So according to DU Clinton AND her supporters are dishonest, and Clinton herself is UNHINGED

[randys1]

I cant link to the thread, I may be banned if I do that.

I cant post in GDP anymore given when I do I am banned/silenced.

But that is what DU says now about Hillary Clinton and her supporters.

Ugh...

I personally dont know what is wrong with people who say these things while simultaneously claiming to be liberals or Democrats.

[Thinkingabout]

1. A diversion tactic.

[gollygee]

2. I'm not sure what is going to happen in the long run

Sanders did well in Iowa and will do well in New Hampshire. But Clinton is likely to start to pull away after that. I like Sanders, but liking Sanders doesn't mean you have to hate Clinton, and if you do turn your love of Sanders into hate of Clinton, how do you handle things in the likely event that Clinton gets the nomination?

[randys1]

3. Especially when Bernie ORDERS you to support her, and he will.

I really worry that whoever the candidate is, there will be a lack of support that doesnt have to happen.

lets say for instance Hillary eeks it out.

There is some truth to the youth vote being very much for Bernie, so this youth vote maybe doesn't show up for Hillary but not because she isn't worth supporting but because they have heard nothing but hate about Hillary from day one from the GOP and from many Bernie supporters they hang with.

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. I doubt Bernie will ORDER anyone to support anyone ...

though I do suspect that he will endorse her and encourage his supporters to work to get her elected ... should she win the nomination.

[randys1]

5. Yeah order is the wrong word but he will strongly suggest and request.

I was just about to do a post as follows (reading about the meaning of left)

The meaning of left: "You work 24/7 to get extremely liberal policies implemented such as single payer, nationalized education, nationalized power and energy sources, much higher minimum wage, much better workplace protections, and then on election day you take 5 minutes out (8 hours if you are Black) and you vote for the least harm, so you still have something to work for the next day"

And, let me add, to not do so, makes one no liberal in my book.

And it isnt liberal to be for Democratic socialism like Bernie's if you at the same time cant acknowledge that racial problems arent solved with economic solutions

[wildeyed]

15. Some of them also seem a bit confused

about the function of political parties and the role of activists vs. politicians. many also fail understand that if you don't vote regularly, no one give a fuck what you think. Not even your own party. You don't count. But they are going to learn us by not voting!

[randys1]

25. Great point! The last thing anybody who CLAIMS to be concerned about the system would do is

not vote.

You would ALWAYS vote and unfortunately because of our system, for the least harm.

[BlueMTexpat]

11. Good question.

What seems most clear to me is that those who call Clinton and her supporters unhinged or worse are neither progressive nor Democrats.

Since so many of those who post nothing but trash on DU seem to post 24/7 every day, they are likely full-time trolls, deliberately intending to sow discord among Democrats. Let's not fall for it.

Bernie is by no means unhinged and his genuine supporters, whether Democrats or true Independents, are well-meaning people who really want the middle class to get a fairer shake. That is a laudable goal indeed, but it takes more than simply repeating the meme ad nauseam and waving one's arms. Saying that it will happen because of **revolution** or "feeling the Bern" is pie in the sky.

Hillary is more likely to address that goal effectively, IMO, and recognizes that the real problems in our society go beyond mere "inequality" and must also be addressed. "Inequality" differs from "inequity" and Hillary understands the difference. I don't believe that Bernie really does. I believe that Hillary is better equipped to address ALL - or most of - those issues much more effectively, if only because she also has the overwhelming support of Dems in Congress, based on those there who support her candidacy. Change requires teamwork and Bernie is not really a "team" player.

[PeaceNikki]

6. One DUer called her supporters meth users.

And it stood a jury 2-5.

[randys1]

7. Totally unacceptable and what is worse is can we mend this divide when the time comes?

Will those mostly white folks who are solely focused on their pocketbooks, be willing to do the right thing?

[PeaceNikki]

8. I think some will and some won't. It will get even uglier here, I'm sure.

I predict there will be flanmeouts, followed by a number of bannings, followed by screams of unfair purging.

[Cha]

10. "meth user" here! Brawaaaaa.. yeah "the jury" that's 6-1 berns according to Skinner.

I consider the damn source. It's a freaking badge of honor.

[Iliyah]

28. Aw shucks, actually I prefer vodka

Getting a bottle for the Super Bowl party on 2/7

[wildeyed]

16. oh, link please!

PM if you want. That kind of stuff is funny in a twisted way. Plus I bookmark them for a fun "where are they now" thread we will have some time in the future

[PeaceNikki]

17. Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1117664

[wildeyed]

18. Already on ignore!

:snort: There is a still a reason.

[mcar]

22. I just alerted on it again

Admins need to be made aware of this crap.

[betsuni]

23. That's exactly what the Conservative Cavers say.

[Empowerer]

9. And what's up with all that "screaming?"

[Jim Lane]

12. Note that "unhinged" has also been used BY Clinton supporters ABOUT Sanders supporters

I'm not disagreeing with your denunciation of over-the-top rhetoric. What I dispute is the implication (even if only by omission) that all fault lies only on side.

There has been too much vitriol on both sides, and both sides are also guilty of what you've done: identifying problematic comments only from the opposition.

As for specifically "unhinged" (a partial listing):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1057434

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1057053

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511050672 (h/t to this author for at least acknowledging that some people on the other side are posting in good faith)

I won't bother to get the links where people in the Clinton Group smugly refer to themselves as the "adults" and the "normal people", apparently in contrast to those juvenile-minded weirdos who dare to come to a different conclusion about the race.

[randys1]

13. I have been here long enough that I can assure you it started with the endless attacks

of Hillary, and eventually the Hillary supporters started responding in kind.
But at first it was all one way, that is undeniable.

To this day the attacks using rightwing memes of Hillary goes on all day long.

I have had several posts hidden for pointing out racism on DU, almost all of it from one group, not both.

[Jim Lane]

14. My general impression is not consonant with yours

In any event, "But, Mom, he started it" has usually not impressed adults as a line of argument.

[wildeyed]

19. As is the

"well both sides do it" argument. A very unimpressive and stale line of argument. All the adult peeps are TOTALLY unimpressed with that kind of stupid argument. We know because they told us

Why are you here again? Did you have something of worth to add to this discussion?

[Jim Lane]

20. I'm glad you apparently join me in dismissing "But, Mom, he started it" as anything of worth.

The "well both sides do it" argument is often advanced in support of saying that it's therefore all right. Any fair-minded person reading my post would discern my actual argument: Both sides do it, but neither side should do it.

Whether that point constitutes "something of worth to add to this discussion" probably depends on one's perspective -- thoughtful consideration of the issues, or unabashedly hypocritical denunciations of everyone on the other side of the intra-party divide. I suspect that, by criticizing both sides, I've riled some zealots on both sides.

[wildeyed]

21. This is a group.

Not GDP. Regular posters like Randy should be able to vent here without getting picked apart, IMO.

The irony, of course, is that Randy is a strong Sanders supporter and yet he feels comfortable criticizing the behavior of some of his compatriots. Kinda the antithesis of zealot, don't you agree?

And I am a strong Clinton supporter and yet I defend Randy. Not very partisan of me. But we are both appear to be annoyed by you!

So not much intra-party divide going on here. I observe more respect for other poster's primary preferences here than any other place on this site. And mostly we discuss AA issues because it is the AA Issues forum, not primary politics forum, or a candidates's forum.

So when you bring your partisan mindset in and make judge-y statements about how topics can appropriately be discussed in this group without understanding the dynamics, it is not bring much to the discussion. That is my considered, adult opinion.

[Kind of Blue]

24. Whoa! Now that just brought tears to my eyes.

"The irony, of course, is that Randy is a strong Sanders supporter and yet he feels comfortable criticizing the behavior of some of his compatriots. Kinda the antithesis of zealot, don't you agree?

And I am a strong Clinton supporter and yet I defend Randy. Not very partisan of me."

Well said

[randys1]

26. You get a candy bar!

Pick out two pieces (what my mom would always say to me when she brought home a box of See's)




But thanks.

[wildeyed]

31. nom nom nom

Can I poke them first to see what's in the center

[randys1]

35. My mother did that until she figured out what they all were then she became a

specialist when it came to ordering See's.

I like

http://www.sees.com/milk-chocolate/bordeaux/200349.html

[wildeyed]

38. OMG those are so good.

Are you in the Bay Area? I grew up in Oakland, so those were part of my childhood too. My parents were always pretty broke back then, so See's was a special treat!

[randys1]

39. I am not but very familiar. Love the look of that new Bay Bridge at night.

[Jim Lane]

34. I find your post surprising.

You criticize me for my alleged "partisan mindset" when my post stressed the equivalence of both sides in the intra-party divide (which does exist on DU; I did not intend my reference to be limited to the AA Group).

I'm also surprised that a response to an OP means that the poster is "being picked apart" and that this is somehow impermissible or an offense against good taste. DU (including all of its Groups) is a discussion board. People express opinions, and others agree or disagree. There are some limits in the "safe haven" Groups, where certain dissenting opinions are prohibited, but I don't think that limitation applies here. I'm not aware of any policy in any Group that prohibits disagreements with regular posters but treats other DUers as a free-fire zone.

If the OP violated the SoP, because this Group is not GD-P, then presumably a host would have locked the thread. I saw it on the Greatest page so I posted my thoughts, which were directly in response, not going off on some tangent. I claim no expertise in what's appropriate for the AA Group. For that I will of course defer to the hosts.

[wildeyed]

37. I find your response surprising.

I am simply expressing an opinion as well.

I am not a host here and none have chimed in, nor would I expect them too. Clearly there is no SoP violation. So quit with the histrionics

Let's review the chain of events:

R: I am mad about a thing that happened in another forum
AA group: :hugs: yep, happened to us too!
You: But they hit us back first! I am mad about a thing that happened in the Clinton group. They hit back too!
R: I disagree. I think it started elsewhere and they are reacting.
You: Restate that you disagree with R's opinion, then insult his reasoning skills even though you used the same muddy tactic.
Me: Take it back to GDP or your candidate group 'k? Because I see you.
You: Histrionics and denial of wrong doing.

Technically you are completely in-bounds as far as I can see. But you are not being nice and this is, believe it or not, basically a nice group.

Randy was clearly venting. In a group that he regularly posts in among friends. You came in with some resentments from another group and make serious judgments on what is and is not "adult". You use big words and proper (although somewhat tortured) sentences, but you came here looking for trouble and then act hurt and offended when someone obliges.

I'm done now. Feel free to post all you want

[Proud Liberal Dem]

27. I don't understand where the vitriol against Clinton is coming from

I get that some people may prefer Sanders to her but I don't get why she is being treated by some Sanders supporters as though she were a Republican or at least indistinguishable from being a Republican (or just plain evil incarnate). She is obviously not as left-wing as Bernie is but I don't think that anybody can make a serious/credible case that a Hillary presidency would be indistinguishable from, say, a Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio presidency in terms of the policies she would promote, the SCOTUS nominations she would make, etc.

[randys1]

29. Some of it is GOP plants here working to convince people not to vote, and some of it is

people who see Bernie as a sharp contrast to everything else, I am the latter.

Until my Black brothers and sisters on DU pointed out to me their issues with Bernie or his supporters, I would have been hard pressed to find anything about him I didnt like other than guns.

I have many concerns about a Bernie presidency, some are new as a result of my friends here, some are not new.

AT the end of the day, I still support him because I believe if we dont get single payer and lift the cap and so on, or at least talk about it, we are doomed as a middle class.

I believe Hillary is very progressive in some areas but unwilling to rock the boat enough in others.

I believe Bernie is 10,897,335 times better than any or all cons, and Hillary is only 6,789,300 times better.

[wildeyed]

33. You make some excellent points.

I am so cynical, I don't really believe that it much matters what a politician says, only how well they manipulate behind the scenes. And for that, I think Hillary is better.

But you know what? I respect your opinion. You are firm in your commitment. So am I. May the best candidate win. See you on the same team in the GE

And to me, this forum is a godsend of intelligence and sanity to get AWAY from the partisan nonsense. I firmly believe that black people get to own their blackness. Not up to me, a white woman, to tell anyone how a candidate will best serve them in that area. It is helpful to me to LISTEN to what black posters are saying on the topic because the more I (and other white progressive coalition members) understand, the better we can craft policy and legislation that serves THE ENTIRE coalition. I mean well on racial issues, but I do not LIVE that particular bigotry. Plus, I am deeply interested in black history (although I hate calling it that. OUR history, at least a less distorted and sanitized version), have been since I can remember.

[2naSalit]

30. I agree

but I also think that it has some woman-hater elements to it. She has been under attack for over 30 years with vitriol that has not truth to it. It's interesting, and I have seen this in action all my life, that women must endure ridicule about every aspect of their being and vilified at length because they are women. It's the fear of women, I think, that fuels the flames of this tacit hatred expressed in all the hater speak, finger pointing and attempts to intimidate anyone who favors Sec. Clinton... because she is powerful, strong, sensible and not backing down from all the attacks upon her.

I'm undecided but I have always thought highly of both candidates and would like the supporters to be more civil toward each other. I'm pretty disgusted by all this emotional crap, and that's what is manifesting here, emotive appeal rather than sound and critical thinking skills - which seem to be severely lacking among the citizenry of late. that's why the Donald is getting so much attention, emotive appeal which requires little to no independent cognition.

And I support all civil discourse regarding the election process and I support Randy!

[qwlauren35]

44. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Hillary is not a Republican. Not by the longest stretch of my imagination.

Interestingly, I can see myself campaigning for Hillary in September, but not for Bernie. Maybe I *do* like Hillary. Surprise. You see, I figure that if "the Bern" gets the nomination, there will be lots of fanatic white liberals to campaign for him, and I won't be needed.

Weird, huh...

[zappaman]

32. Actually she's a psychopath.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1128159

[randys1]

36. I cant respond in that thread, it is in GDP and if I do I will be stalked and hidden, but someone

needs to see if we can get that person banned.

[zappaman]

40. It was alerted on both to jury and hosts.

And its still there.

[randys1]

41. That is what I figured. DU no longer represents or supports the Democratic Party, at all.

Now I dont really care because I am not a party person, but what is so horribly wrong here is if you are an actual liberal, like myself, who finds any and all racism unacceptable, you will have a hard ride around here.

As I have.

White privilege has run amok on DU

[romana]

42. I have the worst jury luck

I was on the jury for this one. I'm juror #1. At least this was a little closer to a hide than the other one that allowed blatant racism to stand 6-1.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Wed Feb 3, 2016, 02:17 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I honestly think she has an anti-social personality disorder
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1128159

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"I think she's actually a psychopath". So this is passes for discussion on DU these days. We have 3(soon to be 2) candidates that are miles better than the other party. This constant tear down of the candidates is not doing us any good. Calling Hillary a "psychopath" is way over the line. Please hide.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Feb 3, 2016, 02:31 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Fail in so many ways. Sourcing Wikipedia to make an uninformed armchair diagnosis of a public figure is beyond foolish nonsense, and suggestive of a more insidious agenda.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is opinion. I think very few if any (ok, one) DUers think Sec Clinton is a psychopath. Responses already disagree with the post. Relax.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I may prefer Bernie, but that is WAY TOO FAR. f this doesn't get hidden, I hope the Admins see it for another chance to block this shitty comment.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[randys1]

43. Thanks for trying, but Hillary hate is not just allowed here, it is almost a requirement to belong