African American
Related: About this forum#BlackLivesMatter Protesters Are Not the Problem
This is an African-American group post.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122510/blacklivesmatter-protesters-are-not-problem
<snip>
A page entitled Racial Justice only appeared on his site early Sunday morning, containing a long list of proposals. A campaign representative reached out to me to say that those proposals, in the works for the three weeks since Netroots, were derived from a speech thats been on the site since July 25. Given the pressure being put on them and the urgency they showed in creating the platform, its odd that the campaign put it online, essentially, under the cover of darkness.
The policies on Sanderss racial justice page, while surely more welcome than none at all, are undeniably blurrier than those OMalley put forth, and need considerably more specificity and clarity. Theres a lot of the typically forcefully liberal language Sanders likes to employ in order to inspire, but it seems even more fanciful than the OMalley plan. But those ideas are certainly signs that he is hearing #BlackLivesMatters message. The problem isnt so much him as it is his supporters, cursing protesters and later, on social media, touting their guys record whenever they are challenged on his (heretofore) lack of a platform regarding structural racism. They continue to misunderstand the primary goals of the #BlackLivesMatter protest actions, as have been clearly stated: Firm policy proposals, not rhetoric. Black voters have moved past "hope and change. And hiring Symone Sanders, a black woman, as his press secretaryas the Sanders campaign announced hours after the protestcan't be expected to mollify the movement. #BlackLivesMatter wants policies for black people, not black people for his policies.
<snip>
The common mistake made by both Carson and certain Sanders supporters is that in the midst of people dying at the hands of police and a still-largely racist justice system, their reaction is to blame the victim. Carson implies that the real problem lies with the people complaining about being killed and abused and denied opportunities, not the white supremacy that tilts the game against them on a daily, nay, hourly basis. Forget the White House for a moment; Sanders acolytes insist upon nominating their candidate first as an ally for black people. They act insulted that they are not trusted to recommend their candidate as the top advocate for black liberation in the presidential race. Yet, they and the campaign spend time devising tone-deaf chants ("We Stand Together" to drown out any future protesters, as Ms. Sanders announced during a Sunday night event in Portland. I'm not against criticizing activist tactics, but the idea that #BlackLivesMatter protesters are hurting their cause by challenging candidates, even those considered allies, is based in the notion that the burden of making change is on them. It isn't. Too many Sanders supporters appear to be caught up in their feelings when a protester rubs them the wrong way. They ask, why are the protesters so rude, or annoying, or targeting the wrong guy?
In response, I ask simply: Since when are protest tactics designed to make the people whom they are targeting feel more comfortable and less annoyed? And since when is Sanders, or Carson, or any candidate exempt from being pushed? Just since Friday, weve passed the anniversary of Michael Brown's death, having seen both another young man killed by a cop and more violence in Ferguson. Yet we still have black conservatives like Carson letting the world believe that black activists trying to fix this are the true racial problem, and some white liberals telling them to ask for help more politely.
<snip>
Spazito
(50,407 posts)This being one of them:
"Since when are protest tactics designed to make the people whom they are targeting feel more comfortable and less annoyed?"
This aspect seems to fly over the head of far too many, imo, but only when the protests are inconvenient to their preferred candidate.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)It's certainly the protest that has gained the most attention thus far.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)My local online newspaper for the first time in weeks, has 2 reports about Sanders! One about the 43,000 at his two speeches, and the other about the confrontation with BLM.
They had been ignoring Sanders. Now he is being introduced for the first time to many more people!
As to Bernie's campaign response to BLM, it shows he is listening and does care.
mopinko
(70,163 posts)early enough in the campaign to allow for the response to be fleshed out. early enough to let bernie make specific promises, and know that he will be held to them.
we need a whole lot more "uppity" in this country, not less.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Exactly. Thanks for that.
n8dogg83
(248 posts)now that he has released his racial justice policies and will probably work with some of the Black Lives Matter people to refine and expand on them to be more specific. It has also ramped up the pressure for the Hillary campaign to put out a platform as well.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)I think what happened at net roots was one thing, but what happened this weekend is another.
I have yet to meet a black republican who was not a disgusting person, I'm sure this troll is an equally terrible person who we would all shun if we knew the depths of her twisted Sarah Palin loving politics.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)other than some joking posts to friends. I'm sure any sort of out-of-context narrative could be created out of anyone's FB page. She reminds me of young activists I have encountered in the Bay Area.
Even if she were a right-winger, which I do not believe, I don't support the dehumanizing language I've heard used on her.
Edit to add: Her group, Outside Agitators, does activities with the Seattle Branch of the International Socialist Organization, which I looked up and found the first day. http://www.pugetsoundsocialists.org/tag/outside-agitators-206/
They consider themselves to the left of Bernie.
Cha
(297,446 posts)in Seattle and .. No, she's not a palin supporter.. surprise. BS supporters don't like her because the was "rude to Bernie".. so they tried to smear her..
The interview plays clips of the vicious crowd background too.
Bains Bane
It's enlightening and very interesting.. when you have the time.. about 30 minutes long.
Thank you for your OP, Starry
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'll listen when the sun comes up here. I knew the allegations that she was a Palin supporter were wrong.
I tuned into Chris Hayes last night on the advice of bravenak--good interview with State Senator Pramila Jayapal who was there at the rally, and had to comfort two other young Black women who were frightened at the racism in the crowd. If I find video, I'll post it. She wrote an article you have probably seen. http://portside.org/2015-08-10/why-saturdays-bernie-sanders-rally-left-me-feeling-heartbroken
Cha
(297,446 posts)threads.. Got accused of being "dishonest" by a BS supporter because of how I chose to make my own post.
The vid will be excellent.
From Washington State Senator Pramila Jayapal's FB post..
'To build a movement, we have to be smarter than those who are trying to divide us. We have to take our anger and rage and channel it into building, growing, loving, holding each other up. We need our outlets too, our places of safety where we can say what we think without worrying about how it's going to land, where we can call out even our white loved ones, friends, allies for what they are not doing. But in the end, if we want to win for ALL of us on racial, economic, and social justice issues, we need multiple sets of tactics, working together. Some are disruptive tactics. Some are loving tactics. Some are truth-telling tactics. Some can only be taken on by white people. Some can only be taken on by people of color. Sometimes we need someone from the other strand to step in and hold us up. Other times, we have to step out and hold them up. Each of us has a different role to play but we all have to hold the collective space for movement building together. That's what I hope we all keep in mind and work on together. It's the only way we move forward.'
She's brilliant!
Cha
(297,446 posts)on the internet and think it's golden if it fits their agenda.
BS supporters don't like her because "she was rude to Bernie".. so they try to smear her.
But, ol Bernie is changing his tune now.. so #BlackLivesMatter is making quite the good impression.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)If by the internet you mean things people say about themselves on the internet I would have to be a big fucking asshole not to take her own word for how she sees the world. As a fundi christian we should be asking her what she thinks of gay marriage.
Cha
(297,446 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,236 posts)Being forced (or gently nudged) isn't the optimal response, but it is a response. I remember back in the good old days when change came about as a result of activism, there were catfights about the way it was achieved, but then there was celebration. I don't see celebrating about this. Most "Democrats" & even Republican campaigns already know about diversity hiring. Jezus, it's 2015, ferchrissakes.
Ron Christie, Former Bush Advisor & GOP Consultant
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Oh, the flashbacks!
"Most "Democrats" & even Republican campaigns already know about diversity hiring. Jezus, it's 2015, ferchrissakes."
And about the optics of hiring someone right after the event in question and letting your supporters yell "Look, he did something. You happy now?" at people.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,236 posts)There are a lot of raw feelings right now. Mystified white folk wondering why we just didn't fall in love with BS cuz he "marched with Martin". And folks like myself saying, "so did David Horowitz" as repulsive as he is. I just hope our other candidates are better prepared for their eventual run-in with BLM, and other activist groups.
HRC may or may not be protested by the group, but there are others that can't wait to after her. I just hope she & her team are prepared.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)But I see it over here and on Twitter. Telling Black people they should be grateful for what attention they receive from power is not a new political revolution--it's pretty much a throwback to the bad old days.
I hope HRC and the others are prepared too, it would be great to hear something substantial in response to the movement. Race should always be upfront in politics, it's pretty much the root of all the problems this country has.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But even that comes to naught ... since immediately after yelling that, they follow up with, "See ... They're never satisfied! Why do 'WE' even try?"
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The Portland Bernie twitter account literally did that to the author of the piece, Jamil Smith. It's like clockwork. All of his mentions look like the white race decided to switch to drone warfare.
https://twitter.com/JamilSmith/status/630244567741284352
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)"Beam her down to the planet now!"
dragonfly301
(399 posts)when every week another mother is told her child is not coming home. My disagreement with the movement is that they aren't targeting people who have the ability to help. Black lives are being ended by those who were hired to "serve and protect", across the country - no longer in predictable southern states. Last night a 15 year old in Indianapolis was killed by a police officer. I don't understand how grabbing the mic from Bernie Sanders who may not even be the nominee and if elected will not be in office until Jan 2017, is helping. For a year BLM has been protesting and taking victory laps when they shut down a politician's speech - the same weekend a kid is killed in Indiana and someone is shot in Ferguson - what is there to celebrate?
I would love it if the POTUS called a White House Conference on LE/Race Relations, similar to the WH Conference on Aging. Experts in the field come together to share ideas, figure out what needs to be changed and begin to find common goals. Invite BLM, the 50 governors, mayors of major cities, experts in race relations...open up the discussion, stop the killing. It has now been a year since Michael Brown was gunned down and I don't see elected officials doing anything substantial to end this crisis. I just read that last month a group of state attorney generals from the western states met in Maui to swap legal ideas and meet with executives and lobbyists - wouldn't it have been great to have met in DC instead to discuss the mistreatment of African Americans in the justice system? DC too hot and sticky for them? Tough.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)"I would love it if the POTUS called a White House Conference on LE/Race Relations, similar to the WH Conference on Aging. Experts in the field come together to share ideas, figure out what needs to be changed and begin to find common goals. Invite BLM, the 50 governors, mayors of major cities, experts in race relations...open up the discussion, stop the killing. It has now been a year since Michael Brown was gunned down and I don't see elected officials doing anything substantial to end this crisis. I just read that last month a group of state attorney generals from the western states met in Maui to swap legal ideas and meet with executives and lobbyists - wouldn't it have been great to have met in DC instead to discuss the mistreatment of African Americans in the justice system? DC too hot and sticky for them? Tough."
I didn't know about the meeting in Maui, your idea is much better.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,236 posts)And there are already conferences, commissions, and task forces on the race issue:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/02/27/fact-sheet-opportunity-all-president-obama-launches-my-brother-s-keeper-
Contrary to popular belief by the BS brigade, anytime his name comes up in connection with race issues, they deflect and ask "well, what's Obama done?", he's not twiddling his thumbs, but he also has a country to run. It takes more than him. BS is currently an elected office holder, and he can introduce any kind of legislation he wants, but he has to want to. And if he can get it through both houses of Congress, I'm sure the President will sign off on it.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/12/18/president-creates-task-force-21st-century-policing
What would be great is if people could stop focusing their time, energy & empathy on the hurt feelings of one politician & the hysterics of his "supporters". BLM, apparently, is not subject to the whims of a single campaign, and disgruntled folks on the internet. Also, whose Justice Dept do you think is already out there, policing the police?
Attorney General Loretta Lynch discusses the DOJ Efforts to Reform Policing
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/09/1410337/-Attorney-General-Loretta-Lynch-discusses-the-DOJ-Efforts-to-Reform-Policing#
So, attempts at deflection fall flat with me.
dragonfly301
(399 posts)does BlackLivesMatter have a seat at the table? It was created 8 months ago - what have they come up with? How many lives have been lost since then?
dragonfly301
(399 posts)but he also has a country to run.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,236 posts)BLM, to whom I am sympathetic, but not a part of is not the only ethnic group seeking redress. Since you obviously have a computer, you could do your own research. To imply that the president and his administration aren't doing anything on race is just ridiculous and not worthy of much of a response.
Are people still being killed? Of course they are. But all these many years after the Voting Rights Act of 1965, we're seeing jurisdictions across the country still mucking around with the right to vote. You can't prevent the bad actions of all the authority figures, but you can sure as hell prosecute them to fullest extent of the law after the bad act. So, I don't expect the killings to stop overnight, and neither should you.
dragonfly301
(399 posts)and I will stick with that. When young people are being killed for walking while black, I get impatient - I want to see action.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,236 posts)MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)I'm glad that it was posted here.
Loved this:
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)He touched a nerve. https://twitter.com/JamilSmith/status/630244567741284352
Jamil Smith ?@JamilSmith Aug 8
I thought #BlackLivesMatter wants @BernieSanders to have policies for black people, not black people for his policies. He got it backwards.
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PortlandMaine4Bernie ?@Portland4Bernie 13h13 hours ago
Oh for God's sake!! There's just no pleasing you @jamilsmith. Have you even read his platform on racial justice??? https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
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Jamil Smith ?@JamilSmith 10h10 hours ago Brooklyn, NY
@Portland4Bernie When I tweeted that, the page you just linked at me wasn't online. And keep approaching people like that. You'll go far.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Tone deafness seems to be a huge problem getting in the way for the campaign.
There's always room for improvement, right?
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I just want to Febreeze all of the internet today.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,747 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)throwing my Mac out the window after spending the past hour reading through GDP.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Hi Jamaal, good to see you. It's insanity in there, I think some of them have started speaking in tongues.
Cha
(297,446 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)Of which I am one. I've spent the last few days having discussions with white liberals trying to help them. I would refer them to black activists but they don't know any well enough. I think I am making some headway since I have directed them to some internet sites. The gist of their concern was why don't black activists support dems, not just Bernie but that entitlement of "we've done so much for them".
I've decided a long time ago that it's not up to black folks to fix white racism. So I'm going to send this article off to a few of my friends and I'm sure I'll get a response. In the meantime, I'm going to keep listening and learning. I've asked my white friends to resist the urge after reading a few articles to getting on black twitter sites and offering advice and read and ask questions. I am no expert on anything but sometimes I have to repeat that to myself so I'm not telling anyone including my white liberal friends that they are wrong, just listen and ask questions
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)"I've decided a long time ago that it's not up to black folks to fix white racism." I also feel this way too. I don't know if I'm making any headway, but I'll keep trying. I know that there are some people who are reachable.
I guess there are a lot more people who are new to this conversation about whiteness in activist spaces than I had considered. I got used to being around the people I'm around irl, where these conversations happen in a (mostly) productive fashion. It's a good reminder to me to get out of my bubble too.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)and non-black people because most of the black ones can't be bothered with their unhinged inanity anymore won't K&R.
But I sure as hell will.
The problem isnt so much him as it is his supporters, cursing protesters and later, on social media, touting their guys record whenever they are challenged on his (heretofore) lack of a platform regarding structural racism. They continue to misunderstand the primary goals of the #BlackLivesMatter protest actions, as have been clearly stated: Firm policy proposals, not rhetoric. Black voters have moved past "hope and change. And hiring Symone Sanders, a black woman, as his press secretaryas the Sanders campaign announced hours after the protestcan't be expected to mollify the movement. #BlackLivesMatter wants policies for black people, not black people for his policies.
Any of the regular posters in this forum could have written this piece. Because we have been saying, have been SCREAMING this exact same thing for about 2 and a half months. Not that these idiots will listen.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I thought that paragraph was great too. It's pretty straightforward, proposals, not just rhetoric. But in GDP, nothing can be so simple. The twisted recasting of two college-aged Black women activists as crypto-operatives that has been going on for hours? Now days? Is a form of collective delusion I've never before seen occurring right in front of my eyes.
Number23
(24,544 posts)It's unreal, isn't it? But look who's doing it.
The same crowd that screams every election that their guy/gal lost because TPTB, the Illuminati, Stonehenge, space aliens, what the fuck ever wouldn't "let" their candidate win.
It couldn't POSSIBLY be that their candidate didn't have enough support? It couldn't POSSIBLY be that their candidate was unqualified? It couldn't POSSIBLY be that their candidate was the most unremarkable, least distinguished name on the ballot. No. Their guy/gal lost because the magnetic forces of the universe wouldn't LET him/her win.
These people have no clue. And all of the non-black people screaming "BLACk liVes MattER!!1" to a forum full of non-blacks because the black people whose lives "matter" so much could no longer deal with their privileged ignorance and insanity and left doesn't do anything but prove it.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)People are still posting vile threats, here and Twitter and FB. Someone threw a water bottle at one of the women when they were on stage. They ignored everything the women said about gentrification and the racist police system in Seattle. One woman gasped and said "How DARE she call me a racist!!11" when Marissa called out their appalling behavior.
And now it's all part of some ridiculous plot to defeat Bernie? It's not like white people haven't made events planned by Black people all about their issues, either, because I've been to a few in the Bay Area, and white people have absolutely no shame about placing their concerns smack into the middle of a Black activist space and event.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Now apparently, that's all part of the vast conspiracy as well. Because they obviously didn't really "mean" to protest her. It was all just some elaborate act, you know.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)#BlackLivesMatter obviously started over two years ago, just for this moment. It is all so clear now! And they are discussing something, with no media. Of course it couldn't possibly be about HRC finally putting together a policy package for racial justice.
It's probably their plans to take over the White House and unleash the new Lady President/Black Activist New World Order which will plunge US society into chaos and despair. And keep Bernie in the Rose Garden. Or something.
Cha
(297,446 posts)Exactly.. unreal. "Certain Sanders supporters.." way too many.
Thank you for this excellent article by Jamie Utt, Starry Messenger.
And, No.. #BlackLivesMatters Protesters are Not the Problem!
Response to Starry Messenger (Original post)
Tommy2Tone This message was self-deleted by its author.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'm inviting you to take that question elsewhere, which has been asked 250 times out in GD and GDP and keep it out of the African American group. This is the first and last warning. Thank you.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)Leaving now