I don't understand the dedication to the Clinton's. I seriously, don't.

[Renaissance Man]

... and I lived through those years.

In light of all of the well-documented information about Hillary Clinton's public support and record (see 2008 primaries, her stance on welfare reform, her support for deregulation of banks, her receipt of support from private prison lobbyists, her support of her husband's stance on race, crime, welfare, and taxes, and free trade), I don't understand how there could be any robust support for her.

... especially not among people that call themselves black progressives. I'm a black male, by the way.

I was reared in a rural southern area (primarily working class) where I was able to see, first-hand, the result of Bill Clinton's policies, especially as they relate to NAFTA and the drug war.

Seriously, why, in light of all of this very public information available on her support for her record and her husband's policies, are so many people here supporting her? I seriously want to understand, but it's mind-boggling.

[leftofcool]

1. Well, according to some, it's Stockholm Syndrome.

But I think the majority of Democrats think she is the better candidate.

[Dawgs]

4. So, no answer. n/t

[leftofcool]

7. Hillary is the better candidate.

I believe I gave you that answer already.

[Dawgs]

9. Why is she the better candidate?

Policy? Experience? What? And, specifically for the AA community.

[AgingAmerican]

13. So you dont even know why you support her?

Must be cognitive dissonance.

[LanternWaste]

8. Answers to the specific question have been given so many times

Answers, in many forms and from many posters to the specific question have been given so many times, I'm compelled to believe that either idiocy or simple bias prevents anyone from finding them.

[BlueMTexpat]

11. It's also sheer flamebait.

Those who constantly pose those questions without ever having even looked at Wiki - at the barest least - are simply trolling.

I used to post answers, only to get insane and inane pushback.

I don't play that game any more.

[Uponthegears]

14. Link?

To just one . . . just one time when you posted a substantive explanation why you (or, more specific to the OP, PoC) do, or should, support Secretary Clinton over Senator Sanders.

Absent that, this is nothing but an unsubstantiated claim of victimhood and naked dodge of a legitimate discussion.

I even gave three of the reasons I had heard for supporting Hillary (good reasons, btw) just to get the discussion started AND, even with that we already have two responses to the OP which are nothing but crickets.

PARTICULARLY in this group (you aren't in GD-P), there are people who are willing to, and capable of, discussing these issues in a mature and intelligent manner.

[JustAnotherGen]

17. If you can't search the African American group on your own

Then please leave.

Group Host Respons.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

33. They are harassing AA voters who support Hillary Clinton. No matter how many times the answers

have been provided, they are asked over and over again.

I don't support HRC or Bernie Sanders and I'm asked over and over again why not.

I'm sick and tired of addressing them. If I want to, I will, but I'm not compelled to.

[Uponthegears]

6. I know you've thought about it

more than that.

After pointing to positions that he thought were detrimental to many of us, all the OP ask is WHY she is the "better candidate."

Is it her electability? (Got no problem with that, btw. Given the alternative, whom, as between H and B are most likely to defeat the Republican nominee is a major factor) Is it her stance on addressing racial injustice in education? (Again, that's a good reason too. Our kids are often suffering because of the color of their skin and/or the communities where some of them have been trapped). Is it her promise to funnel capital to AA businesses? (Lord knows we have brilliant entrepreneurs who need nothing but capital to lift up themselves, their families, and their communities). What else is it?

Answers to questions like that raise the debate.

I'd like to hear some, particularly here where I am now firmly convinced that, at the end of the day, most of us are fighting for the same thing.

[JustAnotherGen]

18. Numerous members of the Af Am Group

Have already answered that question.

Asking over and over again by interlopers who really do NOT give a fuck is harassment.

If it continues - I'm just going to start blocking people left and right.

Now I'm going to let the group do what they must with the OP -

But I'm not being fooled and neither are any of the other Group Hosts.

Seriously - My name isn't Prissy, Kwassa's isn't Pork, Number23 is not named Mammy.

We aren't stupid!

[Uponthegears]

24. I know I

haven't been in this group long, but I share common (although I suspect longer) life experiences with most of its members.

I understand your frustration when non-members come in here, drop the same old questions and take off. On the other hand, if it were not for the people in this group, I for one, would never had the opportunity to talk about what I think are some real important issues. Now I admit I have said some stupid s*** during the course of that and been righteously called on it (and learned from it) but I think I also bring a perspective that is dying out.

As for the last part, I don't come in here for stupid people. I come in here because there are people in here who speak to me and can hear me.

[BlueMTexpat]

12. Nailed it.

And she IS the better candidate.

[basselope]

2. I'm white so I don't get IT.

Just a little background:

I did grow up in an area that was 50/50 PoC (95% African American) and white and grew up friends with lots of different people, never which was based on race. Pre college I cycled through several different "best friends" a few were black a few were white, one was Filipino (We ended up roomates in college).

I honestly didn't comprehend racial issues until I was in college and very late (2 - 3AM) I was driving home from the market. I had two friends in the car who happened to be black. We got pulled over. (One of my headlights was out). I had gotten pulled over for it before when I was alone in the car, but it was a couple weeks until break and I had someone at home who could fix it for free. On THIS night however, the cop wasn't friendly. He ordered the two guys in the car with him (both black) to step out of the car and walk away. He drilled me for 10 minutes on what I was doing out at that hour, where we were going, etc.. He actually issued me a ticket for the headlight (nothing any previous cop had done when I told them I had a friend at home who was going to fix it for free). I walked away and met up with my friends and said "that was weird" and they looked at me and said, "you had two black guys in the car, what did you expect??" It is baffling to me, even as a young adult, I didn't get IT.

Now to the point:

I remain friends with MANY of my high school friends. A lot of them have great jobs, drive nice cars and talk and casually mention how they get pulled over at least twice a year for BS reasons. I haven't been pulled over in 20 years and the last time I did, I deserved it.

So I comprehend the issues, but I don't GET IT, because I haven't lived it.

With that said... pretty much ALL of my AA high school friends are Sanders supporters. We are gen X, not millennials. But, they similarly don't understand people supporting the Clintons. When I dared to ask this question on this website, I was told I was whiesplaining, etc..

But, I just wanted you to know you are not alone and while I do not belong in the conversation, b/c I don't have the same experiences... I can speak for my friends who share your confusion!

[Jarqui]

3. Some people tend to believe what they want to believe

For example, some people tend to listen only to the media that supports their own political party or candidate and ignore the media and arguments from the other side. Time and time again, we've seen that on this site - most often in this cycle with Clinton supporters.

For example, in the face of 340 videos on Youtube documenting her lies and countless media articles on it, I've seen posts around here in this cycle maintaining Clinton never lies. In the court of public opinion, she's probably the most dishonest American politician since Nixon but some people cannot or will not allow themselves to see it.

We see a different form of it with parents who sometimes when someone tells them something bad about their son or daughter, they'll go into denial and won't accept it even when confronting a mountain of proof. Some never accept it or it takes them a really long time.

With enough propaganda pounded into their brains, some people will abandon their basic beliefs. The extreme example (which I'm not comparing to any politician of today) would be Adolf Hitler. Hitler mesmerized a lot of Germans into doing things they would never have otherwise done.

I'm not a psychologist so I can't claim to know tons about this but I think the above certainly explains some of what you have observed. It's not a unique thing to the Clintons but it is there among their supporters. It's been happening for a long time.

I'm not saying this to be mean. It's just the way it seems to me.

[kwassa]

29. so .... another Stockholm Syndrome post ....

How far this conversation has advanced.

[Jarqui]

30. No. I'm not talking about this:

Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon described in 1973 in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors.

These people I'm talking about are not captivated or hostages. They are free to do whatever.

Maybe the candidate has "captured their imagination" but that too is not the same thing as Stockholm Syndrome. They were never hostages.

Sorry, I'm not talking about "Stockholm Syndrome"

If you want to deny what I've talked about happens, that's your prerogative. I would just disagree. I think what I am talking about does happen and we've seen it on this site. I'm not going to link to it because I don't want to embarrass a poster.

[kwassa]

44. oh, you slipped in your Adolf Hitler reference in your anti-Hillary screed ...

and yet you claim no comparison. Cute.

Godwin's Law strikes again.

[betsuni]

40. "in the face of 340 videos on YouTube" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nixon! Hitler! Springtime for Hitler and Hillary! "I'm not a psychologist so I can't claim to know tons about this" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[JI7]

42. that comment says so much

Person watches YouTube video and suddenly feel the need to inform black people about their lives .

[Dawgs]

5. Loyalty to the Clintons and the party.

It's really that simple.

[JustAnotherGen]

10. You mean

Black people?

ETA - You could always read through the numerous threads back here and form your own opinion.

[ismnotwasm]

15. I feel like apologizing

Every time I see this shit. And I see it far too often, like everyday.

Like I do when I see some of the replies in this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027633177

[JustAnotherGen]

16. Ahh see don't apologize Ism

It's all about the OP.

It's all about him.

He could have asked - Why are you supporting clinton?

He could have stopped - and actually read the numerous threads back here on the election.

Instead - he chose to disrupt.

Because it's all about him. Why HE needs answers. Why HIS need is important.

I'm just starting to dismiss these people.

As a group host - I can't trash it ike I do in other threads.

Why didn't he just post it in the Sanders group?

They are worried about this - not me.

[ismnotwasm]

19. ...

[JustAnotherGen]

20. I just went back two years - this is his first post

Search Results
•Search term(s):
• Post author: Renaissance Man
•Forum or Group: African American
• Post type: All posts and replies
• Start date: January 24 2014
• End date: February 24 2016
•Sort by: Date
•Edit search / New search

This group only matters when there is something in it for the OP.

Obviously he would have posted back here prior to that if he REALLY cared about our discussions.

[ismnotwasm]

21. Yes.

That makes me very sad. Very odd too, this is the best group left that's active!

[Uponthegears]

25. Okay

I see your point re: the OP. That does look really hit and run.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

34. Just like racism only matters during the primary season to exploit black voters.

Any other time no one was concerned about issues concerning black people. Now all of the sudden, Sanders people want to know why we're not supporting the candidate...racism now matters to them when it didn't back in 2008. And it certainly didn't matter during the last 7 years as President Obama has been treated like shit. They, like their candidate, was too busy bashing him to notice any racism.

[Kind of Blue]

35. Oh, and don't leave out socialism.

Whenever that pops up, we are so sought out. But splinters and fails every time because, you know, racism within it.

[mcar]

27. I feel the same way ism

This is just embarrassing.

[qwlauren35]

22. I have said...

I am primarily a one-issue voter. I vote for the candidate that supports abortion rights. Both candidates do. So I have been on the fence. Recently, I have seen some of the sexism that still exists, in America, in DU, and I decided that I want a woman to be president.

So that is my reason.

[JustAnotherGen]

23. Next time - don't respond

I knew off the top of my head you had a post this past weekend.

It's still on the first page of the group.

Any 6 year old could have read the damn first page and found that post as an explanation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118741875

Thanks for being polite to the OP - however -

I think we all need to find our favorite post and just keep linking to it over and over and over and over again.


I wouldn't tolerate my spouse asking the same god damned question over and over again I'm certainly not going to tolerate it from a bunch of personas at the other end of the internet.

[qwlauren35]

26. Point Taken.

...

[Kind of Blue]

28. Renaissance Man, perhaps once the

shock and awe of many PoC's decision to support HRC dissipates a little, then maybe you'll settle down enough, without expectation or outcome for yourself, to take the advice so many have given here for many, many years.

If this reality is mind-boggling to you, all I can say is welcome to our world.

[ladjf]

31. Money. nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. I agree with you 100%, but I think many blacks who support her truly believe that she

has a better chance at winning the GE. More than that, while they may like Bernie Sanders and even agree with him more than they do HRC, they don't see how he can get anything he's promising done. First, he'll have to get past Democrats. Obama couldn't even achieve that most of the time. Then, he'll have to get past a Republican-dominated House and Senate. I simply do not see that happening.

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. Could it be because we've heard the "40 acres & a mule" being promised by BS before. Ain't falling

for it again. Nope. I read upthread that this is your first post in this group. We've been here for years, and according to your profile, so have you? What took you so long to find us? Did you come back here just for electioneering purposes?

[onpatrol98]

37. I think she can win.

1. I think she can win.
2. I like the work she did toward the children's health care insurance plan.
3. I believe she has foreign policy experience.
4. I believe the fact that she already knows world leaders will help us.
5. I believe she is already respected on the world stage.
6. I believe she wants to continue President Obama's agenda.
7. I believe she already has a good relationship with military leaders and advisors.
8. I believe she put as much thought into foreign policy as she does with economic policy.
9. She's never attempted to sell herself as a great civil rights activist.
10. I think she's the right person for the job at this time.
11. I believe she can deliver on her suggestions. Her ideas are realistic and reasonable.

[Number23]

39. Hey!!!!

That is a very interesting list you have there. I really like #8. #6 is good too and in fact, alot of people in SC who were asked why they were supporting Clinton over Sanders listed that as a reason.

Sanders' comments about "course correction" on Obama's policies, red meat to white liberals, appear to be a massive turn off to just about everyone else.

[onpatrol98]

46. Hey!!!

How is life at Bernie Underground?

[Number23]

48. Horrible and abso fucking lutely HILARIOUS at the exact same time

After this primary, anyone who tries to pretend that racism/sexism and other ills don't afflict the Dem party every bit as much as the Republican one may as well wear a Scarlet "F" as their avatar for Full of Shit.

[Uponthegears]

45. I was going

to skip on out of here after generation stripped down the OP, but first let me say even as a Sanders supporter that is an impressive list.

[Cha]

47. Thanks onpatrol.. I believe you are right.

[Number23]

38. We all saw first hand what happened during Bill Clinton's tenure as president

What I can't understand is why some people feel like they "saw" so much better than the rest of us. People saw what they saw. What else is there to question?

Add onto the fact that Bill and Hillary are two different people and I think you'll come close to answering your own questions soon.

[gollygee]

41. People are hating on the Clintons right now

I remember the Clinton years. We had a labor shortage, so both my husband and I got awesome jobs that paid really really well, and that we'd never be able to get today. I love Bernie, but I remember those years fondly and I will not complain if we have more Clinton years.

[FrenchieCat]

43. Here.....

This may tell you something....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118739074

And it is also why Sanders today highlighting the Welfare Reform bill as a "failure"
of Hillary Clinton (since her and Bill are evidently interchangeable when convenient),
shows that Bernie's got no clue.

He's decided that Black folks just loved them some welfare
and are still mad about it being changed to Welfare to Work....
cause you know us Black Folks, we just want stuff handed to us without us having to work or
anything!