African American
Related: About this forum"Resolving the Bernie/Hillary Differences" by Tom Hayden.
Thought you might like to hear what a real counterculture icon - one who, within the system, actually accomplished a bit of real social justice - has to say on this matter:
It almost certainly won't work for the Sanders campaign to claim that he's the "best' candidate for people of color or feminists. He'll have to do what Obama did in 2008 when black voters turned away from Hillary when Obama did so well in white Iowa on his opposition to Iraq. How could Bernie switch black and brown voters away from Hillary by showing he can win the argument over Wall Street? Other than her suffering a meltdown over a scandal or gaffe, it doesn't seem plausible.
This is the classic dilemma of the Left dating back one hundred years -- class analysis against a race and gender analysis. Echoes already are showing up in Vermont where Bernie sympathies with white gun owners while Hillary, massacre victims and black people are seething against the NRA.
Or take South Carolina, the citadel of failed populism, where the black primary electorate might be fifty-five percent and white progressives are limited to university towns. With their right to vote on the line, will many blacks vote for Bernie? Will Rep. Jim Clyburn, the former leader of the Orangeburg State student movement and now the third-ranking Democrat in the House, jump to Bernie? Impossible.
More here.
randys1
(16,286 posts)some history about how we got here in the first place.
Some around here seem as if they need some history lessons.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Heard him speak at the ripe old age of 16 and was mesmerized. Prior to that, I was only enthralled by model rockets and Mad Magazine.
Perhaps part of the history lesson could include a peek into the later lives of Jerry Rubin (Wall Street trader) and Abbie Hoffman (coke dealer). The end of the sixties was marked by the rift between those who believed that working within the "establishment" was the only way to achieve progress vs. those who believed in attacking the establishment to force change. The years since have settled that philosophical question. Jerry and Abbie are dead, along with their ego-driven spasmodics. Tom is still an influential thinker and writer.
I know that you're a Sanders supporter, but, with all due respect, I sense that he hasn't quite internalized the clear implications of that paradigm and is trying to have it both ways. And he's doing his supporters an injustice by not only failing to explain and clarify the distinctions, but, indeed, by encouraging much of the failed philosophy of the period to which he remains stubbornly attached.
randys1
(16,286 posts)someone like Bernie to fix income inequality, head up medicare for all.
I mean if I cant have Bernie as president...
Number23
(24,544 posts)white independents."
And he and his supporters have made that abundantly clear with their incessant attacks on President Obama. Which makes his decision to run as a Democrat so incredibly bewildering to me.
randys1
(16,286 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)like you, I've had a blast today, thumbing through the plethora of "random negro" posts from the Berniacs. I'm glad I overcame my codependent nature. I'd be curled up in a ball right now.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Posted by and K*R'd to the hills by posters who are known all over this web site for being openly and PROUDLY hostile to black people.
It was obvious that antagonizing black folks was how some Sanders supporters chose to lick their wounds from his loss in Iowa. Especially when the data came out that even in lily white, rural as hell, Iowa, where people are as non-urban as you can get and enjoy bucking the system, minorities there went for Hillary by almost 25 percentage points.
Those posts were an exercise in passive aggressive fury. That was not "hey, I've come across something interesting and want to share it with you guys." That was clearly "I've spent the last 45 minutes HUNTING for every video I could find in a sad and desperate attempt to pretend that my fantasy is reality and that reality is fantasy. And if can piss off a bunch of people in the process that's just gravy."
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Doing it again, are they? Sigh. I'm not going to go look for it because I'm depressed enough (personal reasons) already.
I am interested to hear this analysis.
That said, I'm listening to Hillary railing against tax inversions, Countrywide, Wachovia (saying Bernie is not going far enough), and I honestly do not think that would have happened without Bernie's candidacy.
Number23
(24,544 posts)The economic vein that Sanders has tapped into has definitely been huge and Hillary would be an imbecile to not see that and try to tap into it as well. Time will tell if voters consider her authentic on this issue.
I'm depressed enough.
Stay strong, Susan.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)The smarter ones anyway.
Saw your posts in that weird "The DLC was all about ushering in white voters" thread. Would love to hear more about this! What do you think about starting an OP in this forum on it??
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's really easy to make broad simplistic statements about race and southern Democrats that are persuasive but ultimately wrong, and I probably was guilty of that in that reply.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)Just finding out who certain folks are.
The time to hop down in the trenches may have just passed this election cycle.
Maybe this is a lesson learned for the next go-round.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Cringeworthy.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)betsuni
(25,536 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)betsuni
(25,536 posts)I can only imagine...
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)I know his supporters have high hopes for this state. I know they are mad about everything in the dominant culture.
But they don't realize - black folks - well many . . . Including myself are seething over the church shooting. That hit home in SC.
If we thank Sanders for bringing the oligarch banksters to the table -
We have to thank O'Malley for bringing common sense solutions for the gun owner and seller to the table.
Now, those black folks in SC know they are living in black rain. They know that rising tide will leave them behind as it ALWAYS HAS.
So what do they have?
They have a demand to stop shooting up their churches. A demand that white people in SC bring their asses into this century. They also are a bit more conservative and understand incremental change. They've had smoke blown up their asses since 1964.
Racist violent aggression towards blacks must stop. We've had enough.
And Sanders focus on economic justice to people who have never been given a fair shake - the grandchildren of former sharecroppers - isn't going to resonate. They've had too much race based violence, pain, and daily indignity inflicted on them by their poor white neighbors on the other side of town to now "just trust that they are in it for them too."
The white voters in the Democratic Party are simply not in SC at the rate black voters are. Clinton's tough on crime background and rising to O'Malley's gun challenge will earn her their votes.
Conversely - I will be shocked if she wins NH.
Now - Presidential Candidate Obama - this is why I thought you were full of shit with that nonsense about no red or blue America and no white or black America. I voted for you a second time with a smirk because "I told you do." Can't wait for you to walk that back in your memoir!
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)in this thread.
I too noticed the posts about 'Barbara Jordan!' Apparently someone learned of her yesterday.
Maybe in a few years they'll discover our progressive President. 'Hey everyone! Obama+1!!!one!!'