RG3

[ProfessorGAC]

He;s over.
Defenses figured this out 2 years ago. Otherwise explain Kapernick
And, he's a punk who thought he was the shit. He was never that. Hes lucky his rookie year. I'm so tired of this guy. He's an overrated punk who won't go away.
Sorry. I can't support anyone with that attitude that never had an opinion about that racist name.

[KamaAina]

1. Okay, I'll bite.

Kaep is hardly the same as RG3. He throws much harder, for one thing, and he's seldom been injured. Then again, the team surrounding him has deteriorated almost to the level of the one with the racist name.

[ProfessorGAC]

3. No Argument From Me

He has a better arm, but the concept is the same. The defensive coaches have come up with a fairly simple thing for the defenses rush guys. One guys hits the RB, the other the QB. No other responsibilities. You give an NFL defensive guy just one thing to worry about, and Katy Bar The Door.

[JonLP24]

2. Strange things occured with my DU account or browser mostly

Last edited Wed Sep 2, 2015, 08:21 AM - Edit history (1)

whatever the case with the third party website with the appearances (don't know how it looks on different browsers, wifis, or PCs or related to my mobile devices(hack or something similar but don't know PCs well above basic levels, programs, stuff like that or who and motivation(whether is a group, individual, republicans, etc). Don't know so I just choose to say in because whatever say here I can stand that if left as is but changed is a different story(others appeared edited or went to look for an old PM related to something a poster a poster said and found a message I know I never got from a poster or why the poster would be ribbing me for being "power hungry" to be a host in the Arizona forum which I rarely visit and never been interested to be a "host" a moderator or anything similar event. Just unusual for that and from December '03 which didn't have power or internet and likely didn't post here at DU hardly if it all (more common in January '04, remember for sure after the January '04 (McDonald's). I have a yellow inbox which I'll likely avoid checking for awhile -- when i noticed the "strange" I haven't logged on or came back to DU for probably 3-4 weeks now just to explain.

Anyways, for some reason I couldn't resist taking a peek at LBN and then the sports forum which I couldn't resist actually logging in again to comment on this OP.

For me, I think its way too early to call with RG3 particularly in this stage of his development with the injury at the end of his Rookie (where he was top of the charts most of the league in YPA) which is a major stepback. Shannahan routinely played their quarterbacks or key players (TD migraine decoy) over his career--straight up lied on a first half injury report week 2 @ San Diego - 2003 listing Jake Plummer's torn shoulder as a "concussion" so the defense wouldn't target his torn shoulder but scored enough TDs by halftime Buerlein finished out but returned aggravated it Monday Night then the Kansas City road game (Dante Hall's most famous punt return stunned them late), missed 4 weeks that with tough road match-ups. Buerlein was solid and there were things like Randy Moss's infamous lateral on a hail mary catch on the last play of the half which then was Berlein injured in the second half then Danny Kannell started the New England Monday night game which Kanell Was terrible but Denver had the lead late which is where Belichick made the decision to do an intentional safety, rely on the defense to gain a field position advantage to kick the game. Off track there but a lot of memorable plays and bad luck which could have been avoided by responsible handling an injury to avoid long term costs.

With the setback he lost playing and training time and probably had to retrain to return to where he was and likely could have lost speed or running ability but a QB has to move the ball down the field through the air be successful or a long-term starter. He could also "figure them out" plus there is a wide variety of different defenses, looks, and top & weak defenses. "hits" and "misses" for either QB or the defense. Also training and study to improve skill level and a regression to the mean more likely than continued regression. Turnovers are big and interceptions can occur even when they aren't "bad throws". Its not a stat I focus on much (I look for a 2-1 or higher ratio when judging level for TDs-INT. YPA focus with that but offense line is huge particularly when it is terrible and QB is being rushed all day (can happen easily against St. Louis -- that is scary offense line Larry Fitzgerald last season, Larry Fitzgerald "I'm glad we don't have to play the Rams anymore". That division, all 4 had tough pass defenses and St. Louis and Seattle for the rush. St. Louis was the team that Carson Palmer suffered the season ending injury. 2 weeks later Drew Stanton suffered a season ending injury against St. Louis who, honestly, isn't bad at all gave the team a chance to win (threw the game winning TD against STL after Palmer went down trailing from behind). Only problems were if he missed a first half throw TD throw (Denver, NYG) in the first half not by much than that generally snowballed if the pressure increased. Ryan Lindley was signed used as a starter -- rather than rookie Tyrod Taylor known more his speed but a strong arm at Virginia Tech that broke Bruce Arian's school record for most rushing TDs by a QB. I never seen as QB (Lindley) so terrible receive so much playing time. I felt this his rookie season 2 years ago (his first play was a fumble return TD for Atlanta) and I still have the same opinion. Couldn't move the ball anyway especially against Seattle or Carolina (I cheered loud if the kick return was decent but upset because he didn't make to FG range). Probably 100s of unemployed QBs that would have been better options.

Don't know what factors have influenced these thoughts for you recently so wondering if it was a pre-season game? Which is terrible just due to small sample sizes and coaches generally run vanilla formations, sets, plays -- avoid revealing "wrinkles" that they are holding for the regular season if it was a recent game or performance. It could go either way though depending whether he responds to adversity which a QB will face lots of adversity and that seems to be what makes or breaks them which brings me up to Kaepernick who I feel still played very well last season considering the circumstances.

I remember with Boldin and Michael Floyd out -- 49ers often passed out of a two TE set and would throw the ball very efficiently prior seasons but couldn't remember exactly what it was with the I Boldin never known for high speed but excellent receiver, could catch often in traffic (very underrated receiver). But he didn't have Crabtree's speed so it was very limited as far as what they could do to open up the spacing between defenders for the passing game. He didn't have a lot of 10-20+ yard pass attempts due to its not there so a lot of short pass play-action type of plays. The injuries wrecked them particularly with the sets, receivers, and running the ball with Gore less for some reason (they had more success with more carries and would have been better with opening things up in the passing game and play-action) .

Kaepernick opened the season on a high note deep TD pass to Vernon Davis against Dallas. Had a similar start against Chicago but a lot of things went wrong team-wide in the second half, especially the penalties. He didn't play bad at all against Arizona but this was one of the games Arizona had one of the several notable second half shut outs and scored 17 unanswered. I understand over the season he made bad decisions or bad reads whether to run to soon or choose to run when pass was there or too soon. Patrick Peterson said Russell Wilson was the most difficult running QB to defend because "he isn't looking to run". Since he said I often seen game highlights of throws running to the line of scrimmage. Bailing to run too early is easier for the defenders because of the susceptibility of expecting run & react to that or stay on the receiver. Kaepernick & RG3 I see as different QBs w/ different systems, experiences, so don't see them as similar outside of running ability. Nevada predominantly ran Pistol Option while Baylor was pass heavy spread system so Kaepernick has the "1 read" thing more ingrained and an area he'd probably have more he'll have to work on than RG3 developing better progressions.

That said runs and particularly outside-the-pocket passing he has pretty good numbers. Ability to turn 3 & 9 to 15 yard first down on a run. Pretty solid rushing numbers for a QB in '15. I think he averages around the highest this year and recent couple or so.

QBs recent years league wide have higher YPA numbers overall so his 7.1 is #22 but 7+ 2-1 TD ratio is generally what I prefer in my QBs but the sacks were very high and 49ers lead the league in dropped passes. This is what I mean with adversity and am interested in how he responds to the adversity. Rebounding to it which I think he is capable of and has more talent than most.

But if Arizona didn't have the opportunity to do something with Carson Palmer this year (adding depth to RB was key this off-season) I would take Kaepernick and feel good about the team's chances for seasons to come. I wouldn't mind RG3 at all if he hit the market but Arians tends to prefer guys that know his system like Drew Stanton (Palmer and Stanton praise the system and the opportunities it creates though I don't know exactly what the system does) which is why he signed Lindley because he learned the system somewhat in pre-season but still have a baffling decision to me. Rebuilding at the QB position is very difficult for a lot of teams -- with Arizona at-best they found an aging veteran with potentially a few good years left and growing through all the different rookies and first timers and horrible signings like Derek Anderson & Kevin Kolb (rookie 6th-round John Skelton had a more impressive season Kolb's first year but lost opportunities to Lindley (Whisenhunt made a impulsive decision to pull him for missing a wide open Fitzgerald winning on the road against Atlanta and suffered with Lindley until a 6-7 loss to the Jeys) & injures the following season.

Also several rising-prime QBs looking forward to see how they'll do such as Wilson, Newton, Stafford, Carr, Bortles, Bridgewater, etc. As far as rookies I have no clue how any of them we'll do.

Didn't intend to mention all the additional comments related to Cardinals, just excited and looking forward to this season. One other thing that puzzled me and the motivating reason to log in and reply is didn't know why the "tired" or who such as Kaepernick or RG3 that you were tired of -- I don't know any of the players personally or really hold anyone really in this profession to high standards -- I focus more on the unethical aspects of multinational banking, investing, oil & gas, defense, etc.

Also have no clue on anything about attitude and especially opinions on racist names which my best guess would be the Washington team name but I don't pay attention to football not until first season rolls under way outside of free agents & drafts. So I'm probably out of the loop as anything as far as that goes. Last thing I do recall was when Washington came to Arizona, Daniel Snyder had corrupt ex-President of Navajo Nation, Ben Shelly, in the skybox parading him wearing visibly a Redskins what wondering what the payment and agreement. More than the team name I thought bothered me more with the deliberateness and seeking a known corrupt outgoing politician to present that image in the skybox for the cameras to try to claim credibility for the team owner's argument. That particularly rubbed me the wrong way in addition with the behavior continue to maintain images or names that a number of people find offensive. Snyder's the person here that can change one way and so far have seen questionable, unethical, decisions & behavior from Snyder but so does the vast majority of pro league owners & the whole shakedown for sweetheart deals from cities, counties, states for stadium funds, rather than renovate existing structures they keep building bigger, more glamorous than the next, and more expensive. They don't have to do this but do it because they can which is where it lies to me.

Its great to be back here discussing football. I hope for more enjoyable discussions over the season.

on edit -- Appears madinmaryland sent the PMs. That 24 business hours post was literally the last post I made until this one.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Wow! That Was Quite A Post

Actually, it's been brewing for me. I didn't like that style of play, which is a big reason i don't care for college football. As i've seen other teams trying it, i have noticed that the defenses have pretty much figured it out. Even in his rookie year, his success was best on that style of offense.

Given his brittleness, and the fact that the style of play is likely to get a QB killed in the NFL, and his intractable sense of self, i don't see him making the progression to being a QB.

Last note: Bayless thinks RGIII is still the man, and he still thinks Tebow can play. So, that's pretty much enough for me, right there.

[JonLP24]

5. Tebow: I don't get how he can hold truly great athletes to a standard as not good enough

but yet with Tebow nothing but unconditional praise but Bayless would often not make much sense in who was dismissed unreasonable and who was elevated to MVP status for "Tebow time" when the team was in position due to great running game and defense with luck. His accuracy was terrible and I think his YPA was the lowest of everyone except for Blaine Gabbert.

I agree a lot of susceptibility to injury & especially if coaches are mismanaging the player's injuries that lead to more significant injuries. I think Kaepernick played very well because they were among the best at running at ball and could pass effectively with Vernon Davis, Boldin is an excellent receiver with Crabtree. Last season injuries occurred on the line, with receivers which they had a lack of options and the two tight end sets with Gore receiving lows in carries. In addition to linebackers. San Francisco was one of the hardest hit teams with injuries which the Cardinals did too & suspensions but it was so unusual they were able to rebound with a backup linebacker that only missed 1 defensive play all season but it was over when Stanton went down. I felt he was under-appreciated by the national media as they say there chances ended when Palmer went down but it was when Ellington did which the scout team RB started against KC and Ryan Lindley was behind center. Arizona potentially could have defeated Carolina with just an average QB. Red zone interception followed by an interception inside his own 20, worst QB I've seen receive so much playing time.

With Kaepernick there were a lot of challenges where the team just fell apart and seemed to do so with ownership, manager, coaching relations and RG3 is dealing with those. I can't say too much on RG3 but I feel Kaepernick has better chances of rebounding but at the same time there aren't many better QBs at his stage with years left in his career. The aging veterans thing only gets us maybe a few good years than start over but love Arians as coach. Too bad we barely missed out on the LeBeau hiring. RG3 I would probably need to see how he plays out this year to have an idea where he goes from here but agree 100% on college football. Some teams have better defenses that are able to defend against those but even then Cardinals have had strong defenses in the front (Campbell, Dockett, LBs) but the Kaepernicks and Wilsons were frustrating because they often escaped sure sacks if it was any other QB. Kaepernick has performed at levels he had against the top defenses.

7.53, 50 TDs, 21 INTs for a career aren't bad numbers at all at this point so I think he's in good shape. Washington from what I remember when Arizona played them they could defend everyone except for DeSean Jackson. One of the most explosive receivers I've ever seen due to the speed alone. So it wouldn't be like he wouldn't be without targets but unfortunate for him but teams that go through years finding a long-term starter happened to draft 2 potential ones the same draft. If Arizona was without options at QB I'd back a trade for him but I think are several teams I'd think he'd be a better replacement with long-term potential like Philadelphia or Chicago only because of Cutler who initially I saw as overrated but now he's seen pretty much for who he is as a QB but for future seasons. Hard to find those long-term starters.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. Wilson Seems A Slightly Different Case

I think he's a better pure passer than any of those young guys, except for Luck. Quick release, really accurate, and i think he's the fastest of the lot when he does have to take off and run.

Also, since their running game is so good, and the O-Line is solid, the DE hitting the QB and LB hitting the RB isn't as simple as it would be for a team with a less stout running game. The O-Linemen are pros too.

He also seems more affable than RGIII, which leads me to believe he has a better hold of the team. We're starting to hear a lot of noise about RGIII having no friends on the team, even from Ryan Clark who played there.

I just think he's an entitled twit who doesn't have the drive to be consistently excellent at the NFL level. Game came too easy for him for too long, and now when it requires extra effort, i don't know that he's making it.

BTW: I still think Cutler is grossly over-criticized, and not just because i'm a Bears fan.

[JonLP24]

8. He definitely is Wilson

The thing a QB generally has to have the down field numbers for success or be a long-term starter. If you simply first compared two teams yards per pass attempt number than their defense yards per pass attempt number but slightly weight it less you would have a fairly accurate prediction system. The numbers hold true for a continued period of time.

Career 7.95 passer, 72 TDs, 26 INTs. I would hear here or there that it is all the running game or defense making him look good but seeing him play and the numbers alone plus his teammates don't take anything away from him that he is done or accomplished as far as the team. Definitely legitimate.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Yep

And all we heard when he came out of Wisconsin was he was too short. Ooops!

[trumad]

10. Possibly the longest post in this groups history.

And a good one at that.

[joeybee12]

7. Actually, he sort of made a stand about the racist name of his team...

He had tweeted something about people should stop trying to be politically correct...what a d-bag

That said, he would never live up to the hype, even if he was that good, which he isn't. The Washington Red-acted Football Team needs to cut him loose and the argument whether he sucks now because of his play or because of his sh*tty team can finally be put to rest. He's a poser, IMHO.

[JonLP24]

9. I didn't know that part or anything at all on what any athlete has done or said recently

but based on earlier I thought it was a 'no opinion' situation which I saw either way the decision to change name rests with Snyder who seems highly unlikely and appears to have bigger problems than the name of what his sports organization good enough to make the NFL is pretty damn good. I was only commenting on the 'done' aspect, still has the opportunity to perceive and if he either does or doesn't and don't know him at all personally so what is a 'poser' or are you saying he is a posing as a QB? Didn't understand context or that so just asking.

But the comment there that if he made is different than that of what I was addressing with the Snyder thing.

[ProfessorGAC]

12. My Bad, Joey!

Then he's a bigger punk than i thought he was. Here is was only complaining he hadn't said anything, and then he goes and says something which makes it worse.

Thanks

[joeybee12]

14. I have no use for him...he's Tebow without the genuflecting...

He would always tweet defenses of Griner, saying she was targeted and had to hit back...then she came out and he went silent...the d-bag.

[trumad]

11. I think he deserves on more shot with another team.

Then again... He is so injury prone that it may never happen.