tacloban-religion/



By Jethro Mullen, CNN
updated 3:59 AM EST, Sun November 17, 2013

Tacloban City, The Philippines (CNN) -- The day after the typhoon, Father Edwin Bacaltos stepped out of the compound of the Church of Our Mother of Perpetual Help in central Tacloban and began his work.

The scene was one of unspeakable horror. Dead bodies were strewn all over the place. The debris of shattered buildings and their contents filled the street.

Father Bacaltos' self-appointed task that day was to bless the bodies that lay scattered around his parish.

He crossed the road to the hospital opposite the church compound, tending to each of the corpses in its grounds. He then moved onto other areas that weren't blocked off by walls of wreckage.

more at link

[skepticscott]

1. Of course, you'd think that the solace from a god that actually existed

would have been to prevent all of this death and destruction in the first place. But the religionists and apologists here will no doubt argue that "god" had a "plan" and that we can't expect to understand his thinking, but must just accept that this is all for the best. Rather than simply acknowledge what sane and intelligent people do, that the world looks pretty much just the way we'd expect if there were no "god" at all.

[madrchsod]

2. what gives you the moral authority to judge those who are effected by this hurricane?

why do you think you are better than these people because you do not believe in god and they do?

funny i think of myself as a sane and an intelligent person who believes in spirituality but to you i`m not.

oh well, to each their own or should i close with judge not lest you be judged..

[skepticscott]

3. Show me where I said any of that

and I'll stop laughing my ass off and answer you.

[AtheistCrusader]

4. "judge not lest you be judged"

This seems more like the sort of admonition one would use against someone who actually believed in the bible/truth of the contents therein.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Many of those affected pointed out much the same as skepticscott

From the article:

Many of them asked the pastor how God could let such a calamity befall this predominantly Catholic city.
...
"It was an act of God," he said, a silver crucifix hanging from his neck and a wound gradually healing on his right arm. "Only God is strong enough to do this."
...
In his prayers, he said, he asks for no more calamities.

[skepticscott]

7. There you go

Mucking up the discussion with facts and stuff.

[dimbear]

5. Here's a little analysis of the main engines behind the destruction..........

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/12/the-poverty-and-population-factors-behind-vast-typhoon-losses/?_r=0

Naturally it comes down to poverty and overpopulation. Just for reference, the Philippines is the only significant Christian nation in Asia, and predominantly Catholic.

[trotsky]

8. Tucked behind this notion is a difficult question.

Should we lie to people if it makes them feel better?

Seems to be a near universal aspect of human child-rearing - we tell lies to our children, and the main reason seems to be in order to reinforce a learning lesson that they can't rationally grasp at their age. (Not being able to understand how their behavior affects others, for instance, results in mythical characters like Santa or Krampus who will reward or punish certain actions.)

[skepticscott]

9. Of course, a great many religious "believers" lie to themselves

in order to feel better. They know deep down that they things they profess to believe in church on Sunday morning don't really make sense, but they need them anyway...hence the cognitive dissonance and the need to protect their "faith" from the intrusion of too much rationality.

[trotsky]

10. Worse, IMO, are the non-believers who condescendingly "protect" believers...

by shaming and attacking atheists who openly voice their opinion on religion and belief in gods. It seems like those folks are the ones who are actually being insulting, by implying that some people aren't mature enough to be exposed to some ideas.

[rug]

11. Oh, you're referring to this particularly ugly thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123018423

[hrmjustin]

12. +1

[hrmjustin]

13. They are all in my prayers.

[skepticscott]

14. Given how much good it did

for all of the people there to pray for "god" to protect them BEFORE the typhoon hit, I doubt that's much comfort. Or help. Your "god" doesn't seem too concerned.

[hrmjustin]

15. My prayers won't hurt.

I pray for them to have strength.

[skepticscott]

16. No more than reading the future

in chicken entrails "hurts", I suppose. But that doesn't mean I'd want to encourage it, either.

[hrmjustin]

17. So you don't like prayer. I do so we disagree.

You have made your point that you think it is a waste of time.

[skepticscott]

18. Where did I make that point?

You never get tired of making shit up, do you? Isn't bearing false witness one of those "sin" thingies?

I made the point that it is singularly ineffective as a means of getting what you pray for. If you disagree with THAT, then prove me wrong. I said nothing about it being a "waste of time". But it is potentially dangerous if people think it actually works, and the more people that do, the more the potential for harm, especially if they rely solely on prayer, because of their "faith".

[hrmjustin]

19. So you don't think it is a waste of time?

[rug]

20. You misundersood him. He also dessn't think reading chicken entrails is a waste of time.

I wonder what he'd call repetitive posts complaining about the ineffectiveness of prayer.

[hrmjustin]

21. LOl. His post seemd to me that he thought it was a waste of time.

And I get called a liar for it.

[skepticscott]

22. For me it would be

But if it makes you feel like you're actually doing some good (even if you're not) and less likely to punch people in the face as a result, knock yourself out. Just don't lead anyone else to think that it actually works as a wish list for the genie.

[hrmjustin]

23. I pray for strength to get through things. I know my prayers will not change events.

[Dorian Gray]

24. Not true

the latter hurts the chicken.

A lot.

Just saying.