I think I get it.

[thereismore]

Dear brothers and sisters, I am a white man. I'd like to share what I am thinking regarding Bernie Sanders and politics of race. I know this is a protected group and I don't mean to intrude in an unwelcome or a confrontational way. I will remove this post if any one of you asks me to.

So here it goes:

What Bernie is doing wrong is suggesting that class is more important than race, or at least that's what he sounds like to you and me, and I am a white man, like I said. I wish he were not so focused on class. I think he knows that for all people, justice is very important. What he does not appreciate is that black people are not done with race and cannot be done with race, given the current state of our country. There is no justice for black people, not really. He may be thinking that Dr. King achieved more than he actually did. He may be thinking that race is less important than class because he does not have a racist bone in his body. To you, race is very real because you experience racism all the time. He didn't. I don't think he would do a single racist thing, but he doesn't have the experience he needs to understand what his mannerism, his singular focus, and his anger, is communicating to Black America. I hope he will understand that economic justice takes back seat to racial justice any time, because racial justice goes to the core of human dignity.

You may think he is a racist, but I rather think he is just naive about it. He himself is not a racist, but he doesn't know what racism feels to you.

Peace.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. Well written!

This item though -

.He may be thinking that race is less important than class because he does not have a racist bone in his body.

I do not believe Senator Sanders has a prejudice bone in his body.

[thereismore]

5. Thank you. nt

[Number23]

2. I don't think that anyone in this forum feels that Sanders is racist. If they do, they've kept that

well hidden.

It is possible to think that someone does not give enough thought to racial discrimination and oppression, it is possible to think that someone is dismissive of minority concerns without thinking that they are racist.

[thereismore]

6. Thank you. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. As Number23 stated ...

You may think he is a racist, but I rather think he is just naive about it. He himself is not a racist, but he doesn't know what racism feels to you.

No one here thinks Bernie is a racist. And I don't think he is naïve about racism; but:

... but he doesn't know what racism feels to you.

Oh, yeah. Welcome to the AA Group.

[thereismore]

7. Thank you. nt

[qwlauren35]

4. I think you get it.

Last edited Thu Feb 4, 2016, 09:26 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't know what Bernie knows, but I have to admit that when his supporters were saying that EVERYTHING would be solved when we fixed the class issue, I wanted to barf. There was one guy in particular who just would not give up. I gave example after example and he turned it around. He said that the guy who got shot in the back by the cop in SC wouldn't have been stopped if he could make his child support payments, which he could have done if he had a good paying job, which is why his death was a class thing. Finally, I pointed to those poor girls who got chased away from the swimming pool and had the cops called on them. I don't think he could fight that one, but he refused to see anyway.

I *still* have not decided who I will vote for. I am more worried about voting AGAINST the Republican nominee. I had not expected to get involved in the presidential race, but I sense that I'll be phonebanking come September. And I DESPISE phonebanking...

[thereismore]

8. Thank you. Sigh. There are people like that. You can only do so much. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. In all fairness ...

They didn't say " EVERYTHING would be solved when we fixed the class issue" ... they acknowledged, after awhile, that fixing the class issue wouldn't fix racism. And then, they stopped. Meaning, EVERYTHING that we care about would be solved when we fixed the class issue.

[qwlauren35]

10. I'll edit my post.

It was one in particular.

[thereismore]

11. To a thinking Bernista, it is very obvious that fixing class would not solve racism. Just imagine

taking all wealth and spreading it equally around. Would racist people stop being racist? Not even close. But I think Bernie knows this and hopefully we will hear more about it as the campaign moves from the snow-white North elsewhere. Notice that they did not ask race-related questions at all at the NH debate! Bernie got a comment in, something like "I wonder what the response in Flint would have been if it were a white suburban community". He knows. I hope he will speak more to the issue.

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. I'll go one better ...

Just imagine taking all wealth and spreading it equally around. Would racist people stop being racist?

Hell, no despite that exact proposition having been made:

since a society with egalitarian economics will probably be far less racist than a society with market economics

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1141483

But I would offer ... in order to be "fair", the spreading out would have to account for the intra-class disparity that already exists, e.g., Black (PoC) vs white wealth, male vs female wealth) ...

AND this would likely create MORE racists, and misogynists, as academic studies have already tested, and conclusded, that white males see efforts at establishing social justice would prove to be at their experience.

http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/norton%20sommers.pdf

Notice that they did not ask race-related questions at all at the NH debate! Bernie got a comment in, something like "I wonder what the response in Flint would have been if it were a white suburban community". He knows. I hope he will speak more to the issue.

What I noticed was ... Bernie's opening statement address struck his one-note - "The Game Is Rigged" with, despite months of criticism, no mention of racism; whereas, HRC's statement spoke directly to social justice, early in her 60 seconds.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

16. It's the white liberal version of "trickle down economics"! LOL! And for the record, I do not think

Bernie Sanders is racist, but he's racially insensitive.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

13. There are many white liberals like Bernie, though. Because they don't experience it, because they

don't live it, and because they wrongly believe that racism is only about the "N" word or explicit expressions of bigotry, they don't see it as important and palpable as class.

For some white liberals, too, racism is a very painful subject to accept and difficult to admit; therefore, class is the distraction. So the argument goes that if we deal with class, we inadvertently address the race issue, which couldn't be further from the truth. Many black people have achieved economic and social mobility, only to continue to experience institutional and systemic discrimination based on race. Even with my two Master's and a Doctorate, I can expect to be followed in the store--even when wearing a nice suit. White people pretend not to understand this. They understand it fully because it is they who practice it. If racism didn't exist, then I wouldn't be followed; Henry Louis Gates, Jr. would not have been accosted in front of his own home. There are so many examples; I could go on and on.

Believing that racism will just go away if class inequities are dealt with is not only wrong, it is dishonest.

And that's why I'm struggling with Sanders. I want to vote for him, but this issue is incredibly important to me.

I can no longer compromise my beliefs here.

[randys1]

14. Wow, no idea you were this educated...Two masters AND a Doctorate, again, wow

And to the subject at hand, I was listening to Michelangelo Signorile, Gay host on Sirius, talking about the fact that more people need to hear Bernie talk about race and Gay rights and so on, Women's rights.

Like I hear from you and Michelangelo, there is trust there for Bernie but it is conditional on him being more upfront about this.



It is easy for a white guy like myself to assume your money affords you new or no boundaries as to race that those without money dont have, now I know that isnt true but I can see why many whites think that way.

White people need to shut up, myself included if not especially (stating the obvious isnt accomplishing a damn thing) and listen to what Black people are telling them.

White people created this problem and we have to solve it.

(I wouldn't be surprised if I knew about your degrees and forgot, I probably even asked you about it at one time, but I am getting old and my memory sucks)

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

15. In political science and policy studies...just like Sanders. In fact, I used to see him around

the city when I worked closer to Capitol Hill.

Bernie is incredibly friendly and will talk to you nonstop if you let him.

I'm just not convinced yet.

I want to vote for him (I live in MD), but (a) I don't agree with his ideological position on the issue of race, (b) I am not convinced that he'll bring a large segment of the black electorate along with him, and (c) therefore, I do not think he can win.

----

No worries about your memory. I don't remember ever saying anything about my education at all. I may have years ago--again, trying to make a point on race v. class--but that goes over like a lead balloon here.

Anyway, I agree: White people created this problem, whether it be the race issue or the class issue; it is THEY who must fix it.

[randys1]

17. I wondered about his friendliness and you confirm what I assumed. I truly believe he is

every bit of the person his supporters say he is, on all issues.

But being that person and being President of the United States of America, are two different things.

The fact that he is the most genuine and likable and sincere person, doesnt translate to accomplishments on their own.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

20. That's no act. He is a genuinely friendly guy. Very!

[thereismore]

18. I understand as much as I can, not having experienced any of it myself.

I have said many times that I don't know how black people can live, day by day, everyday, without justice, and yet there is no violent rebellion. I don't want one, god no. But I would be mad as hell if I had to live with no justice. It's the white privilege in me, being used to be treated fairly. But justice is very important to me, for all.

As far as Sanders, I expect and hope that he will fully articulate what I think he knows inside (all of the above in this thread). He risks losing some white vote by doing that. I do hope that all the white people who supported Obama in 2008 will also support a white guy who tells the truth regarding race. We shall see.

Sanders was the only one who mentioned race directly yesterday (Flint). His religion is that if one of us is suffering, all of us are suffering. I think that extends to the race issue directly. I hope he will talk about it specifically.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

19. I do understand that, and I get it, too. I know for sure that there are white people who are doing

the work. But there are far too many who are not being totally honest about race in our society.

And class is a distraction. The Black Lives Movement has tired to educate Sanders on this issue, though I find it difficult to understand how he could be raised in Brooklyn and spent time in Chicago not being more aware on the issue of race.

Chicago, in particular, is the most segregated city in the nation. And Brooklyn has witnessed tremendous decline in the black population due to displacement or gentrification.

I'm frankly baffled by Sanders on the race issue. I understand his supporters. But I thought Bernie would be more nuanced on this issue.

I see you and other white people who "get it", so it's odd that Bernie doesn't.

I did fully appreciate him acknowledging Flint, too.

[thereismore]

21. Some thoughts on Sanders and BLM

When BLM first appeared at his town hall back in July, he appeared taken aback, even annoyed.

Here is my take on it: As an old white man used to collegial if cutthroat tactics in the Senate, he was surprised at the tactic of disruption and shouting. They would not listen and they would not let him speak. It wasn't really an offer for a dialogue from BLM. They were venting their frustration at the whole world. It's been too long since his college days and he became out of touch. He was probably thinking "why the hell are you yelling at me, I am not your enemy." He didn't say it though and he should have. Anyway, that is my charitable take on it.

When Hillary finally faced BLM months later, she was ready and handled it more gracefully. Good on her.

The future will show what Bernie really thinks about race. He should give a major speech on race. After all, they made Obama give one and he was black.

[Empowerer]

28. You're right. And another part of the problem is that, as liberals, they feel immune from even the

suggestion that they are not sensitive to all matters related to race. Even worse, however, is that some of them believe that their liberalism has earned them some form of gratitude from African Americans: "Look at all we did to help you get your civil rights and you repay us by telling us we're not sensitive?!" The whole "You can't criticize Bernie because he marched with Dr. King" and "Bernie's been fighting for civil rights his whole life" - even though Sanders walked away from the civil rights movement and moved to the whitest area of the country more than 40 years ago. Nothing wrong with that, but he certainly is in no position to expect lavish praise for all of his "sacrifices" on behalf of blacks.

The use of that kind of tactic as a club against African Americans is enormously frustrating an I think it's one of the reasons he's having trouble gaining significant black support.

[Kind of Blue]

22. I have to disagree. Bernie Sanders is not naive.

My feeling is that he was/is numb and oblivous. It's just impossible for me to believe that a man who "marched" with Dr. King has/had such a difficult time wooing POC voters, even if he hasn't done that much policywise for us.

The problem for me is that this reasoning of naiviety is just another way to avoid owning that the country is racist, and therefore Sanders is, too. Not evil, Klan racist, of course. It's not about feelings. It's about numbness to feelings. We live and die in institutional/structural racism so this is nothing new but constant deflections of The problem that's right in our faces. We are an afterthought and we are annoying.

I've known of Sanders most of my adult life and considered him one of the good ones in Washington. But I'm no longer suprised that he cannot link institutional racism and economic decline. He obviously can cite examples now, but if he could only connect that white people's fear of POC actually divides us and leads to harsh conservative economic policies that harms us all. We're just not there yet.

[thereismore]

23. You may be right. We may never truly know. I am more optimistic than you, but

I respect what you are saying.

Sanders is one of the good ones. As his Hillary. Nobody is perfect... I wish Obama could stay, I really do.

[Kind of Blue]

24. I respect what you're saying, too. But you cannot assume my

level of optimism. I'm very optimistic that all of the facets and intricacies of racism are being exposed. I'm optimistic that we can counter every deflection that maintains supremacy. I'm very optimistic that we have a cadre of fearless youths and therefore about the future. I'm very optimistic when I read more and more dirty cops are facing trials, being relieved of duty or removed from society. I'm very optimistic because my family came through an intense phase of brutality and can add my voice strongly to the outcry. I'm very optimistic because our outcry is being heard.

But my optimism is not tied up with candidates. It's with thousands of people waking up and joining us doing something about it in whatever capacity possible.

[thereismore]

25. Spot on. Candidates will inevitably fail us, it's the nature of politics and compromise.

Even the best of them. I am glad you are OK. Keep at it.

[Kind of Blue]

26. Aww, Thanks. It's definitely trying but

there are good people here who always remind to celebrate the victories, as well.

K&R for starting a discussion with thoughtful replies to responses you've received!

[Empowerer]

29. Here Here regarding thereismore's thoughtfulness

[Kind of Blue]

31. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[Quayblue]

32. +1 nt

[Empowerer]

27. Beautifully said. Thank you for sharing this!

I agree that Sanders is not a racist. I have never thought he is - not even close. His problem, as you said, is that he doesn't really understand the complicated issue of race and seems to lack the empathy required to come to an understanding of it.

I really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for taking the time to write this. I look forward to more conversations.

[Digital Puppy]

30. K&R'd for an excellent read and deep responses...thank you! n/t