****African-American Group**** need to get something off my chest

[steve2470]

This has been bothering me for a while. I get the whole partisan thing. I get the whole "I love my candidate and I don't love yours" thing. However.... the vitriol and hatred I've seen towards Secretary Clinton ON THIS WEBSITE really appalls me. I didn't vote for her in the Florida primaries, but good god almighty, from reading some of the vile hatred towards her, you'd think she was worse than Donald Trump and Ted Cruz and Mussolini all rolled up into one human being!

The comments I've seen towards her in this forum have been OK. I'm not talking about you, honestly. I'm talking about GDP and GD.

I really don't think Senator Sanders is going to be the Dem nominee. I am convinced Secretary Clinton will be the nominee. All Democrats and independents now need to unite behind her to win the GE, and then work with her to move this country to the left.

Yes yes, vote your conscience in your primary, but then let's get real. Senator Sanders is NOT going to win. He's too far behind.

POSTED IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN GROUP. Go read the SOP, please. If I posted this in GDP, I'd get called every name but my own, so I'm not going to waste my time getting abused.

I feel better. Thank you kindly for reading, my friends!

[Digital Puppy]

1. Queue the "But both sides do it!!" crowd in 3...2...1....

I think I agree with you 150% Steve!

I'm actually waiting for who comes out of the primaries to "pledge my allegiance" to either candidate. Watching what is unfolding on DU is pretty pathetic though.

[steve2470]

3. I respect your stance totally

I'm definitely not saying that Sanders supporters have been perfect on DU. Of course, there have been reasonable comments by both sides. Some of the "Sanders supporters", I'm convinced, have been stealth Republicans and stealth conservatives. Such utter hatred, wow.

[redruddyred]

20. there are some fucken extreme people out there as i am learning

~personally~ i'm not sure sec clinton is all that bad and i think considering how powerful she is could be a lot worse. to clarify: if she wanted to be a dbag, she would.

i think the issue some ppl hold with her is that she represents a more insidious kind of "bad". at least it's obvious what an ahole someone like trump or cruz is. but hillary is sneaky. so i think that explains some of the hate.

i've heard from anarcho-socialists the opinion that "at least the trump couldn't mess things up more and may even do some good" while clinton is "killing us softly". I realize that's somewhat contradictory.

[steve2470]

21. sigh

I really wish you had not made this post here. All I'm going to say.

Good day.

[redruddyred]

23. all my subtle and carefully neutralized arguments for nothing

[serbbral]

65. Thank you so much for this thread!

I do not know if you saw it, but I not too long ago posted a thread that really 'ruffled' some Sanders' supporters and it was eventually locked. Now, I will admit that my wording was not the best but I did not mean to be offensive, it was labeled to Bernie Sanders fans, instead of supporters. I just was not thinking, but I eventually changed it to 'supporters.' Well, in a nutshell, the gist of my thread was to state how detrimental it would be for those who voted for Bernie to sit at home, if he is not the nominee. I am with you, I think Clinton is too far ahead and is going to be the Democratic nominee. I too voted for Bernie Sanders. Since the board is DEMOCRATIC Underground, I just assumed that most were Democrats who did not want a Trump Presidency. Well, you would have thought I'd created murder or something. I just think that we would be giving the Presidency to Trump if many dems stayed at home. I am not a big fan of Hillary Clinton, either, but I do think her presidency would be a hell of a lot better than Trump's.

[steve2470]

68. you're welcome, and I agree with you! nt

[wryter2000]

2. Do what I did

Trash the GD forum and the Sanders group. Now that Skinner's taken GD and the candidate groups off the greatest and home page, DU looks like it used to.

When she's formally the candidate, the vitriol will no longer be allowed.

[steve2470]

4. very true! nt

[redruddyred]

22. "no longer allowed"

yikes! do we have to go to "socialist underground" now?

[Chitown Kev]

5. Yeah...i don't disagree with some of the substansive criticisms (heck, I've had some of my own)

but the anti-Clinton vitriol is over-the-top.

And all of that vitriol did nothing to influence my vote...in fact, it probably DID push me away from Sanders a little bit.

[steve2470]

6. it's made me MORE sympathetic to Secretary Clinton, not less

Some of the "Sanders supporters" need to get a grip. Not even FDR was the perfect progressive, far from it, as we all know. I think Secretary Clinton is a good person and will be an excellent President.

[wildeyed]

38. I play for Team Hillary

and I don't mind substantive criticisms either, and even join in occasionally. I don't even mind when others choose a different candidate. But the vitriol here about her, the sanctimonious lectures about the moral superiority of their candidate and the great volumes of intellectually dishonest debate tactics (HA Goodman, where you been!) pushed me away from Sanders fast, and much farther into Clinton's camp than I might have gone before.

There is that delicate window where a voter is deciding.... When I was at the point, a horrible OP about how any True Progressive™ would be for Bernie, and if you were not, then you were off the island. And then quick on its heels, an MLK thread where Sanders supporters insulted Bravenak and called her "racially divisive" for posting a link to MLK's Letter from a Birmingham Jail.... At that point I realized that if this was the quality of support he attracts, his campaign was not for me.

I believe that I would have come to support Clinton, regardless. But def would not have contributed as much money an time without the push from the more vicious Sanders supporters here and on other social networks (blocked SO MANY on Twitter and even FB!).

I supported Obama early, but I ALSO liked Clinton (except that bit at the end). Obama understood this and did not alienate potential voters by attacking Clinton, and as a result, won my vote. Sanders and many of his peeps never seemed to understand how that dynamic works.

[Bubzer]

49. That's a stance I respect. Consider the subtantive criticisms... reject vitriol.

If we had a lot more of that all around, maybe DU would be a better place.

[giftedgirl77]

55. That's kind of where I am. I don't agree with HRCs foreign policy

at all. But the "grassroot" campaign of the Sanders campaign us doing his no favors. The constant HRC is the Antichrist posts are just ridiculous, however, they are the same group that have been yelling about Obama cutting Social Security, authorizing the Keystone Pipeline & going to war with everyone for as long as he's been in office. So by now we should expect the nuttiness that keeps getting spewed.

[Chitown Kev]

66. People complain that I don't criticize Hillary enough

I have criticized Hillary but usually the substansive criticisms are covered adequately by someone else and the Hillary vitriol on top of that usually makes such criticisms pointless.

So I usually default to criticisms of St. Bernie...since no politician is a saint.

[giftedgirl77]

67. I critize HRC all day on foreign policy, but the BS fan boy shit

gets on my damn nerves & that's usually what gets my attention. My #1 issue is social justice & I don't think either one would do enough for me to be happy & other than not sliding backwards 50+ yes I don't for see either doing much for us.

[brer cat]

7. The Hillary hate is hard for me to understand.

Neither of the candidates is perfect, and we should be able to discuss them openly and honestly, but the Hillary hate shuts most of that down. Moreover, the strong feelings and harsh words are going to make it very difficult for us to come together for the GE.

But beyond the candidates, there is a level of spitefulness and meanness from some people here that is way over the top. I can't remember ever seeing anything like it. It has been brutal for the AA members here, as well as many innocent people who happen to speak of Bernie without the required genuflection. I just can't see letting ones support for one candidate translate into hatefulness against supporters of another candidate.

You and many others who support Bernie have been reasonable in discussions, and I know that is appreciated, especially in this group where issues take precedence over candidates.

[steve2470]

8. thank you

People need to learn or remember that "Honey gets more flies than vinegar", to use a corny but true old expression. That's one of my guiding principles in life and on DU. I certainly fail at times but I'm trying anyway.

[BlueMTexpat]

28. +1! eom

[KeepItReal]

9. When the time comes, I'll stop supporting Sen. Sanders.

I'm in California and we don't vote until JUNE 7. Thanks, DNC.

There are still over half the states that still have yet to cast votes in the Democratic primary. Our votes matter.

Let the democratic process work and determine the winner.

[tammywammy]

16. Just a FYI, the California legislature determines the primary date

Not the DNC.

See: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201120120AB80

[1StrongBlackMan]

60. I've seen so many comments like that ...

it gets corrected, as you have; but, it re-appears in the very next post. It's almost as if people don't care that they don't know what they are talking about.

[blackspade]

10. I can't say I agree with your assessment of the race as it stands...

Nor do I believe that we can "work with her to move this country to the left."

I have little hope that if she is the nominee that she will move to the left or adopt populist policies in regards to social inequity, justice reform, or economic reforms. Her stance on foreign involvement is well documented and I fear that my older children will be sucked into yet another conflict just when their lives are getting started.
Her stance on climate change is terrible and on that issue alone, causes me great consternation about the future.

That said, unity will come after the nomination, whoever ends up on top. If we have to endure another four years of corporate dominance of our political system, that will have to be the cross we all bare to avoid a racist dictator wannabe.

[chwaliszewski]

15. ^^^THIS^^^

Completely agree. If I spew any hatred or vitriol in HRC's direction it's due to the lack of respect that Bernie is getting from the MSM, the DNC (he's not a REAL democrat), and the Hillary campaign itself. If I appear repelled by Hillary, it's because of her policies and condescension, not because of her followers.

[noiretextatique]

57. +1000

Let'a not pretend. we know where Clinton stands. that's why I support Sanders. And, both sides do it..just look in the HRC group for examples.

[Warpy]

11. I've largely solved the problem

by trashing GDP and both candidate forums. O'Malley, to his credit (or lack of support), failed to generate any cult of personality so I still see those posts once in a while since sheer nastiness doesn't show up there. Garbage is starting to show up Video and Good Reads since it will be alerted on and hidden in GD and that stinks. A pox on all personality cultists.

I was sick of this crap months ago. I hate general elections because of it.

I won't insult anyone for who they support. I can only tell folks who I support in the primary and why. I'd vote for a root canal without anesthesia before I'd vote for a Republican.

[Chitown Kev]

25. +10

[wildeyed]

51. "I'd vote for a root canal without anesthesia before I'd vote for a Republican."

Thread winner! I will steal that for later.

[steve2470]

54. love the root canal reference, amen! lol nt

[unapatriciated]

61. can't agree more

I see no reason to insult someone that has a different view than mine. I have in the past tried to discuss post that are out and out lies, but no longer see the point in doing that. We all seem to be talking past each other. I work with someone who supports trump, I don't understand why. I would not insult her. I instead chose not to discuss politics. I'm not going to change her mind and she won't change mine.

[MisterP]

12. AAG, not HCG

[Bubzer]

13. Secretary Clinton has earned much of the negative reactions she's received. EOM

[Cha]

26. No, she hasn't.

[Bubzer]

30. She absolutely has. And the majority of americans Agree with me.

That's why her untrustworthiness poll numbers are where they are. Bye.

[Cha]

31. No she hasn't.

[Bubzer]

35. Why? Because you said so?

[betsuni]

42. Why not? Because you say so?

[Bubzer]

47. No. Because the majority of Americans say so.

You must have missed that tidbit while you were busily scrutinizing my posts for misspelled words!

[betsuni]

50. We've got to stop meeting like this. People will say we're in love.

[Bubzer]

53. Right! No doubt! Well, you could always add me to your ignore list. That'd stop the meeting up.

It would also eliminate this seeming non-conversation we're not-quite having.

[betsuni]

58. Darling! How can you treat me this way after all we've been through?

We can work it out, you'll see! Ah, my sleeves are wet with tears...

[Bubzer]

59. *Snort*

Ya know... if it weren't for being for different candidates, and having differing perspectives, I'd probably enjoy having a conversation with you. Alas. Tissue?

[Hekate]

14. It's beyond the bounds of sanity. I finally trashed GDP.

Sadly, unless a whole bunch of people actually get PPR'd, they'll just simmer down until after the election, and then start all over again. Because of course to some people HRC will be the worst president ever.

[KJG52]

17. Get a Grip...

This is politics in America, passionate, hard, sometimes dirty, but always passionate, if you don't have intensity of feeling about your candidate, then working for them for free, phone banking, door knocking, working events and speaking up about that candidate will not be able to be maintained... If you think HRC is great and the candidate you wish to support, do it! But don't try to stop those who don't think she merits their support from supporting their candidate in the middle of a race, to whatever level of emotional intensity they exhibit, because politics should be driven by intense commitment or it's simply a cynical game... I care greatly that Bernie Sanders becomes the next President of the United States, and until he is mathematically eliminated in the pledged delegate count, I will not stop advocating and working hard for him.

[steve2470]

18. I honor passion of conviction

I don't honor vile hatred against a woman who has been with the Democratic Party for over 40 years and who is left of center to everyone except many on DU.

We should agree to disagree. Good day, sir or madam.

[Bubzer]

33. She has received significant deference since she became first lady.

For a fraction of the things she's done, any other civil servant would have been fired many times over.

[steve2470]

36. you folks are really tone-deaf.... proof of my OP comes trotting in here and craps on the AA carpet

I'm not going to waste my time on this nonsense. Good day.

[Bubzer]

37. You would indemnify HRC, I understand. I would not. Anyone else would have been fired long ago.

As I told Cha, your concurrence is not necessary for it to remain true.
Have a great day!

[betsuni]

43. Saying something doesn't make it true.

Have a great day!

[Bubzer]

44. You're absolutely right! Thank you for agreeing with me.

You have a great day too!

[betsuni]

45. I know how much it means to you to have imaginary internet friends!

It's "concurrence" not "concurance."

[Bubzer]

46. Hey! You found somthing wrong with my post! Feel better?

AND you managed to slip in an ad-hominem! How clever of you! You must be so proud!

[betsuni]

48. Finding things wrong with your posts is easy!

[Bubzer]

52. Oh, sure! It's easy to point and say "your wrong".

Substance, however, seems to be hard for HRC supporters. Equally difficult seems to be the ability to engagement in substantive conversation... and instead, there's only the occasional and paltry: hey, you misspelled sumthin.

[betsuni]

56. Engagement? Are you proposing?

But we hardly know each other! I'll have to think it over. (And it's "you're.&quot

[Bubzer]

64. Believe or not, the misspelling was intentional there.

[JimDandy]

19. Agree. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

62. How many people of DU do you really think aredoing any of that ...

i.e., phone banking, door knocking, working events?

I would wager fewer than 100 ... and those that are doing any of that, are not the ones stirring the pot.

[betsuni]

24. My favorite recent ridiculous OP title:

"The Clinton Campaign is like a giant vampire squid sucking the life out of everything it touches."

Dried squid is delicious!

[wildeyed]

40. Cool!

I collect the really over-the-top, funny posts and missed that one. Prolly on ignore.... Is there a link?

[betsuni]

41. When I looked for it, it was gone.

But posted again with a different title, "A Humongous Vampire Octopus Sucking the Life Out of Everything It Touches." Guess the other one was hidden.
http://democraticunderground.com/12511532616

Octopus is delicious, too! Takoyaki:

[Cha]

27. Mahalo for this, Steve.. I really appreciate it as a Hill fan and you being who you are..

They come in here to say she's earned it.. but that's hogwash.

All the rwinger sources they use.. it's like they believe their own crap.

[steve2470]

29. My pleasure Cha, I hope you and your family are well :) nt

[Bubzer]

34. Your concurrence isn't necessary for it to be true cha. But feel free to think otherwise.

Last edited Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:59 AM - Edit history (1)

[Kind of Blue]

32. As for me, their over the top vitriol

pushed me to seriously give HRC another look. I had to. It seems to me when people get that vicious and hateful, I've got to understand why. Their reasons just don't appeal to my interest and had the opposite affect with the Sanders lust. I think I should thank them though

[Cha]

39. "the vitriol and hatred I've seen towards Secretary Clinton ON THIS WEBSITE really appalls me."

Exactly. That's all they have are vile insults and more egregious smears.. that's the way they are. It's like they have no faith in their candidate whatsoever.. it's all about the hate.

They are pathetic.

[1StrongBlackMan]

63. Good post, complete with examples for what you describe ...

I wonder if certain DUers notice the difference in reception that you receive versus how they are received? I wonder if that even matters to them ... after all, this is just the African-American Group, and we know how little some DUers think of African-Americans, i.e., we keep thinking, acting, and voting wrong.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

69. I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton and would never vote for her in an election

unless she was running against a Republican, in which case you couldn't stop me.