I am worried about backlash against the AfAm community as a whole if Bernie

[randys1]

doesnt win the nomination.

I was just reading something here at DU about Bernie still struggling for the AfAm vote, which I wish he wasnt, I wish everybody was voting for him, but then you all know that about me.

But I fear an anger and backlash similar to the alleged Black vote supporting prop HATE in California, etc.

You know, where the Black people were blamed for that law...sigh

[thereismore]

1. Who is pushing the meme that Bernie has trouble with AA? Who is saying SC is her firewall?

Not Bernie. Bernie is not the author of your fear.

[randys1]

2. I am referring to polls, not memes. So instead of addressing the issue, you do this.

Perfect example of the problem.

[thereismore]

3. And I am talking about who is pushing this. Certainly not Bernie. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. Facts are not "memes". eom

[still_one]

4. my response has nothing to do with the primaries. African Americans have been a common target for

scapegoating as long as I can remember.

Those that are inclined to think that way, already have racist issues to begin with, so I don't hold any stock in those with that mindset.

[randys1]

5. BTW, voter ID laws, all of which are unconstitutional, are starting to rear their ugly heads

This is gonna be ugly.

[still_one]

7. You are right Randy, which make the Supreme Court even more critical now

[Kind of Blue]

8. ^This!^

[Kind of Blue]

9. ^^This!^^

[JI7]

6. the backlash has been happening since before this primary

Because of support for Obama.

[Kind of Blue]

10. And ^^^This^^^

[Number23]

22. You fucking nailed it

[Tarheel_Dem]

63. !!!

[uponit7771]

64. +1, the establishment ... usually doesn't like to cede power

[Alenne]

11. Our whole experience in this country has been one big backlash

I think we'll be fine. We've been through scarier things than angry Bernie supporters.

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. +1. ... I ain't scared! The only thing they can do is ...

not vote for the Democratic nominee ... attempt to harm me, by harming themselves ... you know, vote against their own interest, if you will.

[JI7]

20. pretty much all black people say they will vote for Sanders if he becomes the nominee

but they seem to have no problem not voting dem if it isn't who they claim to support.

i wonder if it's difference in life experience even though they claim "we are all in this together".

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. Absolutely ... Black people have never trusted politicians ...

to do much of anything (directly) for us ... history has taught us that; but, we have never had the luxury to cast "protest" votes, and/or throw political tantrums and not vote (for the least of the evils, i.e., practice political pragmatism, as history has, also, taught us that that is the surest way to enable those that would actively do us harm.

[JRLeft]

44. This like I posted in my own thread the only people who can help us is us.

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. I kind of disagree; but, end up in the same spot ...

The only people that WILL help us is us. But, too, many of us think that by helping others, they will help us, or the help that we fought will trickle down to us (and that is good enough). Both, are ahistorical.

[JRLeft]

47. Sorry, I don't see help coming from other people to help us, all I see is rhetoric.

[1StrongBlackMan]

49. Oh ... I do agree. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

27. Good point!

What part of our ancestors survived the middle passage do these people not understand? We have strong backs for a reason.

[Jarqui]

12. Bernie would not stand for it. And neither would the other 99.9999% of his followers

There will probably be a few a**holes.

If you believe in the things Bernie does, as most of his followers must, everyone is equal, has a full set of human rights and we all must abide by the law. Or by the rules of the forum (for here)

Bernie also believes strongly in voting rights. We all should know that. How can we not respect their right to vote for someone else and the result?

It's ironic. If there was one white in congress who fought for the blacks right to vote, my guess is it would be Bernie Sanders since he showed up in 1991. If it isn't, he's right up there. There's a good story to back that up in the attached link:
(just did a post today on it):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511250181#post3

So it's a bit of a head scratcher that he is having as much trouble as he is getting blacks to support him. He's fought for them in many ways much of his life. His voting % with the NAACP & ACLU is slightly better than John Lewis. From that perspective, it seems a little unjust to me. But, it is what it is. If that's how the blacks feel, that's how it is. He'll have to lick his wounds and move on.

[JI7]

14. then it was unjust for black people not to support Joe Lieberman

In 2004.

[Jarqui]

17. Was it?

over Al Sharpton? And Joe wasn't in the thick of it.

[JustAnotherGen]

25. Booker is doing the right thing on Voter Rights

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sen-cory-booker-fears-voting-rights-act-threat/story?id=32977021

The senator recently introduced the Voting Rights Advancement Act aimed at preventing practices that interfere with citizens’ voting rights, such as requiring voter ID and changing voting locations.

The bill expands upon the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which first prohibited discriminatory voting practices used to deny the right to vote to racial, ethnic and language minorities.

The former mayor of Newark appeared on ABC News’ “This Week” four days after a Texas court struck down a voter ID law deemed discriminatory.

“You're more likely to get struck by lightning in Texas than to find any kind of voter fraud,” Booker told host George Stephanopoulos, explaining that the overturned law restricted the voting rights of 600,000 people who are disproportionally minority and poor.

He's got the sparkle to get it done. Sometimes all that glitters is truly gold.

[qwlauren35]

67. Actually...

I think the one senator would have been Ted Kennedy.

[Starry Messenger]

13. It's going to be ugly.

[FrenchieCat]

18. What's New?

The fact that you're concerned about a backlash should be telling you that
folks don't actually give a Sh*t about the AA vote if it ain't going their way.

Sad, but predictable.

That's White folks for ya!

[Drunken Irishman]

19. Wouldn't be the firs time. There was backlash toward blacks in 2008 over California's Prop 8.

[JustAnotherGen]

24. Yes there was!

[Lazy Daisy]

21. I think either way the majority goes

there will be a$$holes on the other side that place blame. It's great that this election cycle has brought the black community to the forefront of topics. Unfortunately those issues are also being used as political fodder.

There are people who place blame everywhere, there's no getting around it. Doesn't matter which candidate gets the nomination.

[JustAnotherGen]

23. Bernie is a keyword I have trashed

So can only see this when I select my subscriptions.

So just saw this now.

You are on point - but I think it's as early as this Sunday -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=39577

I'm even more worried if Trump gets the nomination then loses or wins. He has tapped into Xenophobic and Racist beliefs. IE They are far worse on the Right.

[Gothmog]

26. I fear that you may be right on this prediction

[Depaysement]

28. You worry too much

If he doesn't get the black working class vote and the young, that's on his supporters, on us, not the black community.

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. But when has ANY group blamed themselves ...

when there is another to blame?

[Depaysement]

35. Good point

That is pretty rare and I didn't think of that. But blaming the voters is pretty rare too.

If Bernie supporters blame African-American voters, there should be some real serious push back. It's a ridiculous argument.

But I will pose another question. Aren't we more likely to hear the "First Black President" and Hillary's supporters blame the black community if significant numbers start to turn to Bernie?

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. No ...

blaming the voters is not so rare. (see: DU2-The Blaming of the Black Electorate for Prop. 8)

But I will pose another question. Aren't we more likely to hear the "First Black President" and Hillary's supporters blame the black community if significant numbers start to turn to Bernie?

I have seen no evidence to support that. In the many instances where a Black person has turned to Bernie, there has been no screams of "traitor" or "sell-out" directed towards them.

[Depaysement]

41. Yes . . .

First, Prop 8 is one instance. One time makes it rare.

Name the last losing candidate who said "I lost because African-Americans didn't vote for me and they should have. It's their fault." You can't because it's bad politics and clearly wrong. It can never be the voters fault. This is politics 101.

Of course you "have seen no evidence to support" the Clinton camp denouncing African-Americans who vote for Bernie. Hillary's still the presumptive nominee and there has not been a vote in a state with a significant black population yet. And the numbers turning to Bernie as reflected in polls aren't really significant yet. She won't lose SC but if she does you might see a backlash.

[1StrongBlackMan]

42. Eugene McCarthey ...

Of course you "have seen no evidence to support" the Clinton camp denouncing African-Americans who vote for Bernie. Hillary's still the presumptive nominee and there has not been a vote in a state with a significant black population yet. And the numbers turning to Bernie as reflected in polls aren't really significant yet. She won't lose SC but if she does you might see a backlash.

Your crystal ball must be better than mine.

[Depaysement]

60. Whatever eom

[azurnoir]

29. Backlash from who exactly here on DU, nationally, both?

I'd that is a micro concern compared to the big one-what if Hillary wins the nomination but loses the election, then what? I ask because a whole lot of bandwidth has been spent on Bernie's race problem and how popular Hillary is with PoC, right now it's South Carolina that's in focus, so a win there may well go towards securing her the nomination, however when was the last time South Carolina went to the Democratic Party in GE? It was 1976 before that it was 1960

http://www.270towin.com/states/South_Carolina

[JustAnotherGen]

31. Perhaps - both?

You need to review DU2 - type in Prop 8. Number23 tipped me off awhile ago about that. Yep. . . there will be backlash here. She might if you ask her real nice share the narrative of what happened. I was here as early as 2007 but really low key. So DU (run us off???) and 'out there'.


Quote -

however when was the last time South Carolina went to the Democratic Party in GE? It was 1976 before that it was 1960

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population

I hate looking at the old mostly white with a few blacks and other minorities thrown in stats. If we do that we have to acknowledge that Jimmy Carter (a god damn hero) one NH but was a one term President. He also won SC right? As an O'Malley supporter - *teasing you here* - don't give me false hopes!

Damn you you carrot dangler you!



Point Blank - South Carolina is the combine NH and Iowa for black Americans.

In terms of BLACK ISSUES framed from the point of view of how BLACK Americans have experienced America - it is an excellent litmus test.

Let's not discount that.

I'm in one of the top 20 highest percentage of black states (NJ) - to me it matters. I don't get a say here. This will be decided long before June. That's why I have the luxury of not having to choose a candidate in the Primary. I'd personally like to know how folks like me living in one of the historically oppresive states have to say about these two candidates.

I have more in common with a poor black woman in Greeneville than I do a rich white man in NH who may be a Democratic but wave that stupid assed don't tread on me flag.

Her race and gender (commonality) out ranks his wealth (commonality).

Let's just not be too quick to be dismissive because of folks did when I was three years old.


Until such a time where we have a national primary day - SC is the best we've got.

African-American Alone Population (2010)[1] % African-American
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population

1 Mississippi 1,074,200 37.30% March 8th - If They Can Vote

2 Louisiana 1,506,534 32.4% March 5th

3 Georgia 3,150,435 31.4% Super Tuesday - Includes Atlanta aka HotLanta - high educated affluent black population many transplants from northern cities the past 15/20 years

4 Maryland 1,798,593 30.1% April 26th

5 South Carolina 1,290,684 28.48% *First High Black Population Primary - the NH/IA combined of black Americans

6 Alabama 1,251,311 26.38% Super Tuesday

7 North Carolina 2,048,628 21.60% March 15th

8 Delaware 191,814 20.95% April 26th

10 Tennessee 1,055,689 16.78% Super Tuesday

9 Virginia 1,551,399 19.91% Super Tuesday



The Next 10 highest - why it matters
11 Florida 2,999,862 15.91% March 15th
12 Arkansas 449,895 15.76% Super Tuesday
13 New York 3,073,800 15.18% April 19th
14 Illinois 1,866,414 14.88% March 15th
15 New Jersey 1,204,826 14.46% June 2016
16 Michigan 1,400,362 14.24% March 8th
17 Ohio 1,407,681 12.04% March 15th
18 Texas 2,979,598 11.91% Super Tuesday
19 Missouri 704,043 11.49% March 15th
20 Pennsylvania 1,377,689 10.79% April 26th




Nevada is #23 with about only 250K black people. That's this weekend too.

[azurnoir]

34. I remember 1976 too it's the year I got married

something about President Carter's win it was coming off of WaterGate Nixon's resignation and what appeared then and now to be a clemency deal between Nixon and Ford, in short the GOP didn't stand a chance anywhere. 1960 I don't remember as well I was 4 but legend has it that Kennedy won the South because of LBJ being his running mate.

Now all of the stats you posted do indeed point to Hillary being the nominee, that said my point was the GE itself-when it comes to most of the 'deep south' states the Black vote was not enough in either 2008 or 2012 for the Democratic party to win those states with Florida, Virginia and North Carolina being exceptions, but will it be enough in 2016?

[JustAnotherGen]

36. If Pennsylvania and Ohio and Florida

Don't engage in voter rights shenanigans - then yes - it will be enough

In 2012 -we (I've been active in Bucks County even though I'm in NJ) were biting knuckles over Philadelphia and the potential voter ID issue.


2000 - Florida

2004 - Ohio

And I don't think the people of Michigan will seriously look at a Republican right now.

The Republicans automatically lose NJ and NY - but if someone picks Christie they are dead in the water in NJ. No one respects the s.ob.

It's not over until it's over - that I say to the Sanders supporters. We know South Carolina does NOT matter in the GE - they matter because of their population of Democratic voters and early date - for the primary.

But in the GE - it's all about those states with the top 20 - and many are north or mid atlantic.

Interesting stats - CA, MD, and NY
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/01/03/10-richest-black-communities-america/

Another interesting one - This is wealth to debt ratio
http://www.blackenterprise.com/news/the-10-best-states-with-top-black-household-incomes/


My state is near the top of the list. Promising $15 an hour to someone making $44K is a serious downgrade for them and could make them homeless. They can't hear that - and those are the black folks I know and love and congregate with - *mischief* on street corners.

[azurnoir]

37. who's promising $15/hr to someone already making $44,000 a year? or already making around $22/hr?

that would indeed be upsetting

[JustAnotherGen]

39. Exactly - so what would he need to offer that group of black Americans?

What does Clinton for that matter?

I brought up voting rights for a reason.

[azurnoir]

40. $15/hr is an offer for minimum wage-do you think that no Black person works for that?

some do just as some Whites and Latino's and Asians do - is that really so shocking he's brought it up in front of many crowds, no matter what the racial make-up

[JustAnotherGen]

43. I believe we work for far less than that

And if you are a black woman - even chop off another .10 cents!

If you are a 22 year old black male with a degree from Princeton working on Wall Street (first job out of college asked back after an internship) - and you have to make it from Hoboken to the Street each day -

Is $15 an hour more important to you or is the risk of running into George Zimmerman (a total loser at the game of American Life) a greater risk?

Is having a NJ State Policeman or a NYC policeman think you are packing a gun when you have your earbuds in a greater risk?

Is stopping into Macy's a greater risk?

If you move your car to Dover or Flemington to visit family- is your worry your income or your life?

If your mother or aunt gets breast cancer (both high earners with excellent health insurance) are you even remotely concerned about health insurance/coverage - or are you more concerend about the racism that has been proven to exist in the medical community (even black physicians are part of this) that means she is less likely to live - and to receive subpar care. That's one to familiarize yourself.

Do you care more about income inequality - or more about will you be denied a mortage while a white male making less will be given one. And if you are even as a high earning black male - you will potentially be redlined into one with a much higher interest rate than the low earning white man.

If you are that black male and had 85% of your college tuition earned via academic scholarship, a portion by your parents and a portion in loans (about $20K in student loans post Princeton) - can you explain how you beat the American 'meme about young black men' through hard work and perseverance but you might get stuck paying for that spoiled snot Abigail to go to college?




These are arguments I've picked off a facebook private message thread from the young man in question who is HORRIFIED that I won't be voting in June.


I think Bernie could 'get' him if he could speak to that. Perhaps take economics OUT of his conversations with black Americans. Focus on those things that whether you are a 22/23 year old black male set to make a nice bonus this year year or a 12 year old little boy in Ohio with a water gun -

Talk to the things that are universal to them based upon the color of their skin.

[azurnoir]

45. Bernie has and quite eloquently here in part more @ the link

PHYSICAL VIOLENCE
PERPETRATED BY THE STATE
Sandra Bland, Michael Brown, Rekia Boyd, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, Freddie Gray, Jessica Hernandez, Tamir Rice, Jonathan Ferrell, Oscar Grant, Antonio Zambrano-Montes, Samuel DuBose and Anastacio Hernandez-Rojas. We know their names. Each of them died unarmed at the hands of police officers or in police custody. The chants are growing louder. People are angry and they have a right to be angry. We should not fool ourselves into thinking that this violence only affects those whose names have appeared on TV or in the newspaper. African-Americans are twice as likely to be arrested and almost four times as likely to experience the use of force during encounters with the police. African-American and Latinos comprise well over half of all prisoners, even though African-Americans and Latinos make up approximately one quarter of the total US population.

PERPETRATED BY EXTREMISTS
We are far from eradicating racism in this country. Today in America, if you are black, you can be killed for getting a pack of Skittles during a basketball game. Or murdered in your church while you are praying. This violence fills us with outrage, disgust and a deep, deep sadness. These hateful acts of violence amount to acts of terror. They are perpetrated by extremists who want to intimidate and terrorize black, brown and indigenous people in this country.

ADDRESSING PHYSICAL VIOLENCE
It is an outrage that in these early years of the 21st century we are seeing intolerable acts of violence being perpetrated by police and racist acts of terrorism by white supremacists.

A growing number of communities do not trust the police. Law enforcement officers have become disconnected from the communities they are sworn to protect. Violence and brutality of any kind, particularly at the hands of the police meant to protect and serve our communities, is unacceptable and must not be tolerated. We need a societal transformation to make it clear that black lives matter and racism will not be accepted in a civilized country.

We must demilitarize our police forces so they don’t look and act like invading armies.
We must invest in community policing. Only when we get officers into the communities, working within neighborhoods before trouble arises, do we develop the relationships necessary to make our communities safer together. Among other things, that means increasing civilian oversight of police departments.
We must create a police culture that allows for good officers to report the actions of bad officers without fear of retaliation and allows for a department to follow through on such reports.
We need police forces that reflect the diversity of our communities, including in the training academies and leadership.
At the federal level, we need to establish a new model police training program that reorients the way we do law enforcement in this country. With input from a broad segment of the community including activists and leaders from civil rights organizations we will reinvent how we police America.
We need to federally fund and require body cameras for law enforcement officers to make it easier to hold them accountable.
We need to require police departments and states to collect data on all police shootings and deaths that take place while in police custody and make that data public.
We need new rules on the allowable use of force. Police officers need to be trained to de-escalate confrontations and to humanely interact with people who have mental illnesses.
States and localities that make progress in this area should get more federal justice grant money. Those that do not should get their funding slashed.
We need to make sure federal resources are there to crack down on the illegal activities of hate groups.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

[JustAnotherGen]

48. I'm still not voting in the primary

You need to do that outreach to young educated black men with good jobs!

I don't like the choices I'm left with so I'm just going to let you Hillary and Bernie fans fight it out!

[randys1]

50. Just saw another GDP lecture the Black folk at DU thread.

It is so frustrating for me, as I am a Bernie supporter who is not tone deaf, anymore, to this tactic.

[azurnoir]

57. a question was asked of me and I answered if you choose to call that "lecturing the Black folk"

so be it -fellow Bernie supporter

[JustAnotherGen]

59. Yeah - there's that

And the thing is - I think it's decided before June!

[azurnoir]

58. your choice you asked I answered

[monicaangela]

51. Black people

aren't going to get a pass no matter who wins, if it is a democrat that wins. Black people helped to get president Obama elected and the hate meter jumped several notches, maybe that isn't the only reason, but I believe it had a lot to do with it. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't, so I say vote for who you want and continue to work for change.

[randys1]

52. African Americans in Flint might wonder if they are being paid back for their votes.

[monicaangela]

53. Flint, Benton Harbor, Detroit

and any other Michigan city that is predominantly black. This has been going on in Michigan long before the Flint disaster. In Michigan, I don't think it has to do with how you vote, I believe it is more who your ancestors were.

[randys1]

54. Yep, but the added insult to them that Black people for the most part voted for Obama

really pisses them off.

I know in my personal life the cons who know how I voted have never gotten over it.

[monicaangela]

56. Exactly,

but you have to ask yourself, how did they feel about me before they knew I voted for him and if their approval or disapproval of you is worth your worrying about it.

[randys1]

61. Ugh, could care less about their approval, but these are dangerous and violent people

they do mean us harm, trust me on this one.

Hell, if you are Black then you know that, you dont need me telling you that, sorry about that.

[monicaangela]

62. I am and I do

check this out: http://publish.dvlabs.com/democracynow/360/dn2016-0217.mp4

Off topic but I was amazed by what I saw on this program this morning.

[EdwardBernays]

55. don't worry

if Bernie loses people will be a lot more interested in President Trump's new wall than in AA's obsession Hillary Clinton...

[Quayblue]

65. Kicked for you calling it..

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. I think prop8 is very different from this issue. I hope there is no backlash, but if there is

it should be against all established democratic groups that are not young and white. (gays, blacks, hispanics, asians, women, labor etc., because she is carrying all those demographics too)

[firebrand80]

68. I posed about this in GDP a few months ago

I plan on reviving the post after it happens

[1StrongBlackMan]

69. Smell this ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511321395

I suspect you are correct.

[MisterP]

70. no more and no less than when Garcia lost Chicago

[Blasphemer]

71. Any backlash will soon qive way to what will have to be a sobering acknowledgment of a new reality

November 8th will make it crystal clear that PoC matter. That their votes matter. That their issues matter. Many prognostications seem to be ignoring or dismissing these voters. I'd like to think that will lead to a change of attitude and approach on the left, but I am not hopeful.

[vdogg]

72. I'm not

Let em cry about it. Maybe they'll learn to take us a bit more seriously next. Perhaps their concern for us will expand beyond election season.

[randys1]

73. It will break my heart if Bernie loses, but if he does, like I said feb 16, the BACKLASH

against my African American friends, scares me.

You have seen it now, and I dont like it AT ALL

[NWCorona]

74. As a black Bernie supporter

I'd say you'd be right to worry somewhat but what could they do? It's not like they could try to marginalize us anymore. I personally still think that Bernie will win in the end but like one poster said above. I don't think the black vote will be taking for granted anymore we just need to build off of that capital.