I don't feel safe on Democratic Underground anymore

[Coolest Ranger]

************** For the African American Group *********************************

As a person of color, I don't feel safe in posting to Democratic Underground any more.
I feel like our voices are being silenced. I do not know who is targeting us. So many of us and our allies are being taken off this page. This needs to stop. For the foreseeable future, I will be lurking on this forum. I will come back once the Administrators promise to do something about this situation and I feel safe enough to post here. Until then, I am out of here. Sheshe, if you see this, I have given you my cell phone number feel free to contact me when you see this.

Until then, stay safe my fellow people of color as well as our allies. I love you all

[boston bean]

1. It has been pointed out time and time again that the system here on DU is majority rule.

That never works well for the discriminated against, black persons, women etc.

As host of HoF, and other feminists groups here tried to get admin to recognize the non=phenomena of minorities being trampled on this democratic site and the answer was to educate the buffoons. Placed the issue square on the shoulders of those being targeted in mean spirited ways.

I understand where you are coming from. But I would not expect to see any changes made to help make this place more welcoming to those who suffer bigotry.

Sad statement, but one I am sorry to say I feel is true.

[blackspade]

23. That was one of the reasons why I was opposed to

Going from 6 to 7 on juries.
Hung juries went the poster's way over the alerter.
The change gave primacy to the alerters.

[MADem]

2. We're on our own.

The admins have taken a hands-off attitude towards the site, unfortunately. Their 'vision' of what they wanted this site to be back in 2001 has pretty much died.

I wish they'd start up a new site for Democrats, for people who like and support the Democratic party, and who save the nasty hyperbole for the GOP, like this place used to be. I'd join that!

I also wish they'd slow the roll on new members, and make it a longer process before they can vote on juries. I think 1000 posts or six months (whichever comes LAST) is long enough to get an idea of the culture here . We've got wingnuts and trolls voting who are thrilled to shit-stir and who haven't read the TOS--as for that, I think to sign up you should have to read and initial every paragraph of the damn thing. We've got people on juries who have no ideas of what our guidelines are about wingnuts, trolls, conspiracy theories, etc. It's insufferable.

If I ruled the world...!!

[boston bean]

3. They created discussionist to give a place to the morons and take some heat off here.

But they just allowed this place to become more and more like freepervile, getting worse over time.

I to long for a site that supports democrats. Sad we lost that.

[SusanCalvin]

81. One thing I will say -

at least (so far) we're being allowed to talk about it. 7.

[boston bean]

83. If a jury allows it we can talk about it all we want. Nothing will be done about it.

Seems no matter how many people say or events happen will help to show there is a problem that needs some correction.

[SusanCalvin]

85. True, it is just us talking.

No attempt at corrective action, or recognition of an ongoing problem, seems to be forthcoming from anyone who could do anything.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. Tipping especially for this...

I will come back once the Administrators promise to do something about this situation and I feel safe enough to post here.

We need real action to be taken on alert-stalking and threats issued toward the AA community on DU, and that action can only be taken by admins. Laissez-faire isn't going to work.

[brer cat]

5. We love you, Coolest Ranger

and certainly understand how you are feeling today. I am heading out to spend a few days with my daughter and granddaughters. I plan to keep DU off and so some thinking about whether to stay. So many of us have become good virtual friends over the years, and it will be sad to walk away.

Take care.

[stonecutter357]

6. K&R!

[redwitch]

7. That sucks.

I know DU has had it's share of battles especially around presidential campaigns. Lately though it has become a hatefest. If we can't treat each other with decency here on DU how do we expect our dreams for a just and peaceful world to come to fruition? The malicious alerting, the snide remarks, the hateful private messages, the stalking here and apparently in the non virtual world has got to stop.

I am so sad that you no longer feel safe here.

[Bubzer]

21. +1

[leftofcool]

8. Most of the HRC supporters are leaving as well.

We have other places to go where we are safe. They can have Bernie Underground for all I care as long as they keep their fucking snail mail out of my mail box.

[retrowire]

40. seeking out other echo chambers?

leaving DU only makes it more Bernie dominant. if you have a problem with the majority of your party supporting Bernie on DU then either accept it or continue trying to convince others that Hillary is the better choice.

I swear, politics are all about making decisions, wise ones. and you don't make the best decisions in an echo chamber, that's why the people on capital hill are so out of touch with the rest of us, they only see each other and the 1%.

so stay, learn, teach and fight.

[boston bean]

45. Are you being targeted and harassed, and bombarded with rw smears you could read at Red State?

[retrowire]

47. not me personally no.

are you?

or is your candidate being targeted just like mine?

all I'm trying to say is, this is a part of the process. emotions are high. and leaving or turning away or denying conversation weakens that which makes democracy work in the first place.

[boston bean]

50. You will know when it happens to you. You will feel it. You will get a taste.

Until it does, maybe try to understand that leaving sometimes is the best.

[retrowire]

51. oh I'm not against people taking a break.

just remain vocal. don't give up and be open to disagreement. that's all I'm saying.

[Hortensis]

62. I recommend gardening. My garden always makes me happy when the outside world gets unpleasant.

[boston bean]

66. Why the hell not. others are intent on making this Bernie central. To the extend of targeting etc.

So, that doesn't fly for me. I'm not looking for an echo chamber. I would like to speak with adults who act a bit more mature.

[boston bean]

67. Why did you just completely edit your post to me? Doesn't even say something close to what you typed

originally?

[SusanCalvin]

93. Thank you for documenting that. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. "if you have a problem with the majority of your party supporting Bernie "

Except on DU, show me any national poll that says: "the majority of your party supporting Bernie"? Please provide that poll. Thanks.

[retrowire]

54. ok so that was a broad statement

it is just on DU, the rest of the party is coming around I believe. I'll correct that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

55. I dont' see any indication that your last statement is true either. Correct that also.

[retrowire]

56. which one? n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

59. "the rest of the party is coming around I believe"? n/t

[leftofcool]

69. That is the point. We no longer care about Bernie Underground.

[retrowire]

70. then go elsewhere if it benefits you

it just means that those you oppose have won.

and that's bad for du because it creates an unnatural bias.

[leftofcool]

76. It benefits us quite well.

I will break this to you gently, DU is not the only Democratic forum on the internet.

[retrowire]

77. yeah but it's the only forum were talking about in this conversation so... n/t

[leftofcool]

79. Yeah, but no one in this forum gives a darn what others think about us or our forums.

[Bobbie Jo]

108. I don't know...

Maybe it's because some of us have been around longer than 3 months. To be told "go elsewhere" after having been around for a number of years seems pretty presumptuous to me.

[brush]

103. It's not the majority of the party supporting Sanders on DU

There might be a majority of DUers supporting Sanders here but that hardly means the majority of dems support Sanders as DU is a just a small sampling of dems.

Your wording needs a bit of editing.

[retrowire]

104. read it again.

I edited it to clarify that wording yesterday.

[brush]

105. Sorry to nitpick

I'm an old newspaper person. The wording still seems to suggest that the majority of dems support Sanders.

if you have a problem with the majority of your party supporting Bernie on DU then either accept it or continue trying to convince others that Hillary is the better choice.

Shouldn't that read something like: ". . . the majority of DUers supporting Bernie" since DU is not the majority of the party?

[retrowire]

106. nitpick away

the ending of the sentence clarifies that majority of the party supporting Bernie belongs to DU, and not outside it.

it's a matter of perspective. but my intent is just that. I meant only DU.

[kjones]

112. AHAHAHA!!! "Echo chamber" says the DU Bernie supporter

[Stellar]

9. I feel the same way, lots of luck to you. n/t

[retrowire]

10. why not stay and fight?

message the admins!

[allan01]

11. where is skinner in all this ? shouldnt he be running this board as chief admin/

[Tarheel_Dem]

53. Until yesterday, I would have agreed with you, but then I read a post where Skinner says he has

an Ignore list. Maybe he has trashed this group, and some of it's members? I've left questions in the ATA forum, months apart, and he hasn't responded to either of them.

If the Admins are ignoring posters, maybe they really don't know, or care, what's happening here, and that's just sad.

[SusanCalvin]

82. It's also irresponsible. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

84. Although I understand the need to ignore some members, because I've done it myself. But, I'm just..

not sure how one administers a site like this if you have certain members on ignore. It certainly helps explain why we're in the predicament we're in right now.

[SusanCalvin]

92. If the people making money off this site

have anyone or anything on ignore, they are seriously messed up. And irresponsible.

I don't know that they do. I just a) say "if" and b) find it appalling if they do and c) feel it would explain a lot of things.

[Tarheel_Dem]

101. I didn't make it up. If I were an administrator, and felt the need to use ignore, I'd just boot 'em.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=8615

[randys1]

109. wow...that surprises me

But he could ignore everyone if he just did what all message boards do, assign moderators.

You have 5 or 6 admins and 20-30 moderators for a place this big.

The admins make final decisions about banning, but mods can suspend short times, hide, etc.

The key is all the admins and mods will be LIBERALS

duh

[Tarheel_Dem]

110. Let's be honest, the Admins probably don't make a great deal of money on this group. There are so..

few of us left. So, I can understand, from a business standpoint. However, it just strikes me as strange when you look at posts in ATA that have been sitting there for months, unanswered. Are these people on ignore? Could another admin address the questions? Does it have to be Skinner? Lots of questions, but he doesn't respond to me in ATA.

[vlyons]

12. Are you kidding me? You don't feel "safe?"

Do you think someone is going to crawl thru the internet and jump out of your computer screen and shoot you? Feeling that your voice is not acknowledged is one thing, but "safe?" Goodness, that seems like such a strange fear to me. Sounds like you have a low tolerance for opinions different from your own.

[leftofcool]

13. Are you shitting me?

[murielm99]

14. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

Someone DID jump out of their computer screen and send a threatening letter to a member here via snail mail. That means they know her name and address.

I understand people not feeling safe.

[jwirr]

20. Excatly, Bravenak has been targeted in her home by

stalkers sending her a hate letter.

I do have one question: Is most of this trouble originating in the jury system only? Or are there other threats being made on DU?

If it is the jury system only then it is up to the administration to fix this.

[leftofcool]

25. There have been some other things.

I wouldn't count on admin.

[DonCoquixote]

61. the one detail that letter shows

is that "Mr. Citizen" brags about how he and his friends have RIGGED the jury system. The fact someone is bold enough to risk a federal crime bragging about somethign that many admins have been trying to IGNORE says something.

[jwirr]

80. Okay, thank you. I saw the letter but my eyesight is

not the greatest so I could not read all of it.

This sounds like something Skinner and Earl need to look into and I cannot imagine that they are not doing just that. Especially since this letter has come to light.

[artislife]

99. What about getting unsolicited emails through DU

I had two the other night from someone who is known to do that. That was just wrong. Their name has been auto removed and I wasn't able to let the admins know, because apparently they sent other emails that night.


We all need to take a collective breath. I got caught in a couple of swarms and now I may reply once or twice to the same poster, but I know that I have to walk away and not get in the last word. Because that becomes a problem when both posters are trying to do that.

[WinkyDink]

26. And we would know this how? I read here daily and never saw anything about this.

[leftofcool]

42. You can read

[sheshe2]

87. Several are at the top of the page.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118724750

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118724694

There are links there as well.

[Snotcicles]

28. How does someone get that kinda of information from DU? nt

[Glassunion]

36. Her real name was in an image link.

[840high]

38. But her real name

was not used on the envelope. Her lp name was used.

[Glassunion]

41. How do you know that? The letter was titled with her DU name, no mention of what was on the envelope

Does not matter. Using her real name, the coward that sent the letter was able to get her physical address and mail her a letter.

[840high]

58. I meant to say on the letter - addressed

to Bravenak.

[Bobbie Jo]

46. What difference does that make?

The freak has her address.

[jeff47]

39. By piecing together information from their posts.

As a quick example of how to do this:
You make a post mentioning you live in a particular city. That greatly narrows down where to look.

You mention some other events from your personal life. For example, "Here's me shaking hands with _________!! I'm so stoked!!" with a link to a newspaper article. That lists your actual name in the caption of the photo.

Unless you have a common enough name, it is likely that there will only be one person with that name in that city. So now you turn to various records searches (like the whitepages, property tax records, etc) and you will have one hit. With an address.

The actual path is obviously different for every person, since we all post different stuff. But it's probably possible to identify anyone on DU who has been posting for a while.

If you want to get a rough guess about how easy this is, put your name and city into google and see what comes up. It will probably start with some Facebook links that don't really reveal anything, but there may be something more specific further down.

[snagglepuss]

78. It could have been a setup to trash Bernie suppoerters or sow discord from

that other site. The poster had her real name on her blog so anyone could have sent that letter.

[Lucky Luciano]

16. If you don't know...

Someone was sent a threatening letter in snail mail from a supposed Bernie supporter.

Definitely not cool.

[lark]

32. That's the thing.

Are some of these really Bernie or HRC supporters or are they trolls, just trying to discourage Dems? It's always heated during the primaries and much better once a general election candidate is confirmed.
I do think this time it seems worse, more vitriolic, and not sure why?

[GoneFishin]

94. Who fits the profile of someone likely to do this, a right wing Republican or a Bernie supporter?

It's too vitriolic to come from a voter attracted to a candidate like Bernie who is all about fairness and equality.

That person is a right wing Republican troll.

[lark]

100. Sure looks, sounds, feels that way.

Using the duck test, this passes on all elements.

[NuclearDem]

18. Piss off.

[awoke_in_2003]

91. +1000. nt

[vkkv]

27. I'm with vlyons, I have never seen one single threat to anyone here...

Now, at HuffPo and / or HRC central, there are some extremely mean and narrow-minded comment posters.

D.U. is downright comfy! D.U. even has a jury system to keep it fair and clean..

[Glassunion]

37. A DU member was mailed a threatening to her home address.

[Starry Messenger]

44. ***Well, now you know. I just blocked vlyons, and I'm warning you*** READ ALL

And anyone else who didn't read the group's SOP (pinned at the top of this group) and the warning the OP was kind enough to put in his message--if you come in here to be unkind and unsupportive, I will be blocking.

Read the other threads in the group for background, if you need to catch up.

--AA Group Host

[JustAnotherGen]

52. Af Am Group Host Discussion

There was no need for that post -

I would agree with a block.

Here is the text for our record of the reason why:

Star Member vkkv (686 posts)

29. Possibly the oddest posts I've ever read here.


Silenced?
Targeted?

D.U. was one of the earliest places to bring discredit to bad cops and racist P.D.s!
What on EARTH are you talking about?!

WTF?

[Starry Messenger]

57. Especially after the OP put a clear message at the top of his post

which is a signal that it is posted in a safe space.

[JustAnotherGen]

60. Posters other post - this post is by an AF AM Group Host

We've had the drop a bomb, insult, be disruptive posts before that then get deleted:

In the discussion thread: I don't feel safe on Democratic Underground anymore [View all]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Response to Coolest Ranger (Original post)

Thu Sep 10, 2015, 01:34 PM

Star Member vkkv (687 posts)

29. Possibly the oddest posts I've ever read here.






Silenced?
Targeted?

D.U. was one of the earliest places to bring discredit to bad cops and racist P.D.s!
What on EARTH are you talking about?!

WTF?

[Starry Messenger]

73. AA Group Host Discussion--here's a link to my copy/paste of vkkv's last and final post in here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=25075

[Starry Messenger]

43. Bye.

I'm not warning first on this one.

[JustAnotherGen]

48. Post by AA GROUP HOST - PLEASE READ

As this poster was blocked by a co-host this afternoon - please do not respond to his post anymore.

For the Group Host Team -

vlyons (911 posts)

12. Are you kidding me? You don't feel "safe?"

Do you think someone is going to crawl thru the internet and jump out of your computer screen and shoot you? Feeling that your voice is not acknowledged is one thing, but "safe?" Goodness, that seems like such a strange fear to me. Sounds like you have a low tolerance for opinions different from your own.

[Starry Messenger]

72. AA Group Host--posting the post that got this poster blocked after his warning.

Vylons wrote:: "" Sounds like you have a low tolerance for opinions different from your own. ""

Vylons could NOT have said it any clearer, nor more accurately, nor more presciently.

Presciently - definition of


Democracy and freedom of speech are not in your dictionary, but unreason, paranoia, fear are high-lighted in bold.
Got it.

[LanternWaste]

74. Must be weird to believe that a post on a message board

Must be weird to believe that a post in a safe haven group on a message board being blocked is indicative of one's knowledge of democracy and free speech. Indeed, it's your fallacious premise which leads me to believe you yourself possess a most dramatic lack of awareness of what those concepts mean.

Bless your little heart.

[sheshe2]

95. Sorry, my bad.

Thought you were talking to jag.

Deleting.

[JustAnotherGen]

75. You just called me

Unreasonable


Paranoid - Personal Attack

Fear

I'm so glad my CO HOST banned you!

Bye sweet heart.

Make sure you alert on me calling you 'sweet heart' after you attacked me with 'paranoid'.

Let's see who has the thicker skin here . . .

[sheshe2]

86. I think you need to educate yourself...

As to what has happened here in the last 2 days.

Also, not your place to tell a member of AA how they should or should not feel. Ha! Guess what, that is one of the reasons they are leaving. They are TOLD how to feel and how they SHOULD REACT!

You are simply tone deaf.

[murielm99]

15. I hope you stay.

We need everyone so that we can make this site a good place again.

[RoccoR5955]

17. Can I ask you something?

You say that you will lurk until the Admins promise to do something about the situation. What is it exactly that you propose they do?
I do understand where you are coming from, but if you just ask for someone to do something, without proposing what that something is, it makes it hard to do anything, because nobody knows exactly what you expect to be done.
Yeah, I know that there are some things that we should have common sense to know about, but, without you putting them in words, not everyone knows what they are, and they have a tendency to get overlooked.
So if you could be more specific in what you are expecting from the Admins here, I am sure that they would find it more helpful.

Solidarity Forever.
Stay safe my friend.

[leftofcool]

31. I think this is being done privately

It really doesn't matter at this point.

[randys1]

65. The something starts with immediate suspension of juries and appointing moderators, then warn ALL

members not to post links to their image accounts like photobucket, because that is how real bad people can find out about you and stalk you...

[BlueMTexpat]

19. I empathize with where you are coming

from in many ways. I am not a person of color, but I am a woman and I believe that other posts above me have expressed a lot of what we both have seen and experienced as "minorities" - whether numerically, racially, or historically.

Please don't leave! I know that I myself don't visit as often as I used to because I get so tired of seeing supposed Democrats constantly slinging the worst aspersions and motives at the person who is the best all-round candidate for 2016 - and one of the best qualified ever for President - in a misguided attempt to persuade me that their candidate is the best. Such tactics will never persuade me. They merely discredit those posters so far as I am concerned and I won't waste my time with them any more.

The constant repetition of RW and GOPer talking points here has worn me down, however, whether it be those posted about Hillary or whether it be deliberate efforts to misinterpret the #BlackLives Matter movement.

You have much more support than you may know.

[blackspade]

22. After Bravenak's letter, I don't blame you.

The hostility toward the AA community at DU is out of hand.

[gordianot]

24. As much as it saddens me I understand.

I am not a person of color but have learned much here. Your voice will be missed. This is one of the few places in my world I communicate with persons of color or for that matter fellow Democrats. The area I reside is a hotbed of white ignorant (uneducated) reactionary racist Republican pseudo Christian fundamentalist hate I am a Sanders supporter and on DU I only view safely that group from a distance. I empathize.

[vkkv]

29. Possibly the oddest posts I've ever read here.

Silenced?
Targeted?

D.U. was one of the earliest places to bring discredit to bad cops and racist P.D.s!
What on EARTH are you talking about?!

WTF?

[leftofcool]

33. Try reading a few AA posts.

[randys1]

34. If you dont know FIND OUT, instead of criticizing. Surely you know by now, I assume

[lib87]

68. If You're Genuinely Curious, Research this Group

Read the posts and learn instead of criticizing and denying there is a problem.

Good luck.

[McCamy Taylor]

30. It makes me sad that those trying to silence dissent are winning the battle.

[randys1]

35. When people are willing to target you personally, and they are out there, trust me, it

changes this whole experience.

We know these people exist, we just cant really believe it until they do this shit

[DonCoquixote]

63. frankly

I know I am not Skinner, and I sure do not envy him, but, in light of the ATTACKS targeted at the AA forum. I would publicly assign an admin to that forum, and make it very clear that that forum is begin watched for mischief. I would also make sure whoever runs the AA forum is in personal contact with me, so that if that person says "hey watch out for this person" Skinner could watch. Yes, it is possible to say "why not for (insert group here), but this election, and this year, there is to be frank, an epidemic of people hoping to get a hit at AA's now that Obama is on the way out.

[AuntPatsy]

64. I'm not sure anyone on the Internet is, Sick people out there, this thread was informative

[sheshe2]

89. Hey Cordell...

Catching up on my mail. Yes, I've got it now. I will send you some mail in a day or so. I have an idea I want to share with you. Thank you, brother.

What has happened in the past here and what seems to be escalating in epic proportions, saddens me. I just want to weep.

Stay safe.

[mhatrw]

90. If you don't feel safe, please help out the bullies.

They should be the ones who get chased away. Not you.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

96. Solidarity. Be well. n/t

[lovemydog]

97. I love you too.

[yuiyoshida]

98. Stay safe...

Anzen ni taizai shi, sugu ni akusesu shite kudasai! 安全に滞在し、すぐにアクセスしてください

see you soon I hope,

[Kurska]

111. This is getting absolutely ridiculous TBH

Alert stalking is out of control and being used as a partisan weapon.