Observation of one truth about Black voters...

[FrenchieCat]

"Why have these voters been so pro-Clinton? One reason I haven’t seen laid out, but which I suspect is important, is that they are more sensitized than most whites to how the disinformation machine works, to how fake scandals get promoted and become part of what “everyone knows.” Not least, they’ve seen the torrent of lies directed at our first African-American president, and have a sense that not everything you hear should be believed."- Paul Krugman
http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/krugman/2016/04/04/shadows-of-smears-past/?smid=tw-nytimeskrugman&smtyp=cur&_r=1&referer=http://m.facebook.com


Meanwhile, elsewhere....Actor and Sanders surrogate Tim Robbins called anyone voting for Hillary Clinton "Sheeps" today on television!

[FrenchieCat]

2. You're kidding, right?

[FrenchieCat]

4. Well, actually you are...

Although you may not know it!

[FrenchieCat]

11. I personably know Black folks who are well informed

About Bernie Sanders, and chose to vote for Hillary Clinton, because they believe that Bernie Sanders is making promises that he cannot keep a la 40 acres and a mule! Others remember when Sanders wanted to primary Pres Obama , and yet others don't like his surrogates; i.e., Cornel West...while others simply know Hillary Clinton and believe she's best qualified when the credentials of Sanders and Clinton are compared....

I most likely know as many Black folks as you do....at the very least! So there goes your testimonial theory!!!

[FrenchieCat]

19. It negates your initial stereotype & comment that

That MOST Black folks vote for Hillary cause of name recognition without knowing Bernie Sanders...

As your preface should have been, the Black people that I know...

Cause you don't know most Black folks...you just think you do....

[FrenchieCat]

34. Nope....

There are many truths, and this may be ione of the many...
It's not that complicated!

In turn, You chose to comment that the real truth is name recognition for the majority of Black voters. That's what you said...not me!

So evidently, you don't know exactly as much as you think you do....

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. I wonder if these people hear themselves? ...

"I know/met some Black people, on some random street that I happen to be on, that didn't know of Bernie; but, supported HRC because they recognize her name (i.e., as a result of her (and her husband's) decades of engagement with the Black community) ... so, that means ... well ... something ..." But the equal evidence of the opposite claim means nothing, because ... well ... something. (but I suspect, because it conflicts with his/her random, personal and anonymous experience).

It takes a special, solid platinum, pair to come into the/a African-American Group on a political message board (i.e., populated with Black folks that ARE politically engaged, AND politically informed, to and spout that REALLY, REALLY SAD crap.

[pnwmom]

23. How come, if name recognition is the issue, are white Southern Democrats so much more likely

to vote for Bernie than African American voters?

Why is it, in your opinion, that AA voters are so ignorant compared to white voters?

[pnwmom]

30. I am well aware what group this is and it is permissible to ask questions like I asked.

Your comment leaves you open to questions like this, as FrenchieCat and others have noted.

You can't logically explain why black people in the South are extra-susceptible to the urge to vote for Hillary without talking about why white people are not. If it's because of black people's ignorance -- that they know Hillary's name -- then why are the white people less ignorant?

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. Okay ... Please explain how/why Black folks are so ignorant of ...

a 25+ year Congressional veteran and Civil Rights warrior?

[NOLALady]

37. Well,

that is not my experience in New Orleans, among my family, friends and neighbors. They are well aware of both candidates. We engage in serious discussions about both candidates during our weekly family visits.

[brush]

52. Does your research teach you that that is exactly why campaigns seek "name recognition"?

Last edited Tue Apr 5, 2016, 11:01 AM - Edit history (1)

Of course campaigns do that, they run ads, they send people like you out to canvass to make people aware of who their candidate is, of his/her virtues and platform — to get votes.

All politicians depend on that. That's nothing new.

Sanders knows that, which is why he joined the Democratic Party 8 months ago. He wanted in on the national TV debates and the national coverage that would lead to wider "name recognition". It was too late though.

He should have joined the party long ago, worked to build relationships in the party, perhaps earn superdelegates from that, become a national figure in the party like his opponent, be known about in the diversified demographic that is the Dem party, and not just the majority white part of it.

If he had done this years ago he would probably have won some of the southern primaries (where Clinton picked up her big lead) because black voters would have known who he was, that he had Marched with MLK, what he was all about, and he would probably be leading the race right now.

Timing is everything though, and his was a little too late.

[Kind of Blue]

54. +1000!

And let's include black people, like everybody I know in the D.C./Maryland/Virginia area who've known him for over 25 years and will not vote for him.

[steve2470]

5. really really poor post

That's what I get from your post. Whoa.

(on edit: reeks of SOMETHING)

on edit before the delete:

[FrenchieCat]

6. Poster's in agreement with Tim Robbins...

Some of These folks truly believe that we are ignorant and uninformed en masse!

Now Aren't they special?

[steve2470]

10. SMDH nt

[steve2470]

9. I would say exactly what I think....

but knowing how fucked up DU has been, I would be the one to get a hide. You really stepped in it with that post.

[FrenchieCat]

14. The title of the Op is my own....

And not the title of the article...
So come again?

[FrenchieCat]

21. So where did you get that either myself or

The other poster want it to be the only truth...as you stated?

[FrenchieCat]

12. You can say what you want....

As it reflects your thinking much more than it does that of most Black folks!

[Coolest Ranger]

15. This is the African American group

We do not need people like you telling us what to feel or how to think kindly please leave

[FrenchieCat]

20. No... It's a Forum for Black folks who don't

Negatively stereotype Black folks like White folks routinely do!

If you're Black but talk as dismissively about Black People as some White people do, this Forum may not be a good fit for you!

[FrenchieCat]

35. You have stopped making sense...

But you did succeed in trashing this thread!

Congrats to you and your personal theory that Most Blacks vote Clinton only due to name recognition cause you know most of them, and this is what most of them told you!

[Number23]

40. They STOPPED making sense?? When the hell did they ever start????

[liberal N proud]

51. Best post of the thread award ^^^^

[Starry Messenger]

29. There aren't any mods, and hosts don't have the ability to delete posts.

You could self-delete. I am a host in here, warning you that you are being disruptive. Thanks. Take it to GDP or the Sanders group.

[FrenchieCat]

36. I did not attack you,

you responded to my op, and I responded to you...isn't that how it normally goes?

[Number23]

41. You were disruptive and rude from Post 1. And your comment that black people are voting for Clinton

solely, to use your own emphasis, because of name recognition is something else. Entirely.

And ain't none of what that "something else" is is good.

[JustAnotherGen]

43. I'm a Group Host and I am asking you

Politely to leave this thread.

Let me stop you at the next abrasive comment - I am at this time planning to write in O'Malley in the Primary in June.

Also - don't dictate to regular posters what questions they are allowed to ask - as you did to pnwmom in another reply.

Trash the thread, trash the group - I don't care.

[1StrongBlackMan]

57. As a Group Host, I invite you to leave the post up ...

It serves as a poignant reminder of how little our "allies" think of us.

[onpatrol98]

38. Hmm...let's follow your logic

I wonder why black folk would know Clinton and not Bernie Sanders. I can only think of one really good reason. Perhaps he was less active in civil rights activities after the 60s.

Now, that I think about it. I'm not sure I mind your assessment. If black folk voted for Clinton because they recognized her name...and didn't have a clue as to who this guy was, who had been in Washington over 30 years and somehow had not had enough of an impact to be known by the most consistent voting block for democrats over the last 40 years...

Yeah, okay...maybe there's something to this whole name recognition thing. People can usually recognize the names of their friends.

I've read several articles that suggest he's ill tempered and treats his staff poorly. Maybe, that's why some people didn't vote for him. People choose not to vote for candidates for any number of reasons.

Some people voted for him. Some didn't. Some voted for Clinton. Some didn't.

I can't wait for the primary season to end.

[1StrongBlackMan]

58. In the loose endorsement words of the Amsterdam News ...

(one of America's oldest Black owned and operated Newspapers) ... "Perhaps we missed all the Sanders led protests of voter suppression and marches for Civil Rights in Vermont."

[pnwmom]

61. LOL

Perhaps we did!

[Cha]

59. You show nothing but disrespect to the Op with your "blah blah blah".. it says everything about

you and nothing about your target.

[leftofcool]

60. Holy shit!

[BlueMTexpat]

22. Bah bah to you, Tim Robbins

and also to Poster #1!

This particular "sheeple" is very proud to be a Hillary voter, to agree with Paul Krugman, and proud to have attracted the scorn of such True Believers.

Thanks for the link, Frenchie!

[steve2470]

26. agree about both! nt

[FrenchieCat]

28. Just reiterates that keen six sense

Called refusal of being bamboozled by the media and others!

Folks ain't having it...cause we ain't got it like that!

[steve2470]

25. Tim Robbins is dead wrong and he sucks

Tone deaf, he is.

[steve2470]

32. article

While Robbins said that voters “who feel Bernie in their hearts but are supporting Hillary with their pragmatic brains” are “not bad people,” he added, “and if we were sheep, if we had gotten in line, there’d be no problem now.”

He also said that winning South Carolina “about as significant as winning Guam.”

Criticizing the media that had hailed Clinton as the presumptive candidate after her South Carolina victory, Robbins offered, “Who’s fooling who? Winning South Carolina in a Democratic primary is about as significant as winning Guam. No Democrat is going to win in South Carolina in the general election.

That was enough to enrage Clinton supporters, who tore into the actor on social media.

http://www.thewrap.com/tim-robbins-ripped-to-shreds-by-hillary-clinton-supporters-over-his-sanders-speech-video/

[JI7]

39. this is actually true from the 90s also, Black people were more likely to see than most

the bs of a lot of the right wing attacks on the Clintons. a lot of it had to do with his support among african americans so that could be part of it.

but yes this would probably go back even before then when you talk about the black experience in the US. same goes for hispanics and others.

[Number23]

42. "what an ugly way to end a campaign that was supposed to be positive and idealistic."

Ain't that the truth.

And I gotta tell you, the fact that so much of the coverage of Sanders' campaign refers to it in the past tense is definitely... something.

[JustAnotherGen]

44. We see through a media lie

Something perhaps many liberals/progressives who are NOT black need to understand -

All of our lives our media has parroted the lies told about us by Republicans. In some cases - they are lies they have generated on their own.

When you are the subject of the lie time and again, over and over - It is easier to see big lies when they happen. Certainly we have better reasons to not trust the media than those trying to get us believe new lies about Hillary Clinton.

They have done nothing but tell us lies about her for 25 years. On that note - in a GE they won't do anything but tell lies about Senator Sanders.

In the meantime they tell lies like Trump Is Legitimate. The reality is the lies they are supporting and telling for the Right in this election are dangerous - they put us in danger.

[Coolest Ranger]

45. Thank you all for

getting rid of that crazy poster. I get so tired of people like him telling us that we can't think for ourselves or that we have no right to vote for who we want to vote for. Ugh

[JustAnotherGen]

47. Do me a favor

Contact MIRT -

I didn't remove hm - just asked him to leave.

And you weren't the only one who gave me a heads up.

Hopefully he will trash the forum and never come in here verbal/written guns blazing to inflict pain on people again. That was tasteless, absurd and completely uncalled for.

[Coolest Ranger]

48. Does MIRT

have a group or something? I would be more than happy to do so. I just need to know who to contact

[JustAnotherGen]

49. Announcements - I think bobbiejo is on this term again

In the announcements page / group - Admin lists most recent additions to the team. He needs to be looked at.

[Coolest Ranger]

50. I'm messing OkayNancy

right now as we speak

[Uponthegears]

46. May I suggest an alternative?

I am as unwilling to rely upon Paul Krugman's assessment of why "these voters" (should we be thankful he didn't go full Ross Perot on us?) are "so pro-Clinton" as I am Tim Robbins' answer to the same question. The former strikes me as obsequious and pandering, the latter as shaming and patronizing.

To the extent that I want to hear any white person open their mouth at all on the subject, my preference would be to hear them say, "These voters" are individuals who cast their votes based upon the realities of the world to which each of them were exposed growing up and the realities of the world each of them face today" and then leave the room.

I am just so f'n tired of this subject.

[ismnotwasm]

53. That is an interesting POV

Of all the "Why" arguments, the ones suggesting the practicality and well, call it a political bullshit meter, make more sense to me than, say, "name recognition".

Sanders has incredible name recognition right now, gets a lot of media attention and is generally seen a a new voice and a fresh start by his supporters. The tired and too often repeated meme that black people are not political enough to "know" Sanders should have been laid to rest some time ago. Anecdotally, anyone I talk to, of a variety of races and cultures (I work in a area and a field that is diverse) has heard of Sanders. FWIW, Many think he's a good guy. No few think Hillary is the only one actually "qualified".

[JustAnotherGen]

62. Kicking it up for our NEW Group members

They need to get right with themselves.

[UMTerp01]

63. This is a really good point

I think for a lot of Black voters they also see in Hillary Clinton someone who has had the President's back for 8 years. Someone who, after a bitter campaign in 2008 got most of her supporters to come over to him. She has also explicitly said she will continue the Obama legacy, whereas Sanders has pretty much said there should be buyer's remorse with Obama.

But to the OP's point. I think thats a very good point about not buying the bullshit about the vitriol spit about Hillary Clinton. Yes I'm well aware of all the scandals that have followed the Clinton's but oddly none of them have ever stuck. Its very much silly season now. Sanders supporters are just mad because the most reliable block of Democratic voters are going to keep their guy from getting the nomination.