African American
Related: About this forumIt's quite clear the DU isn't ready for Black Liberation...
The reactions to the OP/video interview of Marissa Janae Johnson says it all.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027065423
Her words are not resonating, even if they're perfectly clear and reasoned.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)race.
And demonizing one woman that spoke out and is speaking out again, but now no one wants to listen to the deeper message beyond the hashtags and the headlines and Twitter deep thought.
These protests and explanations are trying to prove the opposite, it is an invitation to join as allies.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)White Americas racial illiteracy: Why our national conversation is poisoned from the start
The author of "What Does It Mean to Be White?" examines the ways white people implode when they talk about race
DR. ROBIN DIANGELO, THE GOOD MEN PROJECT
I am white. I have spent years studying what it means to be white in a society that proclaims race meaningless, yet is deeply divided by race. This is what I have learned: Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sourcesschools, textbooks, mediadont provide us with the multiple perspectives we need.
Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we dont know what we dont know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.
Mainstream dictionary definitions reduce racism to individual racial prejudice and the intentional actions that result. The people that commit these intentional acts are deemed bad, and those that dont are good. If we are against racism and unaware of committing racist acts, we cant be racist; racism and being a good person have become mutually exclusive. But this definition does little to explain how racial hierarchies are consistently reproduced.
Social scientists understand racism as a multidimensional and highly adaptive systema system that ensures an unequal distribution of resources between racial groups. Because whites built and dominate all significant institutions, (often at the expense of and on the uncompensated labor of other groups), their interests are embedded in the foundation of U.S. society.
BainsBane
(53,056 posts)the impediment to anti-racism.
I actually didn't know that thread had been posted when I created mine because I finally put that member on ignore yesterday. I'm afraid to read the comments. I find it all so disheartening.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)the video...I find personally shocking.
BainsBane
(53,056 posts)It's toxic and hateful. It is so incredibly unjust. It pains me. I can't remained mired in this degree of privilege and hostility to human rights and equality. I have to do something to make this world better, and here I am only wallowing with those who seek to hold it back.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)"When the problem is resolved, the solution isn't going to involve BLM. They aren't interested in a resolution, they see continued conflict as a vehicle for their power-trip."
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)is amazing. "It's divisive!" "It calls for the pain and suffering of a whole race of people!"
Me, I love that picture. And the one's that are crying about it are the ones that it's aimed at.
mcar
(42,372 posts)It all hurts my heart. "None so blind as those who will not see" and all that.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)or at MJ Johnson's personal opinions as expressed to Imani Gandy?
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Marissa was clearly discussing her opposition against white supremacy and that was described as "crazy talk."
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I do not see discussion of this as "crazy talk". Most US history shows this. But many liberals, progressives, and leftists cannot accept that the US is a white supremacist country. Or cannot accept that ALL white Americans benefit from white supremacy. We, meaning white people, are not all millionaires, we are not economically equal to the white millionaires, but as whites, we will not be questioned as to why we are walking/driving/shopping in a particular area. It is accepted and understood that we have a right to go wherever we wish to go.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)But when you look at the push back to that narrative, I hope that you've noticed that the responses are framed in terms of citing white feelings as a tool to derail the conversation.
White supremacy harms everyone in this country, including whites themselves. It's also pretty difficult to get that point across to some as well.
Lisa D
(1,532 posts)As a 50-something white woman, I've never worried when a cop pulled me over on the road.
I've never had an employee follow me around in a store.
No one crossed to the other side of the street when they saw me walking toward them.
I wasn't refused a job because of the color of my skin.
I didn't worry that a landlord wouldn't rent to me.
That's what white supremacy means, and I'm sure I've barely scratched the surface.
The truth is that I'm basically clueless about the experience of living black in America. And I'm not insulted when someone points that out to me.
Response to Lisa D (Reply #26)
guillaumeb This message was self-deleted by its author.
mcar
(42,372 posts)50 something white woman here too.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)It seems like the essence of conservative thinking to believe we all start off the same and have the same path in life in this country. I know you are right, since we are seeing this play out here and all over, but I'm still having a tough time wrapping my mind around it.
I've only been pulled over once in my life, it was uneventful. I only remember it because it was the one time. I was so embarrassed--I can't imagine that being a regular feature in my life. Or expecting that could lead to my death. Our entire system is built on white supremacist structures and we whites benefit from it in countless ways.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)It, white supremacy, is the water that we all swim in.
But not all members of DU are leftists.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)but are the 'highlights' listed accurate? If so, I think I can see why her words are not resonating. It's a political site. Even on the left, people here are largely trying to change the system from within, not simply burn it down entirely. Bernie isn't 'left' enough for my tastes either. But he's miles ahead of anyone else running out there - he's my 'incrementalism' in making the US more socialistic and egalitarian. So if the choices are 'burn everything down' or 'attempt to change the system', I think he's a decent start on changing the system. He's not 'the end product', just a beginning. I think 'burning everything down' ends up just as poorly for people with darker skins as for people with lighter skins.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Only a racist can become unracist. There is no one, no group, not much of anything that can magically change a person's core beliefs except that person.
But, I'd like to say to Ms. Johnson, we CAN absolutely change the laws that oppress and were created to be racially unjust but we can NOT do it alone.
Black people are NOT the majority race in this country, we absolutely need our white allies as well as other AA civil rights groups to stand with us.
We can not go it alone.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)And those are people using their real names! This has gone beyond whitesplaining into some ugly crowd psychology thing. I keep wanting to comment, I know I need to, but people are not even listening to even a little reason. Some things you can't unsay, people.
UtahLib
(3,179 posts)The alerter was shut down 7-0 to leave it. I was juror #2. I'm so sick of the alert abuse directed toward our AA posters and hope Admin is considering investigating.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)I'd love for you to post the alert results email, if you don't mind. Just copy and paste.
UtahLib
(3,179 posts)OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)On Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:13 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
It's quite clear the DU isn't ready for Black Liberation...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118721455
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Ugly, false accusations against his fellow DUers.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:36 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No alerter, another ugly attempt to shut down an AA poster. You and your buddies should check yourselves.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I disagree with everything MrScorpio says in post; however, he has a right to say it. Alert Abuse.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Perfectly valid topic for the AA group. Leave it. Stay out of the group if you don't like the conversation.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see "DU isn't ready for Black Liberation" as a hideable statement, even if I side with Bernie in this dust up.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: lolwat? I'd say this alert more or less proves his accusation. On matters of being black in America, I think I'd rather let Mr Scorpio educate me. I am positive he has a better grasp on the situation than I do.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Quayblue
(1,045 posts)As if MrScorpio is a small child to be chastised after not playing nice with his playmate.
lulz
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)I think the only thing a person can do is add people to your blacklist. Meaning those people openly hostile towards you will never be asked to be on a jury involving you.
You only get to add 15 names and I'm not sure if this is a star member perk only.
On edit......non star members can onky blacklist 5 members.
I think I prefer the old DU system much better although that could easily be abused too but easier to spot.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)And frankly, I'd rather confront my detractors face to face. I think that can I deal with the jury system. Besides, I really have no idea who would alert on me or not.
If some other poster wanted to come at me, I would prefer that they'd do it out in the open.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)This is a persistent and obsessive pattern with someone(s). At least one person won't be able to alert again for 24 hours though.
UtahLib
(3,179 posts)based on experience and knowledge of history, of the AA posters at DU. I find it to be especially disheartening to witness the condescension, anger and dismissive attitude they are faced with on a Democratic site.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)lib87
(535 posts)It happens every time when some Whites are confronted with an uncomfortable truth about race: Turn the conversation to focus on their 'hurt' feelings and how they are the real victims, what about MLK, what about Obama. I know this type of response is celebrated in conservative forums but I thought it would not be tolerated here. My mistake.
I'm resigned to now just playing my violin during the deflection posts.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)lib87
(535 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Just planted in my head.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I don't think her words make much sense, at least not when placed in the context in which she delivered her message. Many people feel passionately about a particular issue, but to demand it be the only issue does not seem perfectly clear and reasoned.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)I understood exactly what she was talking about in the interview.
brer cat
(24,594 posts)is life or death, maybe it does seem clear and reasoned.
JustAnotherGen
(31,869 posts)It will not impact my life in any way at all. Wait - no - it will.
If she keeps at it maybe a police officer will think twice about throwing me to the ground and kicking a woman when she's down?
Maybe someone like my brother or nephews - my Uncle - my cousins and their sons . . . Will get justice when stalked and killed by a Zimpig type?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'm about as obtuse as can be when it comes to seeing social issues from outside of my own comfort zone. I say that to better illustrate this: if even I, in all my obtuse naivete can see a racial divide being made greater by a willful ignorance by the BLM critics on DU, I can only imagine how obvious and frustrating it is to the members of this group.
This divide will be exploited for all its worth in the coming months, and the posters who are too clever by half will out their own bigotries and biases. But it may take some time before that happens...
d_r
(6,907 posts)And not just on du.
Growing pains.
Baitball Blogger
(46,756 posts)I don't think Seattle will be the place where black issues will find a place to launch. I have spoken to "Seattle Liberals" and these kind of issues are not something that's a part of their every day existence. But it is Liberal, and they are very conscientious and accommodating to general protests that follow city protocol. Perhaps this "unscheduled" clash was inevitable.
I will continue to listen to Marissa's point of view to look for common ground, but I will say that it's a mistake to compare a Liberal community with right-wing extremists from the South. It's a different environment entirely, and one that requires a different strategy.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)I suggest that you take some time out to watch it.
It might add some clarification to this issue.
Baitball Blogger
(46,756 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)be well
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)look at those riling against BLM and take a second look at their comments. This is all, and only, about Bernie ... The vast majority only care that BLM "targeted" Bernie, as evidenced by the "why aren't they (BLM) attacking HRC/President Obama/Republicans, whomever"/"It's conspiracy111!" comments.
But this is not to say that DU is ready for Black liberation.
Number23
(24,544 posts)current president. Including before he was even sworn into office
Surely, you don't think that's a coincidence?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)hmmm ... never mind!
I wish some DU math wiz would compute the correlation between Bernie Group posting and AA Group, HoF Group, BOG Group, LGBT Group and P&L Group blockage.
LOL.
Number23
(24,544 posts)president every name they could think of. Been called out, embarrassed, etc. more times than anybody can count but they are leaping like hyenas just absolutely delirious with glee over all of this shit.
And have you noticed the group playing "Gotcha!" right now, especially with the black posters? Bringing up posts and stuff from damn near 10 years ago in an effort to show... something? I've noticed that they've gotten you before and they've gone after bigtree and Tarheel_Dem. They are the main ones who have called this president every thing they could get away with. Got called out by EVERYBODY, even by their friends. They just go away for a while and slither back again, stirring the shit. Just constantly stirring.
I guess we're not supposed to see them and what they're doing. You would think given what happened a few years ago that they would be the first ones to align themselves with #BLM and what they are trying to do. But instead, they are too busy playing "Gotcha" with meaningless shit from damn near 10 years ago to care about these issues. Why give a shit about black people getting killed when you can whine and bray endlessly that someone said something you didn't like on a message board? SEVEN YEARS AGO!!!??!!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(175,749 posts)Person 2713
(3,263 posts)Good to know a little about the past.thank you
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Link offered up for use in replying to folks. BLM tried to protest Hillary, although her people kept them out.
Maybe there can be less paranoia now that it can be seen they are indeed going after Hillary too.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)read the DU response to BLM's attempt to protest HRC.
I think you have too much faith in DU:Bernie.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Er...they weren't really trying.
Uh, I mean...
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I know ... it' tough out there.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)If we're still talking about the comments under the link to the OP I just posted, they're about how Hillary is being slick enough to keep BLM protesters out of her events, not any sort of attack on the BLM protesters trying to protest her.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)I've been ready for black liberation since I was born regardless I think this woman is a troll and reading about her views on her facebook page only reenforces that she isn't a person anyone on the left should be rallying around.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)if you need to be taken down. He did a great interview
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)That's not exactly an unknown motivation in progressive circles, now is it?
It was for Dr. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X and the Berrigan Brothers and even Sister Helen Prejean
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)Last year my white nephew started a shitstorm at a sedate family gathering when he said so what if whites become the minority. It will be OK My family likes to think of themselves as liberal, some of the family is black but the idea of not being a white country bothered some of the white folks. I was kinda hopeful when a few of us didn't think it was going to be a bad thing, we're kinda looking forward to it. I think it will change the country for the better.
ismnotwasm
(41,999 posts)Appallingly clear.
I would love to be able to say "unbelievably clear" but the potential has been here all
along. Didn't take much.
Cha
(297,556 posts)me onto that last night.
It was so interesting.. so glad I heard that. Felt like I was much more educated afterwards.
The reality is nothing like the majority on DU is trying to spin.. and spin it ugly.
Free Bravenak!