Curious how it feels to have all these white people using "POC this" "POC that"

[Bonobo]

as a proxy war to fight their little internecine battles and score points.

As if all black people thought the same or something.

Personally it would bug the fuck out of me. It feels like there is a lot of disingenuousness and a lot of patronizing and a lot of assuming going on.

So what about it? I'm asking the black people in the room here... should it stop? Should white people just knock it the fuck off or what?

[patricia92243]

1. What does POC mean?

[monmouth4]

2. I think it means "People of Color."...n/t

[TM99]

3. Hell, I get pissed when a small group of POC

try to speak for all of us as if we are a monolithic group.

We are not.

[Bonobo]

4. Oh, so you DO post here in the group.

I guess a certain someone might decide then that you have a right to be counted.

[TM99]

5. I rarely post here.

I don't want to argue with others on positions, Post New Left language, etc. that I know we will disagree on.

So I respect the safe haven for those that do.

[Number23]

11. What does this post mean?

I've never seen you in this group, on this version or on DU2. But that's neither here nor there.

But what does this mean "I don't want to argue with others on positions, Post New Left language, etc. that I know we will disagree on"? I don't understand what "positions" you would be "arguing" with the black posters on this site about and I have no idea what "New Left" language is.

This whole OP smells like flamebait and deliberate disruption. And it's sad to see people fall for it, especially those who have acknowledged that they don't regularly participate in this forum.

[TM99]

14. Actually, yes, I have posted here a few times

and discussed a few things with you in fact. It was over 2 years ago, so perhaps you don't remember.

http://publicautonomy.org/2014/01/27/the-rise-of-the-post-new-left-political-vocabulary/

This link, which I have posted, several times before on DU discusses the differences in vocabulary between generations engaged in social activism and civil rights. I am old school. Much of this group is new school. Why argue with y'all?

As the son of a black father and white mother, I have every right to speak on issues affecting POC as I am one too.

I will not argue with you even though you throw the first insults by claiming I am being disruptive and posting flamebait.

Even if I strongly disagree with several of the members of this group elsewhere, I do not want conflict with you here and now. Thank you for confirming what I just wrote, and I will voluntarily never post here again.

[Number23]

15. I said the OP was flamebait. Perhaps if you weren't working so hard to be insulted and offended

by the posters in this forum, you could have realized that. No one in this forum has ever told bi-racial people they can't participate here. In fact, there are other bi-racial regulars here, many of us are in bi-racial relationships and some of the coolest, most beloved posters here are (fully) white and some other beloved posters are Jewish. Don't come in here putting your own hangups and labels on us, please.

As for the "I am old school, much of this group is new" once again I have no idea what you're talking about. You use lots of labels but I can't see where you're actually saying anything.

If you want to not post here again or want to wait another two years to do, that's entirely on you.

[TM99]

17. I never said that

anyone was being rude about bi-racial people.

Read my link. That is why I put it there.

I am sorry, I thought you were implying that my post was flamebait. Thanks for clarifying.

[JustAnotherGen]

18. Interesting article

There's one piece missing -

It doesn't speak to those who believe (perhaps it is even NEWER school ) that capitalism and social justice can exist at the same time.

[TM99]

20. It is very good.

The language is more what I am referring to. I would argue that many New Left speaking activist like myself who came of age in the 1970's and 1980's have no issue with seeing regulated capitalism and social justice co-existing. That is one of the main reasons why I support a Sanders candidacy. He speaks to both economic and social justice.

The Post New Left seem to have a harder time seeing those exist at the same time.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Who would be a post new left candidate? n/t

[heaven05]

6. black people

Last edited Sun Jun 21, 2015, 11:20 AM - Edit history (1)

ARE thinking for ourselves, without need of any 'splaining' or condescension from any other group. POC is a proper acronym to use in referring to a racial group of americans, just know that the metaphorical 'pat on the head' is recognized and understood for what it is. That we don't all think the same way is a good thing that I know can generate healthy debate, I hope. We know where we are trying to go and if our allies can help, even if using that acronym is part of help and not division, that's a good thing, I think. Allies are good, Benedict Arnolds aren't and they are usually ferreted out when the chips are down as I have seen in a lot of comments in forums here this week. Hope I'm clear.

[Bonobo]

7. Clear as the finest crystal. nt

[bettyellen]

8. You mean like this:

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

This OP is the same exact crap we hear to discredit feminists. Trot out a woman who doesn't give a damn about the issues, and have her say "you don't speak for me".

The end game being - no one can speak up in solidarity for women or POC. Nice little game.

[1StrongBlackMan]

10. Yep ...

funny how that works, huh?

[Starry Messenger]

12. GREAT article.

Thanks.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. You want to know how we feel? ...

We read what is written, measure it against, what the writers have said previously, and are clear about who is using the term for their " little internecine battles and points scoring", i.e., who are allies are, and who should just be ignored.

[bettyellen]

13. Because by the OPs logic POC can't speak for POC either- it's a handy trick alright

And part of the reason I feel at home here is- we've both heard this bullshit before.
We can tell the difference between patronizing bullshit and the behavior of allies. Amazed the OP thinks it's confusing or something.

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. And, funny ...

The allies are the ones that catch the most sh!t here from those that scream loudest that PoC accept them as allies.

Telling isn't it?

[bettyellen]

23. Interesting the OP would like to sow division and distrust, ain't it?

While pretending to have your best interests at heart. I'm guessing where our interests and experiences overlap is not their own happy place.
It's a pretty amusing OP, reminds me of when cops dress up as protestors to infiltrate - what's that called again?

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. Yeah ...

Last edited Mon Jun 22, 2015, 01:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Correct me if I have this wrong:

The majority of Black DUers say "X, because our life experience informs us that X is best for me", regarding racism, discrimination and/or policy/agenda direction that directly affect us ...

A faction of non-Black DUers say, "Not-X, Y because my life experience informs me that Y is best for me AND YOU."

A couple white DUers, see other white DUers, complete misunderstanding/dismissing what (most) Black DUers are saying.

These couple of white DUers step up to say, "No, that is NOT what PoC are saying, at all ... what I understand them to be saying is ... and, you would probably get that too, if you would just listen to what they are saying" ... and the majority of Black DUers applaud those couple of white DUers for, both, their understanding AND their efforts in communicating with/correcting those other DUers.

A representative of that non-Black DU faction, comes into the AA Group with a thinly veiled attempt to recruit Black DUers to silence those couple of DUers that get it?

Now that takes either, a complete lack of self-awareness, or a huge set of platinum balls.

[bettyellen]

26. I know you and most others here are not afraid to talk me if I am off base-

(And I'm happy to listen to feedback)

And I also already know all too well about be issues we are allied on. We've been discussing them for years here! Why would someone suggest I should ignore my feelings of solidarity with people here and be silent?

Am I supposed to ignore the suggestion is coming from someone who has also suggested I shouldn't speak for women- or speak at all?

I'm guessing you know that 's the endgame here. Shut me up, and shut you up when you speak out about women's issues. But I have always appreciated hearing your thought and support for women- so why has HE got a problem with it. Not hard to figure this one out. Lol.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. What's your answer to this question?

Should white people just knock it the fuck off or what?

[Bonobo]

21. My answer is white people should lay off A LOT from

trying to score points by claiming to be spokesman for people of color.

It's the sanctimony when you know, you just know, it's politically motivated (and not in a good way).

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. Perhaps, you should look at the PoC's response ...

to those you have claiming to be spokespersons for PoC.

As you have probably noticed, we are quite capable of speaking for ourselves. When an "ally" speaks their understanding of what we have been saying, we read it ... if they get it right, we applaud it; when they get it wrong, we correct it.

But I find it interesting that you would like to be "offended&quot ?) by a white person speaking their understanding of what PoC have been saying ... when, the PoC here (largely) are not.

[bettyellen]

25. I have learned a lot here- been corrected on some naive

Thinking to be honest and learned quite a lot from others here. It's a good place for that- if you're open to listening.

What I don't do - in the midst of discussion-is try and find someone who already agrees with me and use them as a cudgel to show that im right because DUer of color agrees with me. I've seen that from a poster here.

I think I responded with the suggestion they go on and build their own coalition, lol.

[luvspeas]

27. Why?

When the term is used accurately it should not be implied or applied to either black people or their thoughts. So to say that it implies that "all black people thought the same or something" is really irrelevant to the use of the term.

The use of POC or people of color includes not only African Americans but any darker skinned person or peoples who have been treated unjustly by the power structure. It is a much more accurate and inclusive term in identifying who is regarded in this country as less privileged or not receiving fair, equal and compassionate regard that people of lighter and often European heritage receive. It's a social identifier that goes beyond ethnicity, is completely arbitrary and has no biological or cultural connotation. It illustrates the criteria the power structure uses to stratify and discriminate in our country.

So I do not understand why you are asking "the black people" about it. What about Latinos? Indiginous peoples? Southeast Asian peoples? They all fall under the umbrella because they too have suffered discrimination and institutional persecution because they are POC.