This community is being alert-stalked

[steve2470]

I'll do my best, despite my limitations, to support you. It's wrong. It's un-Democratic. It's fascist. It's beneath the original dignity of this board.

I hope Mr. Skinner thinks this over very very carefully, and evaluates each case on its own merits. 1SBM and Bravenak did NOT deserve time-outs.

[lunamagica]

1. K&R.

[yuiyoshida]

192. K&R

I got my first one the other day, fortunately, the Jury said my post was okay, 5-2. I suspect there will be more in the future. Gotta shut up that damn Asian girl!!

[BKH70041]

194. If bravenak is alerted upon or suspended, that'll be additional proof.

I've spent the last couple of hours updating myself on all the events that have taken place.

The "GO BERNIE!!!" writer(s) has made it clear; bravenak disagrees with Mr Citizen, and by extension those who are in alliance with Mr Citizen, so bravenak will be alerted on with the intent of having her account suspended and, in affect, her voice muted on DU. It seems they're already getting an early start by silencing her allies. And as stevenleser has pointed out, they have the numbers by a margin of 4:1 to make good on their promise. While the admins claim they have the numbers and stats to back up their beliefs that nothing is taking place of the sorts, sometimes numbers and stats don't tell the whole story. I would have to say in this case, they don't tell the story at all.

Peace to bravenak.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

2. This post didn't get alerted?

[steve2470]

3. just wait nt

[Cali_Democrat]

57. It was alerted...

I posted the results below.

[steve2470]

64. thank you

[Cha]

139. Why yes it did. Of course.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

160. I have NEVER alerted on a post.

[Cha]

165. Me, neither, Spitfire.. except when I ran across an obvious one that escaped from the discussionist

But, that was a long time ago.

[Randomthought]

4. Something is wrong

I have been a member since the beginning even though I don't post much. It seems that now about 75% of the time I come to this site I'm being asked to serve on a jury.

[steve2470]

5. There is an ongoing attempt to silence people, especially PoC

If I was to come out tomorrow as a full-throated supporter of HRC as well as PoC, within several weeks I'd probably have a time-out. If you're full-throated for Bernie, you don't get hides, in general.

[Andy823]

9. I agree with your OP

And with this post. It's been going on for some time, even before all the candidates announced, but it has gotten a whole lot worse since they announced.

I just recently put one of the number one shit stirrers on ignore, and it's really helped, although there are at least a half dozen or more "followers" who seem to be getting just about as bad.

[steve2470]

10. I only have a few people on ignore right now, but I'll be glad to expand that list

I'm pretty much troll-proof. I can spot an attempt to bait me or piss me off a mile away. As soon as I see it, boom, you're on ignore. No hides in 11 years, so it must be working. Watch me get a hide for this post lol

The worst troll is, ironically, probably one of the most popular people here. All I'm going to say.

[Surya Gayatri]

50. ^^^WORD^^^!

The worst troll is, ironically, probably one of the most popular people here.

[OilemFirchen]

56. I THINK... I know?! ...... Who you mean?!? Wow!!!

Maybe not.

[steve2470]

58. not saying, no way :-) nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

133. ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

[azureblue]

16. over simplifying, aren't you

the issue, as always, is content. If you post vetted facts and support references to legit sources, then you won't get "silenced". If you post smears, half truths, tangental accusations, fantastic leaps of logic that border on conspiracy theories, and downright lies, coupled with personal attacks against the candidate, that will get you a boot in the butt.

As for me, if you post a lie or a lie coyly couched in weasel words, you will get called a lair.

[steve2470]

17. Nope

Nice try. Good day.

[yardwork]

44. Nonsense. And I can't help but laugh at your hide below.

[pnwmom]

108. 1StrongBlackMan and Bravenak got silenced. Are you accusing them of this kind of behavior? n/t

[Cha]

138. I'm quite sure nobody here needs your advice on the OP.

[uponit7771]

159. No, I was skeptical at first but not now... like many issues when it comes to blacks being

... mistreated the empirical numbers might not tell what I'd like them to say but they no doubt saying there's something damn wrong at the least

[awoke_in_2003]

60. That is why the jury system sucks...

it is mob rule. The majority of the site (at least by several informal polls) are Bernie supporters. So, mathematically, we are likely to have a greater share of assholes in our midst. I find it very sad, as I think Bernie Sanders is a great candidate. What was it that Gandhi said about Christians?

[Number23]

79. steve, I know you're a Bernie supporter as are many of our friends in AA.

I'm just wondering if any of this has affected how you feel about him as a candidate?

The actions of Bernie Sanders supporters have been discussed almost as much as Sanders himself.

[steve2470]

84. The assholes in my "ranks" here on DU are pushing me away from Bernie, to be frank

I'm looking at Martin O'Malley more carefully now. If the idiots want to promote Bernie, they are backfiring. If they want to destroy the Bernie community, they are succeeding marvelously. These people need to get a grip. Be nice. Be polite. Be positive. Sing his praises. Otherwise, STFU.

[Number23]

88. What you're saying is EXACTLY THE SAME THING THAT BRAVENAK SAID.

She was supporting Sanders until everything happened with BLM and she just couldn't after seeing the way that so many of his supporters behaved towards that group. And not even just here on DU, all over the Internet. Which is why more people and groups than you can count have called these folks out on their behavior over and over again.

heaven05 was in exactly the same boat. He was a strong Bernie supporter until too many here started to dismiss and minimize everything he felt was important. That's two intelligent, strong, wonderful black posters here that would have been EXCEPTIONAL emissaries for Sanders to the black community here and both were run off by the man's own white supporters. Do they not see how fucked up and beyond counter productive that is???

Bravenak just told me that another black Sanders supporter has told her that he's not posting on DU anymore, he was so revolted by the reaction from Sanders supporters to BLM. And their attempts to deflect and blame everybody else for this don't resonate. No one else did this.

[steve2470]

89. These people are either trolls or totally clueless and need Human Relations 101

WAKE UP BERNIE SUPPORTERS! YOU CANNOT WIN THE GE WITHOUT THE POC COMMUNITY. That's a fact, Jack, take it to the bank.

[pnwmom]

111. I just had a B. supporter today tell me that

the Democrats didn't need votes from AA people because they were going to get so many cross-over votes from Republicans and Independents.

[steve2470]

113. dude is delusional or a troll nt

[Cha]

143. Thank you for your post, 23.. it explains it quite clearly what has been going on here from the very

beginning.. since #BlackLivesMatter Protested at Netroots Nation.

[Demeter]

172. Now that's just irrational

Bernie Sanders has no control over these sickos!

If you think punishing Bernie by removing your support is going to make the idiots go away or feel pain, you have got the cause and effect totally confused.

The only thing one can do, besides agitating for an end to the alert button, is put the nutjobs on Ignore.

Don't take it out on Bernie! That's shooting your own self-interest in the foot.

[steve2470]

173. all I can say is...

some people here on DU need to get a grip, really badly. I'll vote for who I choose, for any reason I choose. The idiots here are not helping my decision whatsoever. I know you don't agree with me, so... I shall bid you good day, kind sir.

[Number23]

180. The issue is that most Democrats would be happy with any of the candidates running for office.

One is a clear front runner. But in this forum, most of us are non-committed and are totally open to all of the candidates.

But one candidate has supporters who go out of their way to shit on and minimize everything that those of us in this forum think are important. They have flooded this forum, not to actually engage with us, but to "teach" and scold us -- kind of like what you just did. Or even better, they sit in their forum and trash this forum while veering *thiiiiiiiiis close* to trashing black people as a whole.

So if you are pretty non-committed and would be happy with any of the choices, what impact do you think that this behavior from the supporters of one candidate and one candidate ALONE has on the members of this forum? Has on the black community as a whole??

Using 'ignore' ain't gonna fix this. No way in hell. That ship has long since sailed.

[pnwmom]

110. +1000. n/t

[Cha]

140. Wow! thanks for being so candid, steve.

[steve2470]

142. my pleasure

I'm still mulling Governor O'Malley. I'd be fine with Secretary Clinton and Governor Chaffee as well. Secretary Webb ? Well, I guess he'd be better than a f************g Republican.

In short, my mind is not 100% made up, like most people I suspect.

[Cha]

144. I'm glad you're going to be fine with Hillary if she get the Nom.

[steve2470]

146. yes I will

I think she's a good woman, and was a good First Lady and an excellent Secretary of State. I will never ever say an unkind word about her. I will never go against her in real life, either. So many people on DU are blind to reality. I'd rather have Secretary Clinton than ANY Republican.

[NOLALady]

197. I will vote for the Democratic nominee.

But, the actions of Bernie Sanders supporters have affected me quite negatively.

[McCamy Taylor]

6. Divide and conquer is the RNC's number one tool.

[steve2470]

7. yep

I am quite confident the RNC has at least one troll here, probably a lowly intern. Plenty of unpaid trolls.

[azureblue]

18. it's their tactics

and similarities of wording,that give them away

[yardwork]

42. That's not the only thing going on here.

The left has a long history of issues with racism and misogyny. No point in pretending it's not so. I'm a lefty myself.

[Cha]

153. Mahalo yardwork.. "The left has a long history of issues with racism and misogyny.

No point in pretending it's not so. I'm a lefty myself."

[Admiral Loinpresser]

8. KnR! n/t

[murielm99]

11. KMOD, seabeyond and hrmjustin

are also on timeout.

They have supported this community, African Americans and HRC.

I have two hides, both for criticizing Bernie supporters. I have been here since 2003, and lurked since 2002. In all that time, before now, I have only had two posts removed.

At this point, I am more concerned by the letter Bravenak received. It is more important than my own situation.

We all need to support this group, and the individuals being targeted.

[steve2470]

13. yes, the letters are the worst thing by far

Last edited Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:57 PM - Edit history (1)

It's a crying shame KMOD, seabeyond and hrmjustin have been targeted. Hrmjustin ? WTF. He's one of the very nicest people on DU. Lawdamercy.

[azureblue]

20. the ones targeted

are the ones who have them most veracity, get to the truth of the matter, and make the most sense. Those attacks are designed to smear and cast doubt on them, to steer people away from the facts of the matter. Very Rovian.....

[rbrnmw]

199. What?

This is really sad those are some great advocates to have on your side. I am leery of posting at all anymore. What Mr. Citizen did to Bravenak was the worst of all. I read through the threads and was so upset by the things people were saying. Accusing her of sending them was the one that made me angriest. I hope she is safe. She is one of the best posters here imo.

[steve2470]

205. +1 nt

[Quackers]

19. hrmjustin is on timeout?

When did that happen?

[steve2470]

21. since 9-1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=565088

[Quackers]

23. That sucks

We never shared the same candidate but justin always has been respectful to me and others that I seen.

[awoke_in_2003]

68. If he has ever been disrespectful to anyone...

I have never seen it.

[steve2470]

70. same here

I try very hard to be polite, and Justin almost always "outpolites" me.

[Number23]

82. Me either. I couldn't agree more with you.

[catrose]

132. me either n/t

[Cha]

141. Justin, is one of the most respectful beings I've encountered online. He had the temerity

to defend Hillary Clinton, though.

[awoke_in_2003]

147. He supports Hillary

I support Bernie. It is too bad that a little difference like that could cause so much animosity. I have served with him on MIRT, pretty sure I was a moderator with him. I respect his opinions, and he mine. It is quite simple, really. Too bad others can't see it.

[Cha]

151. Thank you, awoke_in_2003!

[awoke_in_2003]

155. Hey cha

How you doing?

[Cha]

164. I'm good, Mahalo.. how you doin', awoke?

Aloha

[treestar]

178. yeah that is a huh?

very nice person

[LiberalArkie]

36. I have had about 5 or 6 hides. Been called a liar when telling about my grand father

Last edited Sat Sep 12, 2015, 04:47 PM - Edit history (1)

in the bonus army. Been jumped and hidden for a remark about BLM calling HRC. I said that "it was nice that they called", I thought that it was nice, nothing mean about it. Hide. It is just not BLM or HRC. It is just a lot of hate coming from some people. A lot of people seem to have a lot of rage right now.

I have been pounced on Bravenak many times, but I defend her right to do it. She believes very deeply in her beliefs. I admire it. It is not common these days, people these days believe in only what will benefit themselves and to hell with anyone else. I respect her very much. I am an old southern white man, with all the baggage that comes with it. But I was raised correctly by Episcopal Republican parents, (not very conservative). I was taken care of an old black lady when my parents were gone. I spent more time with her grandkids than I did with white kids. I was raised in El Dorado, Arkansas, not exactly a liberal stronghold. I was beaten because I was a "nigger lover". But even those ignorant racists had the right to think as they wished. I did not like it, but I understood they could not help it "they were raised that way" I was not.

I do not know why, I do not know when it will go away. But when a person ALERTS on another person and votes to hide, (to me) they go against everything that liberalism and progressives are against. The vote against free speech. And they do it anonymously. To me the person that alerted should be made known. Hiding in the shadows to attack is a very cowardly thing to do. I have never voted to HIDE anyone, even when what the person posted made me want to throw up. My reason is that if the post is visible then they probably are then made a fool of.

To allow someone to accuse another and not be know is not how our country was formed. To have anonymous people make a decision about it is not how our country was formed. Vote to LEAVE IT ALONE. No matter how many times you throw up when you read it.

I plan on every time I am part of a jury to immediately post that I voted to leave it alone. I will not be a party of the ones making judgements of others while hiding behind white hoods and capes, because that is how I see it.

It is so wrong.

I realize that no-one will agree with me, I am a weird person of the old school. But flame away, it is your right and privilege.

Peace.

Edit: because I can't type and see and the same time.

[steve2470]

41. you were pleasant and constructive, so no reason to flame imho

I can understand your viewpoint. Personally, I think we need moderators. The admins don't agree, so far.

[LiberalArkie]

52. I really want our Democratic principles to be present here on DU. No anonymous trials.

No anonymous charges being brought by unknowns and no convictions by unknown people. This is what happens in totalitarian regimes, it is not America, or should not be.

If a person called to be on a jury, let the others know, even if it might challenge your beliefs, maybe your beliefs need to be challenged. Mine did, I changed. I have remade myself many times through my life. I have changed things 180 degrees many times. I really feel sorry for people who can not change how they view life. Must be a pitiful life.

I went to church, was an altar boy. Very strong beliefs. Became an Atheist. Became an evangelical, Baptist, Charismatic, and Pentecostal. And I was an in your face evangelical, in your face Baptist, in your face Charismatic, and in your face Pentecostal. Now I am a laid back person who believes that Jesus mist have been a laid back dude, kind of a free sprit, not hateful towards all the people he was supposed to hate and Probably a Bernie supporter. (I had to put that in there), but does not dislike HRC or O'Malley at all. And does not call himself a Christian as that puts me in a group that I have to contact with.

We just have to overcome the naturally to jump on someone who does not believe exactly as you do. That is how the "Evangelican/Pentecostal Christians" are. Even the worst of us are better than they are. Just remember that when you are tempted to alert on someone.

[yardwork]

45. I rarely vote to hide and your post has me thinking that I may never do so again.

You've got a point - hiding another person's post is censorship. It's a way to shame people.

[beveeheart]

48. The last few times I've been asked to be part of the jury

I've declined to participate. Your vote to LEAVE IT ALONE is a good alternative.

[LiberalArkie]

74. I would like to ask people to check their "My Account" to make

sure that "Willing to Serve on Juries " is set to wiling. Also make a small contribution as it increases your chance to serve"

We can turn this around. There are always people of every stripe and belief who are more that willing to bring people down. That is how they get off.

I very seldom agree with Bravenak, but I am willing to lay my life on the line to defend her right to say what she believes.
There are too few people who can rouse people to get upset at something typed on the screen. They have to be defended at all costs.

Just remember that it wasn't the blacks that gave citizenship to the blacks, it was old white men who just felt it wrong.
It was not women who gave themselves the right to vote, again it was some old white men who just felt it was wrong. Now thank God we have decisions being made by blacks, many other races and women who feel that things are wrong and are trying to right them. It is time to listen.

[Cha]

166. yes, but, it was Blacks, Women, and LGBT Protesters who raised the Awareness to the neccessary

level of enough White Men caring about it.


And, thank you for this, LA.. "I very seldom agree with Bravenak, but I am willing to lay my life on the line to defend her right to say what she believes."

Too bad many more don't agree with that on this board.

[yardwork]

170. Not just raised awareness, but created and implemented strategies that forced whites to act.

As a white person, I wince when other whites point out that "we" "gave" rights to others. The white men standing in the schoolhouse door didn't just hand over rights one day out of the goodness of their hearts. They got out-strategized by brilliant, courageous people like MLK who forced the issue. Sure, some white people helped - rode the freedom buses, registered voters, and some of them got killed too, but the strategy and the courage started within the oppressed group first and it was the millions of black people who fought in their own ways for so long that forced the change.

Same with the women who forced men to share the vote.

And same, on a quieter level, with the gay families who started adopting children and giving birth to children and showing up at PTA meetings and Little League sign-ups and church suppers and said you will honor and accept my children and our family. And that's what ultimately led to marriage equality.

[Cha]

171. Yes exactly, yardwork.. Thank you! I saw that in Selma.. "but created and implemented strategies

that forced whites to act."

African Americans, Women, and LGBT Activists and their allies have been an Amazing Force to be reckoned with for all the reasons you've mentioned and more.

They got shite done and are still going at it strong.. so watch out those who would stand in the way of our progress. You will only lose.

[yardwork]

177. Thanks, Cha.

Were you in Selma with MLK? Wow.

[awoke_in_2003]

77. Declining to participate...

allows for the possibility of a jerk taking your place. That is the only reason I have continued to serve on juries.

[mcar]

103. It's why I serve on every jury

When asked.

[awoke_in_2003]

114. It is the only way I can give back now

I would do another term on MIRT (did it twice) but my star membership lapsed and I need to put some money aside to renew it.

[mhatrw]

101. I think the whole jury system is being abused.

Right wing trolls should get banned. Nasty personal attacks should be hidden. But otherwise, let people have their say.

[yardwork]

43. Hrmjustin has five hides?!

He's one of the nicest, most polite DUers ever.

[awoke_in_2003]

67. hrmjustin?

I know they have targeted seabeyond and KMOD before, but Justin? That should be proof positive.

[greatauntoftriplets]

73. Unbelievable, isn't it?

I think that he'd previously had just a single hide on DU3.

[awoke_in_2003]

91. Yes, unbelievable...

I have had one hide in the last 6 months (I called someone an asshole- it was worth it). I guess I am on more ignore lists than he is

[greatauntoftriplets]

92. I just don't say much.

[tishaLA]

118. seabeyond is on TO AGAIN?

she just got back!

SMDH

[xmas74]

167. So many people on timeout!

I took off for a couple of days and am now coming back to this.

This is crazier than the 2008 primaries and I took off for a couple of years after that.

[steve2470]

12. Addendum: The PoC community is a CORE community within the Democratic Party

So, it's no wonder all of you are being stalked, by racists and/or Republicans/conservatives. Most Republicans and conservatives are racists, not sure of the percentages.

Yea yea, the Democratic Party has its issues, but I still feel it's the best vehicle for social change in the political universe. I'm not downplaying MoveOn and the other groups, but Democrats get things done in Congress and at the POTUS level.

[roguevalley]

14. some guys outed themselves as rapists once and

The owners did nothing when asked. I hope the best for you. I feel your pain.

[steve2470]

15. I remember that

I only remember one guy but more than one ? The guy I remember has been gone for a long time now, so that let the admins off the hook.

I'm a white guy. I feel bad for the PoC.

[Number23]

85. Holy shit. I'm horrified, but shockingly... not all that surprised.

[roguevalley]

115. it was pretty damned awful.

[captainarizona]

24. what is poc?

I have only been on a jury once since I have been here. I got blocked from the bernie thread for the thought crime of suggesting that bernie sanders needs to appeal to minority democrats!

[steve2470]

25. people of color

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color

[Glassunion]

29. People of Color.

You are right about Sanders. Sanders has a long history of supporting our civil rights. However, as of late and before BLM, to me it seemed that he was pushing a one size fits all economic solution. To me that was not necessarily racist on his part, but showing an ignorance to our actual struggle. BLM crashing his events, to me, seemed to be the best thing that could have happened to him. It opened his eyes beyond his core economic plans and led him to finally listen. I dare not post in the Sanders group.

[steve2470]

30. I won't post in the Sanders group either, never have. They would ban me for sure nt

[Glassunion]

34. Facts and opinions differ

Either if presented in a difficult to dispute manner can ruffle feathers.

[steve2470]

35. yes

The Bernie community on DU needs to be open to feedback, suggestions and even constructive criticism of him. He's not perfect, like the rest of us. I'm glad he's gotten better on race issues, but it took BLM to get him there, imho.

[mhatrw]

102. But the problem is that most Sanders supporters need to change.

And that is simply because most white people, no matter how well-meaning they think are are on racial issues, need to change.

When BLM crashed Bernie's events, I got outraged with the most of the rest of Bernie's supporters. I thought it was some sort of organized Clinton/corporate conspiracy to stop Sanders' candidacy in its tracks. I even believed the RW slurs against the demonstrators.

Then I researched BLM and thought about whole issue more. I think many Sanders' supporters like me need to do the same. We need to take our cue from Sanders himself. We need to let BLM supporters take the microphone as long as they want, and we need to listen to what they have to say. Social justice is a huge issue and white people of all stripes, no matter how well meaning, have an almost innate tendency to marginalize the issue. That is wrong. We can no longer live in a society in which the outcomes of governmental and institutional interactions with its citizens on all levels are largely determined by race. Regardless of candidate, this needs to be a Democratic party platform priority.

But I truly think Sanders' supporters just need to consider this issue more deeply and carefully. I feel their hearts are in the right place, but white people just don't like to confront racism in general, and especially not their own. However, if Sanders and I can evolve simply by listening, so can most Sanders supporters. At least that's my hope.

[emsimon33]

26. Unfortunately, it is not just the AA community

But Skinner has not intervened in the other cases, so I doubt he will here.

You would think that on such a communication space, we would embrace discussion and even tolerate our fellow DUers, even when their frustration surfaces.

[steve2470]

27. I'd say the feminist community and Secretary Clinton supporters are, as well nt

[Glassunion]

32. I'd have to agree

[yardwork]

46. Outspoken feminists are constantly alert stalked on DU.

[steve2470]

51. I have seen that, hence why seabeyond is on timeout and why redqueen is gone nt

[yardwork]

62. And partly why Bravenak got a poison pen letter, imo.

Strong black woman, outspoken - upset some fragile egos.

[steve2470]

63. very true nt

[murielm99]

94. One of the things that has always bothered me is that

we need a BOG group at all. For the record, I read there, but do not post.

I have had some criticisms of our President, especially during his first term. I expressed them at home, and to some of my fellow Democrats in the organizations I belong to IRL. We were able to discuss rationally. I never posted a criticism online, or said anything to the repubbies I know IRL. I know what President Obama has been up against.

I think people were driven to set up BOG because some of the criticisms of our Democratic President were going too far. Of course some of it was trolling, but not all!

[Half-Century Man]

28. I think so as well. nt

[abelenkpe]

31. Someone alerted on Skinner yesterday

And accused him of being insensitive to alert stalking

[steve2470]

33. lol

I had to chuckle about that. Honey gets more bees than vinegar.

[Number23]

90. What brave and incredible soul did that??! Please post a link!!!

TIA!!

[abelenkpe]

95. Don't know actually

Was on the jury. Do the results say who alerted? Never check those things or mail...

[Number23]

96. If you could just post the link to the post that was alerted on, that would TOTALLY make my day

Thanks!

[abelenkpe]

97. Yeah sure

Try this:http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=8650

[Number23]

98. Ha!! That totally deserved an alert

I'd give anything to know who did it.

[3catwoman3]

37. What would happen if everyone...

...just declined to serve on juries?

[steve2470]

38. juries would go away and no one would get hidden

If Skinner isn't going to radically reform that system, he needs to bring back the moderators.

[yardwork]

47. Better to serve and always vote to Leave it Alone.

Otherwise the trolls run the juries.

[LiberalArkie]

112. You would have the same situation where a lot of POC have not signed up to vote

and thus they never get called for jury duty. And wonder why it ends up with an all white jury and all white local government. They believed that their vote did not matter. The more good people that end up serving and vote "Leave it alone" the better off everyone will be. To me the only thing that would be better is to have the accusers name on the accusation.

[wyldwolf]

39. The DU well has been poisoned

What I can't figure out is why Skinner hasn't cleaned house and revamped the system.

[steve2470]

40. my guesses

1- Burnout
2- "Too much trouble"
3- Other irons in the fire, like Discussionist, his HRC site, and whatever else he's doing.

[wyldwolf]

86. There is also the issue of juries ...

... Protecting people if they agree with the message. MAJOR copyright violation in the primary forum that has apparently survived a jury.

[awoke_in_2003]

49. I think the admins should start looking into alert histories

I know another favorite tactic of these people are to get around the alert system by sending threatening PMs. I think that if someone gets a threatening PM, they should start a thread and post the text of threatening PMs, along with the sender, in it. It is time to start shining light on the roaches.

[kath]

53. many of the assertions made in this thread are not backed up by the facts

(As well as similar assertions often made in other threads as well):

A post from Earl G this morning:

1. The problem is perception, not the reality of the situation

Here are the jury stats from the last 24 hours.

Total alerts sent: 24
Total number of hides: 3

Distribution:
General Discussion: 10 alerts (2 hides)
General Discussion: Primaries: 7 alerts (1 hide)
Latest Breaking News: 4 alerts
Bernie Sanders Group: 1 alert
Ask The Administrators: 1 alert
Israel/Palestine Group: 1 alert
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12598660


Skinner also posted alert stats from a week or two back, will try to find those.

[steve2470]

55. I disagree, and so does the PoC community

Good day.

[Cali_Democrat]

54. Jury Results:

Mail Message
On Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:40 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

This community is being alert-stalked
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118725800

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is nothing but shit-stirring meta. It's pitting group against group, and calling out admin. If you read ATA, you'd know that admin says this is BS, and they repeatedly support that with statistics on alerts.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:45 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Alerting on shit stirring is not alert stalking, and II agree with the alerter that this post is shit stirring.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The African American community on DU is indeed being alert stalked by some of Bernie's white supporters who are angry that blacks aren't falling in line behind Saint Bernard.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This whining and accusing people of awful stuff without evidence has to stop. Shut this down.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hosts of safe haven groups can decide if meta is allowed in the group.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[steve2470]

61. yep I knew it

I guess PoC and all we white allies need to shut up and be good little worshippers.

[Cha]

136. Glad you skidded, Steve! The Alerter doesn't like "shit-stirrers" unless they're doing it.

[steve2470]

137. thank you, and I agree

People need to start using trash thread, trash group, ignore poster, etc.... I EXPECT shit-shitting on DU. Call me cynical, but I do. I do my best not to take the bait and react.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

157. Imagine if all you could do was block from your own view.....

Some people would do it until they went blind.

[yardwork]

65. "Shut this down." That sums it up.

Same message as in the letter to Bravenak.

[NuclearDem]

81. Irony must be lost on the alerter...

[Number23]

93. Geee... I wonder who could have sent that alert???!

[Cha]

134. Thank you, Cali! Juror #4 speaks the truth!

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The African American community on DU is indeed being alert stalked by some of Bernie's white supporters who are angry that blacks aren't falling in line behind Saint Bernard.

The Alerter doesn't like Shit-Stirring unless they're doing it.

[MrScorpio]

206. How ironic. nt

[Mosby]

59. not according to the admins

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12598660

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12598513

[steve2470]

66. eh I disagree nt

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

71. Yes and no.

If you're looking simply at total number of alerts, total number of hides, then sure, it's low.

Because 'alert stalking' does not mean 'omg, every single post by so and so gets alerted on'. It means every single post by that person gets carefully scrutinized by troll(s) and IF they think they can squeeze a hide out, they alert on it. Since most posts by most people don't contain anything even remotely alertable, total numbers of alerts WILL remain low, even if certain people are being targeted. It's a gradual war of attrition, not a blitzkrieg.

[kath]

72. Thanks, Mosby. That 2nd link you gave contains the alert stats that I referred to in my post above:

Thanks for helping me find that. Turns out it was posted by EarlG, on Aug. 31:

3. Here are some stats that I compiled last Friday

(So these were accurate for the 24-hour period between last Thursday afternoon and last Friday afternoon.)

34 alerts were sent in the last 24 hours.

Of the 34 alerts sent, 11 resulted in a hide. The other 23 were left alone.

Most of the alerts occurred during the daytime. Between midnight and 8am ET, only four alerts were sent and only one of those resulted in a hide.

The 34 alerts were sent by 29 individual alerters. 25 alerters sent one alert. Three alerters sent two alerts. One alerter sent three alerts.

The 34 alerts were sent on 31 individuals. 28 people were alerted on once. Three people were alerted on twice.

Of the three people alerted on twice, only one was alerted on twice by the same alerter. (Neither alert resulted in a hide.) The other two people who were alerted on twice were new members, both of whom were subsequently banned by MIRT.

The total number of alerts is a little on the low side compared to some days -- if there is a big contentious issue under discussion we can sometimes be in the 50-60 range (which still means that more than 99.5% of all posts are never alerted on). But overall these stats are pretty typical. I just glanced at the stats for the last 24 hours and there have been 33 alerts and 10 hides.

[steve2470]

190. Let's see, several members of the AA group are on hide....

Last edited Tue Sep 15, 2015, 09:33 AM - Edit history (2)

Funny how the AA community gets all these hides and timeouts. Funny how outspoken feminists get hides and timeouts.

I see the pattern, clear as day. Shut up, sit down, worship the correct god, and don't make waves, or else. Don't you dare address a perception of a GROUP of people, which does not necessarily include a member of that group who feels annoyed or angry at your words. I'm a white man, and white men have been genocidal maniacs to Native Americans and PoC. That doesn't hurt my feelings one bit, because, you see, I'm not a genocidal maniac. So, I don't take it personally. I think people take comments about groups way too personally. I used to take unkind comments about the southern USA personally, but no longer. I'm one of the good ones who live here.

I don't expect perfection from anyone, and I don't see compelling reasons for their time-outs.

I think we disagree. Good evening.

[randys1]

193. This conversation is as stupid as "Obama's election means racism is over in USA" conversation.

Is racism still a major factor in USA?
Yes

Is all racism done by the group in power?
Yes

Is DU overrun by white people who lecture Black people about what is good for them?
Yes

Is DU overrun by alleged Bernie supporters who do almost nothing but attack Hillary?
Yes

Are Black and their white supporters constantly targeted with alerts for any and all remarks that make *some white folks uncomfortable?

DUH

*Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all
Some, not all

[steve2470]

204. +1 nt

[Cha]

135. So? According to this it is..

It is all there.. all the language I've seen except for such explicit threats that would get the poster banned if he had the guts to post it on DU.

"We grew tired of your race baiting bullshit against the only candidate who actually cares about the plight of minorities and the 99%. You and your fucking lying "I really like Bernie" bullshit. So you got 4 hides in one day. You deserved more.

When you come off suspension, you keep running your fucking mouth, guaranteed you're going to get alerted on and suspended again. We'll make a point of it. There's a hell of a lot more of us than of you. So I suggest you dial it back a whole fucking bunch.

GO BERNIE!!!"

Mr Citizen
DU Member

1StrongBlackMan http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=24424

[Mosby]

175. I dont want to get into my own personal views with the jury system

I have let the admins know my opinions and continue to do so as needed. One small observation though:

I just served on a jury that was a clear personal attack and yet the results are not in yet. Someone is holding back their vote so the poster can get in a few more replies Imo.

Eta: 23 minutes for a 7-0 hide.

[kath]

69. Skinner posted this the other day, in response to "I'm getting concerned about suspensions in the

African American group": (I will X out the name of the poster being discussed, as I think Skinner's comments apply generally)
1. XXXXXX is a smart person.

He knew he had 4 hides, and he knew that one more would lead to a suspension. Despite that, he went ahead and posted: "Idiot and Bernie supporter are not necessarily exclusive descriptors."

When he posted that, he knew that he was likely to get a 5th hide, and a suspension, but he did it anyway. That post was his choice.

There are currently a very small number of people who are on suspension for five hides. Two thirds of them (including XXXX) are people who have been previously suspended for five hides and know exactly how the system works. They are people of all different races, genders, and sexual orientations. They are supporters of Sanders and Clinton, and people who don't support any candidate. The one thing these people with multiple suspensions have in common is that they did not appear to make any effort to change their behavior. That is their choice.

But let me be clear: The people with multiple suspensions (and even people with just one suspension) are EXTREME outliers. They represent a fraction of a fraction of DU members. The vast majority of DU members are able to participate here without ever coming close to that 5-hide threshold. And the reason they never come close to being suspended is because they are making an effort to be civil, non-disruptive, even positive members of the community. It really isn't hard to do, but you have to actually try.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12598641

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

75. That seems sort of 'blame the victim'-y.

Do you actually think he SHOULD have gotten a hide for that comment? I know I don't.

It's not a direct insult of anyone on site, but a statement of logic. Because it certainly is possible, (and mathematically no doubt a certainty) that some Bernie supporters ARE idiots. And I say that as a Bernie supporter. Every candidate out there probably has some idiots supporting them.

In which case, the problem lies with the alerter, not the comment. If you say 'He should have changed his behaviour' in re the commenter, what you're really saying is 'Live within the unjust status quo.' Which is a hell of a thing to say to any black person. Just like we should be fighting to prevent unjust police from using the system to beat up and kill black people, we should be fighting to prevent unjust cyberbullies from using the system to virtually beat up and banish black voices from the site.

[yardwork]

80. I read that, and I disagree with Skinner.

The posts that 1SBM had hidden were far milder than stuff that never gets hidden on DU. And explain to me how hrmjustin - one of the nicest, most polite DUers of all time - has 5 hides?

I'm going to go look up this hides. I bet I won't be impressed.

[Cha]

148. So what. Skinner didn't take into account 1StrongBlackMan's other posts that got hidden .. that

was only part of the story.

They were bogus hides.. by alert stalkers.

[Bobbie Jo]

174. Exactly

You just can't tell this story with random stats.

Good point.

[Starry Messenger]

179. I disagree with him vociferously.

[Chitown Kev]

76. I posted some stuff in an LGBT thread

that, while somewhat complementary to Senator Sanders, treated him more as a "mere politician" rather than a civil rights diva and that thread was locked.

There is an organized effort here to shut down any discussion of Sanders that is in any way critical.

[steve2470]

78. yep

I really like Sanders, but he has two big problems (which I know just saying it will get me severely scolded):

1- the lack of adequate PoC support. Secretary Clinton has GREAT PoC support.
2- the fact that he has self-identified as a democratic socialist.

Problem #1: It's a fact that a Democrat CANNOT get elected POTUS without significant AA support. Just having whites, Latinos, Asians and other groups alone won't do it. No way no how. If he can't raise his numbers in the AA community, he's toast in the GE.

Problem #2: Yea yea yea, all we smart folks on DU know what a DS is, and we aren't scared of it. Your average low information voter ? OMGWTFCOMMUNIST!!!! That combined with the Republicans spells defeat. He MUST overcome that ignorance barrier. You better believe the Republicans are going to hammer relentlessly on the ignorance factor and outright lie about it and use every Goebbels trick in the book. Yea yea yea, young people aren't so scared of socialism, but young people under 30, in general, have a really bad habit of NOT voting. Older and middle-aged people vote in much higher percentages.

I know I just pissed off 90% of this board, but that's what I believe. Not going to get into pissing matches or nasty ass arguments about it. You disagree with me, cool. I've been around politics long enough that I'm pretty confident of my opinions.

[yardwork]

83. I agree. Well said.

[mhatrw]

107. Of course those are his two big problems. But all things are relative.

Overall, he's the best candidate on the issues, by far, and he's the only candidate who is not completely bankrolled by corporate interests and the 1%.

So the question for me becomes, how can he and we overcome these two big problems?

For many of Sanders' DU supporters, the first problem is not a real issue. Because they cannot see the landscape from the point of view of POC, they cannot fathom how POC cannot see that Bernie would be the best candidate for them.

For many of Clinton's DU supporters, these are not problems to be overcome, but wedges to be exploited to their favored candidates gain. That is completely understandable, if you think your favored candidate is the better choice for whatever reason.

But is playing this gambit along with Ciinton's supporters actually helping BLM's cause? Wouldn't it help BLM more to use this opportunity to engage and educate Sanders supporters, even painfully obtuse supporter like me? Most of us are guilty only of white privilege. We think that we hate racism, but we are simply not yet willing or able to see racism from the point of view of the victims of racism. So why not use this as an opportunity to educate to unite rather than an opportunity to exploit to divide?

[steve2470]

109. it's really simple to me

Bernie needs to spend tons of time immersing himself in the PoC community. Of course, he can't totally neglect the rest of the electorate, but he has a lot of catching up to do.

As far as DS goes, he needs to start directly educating people in EVERY speech and interview about who he is. He needs to fully embrace that label or renounce it forcefully. It's that simple. He cannot run away from this issue. The Republicans damn sure won't. He either embraces and educates constantly, or renounces it.

[mhatrw]

116. I agree. If not, he is setting himself up to lose.

But I don't see how Clinton's POC credentials are much deeper than astroturf, either.

Bill Clinton "reformed" welfare to benefit the fastfood industry and did almost nothing to decelerate the AA incarceration rate. So why does Hillary Clinton get a free pass?

[steve2470]

117. shrug

Most people are pretty ignorant voters. That's how Nixon, Reagan, and both Bushes got elected. You appeal to that voting bloc to win elections. Sad but true. Call me cynical but that's the way it is.

eta: You probably need to go into GD or GDP and address these concerns to her supporters. If you go to her protected group, they might not be too fond of you. Good luck.

[bettyellen]

182. you are missing something important here- it is on Sanders and his supporters to do the work.

BLM is not playing a gambit for Hillary. The support in the black community was already supporting Clinton, it is really completely on Sander's campaign to change that. Many seem too resentful to even COPE with that information, let alone be good advocates.
How many times have we heard shit like "isn;t that enough for them?" here? Alienating.

[mhatrw]

185. Yeah, many Sanders' supporters need to be educated.

But did you hear Sanders' speech in Greensboro today?

He called for an end of all institutional racism (in those exact words), and those words were cheered by thousands.

He listed the names of a number of unarmed African Americans who had been killed by the police, and he said any policeman who breaks the law, just like any other public servant who breaks the law, must be held accountable.

Again, it is just a start. But it's a pretty good start.

[Number23]

100. Would love for you to post your OP in this thread or in this forum.

[Chitown Kev]

106. I'll consider it

[betsuni]

120. One thing I wish they'd stop doing is assuming that anyone who has the slightest...

concern about Sanders is a Clinton supporter (horrors!) even if the person has never said who they support. As if there are only two possibilities and it's impossible to like Sanders and yet have a criticism or two. It's weird.

[PeaceNikki]

183. This while thread completely describes how I feel.

Any criticism of Sanders is seen as support of Clinton.

Amy discussion about him being out of touch with women or PoC is seen as ignorance and/ or hate.

I'm so sick of it.

[JI7]

187. that's because much of the support for Sanders among certain ones is more about hatred of Hillary

obama and other democrats and just the party overall.

[Cha]

152. Wow, Chitown.. No negative stuff about BS Ever.

[zappaman]

154. And these are the same folks who denigrate the BOG for "hero worship"

[steve2470]

156. +1 nt

[Cha]

163. Yeah, it's not alright if we support President Obama with passion.. we were called every name

in the book. And, I never alerted on any of them, either.

That was then.. But NOW..

BS supporters alert on any fact that doesn't put their candidate in the best light. The hypocrisy is pathetic, zappa

[betsuni]

169. Yup. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

158. Your posts had nothing to do with why that thread was locked.

I am a host of the LGBT group. It was not locked to "shut down discussion of Sanders that was critical" especially given the OP was not in the least bit critical, it was "shut down" because there is no desire for LGBT to become GD: P -LGBT. It is explained by the lead host in this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/113746014

[Chitown Kev]

161. I can undersand your rationale

and I apologize for the false accusation.

[Behind the Aegis]

162. Not at all a problem.

BTW, take a look at the first post, which was mentioned as being the reason for being locked.

[mcar]

104. K&R

[6chars]

105. Let people speak K&R

[steve2470]

119. Heaven05 and giftedgirl77 were also put on timeout, wow

It's worse than I thought.

[betsuni]

121. K&R

[yardwork]

122. I glanced at GD-P tonight, and I got mad.

Take a look. Most of the OP thread titles are worse than the posts that got people suspended.

[steve2470]

123. I know

If you're a woman, a PoC, a Hillary supporter, or Jewish, it seems to be open season at DU. That's my impression.

[yardwork]

124. Btw, you were just alerted on in the BOG.

I'll post the results when I see them.

[steve2470]

125. ok thanks nt

[yardwork]

126. It's your new OP there.

I don't have the jury results yet.

[steve2470]

127. yea, I kinda figured that might draw an alert

This alert business is getting out of hand.

[yardwork]

128. Left alone 6-1. I posted jury results in the thread and below. I was #2.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Sat Sep 12, 2015, 09:53 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

BARACK OBAMA GROUP: *shakes my head*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110230998

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is another continuation of a hidden post in a protected group. This is an abuse of the protected group to engage in board flame wars. These board wars make DU suck. This post links to a hidden post which was hidden because it was a continuation of a hidden post, but in a protected group.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Sep 12, 2015, 10:04 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Bullshit alerts make DU suck.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Totally bullslhit alert.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: If this is a way to continue a hidden post, it deserves to be hidden.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[steve2470]

129. yea I saw that, thank you

I got my frustration out of my system, so I'll self delete it. I won't post anything like that again.

[yardwork]

130. DU says it was a fine OP!

[steve2470]

131. oh...sigh

I feel like we're expected to walk on eggshells to avoid any alerts. I'm going to be civil and polite as humanly possible, but I'm kinda done walking on eggshells. Thank you again.

[yardwork]

176. I was pretty much lurking until all this nonsense brought me out.

I confronted one of DU's more popular spokespeople a week or so ago, and confronted him again in his long thread on Friday. I called him a bully and am surprised that my post wasn't hidden, but it's such a long and contentious thread, maybe my post was overlooked.

I looked at hrmjustin's hides and I see how angry he became. I'm not walking on eggshells. If I get hides for saying the truth, so be it.

[zappaman]

145. 2 failed alerts on me tonight!

Looks like someone, or some group, is bored tonight and thought they'd prove your OP right!

[steve2470]

149. sigh, I had two failed alerts on me today too

I have a feeling I now have a target on my back.

[zappaman]

150. It's flattering!

[murielm99]

168. You are not supposed to SAY that!

People have been criticized for regarding TOs as a badge of honor.

[Lyric]

181. I don't see how this can be called a protected space

when the jury system is being used to victimize people who post here.

It makes me sick.

[tishaLA]

184. I'm sickened by what's happening to this group

Number 23 has to lock another thread because of the alert stalking (that doesn't exist), Starry Messenger and Steve2470 get posts hidden....it's just disgusting.

Who will be the next to join the desaparacidos?

[zappaman]

188. There were 2 failed ones on me last night.

Steve2470 had a couple as well.
But there is no alert stalking in this forum.

[Bobbie Jo]

186. Wow

I just watched what happened here.

Unfuckungbelievable.

Clearly, this is A-OK with the owners of this site. They are determined to shut you down by any means at their disposal.

Quite the fiefdom they have here.

[struggle4progress]

189. Looking at how many have temporarily disappeared, I have to agree

[mhatrw]

191. I had three failed alerts on me today.

And, sadly, I can't say the reason they all failed was not because of white privilege.

[Chitown Kev]

195. Back from my timeout!

Good afternoon, everyone.

[Spazito]

196. Welcome back!

[Starry Messenger]

198. Hey! Glad you see you back!

[steve2470]

201. welcome back, sir, good to have you back! nt

[MrScorpio]

202. Welcome back, Cuz

Glad to see you!

[steve2470]

200. For the record...

Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2015, 10:49 AM - Edit history (1)

I do not do any alerts on anyone insulting me, getting ultra-snarky, etc. I might put you on ignore, but I don't do alerts. As God is my witness, that's the truth.

Only mirt-able trolls and clear personal attacks are alert-worthy to me, but I'm not going to alert on you. However, someone else might. If I disagree intensely with you, I'm damn sure not going to alert on you, unless you say something racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. If you're a HRC supporter or Chaffee supporter or O'Malley supporter, it's all good. Let's be civil and promote our candidates POSITIVELY.

tl,dr: I'm doing my very best not to touch the alert button, and I have not alerted on anyone in days.

[steve2470]

207. more evidence of alert stalking, imho

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=27401

[cstanleytech]

208. I asked skinner if alert stalking is happening and he point blank said there zero evidence

that supports the claims that its happening.
If you dont want to believe him thats your choice.