Racism: i find that how a lot of white people think of racism, whereas a lot of POC and academics

[La Lioness Priyanka]

think of racism tends to be quite different.

For instance, ignoring the demands of most black people and their elected representatives to me is a form of racism. If the Black Caucus states that some XYZ policy will harm black people, and we go ahead with this there is inherent racism in this. It is ignoring the voice of a minority that has historically been oppressed.

It seems to be, that most white Americans still think of racism as an overt forms of intentional racism. Whereas prejudice these days is far more subtle and happens in some very insidious ways.

Anyway, I am really not sure why exactly this has been on my mind recently, but it has. The same is true for sexism, but I am going to post about that in GD one of these days when i have more time/energy.

PS: this was posted in the AA group for a reason, for those of you who rush in here to tell me how this post is racist, please note my use of the words ' some' and 'a lot' not 'every'.

[gollygee]

1. OK so

I went to anti-racism training for an organization with which I volunteer, and the people who ran the training said that white people generally define racism as mean people who do mean things where race is involved in some way, where people of color define racism as systems and structures that promote white supremacy, and then also people's actions which support it.

I think most white people define racism in whatever way most benefits white people, and that is in a way that absolves them of any part of it. Saying it's just mean people means it's someone else and they don't have to think about it. But when you recognize it as systems and structures that we're all a part of, then we have to look at ourselves and our own lives to see how those systems and structures work differently for us because of our race, and what part we might take in those systems and structures to maintain them as they are.

White people often see blame when they think of racism because they think it's about mean people who do mean things - so if you say they're a part of it they think you're saying they're mean people. Calling a white person "racist" is about the biggest insult there is, and again I think that's intentional so that we can't talk about it.

And then that leads to white people thinking people are saying they should feel guilty. If someone says you're a mean person, of course you should feel guilty. And we can say as many times as we want that we're talking about responsibility because we are part of these systems and structures, not guilt because we're bad people, but it seems to be ignored or not heard or something.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. brilliant post.

[bettyellen]

3. seen all of that hundreds of times here.

[ismnotwasm]

4. Puts me in mind of that that very destructive drinker

Who may constantly sip Glenfiddich to the point of liver failure but doesn't think they are an alcoholic because they drink they aren't on the streets drinking out wine that has never seen a grape out of a brown paper bag.

Same kind of toxic denial.

[caraher]

5. White fragility

The first rule of racial discourse seems to be, "Do not make white people feel the least little bit uncomfortable." I think it's hard for many white people to understand that nobody particularly cares about sorting the mean people from the not-mean people - they just want to live their lives without suffering the effects of racism (and other "isms&quot . Or... maybe it's not so hard, so much as that they've bought into a bad framework and can't see past it. Which is what the trainers said, basically. And the more people buy into the definition based on individuals the harder it is to see and root out the institutional problems.

Just the fact that the OP had to be filled with disclaimers shows how strong this unwritten rule is.

[southmost]

10. exactly!

[forjusticethunders]

12. Unfortunately we have to play by that rule, frustrating as it is.

It's in many ways a subtle form of brainwashing that, if challenged too overtly, produces a conditioned response that shuts down the conversation in a wave of emotion. (and i do think it's intentional at least in part).

You really have to work around that racial anxiety and hammer on concrete examples of institutionalized racism. In general, most people aren't trained to think in systems to begin with, certainly not beyond a vague concept.

It doesn't help that when some POC making a prejudiced statement or a statement that can be construed as such towards whites gets blown up on social media, the whole "reverse racism" line gets trotted out and the conversation is over because white people see it as "you tell us not to say mean/nasty things about you but you get to say shit about us" and it's impossible to break out of that framework.

I straight up concede the "racism" point nowadays because to me it's not worth triggering that anxiety versus slowly getting people to understand the existence of systemic racism that occurs seperate from individual racism.

The evil genius of this system is that it doesn't require a SINGLE white person to hate black people or want to exploit black people - all it requires is for them to not love black people enough to accept the cost of dismantling the structures built by their ancestors who did hate black people and want to exploit black people.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. the disclaimers are largely to mock those who jump on these threads

claiming not all white people.

i really detest those folks.

[brer cat]

18. You are spot on, caraher,

about white fragility. I would only add this: if your (generic "you" white person) first response to discussions of racism is defensive, you are part of the problem.

[MrScorpio]

20. Damn Skippy nt

[southmost]

9. great post

wish i could k&r

[blackspade]

14. +1000

Well said.

[brer cat]

19. Thank you for sharing this, gollygee.

[MrScorpio]

21. Perfect explanation nt

[forjusticethunders]

22. It's bigger than that, dunno if whites implicitly get it.

Acknowledging the true depth of racism and white privilege means acknowledging that their entire identity, their entire civilization, their entire sense of "American identity" is built on a pyramid of skulls. That's a lot to take in for any one person. It's pretty much the real world equivalent of taking the red pill in the Matrix. They have to see the whippings, the chains, the burnings, the lynchings, the toil, the agony, the rape, the dehumanization, and realize that the life they live was built by that charnelhouse, that pit of evil. Honestly, the only time a people has EVER come to terms anything approaching this kind of evil was at gunpoint, in the ruins of bombed out cities, backed up by billions on reeducation. It runs a lot deeper in America.

[Basement Beat]

23. Great Post (n/t)

[EffieBlack]

24. ˆˆˆThis to the nth degree

Beautifully said!

[kwassa]

6. Many whites can only see racism that is overt, not built in.

To them, racism must be an action by individuals, not a societal structure involving institutions and norms.

Gollygee is right about racism being something a mean person actively does, not something that seems a normal part of life. Normal is what ever we grew up with; that doesn't make it right, or even normal.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. absolutely. they can see overt and intentional personal prejudice but not systemic racism

and they cannot see their actions as racist when they support systemic racism

*some white people.

[MrScorpio]

7. That's exactly correct

The elements of privilege and power are all pretty much intertwined... Connected. It's best to see these in terms of systems, who control and benefit from them and those who aren't.

Here's something that I wrote on this subject earlier:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118752953

[Coolest Ranger]

11. This is one of

the man reasons why I been frustrated with DU for a while now. Every time one of us brings up race, we're alert stalked by those who get uncomfortable. I made the foolish mistake of untrashing general discussion and quickly trashed it again. I just can't deal with subtle racism. Tired of it.

[blackspade]

13. We live in a world of white supremacy....

which rides the beast of capitalism around the globe.

[JustAnotherGen]

15. Excellent post LLP

[YoungDemCA]

25. White people feel uncomfortable whenever the real, lived experiences of black people are brought up

As well as those of other PoC.

Perhaps that discomfort is rooted in white people's realization that maybe - just maybe - they (we) are complicit in maintaining our white supremacist society? Even through our silence - no, especially through our silence. I maintain that white silence can do more for maintaining white supremacy than outright violence against PoC.

Black people and other people of color are literally experiencing violence (of all kinds) every day, and white people - including white liberals - are worried about how uncomfortable discussions of racism make them feel. What the fuck kind of priorities are those?