African American
Related: About this forumThis gets so tiresome ...
Question: Why do Black folks support HRC by such wide margins ... after the terrible treatment in 2008?
(DUer of Color responds to the question)
DUer's Response: "Because they think Bernie is Republican or a Communist."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6846570
My response: "No ... We think he is not speaking to us ... Nor, is he listening to us about our impression that he is not speaking to us."
DUer's response: "His proposals will lift everyone up - can't you see that?" (with a side portion of Bad HRC)
I don't know if it's ignorance, arrogance or what, to think that "I/we don't have to speak to you because we think we speak for everyone."
And I fear, with every passing day, and every ignored sentiment, the benefit of the "ignorance" doubt, will shift farther to the "arrogance or what" camp. That is not how one should approach/woo the African-American vote.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I don't understand how any one white person can claim to know how any AA feels about anything. I don't understand how that you can say 1000 times that you wish Sanders would speak to your issues and not have his supporters get it. I don't understand how Bernie believes that economic justice translates to social justice for AAs. It doesn't, it won't and it cant. But, I guess because Bernie Sanders marched with MLK that makes everything okay.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Those doing it don't care what I feel, or think ... neither is of any importance, and that comes across loudly, and clearly. But still, I am being divisive when I point this out. And, I am doing the bidding of the oligarchic, ruling elite, when I tell them they are no ally of mine.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)but people who think exactly like them.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)If I'm told I don't by people I have reason to believe.
What you say concerns me. (Point of information, I am "white", I assume by my appearance - neither I nor my parents were into genealogy.)
If there are concerns about Bernie, I would appreciate being educated, because I like him and if there is reason to be concerned I would like to know.
I appreciate your consideration.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Bernie Sanders was arrested while leading a civil rights demonstration way back in the 1960s. He is rated 97% by the NAACP. He marched on Washington with Martin Luther King, Jr. He has an outstanding record on supporting civil rights.
He was among the first to object to the killing in Ferguson.
Bernie Sanders was in CORE. He is a leader on civil rights issues for African-Americans.
Good Heavens! Talk about unfairness! I'm sorry, but all it takes is a Google search.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #34)
Nay This message was self-deleted by its author.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)was still a Goldwater group.
He was not just speaking to them. He was leading protests and marching with Martin Luther King, Jr. in Washington in 1963.
See my post No. 29. This has already been clarified and posted and discussed on DU.
We all want our candidates to be respected.
Hillary was backing Goldwater in 1964. She changed her mind and deserves respect for that, but Bernie was already aware of the wrong of racism and backing African-Americans and civil rights at that time.
Please be fair and show respect for Bernie Sanders' proud history. Thank you.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)for changing her views once she left her Republican home.
Not everyone is lucky enough to be raised by Democrats.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)once you've stated some thing in that fashion, you have ended the conversation.
Could you clarify?
daleanime
(17,796 posts)What can you tell some one about their own feelings/experiences? Nothing, you acknowledge their feelings and the discussion ends.
Now when it something that they think/believe, then we can go into reasons and values. And the exchange begins again.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)the OP is stated in a fashion that at the very least does not encourage discussion. I simply noted that.
Now if your after my thoughts, I think that the son of Jewish immigrants who regularly mentioned specifically the problem of young Black unemployment during his stump speech is unlikely to be weak in those areas. But that's what I think, definitely open for discussion.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)He has a right to vent. This group doesn't exist for your benefit. It's not up to you to decide which discussions are acceptable or how they should be framed. This is one small place on a board comprised overwhelmingly of white people where they can talk about some of the racism and dismissal they encounter on a daily basis.
Now, if you wish to ask the OP what his concerns are, you should do so directly rather than engaging in rather weak rhetorical games.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)Nor have I tried to be insulting with my 'weak rhetorical games'. I have to admit to being unsure why that seems to irate you.
When we post here, most of us are looking for response, yes? Left my original post because the OP didn't seem to offer a chance to continue the talk. This allowed the poster to pick it up or not. So far he hasn't. If you can tell me why this is a bad behavior I would appreciate it. If not I apologize for being a bane on your evening.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)They are not separate. The question is really simple: Do you care about other human beings enough to listen to their concerns, or do you insist only you know what is important? The latter view is alienating and fails if the goal is to attract supporters.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)would be a winning position?
"What I think" leaves room open for questions and reasons.
"How I feel" is a statement of fact.
Now if you feel that that is 'alienating', there's nothing I can do but apologize. But if you only think that it's 'alienating', and are willing to tell me why you think so, then this conversation can continue.
"Goal is to attract supporters"? Here? Yes, I would like to get Bernie some supporters, but I'm fairly sure that everyone who comes here is more then normally interested in politics and very capable of making up their own mind. This is simply where we come to share information and sharpen our own opinions. 
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)This is not at all complicated. Either you give a shit about what others feel and think or you do not. Istrongblackman made his point in the OP. Now, I would have thought his meaning was clear, but If you did not, you could have asked for clarification. Rather than simply having a conversation and asking what he means, you engage in rather weak rhetorical games to justify why you shouldn't bother.
As for "facts," neuroscience shows that emotion and cognition are linked, that people cannot think without the functioning of the emotional part of their brain. This contrived response of yours is a rather elaborate ploy to justify why you don't have to care.
People are indeed capable of making up their minds, and the polls show just that.
daleanime
(17,796 posts) 
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Maybe in your world, but not in mine.
No one is telling you how to feel. The POC are telling you how they feel about Bernie. You, and other white Bernie supporters, ignore their reservations about Bernie, and go ahead and tell them why their perceptions, and feelings are not valid.
Not a winning strategy.
Each Democratic voter will vote for the candidate that THEY see reflects their interests and wants in a candidate. If you are trying to convert them to be Bernie supporters, you should listen to their concerns very carefully before trying to tell them their concerns are wrong. They aren't wrong, they are just different concerns. Most white people don't get that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Well stated, though I *feel* you may have lost him/her at:
JustAnotherGen
(31,856 posts)And to not respond to those comments. Too many willfully ignorant.
sheshe2
(83,850 posts)Loud and clear.
onpatrol98
(1,989 posts)I mean, it's not like these are new candidates without a history. I do want to hear proposals. But, when you've been on the scene awhile you should have an extensive history of what you've done.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=400357
He has a long history. I'm going to check it out now. I was pleased to see that wage equity wasn't a new schtick for him.
H.R. 692 (103rd): Liveable Wage Act of 1993
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Jan 27, 1993
Referred to Committee: Jan 27, 1993
Of course, Hilary Clinton was talking about healthcare while her husband was in office.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=400357#sponsor=300022
But, you really get a good sense for what ACTIONS they were taking on behalf of the American people when provided power. I mean, do you want power for power's sake or do you have an agenda that you started years ago that now you need to move forward on.
S. 968 (107th): Healthy and High Performance Schools Act of 2001
Sponsor: Sen. Hillary Clinton [D-NY, 2001-2009]
Introduced: May 25, 2001
Referred to Committee: May 25, 2001
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)back when he was risking a lot to speak out.
He has not faltered.
He was in CORE.
He has a 97% rating from the NAACP. See my post. And further down, I provide the link to an a DU post summarizing his voting record and his history of strong activism for African-American issues.
Bernie was one of the first to respond to the killing in Ferguson. Civil rights are still a major issue for Bernie.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)I'd like to see Bernie Sanders make proposals that are specifically aimed at the black community, and state "I'm trying to help the black community because economic justice may still leave them behind, and we've seen that historically".
I'd like to see Hillary do this as well.
If a candidate makes such proposals, specifically around racial issues, and not couched in "socioeconomic mumbo-jumbo", I will campaign for him/her.
It is my personal belief that sticking one's neck out for the black community costs a candidate white votes. It would certainly cost them Republican votes, and it would be repeated ad nauseum during a general election.
That's why having the guts to do it anyway would mean so much to me. Put "putting a dent in institutional racism and changing the American culture to be more inclusive and supportive of people of color" in your platform.
BTW, is either candidate wooing the Mexican-American vote? I haven't paid attention.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Much they love us. They all support immigration reform. Bernie, however, was one of the first to support Obama's executive action. I trust Bernie to do right by us than any other candidate.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)from either campaign is doing anywhere near enough of that.
Bernie has stated on immigration that he supports reform and a path to citizenship for immigrants in the US but that he opposes H1-B and other similar visas that provide opportunities to work (to be exploited here) but do not offer opportunities for citizenship. I can understand these short-term visas for students who might want to come for a year of living in the US, say as nannies in homes, but I think the programs should be very carefully supervised so that the experiences are really educational and not just an opportunity for an American family or employer to exploit some young person from another country. I think the H1-B visas should be abolished. It is un-American to treat poor immigrants like second-class citizens. If an employer wants to hire someone from another country, the employer should take the responsibility of sponsoring that person as an immigrant. We don't have temporary Americans. We have guests who are treated well in our country or we don't have guests at all. That's my view. And when our unemployment rate is as high as it is today (the real reate) we should not give out work visas too easily.
Bernie is going to South Carolina soon. We shall see what he says. I believe he made a good statement today on racism.
We cannot win the 2016 election unless we are united on racism.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)I believe he made a good statement today on racism.
Could you give a link? I couldn't find it with Google.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Statement on Charleston Church Shootings
Thursday, June 18, 2015
WASHINGTON, June 18 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued the following statement today on the killing of nine people by a white man at a black church in Charleston, South Carolina:
“The Charleston church killings are a tragic reminder of the ugly stain of racism that still taints our nation. This senseless violence fills me with outrage, disgust and a deep, deep sadness. The hateful killing of nine people praying inside a church is a horrific reminder that, while we have made significant progress in advancing civil rights in this country, we are far from eradicating racism. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and their congregation.”
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/statement-on-charleston-church-shootings
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)I think the country needs it, especially in the wake of Charleston. We need some truth and then some healing.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Response to azmom (Reply #59)
BainsBane This message was self-deleted by its author.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)And we're not happy about it. In fact, some people are very angry about it and feel that he let us down. I have seen him do a few things, but nothing that really made a dent in the bigger picture.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)She can hardly be blamed for either of those things.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)How many times have people here tried to delegimiate someone's opinion by insisting they are "trying to speak for everyone," when the person only gave their opinion? Now they claim Bernie speaks for everyone. Well no, he doesn't. Clearly his message has resonance with them, but they are not everyone. The assumption that their needs and concerns are universal is in fact what privilege and entitlement is all about. I would bet that a person of color would be far less likely to presume that their concerns are universal. I certainly know that I would never presume such a thing. Yet those folks not only presume, they refuse to hear that others see things differently.
If you don't agree, you are designated as the enemy, allied with corporate power and Goldman Sachs.
It is precisely that approach that dooms their efforts.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I've been in this exact back and forth for the last couple of days.
And the sad part is ... if they would just get over themselves, they might open a door of understand that might accomplish their efforts.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)was a student at the University of Chicago and has a 97% rating from the NAACP.
The Radical Education of Bernie Sanders
...as a college student he organized sit-ins against segregation, worked for a union, protested police brutality and attended the 1963 March on Washington. Throughout that time, the central theme of his life has never wavered.
...By his 23rd birthday, Sanders had worked for a meatpackers union, marched for civil rights in Washington D.C., joined the university socialists and been arrested at a civil rights demonstration.
...The civil rights movement also became a home for him. He became leaders of an NAACP ally called the Congress of Racial Equality at a time when most civil rights activists were black. He was arrested while demonstrating for desegregated public schools in Chicago.
...On a frigid Tuesday afternoon in January, 1962 the 20-year-old from Brooklyn stood on the steps of University of Chicago administration building and railed in the wind against the college’s housing segregation policy. “We feel it is an intolerable situation, when Negro and white students of the university cannot live together in university owned apartments,” the young bespectacled student told the few-dozen classmates gathered there. Then he led them into the building in protest, and camped the night outside the president’s office. It was Chicago’s first civil rights sit-in.
http://time.com/3896500/bernie-sanders-vermont-campaign-radical/#3896500/bernie-sanders-vermont-campaign-radical/
I copied this from a DU post here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=10026741056
Bernie's voting record on civil rights and other issues is at that DU page.
A simple Google search proves Bernie Sanders' excellent record and statements on race and civil rights.
And may I add that while Bernie was leading a civil rights demonstration at the University of Chicago and joining Martin Luther King's march on Washington, Hillary Clinton was still a Republican and supporting Barry Goldwater for president. That's OK. She changed her mind. Bernie has not changed his mind.
Lies. Lies. Lies.
I want to be respectful, but please research and state the truth not lies.
This is not a matter of opinion. Bernie's history, voting record and ratings show what a strong advocate he is for African-American and other minority rights.
I was a student in 1963. I remember the civil rights era, the civil rights movement. What Bernie did then was not easy. He was bold and stood up for equal rights for African-Americans when it was really hard to do so, when black and white college students were being killed for taking stances in favor of African-American equality.
Please do the research and be fair. Thank you.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)And I wasn't talking about Sanders in that post. I was talking about white privilege. Don't call me a liar when you can't even bother to read the few sentences I wrote. You have no clue what you're talking about because you refuse to follow the discussion. This is about posters like you who shut down discussions of racism to talk about your own interests, who tell African Americans what they should care about. There are issues that are far more important than the careers of politicians. I'm sorry you don't understand that.
The only point I made about Sanders was that his message resonates with you all but not everyone. That is not a lie. Polling data shows as much.
This is the African American group, not a place where people are expected to put great white men above their own concerns.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I am very aware of the justified sensitivity to the sense of white privilege on DU. I grew up watching segregation and the degradation of black people. I cried at the ugliness of it even when I was a child (pictures of the National Guard at the school in Little Rock) even though I was white. I will never forget the feeling of sorrow in my heart at that time. My father was a Methodist minister, and I was raised in a family that had a history of abolitionists and fighters for the Union in the Civil War.
The unfairness of segregation and racism has stung me all my life , but I find myself unable to convey my solidarity with African-American issues convincingly enough to persuade African-Americans on DU that I do understand these issues as well as a white person can.
On the other hand, the discussion in this thread as I understand it is the accusation that Bernie Sanders' emphasis on economic issues is viewed as an indication that he is not sensitive about and not interested in the issues of racism in our country. That is false, and I think that needs to be corrected.
I am very aware of the inability of any white person including myself to fully comprehend the pain and the anger that racism elicits in African-Americans. I try to stay away from threads dealing with race because I have found that when I try to make comments, I am always turned away and chastised because I am white and therefore cannot possibly understand what African-Americans endure. I'm quite sure that is true.
On the other hand, I do feel pain myself when I am rudely scolded on threads because I am white and therefore perceived by others on the thread as not capable of understanding their problems. At the same time, I recognize that as a white woman I do not share the experience of being African-American. At the same time, I can no more change my race than African-Americans can change theirs. And the sense of being excluded is just as painful for me as a white person as it is for African-Americans.
I do not want to cause any discomfort to anyone, especially not to African-Americans who I know based on my limited experience suffer indignities on an almost daily basis that I cannot imagine. So I apologize if my comments cause anyone discomfort.
But I do think we should be fair to Bernie Sanders, all of us. He has a strong record on civil rights and false statements suggesting that he is weak on the issue need to be addressed and corrected.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)This isn't about you being white; nor, the perception of you ... it's about telling someone (a group) a life experienced based something, and having that person (group) respond "don't you see, from MY experience, your something SHOULD be, Not Something."
In this specific case, I have said Bernie's economic primacy message doesn't resonate with African-Americans because it conflicts with our life's experience ... and DU responds, "well, it should resonate with you because it resonates with us", or they provide a history lesson of Bernie, that was never questioned.
snpsmom
(684 posts)the idea that the long history of racism can be put to rest simply by labeling it a social construct and saying, "let's move on." Easy to do when your lived experience doesn't include generational trauma. White folks need to check our personal emotional response to black folks' expressions of anger / frustration / pain and listen rather than counter with our ideas of what's needed. If we want to be allies, we should stop injecting our feelings and needs into the mix and instead provide the asked for support.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)it yet, but there's an article on The People's View titled "On Chasing the Archie Bunker Voter", where one part discusses Bernie commenting on race and minority support for Dems. According to that article, he said something (similar to many DUers) along the lines of racism being over. Even I couldn't believe what I read. This is supposed to be among the most popular politician on here and sites like DailyKos. I was saying earlier that this might answer my question about why he doesn't address social (especially racial) issues much, though. I still like and respect him overall, but I'm not going to look at him the same again. How does he expect to win nationally with those types of comments?
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)If that is really true. . . my God.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)That was insulting enough. But that was just the shot. Here’s the chaser. Sen. Sanders then went on to say that Democrats had to regain the “working class vote”.
Let that sink in. A sitting United States senator, caucusing with Democrats, running for the Democratic presidential nomination, an avowed socialist, made a distinction between black votes and working class votes. In his mind, the two are mutually exclusive, not overlapping in a Venn diagram. Blacks over there, working class over here.
Unfortunately, there aren't quotes so we don't know exactly what he said.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I would like to see the quote because if blacks and to a lesser extent Latinos, glbtq persons, Asians, Jews, and white moderates and liberals stop voting for Democrats as a bloc we're screwed because a lot of white people vote as a bloc and they vote Republican.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)"liberals". You can't say anything re: BS & race, without them dragging out some 50 year old dossier. I had a post hidden, where his supporters accused me of "race baiting", so it obviously struck a raw nerve. However, it won't stop me from asking questions, and making the same observations I've made from the beginning.
It's clear to me that BS and his supporters don't like Obama, and I'm not willing to concede that "it's all about policy". What's even more obvious is that they have zero respect for the party's most loyal constituency, and since Bernie's not running for a senate seat in VT, I don't see him broadening his appeal much beyond the demographic that already thinks he walks on water.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)I was merely pointing out the similarities between BS' & McGovern's kickoff events. Go figure. 
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I thought maybe... Just maybe... He was concerned that you were 'race baiting' white people, LOL.
I nearly commented on the other thread about POC and women. Then someone was demanding proof of coalitions. There certainly were coalitions where I worked.
The corporation was ordered by the Federal Government and EEOC back in the Carter years (and the reason he didn't get a second term, IMO, as I argued with Reagan Democrats) to hire thousands of people to give some 'equal opportunity.'
'Fine, we'll get right on it,' said the company. They promptly filled about 90% of the new hires with white males. Then they hired hispanic males until there was about 5% left to hire. They hired black men and white women and women of color within that 5%. But black women had a double burden, even more than the black men and white women. They had to have degrees while the white men only had to have high school diplomas.
Guess who made a real life coalition at that company and stood for each other? White women and black men and women. Then Reagan and the white men cut all our throats. Some of us haven't forgotten it.
I'm sure I'll be called out for saying such a terrible thing. but that is what happened. The solidarity went poof and the 'economic' thing didn't protect us when it got right down to it.
Yes, I am a terrible person. But the truth is terrible and we were screwed economically by that voting block. It wasn't like we hadn't heard them murmuring against' affirmative action, quotas, not qualified, blah, blah, blah for some years.
Some times, a person tells you what they are without the direct words being used that are used to hide behind now. People were pretty upfront back then.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)office. The last candidate who lost the black vote, lost the primaries. The candidates can either speak TO us, or keep speaking ABOUT us, as an afterthought. Wooing back Reagan Democrats may be a priority for some, but I guarantee it will alienate the rest of us.
Number23
(24,544 posts)
I have no doubt that Bernie Sanders is probably a great ally in alot of ways when it comes to issues of race. But crap like this as well as the STEADFAST DETERMINATION of his supporters to shit on and scream over every single ATTEMPT of a conversation on race as well as accuse everyone of having "fake" concern about this issue is the albatross around this man's neck.
"Stop voting based on race." What an incredibly ignorant and PRIVILEGED thing to say.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)completely with quotes. It doesn't get any better.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)The Archie Bunker vote is lost to us Democrats so we might as well look to those whose vote is there for the taking. It's counterproductive to chase segments of the electorate that are heavily disinclined to vote the way you want when there are segments of the electorate who are only a ride away from the polls who will vote the way we want.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Why didn't he, like supporters cited in the OP, just say black people don't know what's good for them... This is going to turn people off. It's a shame, because he has some good ideas and I feel that HE is a good man. Or I did until I read that dismissive piece. But then I'm white and have to listen to those who know more to see how it sounds. And it does not sound good.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)when I first saw it from Cha yesterday. I agree, it is a shame. I guess it goes to show that even Bernie has his flaws.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)In a more pleasing manner, I'm kind of done bothering. Let them find out and address it or don't.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 23, 2015, 02:13 PM - Edit history (1)
That was insulting enough. But that was just the shot. Here’s the chaser. Sen. Sanders then went on to say that Democrats had to regain the “working class vote”.Let that sink in. A sitting United States senator, caucusing with Democrats, running for the Democratic presidential nomination, an avowed socialist, made a distinction between black votes and working class votes. In his mind, the two are mutually exclusive, not overlapping in a Venn diagram. Blacks over there, working class over here.
President Obama showed Democrats how to win. And it wasn’t by slavishly pining after the “working class vote”.
Let’s call that vote for what it is: white voters who left the Democratic coalition in droves after the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, and have stayed away ever since then, generation after generation giving its allegiance to the GOP.
I will let our Twitter friend Rootless intrude here for a moment:
Q: Why won't archie bunker vote dem?
A: He hates black people more than he loves prosperity
Q: But we are the 99%, FDR, stuff
A: Read a book
rootless (@root_e) June 16, 2015
That blog is written by a gay man who is a POC, but some DUers have threatened to try to ban anyone who refers to it. Because early on, the blogger was upset about Obama not supporting marriage equality, but changed his mind. Mostly by a member who went on and on about it but contantly dissed Obama himself. So, what's with the blog, other than he supports Obama 110%?
The blog is citing a post by the author Liberal Librarian who posts at The Obama Diary. The only reason I don't have that link is that TOD is so image and video heavy my browser freezes up but it gets the news first.
I never found anything wrong with BS personally until this and still like his policies - but what kind of principles talk that way? The remarks sound like DUers who whitesplain. 'Don't worry your pretty little head, it's all under control. Now shut up.'
As usual, POC get the short end of the stick.
EDIT to add TOD link. I released some restrictions and now it loads:
http://theobamadiary.com/2015/06/17/on-chasing-the-archie-bunker-voter/
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)him?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Bernie's ratings on social issues are extremely, extremely high, higher than Hillary's on some things. Look at his voting record.
Iowa, Vermont and New Hampshire are not states in which race issues are paramount. We shall see what he does and says in South Carolina.
JustAnotherGen
(31,856 posts)Then follow with OH, MI, NY, NJ and CA.
Per the US census 2010 - the state with the highest concentration of African Americans is Mississippi. That state isn't going blue for a long time.
He should focus on the three in the top ten that we have a chance of winning.
If he goes to Ohio and Pennsylvania and speaks to voting rights - he can get people to support him.
It's still early in the race - very early. There is no sure thing. There just isn't. I won't be voting until June of next year - and I anticipate the field is going to look different for both parties at that time.
In the meantime - his grass roots team needs to get out in MD and VA because you have one candididate from that area who has already declared - and another one in the pipe. And one has a strong record of I did.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)South Carolina will be too late for me. It's not likely, he (his campaign) hasn't heard the concern that his economic primacy message leaves African-Americans, flat.
Should he travel to Las Vegas, his first stop with a less than 90% white population, and continue with the economic primacy message (I.e., tying African-American issues to economics, e.g. talking about African-American unemployment) ... it will go a long way to pushing me down a different road.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's not Bernie's fault. But it is quite a problem.
We in California are nearly left out of the primary process as are people in many other states.
We are perhaps the most diverse state in the country when it comes to race, certainly one of the most diverse.
You make a very good point about race being displaced as an issue in the primary season in general because of the timing of the primaries. A very good point.
Bernie's message is focused on economic issues because they are the issues that are the most pressing for the largest number of Americans at this time.
Racial inequality has been a huge issue since the beginning of our country.
But the economic inequality issues have grown since the Nixon and Reagan presidencies to be devastating to many, many people including people of all races. As a nation, we can unite around economic issues and perhaps that will start us on the road toward uniting about dealing with other issues including race, women's rights, etc.
I am sorry. I understand that race is the number one issue for you. It is a major issue for me. Unfortunately, many, many Americans do not see it as even an issue. And those are the Americans that elect all the Republicans to Congress.
Voting rights are central to race issues.
But so are housing rights, and housing rights and healthcare rights, education and training rights, all those rights are essentially economic rights. When you have a party like the Republicans for whom Reaganomics and "free" market and trickle down economics are the mantra, you cannot do much about the economic injustice that feeds and nourishes racism.
I realize that the connection between economics and racism may not be apparent to African-Americans who see the police brutality and profiling of Black people.
But for me as a white woman, I understand that economic issues are the basis for much of the racism among white people. We shall see what the economic profile is of the killer in South Carolina. But I would bet that he is not wealthy. Once you get into well educated, wealthy white circles, racism is at least not openly expressed among white people in most of the country.
The people who are vulnerable to racist ideas in the North are usually white, not well educated and poor. There is a very obvious link between socioeconomic status outside the South and racism outside the South.
I am not sure about the South. Racism used to be prevalent in all walks of society in the South back in the 1950s and 1960s. I have been told that has not changed much, but I do not know. Still, in general, the most overt racism is among those white people who struggle the hardest to make ends meet and those who have the least education and economic opportunity.
So improving the economy for working people and the middle class is an important part of dealing with racism. When people feel positive about their economic opportunities and futures, they are more likely to be willing to explore new ways of thinking. And ending racism in America is about getting racists to explore new ways of thinking about African-Americans.
I would like to add that while African-Americans are most affected by racism and rightfully keep talking about it and focusing on it in the discussion, in the light of the events in recent years, including these killings in South Carolina, there is virtually nothing that African-Americans can do about ending racism without working hand-in-hand with white people at this point.
We have laws against discrimination. They could be strengthened and enforced better. But because white people are still the majority of voters in most states, white people have to be on board to change them. African-Americans cannot change them without entering into a dialogue and working with white people to change them. It just can't be done. Therefore alienating white people is at this point counterproductive in the civil rights struggle. The fight against racism needs to be a fight that includes not just all people of color but many white people who join in the desire to end racism.
Why? Because we have laws about the issues, say voting rights. They are under attack, but white people have to help defend them.
Police brutality and profiling are not allowed by law. They happen anyway. And those who profile and are brutal get by with it because white juries and white prosecutors allow it. So without white juries and white prosecutors who oppose racism, there is not much hope in ending the expressions of racism we see today. White people need to be a big part of the struggle at this point.
African-Americans can demonstrate and fight all they want, but the mathematics of the matter mean that the first thing African-Americans have to do is to make sure that white people are on their side.
Insulting sympathetic white people is not exactly a very good way to get the white votes and support that are needed.
Bernie Sanders was fighting against racism in the early 1960s and continues to vote for racial equality. He has a 97% rating from the NAACP. You can't get much better than that, not as a white senator from Vermont, a majority white state.
Bernie is more likely than many realize to be our next president. No candidate can claim at this time to be a sure thing or to be inevitable. So it is important to listen carefully to all the candidates and to remember that ending racism depends on getting support from white people.
That is the reality. I'm sorry that it is. But that is the reality. It's just the math of the matter. Now I have said it. I apologize in advance for offending you. I know this is a difficult reality for some to accept. I would be very angry too if I were African-American. But this is the way it is.
Bernie is on the right track on this.
Similarly, we women cannot achieve equal rights and opportunities without gently persuading men that it is in THEIR interest to make sure we get them. Men are not the majority, but we still need their support so there is no good purpose in shutting them out, not listening to them, or trying to do everything on our own. It will not work.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Fuuuuuuuck that. People who would withdraw their votes because POC aren't asking for it nicely enough? You should be embarrassed. You're not an ally with a mindset like that. You're just pandering here- and not too well, either.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's good to know what is right and what you want. But you have to figure out how to get it, how to persuade people who think that you want is wrong to agree with you that what you want and what is right really is right.
That is what I am talking about.
The art of persuasion, winning friends and influencing people. The fact that you are right does not necessarily mean that you are persuasive.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 19, 2015, 01:30 AM - Edit history (1)
Actually is. You seem to think I (or POC here) need to woo Bernie, and sweetly enough for your approval.
You've got that eggsactly backwards. thats pretty funny!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's a matter of wooing people who are not really racists but are not really committed to ending racism either. It's the people on the fence who think the police "are just doing their job" and that Root killed people because he was mentally ill and not because he was racist. (Although he is probably both.)
Bernie is not a racist. You don't have to worry about him. You have to worry about the people who protect racism with their blaming "both sides" as if there was any side to blame other than the racist side. It's those on the fence you need to win over.
It's also those who are no your side and are white that you need to avoid insulting and shutting out and pushing away. People like me. You don't need to push me away. You need my support. And you have it. But insulting me makes me feel like just not even reading posts about race.
I'm sorry to have to say that, but it is true.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)But not convinced about Bernie- which is what we were discussing before you tried to flip the conversation.
We will see if he adds more policy proposals to his website or stump speeches, I guess. It'll be interesting.
Bye!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Oh, if only the rest of us had the luxury of "ignoring" race because it upsets our delicate feelings.
Very informative post. Not at all surprising, but informative nonetheless.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)in the back. Be a good African American' seems to be the implied message, and that mindset is pervasive here. 
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Whitesplaining. It's an awesome idea - but one that's been discussed here and elsewhere for at least thirty years. Ha ha.
Learning to be an ally means listening. And realizing others do know better, so think twice before you pat yourself on the back for having a revelation- you've probably stolen the idea. Lol.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6866763
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)but just pointing it out.
African-Americans need white support in order to get justice.
Alienating white people will not get justice. White people sit on juries and are elected as prosecutors. So it's a difficult situation but all minorities and people in socially weaker positions have to face the same difficulty. Being true to their own experience and dealing with their unique problems while having to rely on the support of people who do not share those experiences and problems. The secret and the perhaps the only way to bridge the divide between one's own experiences and those of others is to "bridge the divide" and find common ground.
I don't see that separating oneself from those who do not share a unique experience, refusing to find common ground, will help.
LGBT have used an excellent strategy of employing straight spokespeople combined with their own voices to win big battles for equal rights. LGBTs have used the internet to campaign positively in favor of equality -- featuring their parents and others who are straight and who support their equality.
That is a winning strategy.
I think a lot of the inability of certain other minority or socially weak (in numbers) groups to make the progress that LGBTs are making is due to the fact that there is a lot of vying for power and authority within their communities. Just guessing, but based on my experience as a white woman, I think that is a large contributing factor.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Don't give police departments military style equipment. Instead, start creating jobs for young people.
Senator Sanders is now trying to launch a $5.5 Billion bill in the Senate for employment of youth between the ages of 16 and 24.
Wednesday, August 20, 2014
In the wake of continuing unrest in Ferguson, Missouri, Sen. Bernie Sanders said on Wednesday that he will introduce legislation to address the national crisis of black youth unemployment. In a letter to Senate colleagues, Sanders called for a thorough federal investigation of the Aug. 9 death of an unarmed black teenager, Michael Brown, who was shot by a police officer in the St. Louis suburb. “We also must recognize, however, that there is an economic crisis facing our nation’s youth, particularly young African-Americans,” Sanders said. In the St. Louis metro area, almost half of young African-American men are unemployed, Sanders said. Nationwide, the youth unemployment rate today is more than 20 percent and African-American youth unemployment is nearly 35 percent.
“If we are going to address the issue of crime in low-income areas and in African-American communities, it might be a good idea that instead of putting military style equipment into police departments in those areas, we start investing in jobs for the young people there who desperately need them.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/21/1323382/-Bernie-Sanders-Responds-To-Ferguson
Sanders has supported civil rights for African-American since he was a young man. His emphasis in this campaign is economic issues. He notes repeatedly that the unemployment rate among African-American youth is unacceptably high and condemns the fact that so many Americans are imprisoned.
Why are people falsely claiming that he does not care about African-Americans? He does care and has shown that he cares. If people paid attention to what Bernie Sanders is saying, they would realize that these meme that Bernie does not care about the interests of African-Americans is simply false.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)You just gave several examples that are not in fact about racism. The poster was talking about race, and you talked about class and militarization of the police, not racism.
Now, I understand you believe Sanders more important than the citizens he seeks to represent. That reverence for great men is obvious throughout GD. Voters, however, have the right to question and vet politicians, even ones you insist should never be criticized. Moreover, you are in the African American group. You should at least give people the courtesy of reading what they actually write rather than falling back on ingenuous strawmen and excuses not to discuss the issue. This whole schtick gets extremely tiresome, as is the very point of this OP, and here you are repeating it again.
JustAnotherGen
(31,856 posts)
I'm also tired of supporters not being willing to admit a candidates weak points.
Next summer - I anticipate having to get out and knock on doors for our candidate.
No one should be able to help me overcome an objection to Clinton or Sanders or Webb (Chaffee doesn't register for me at all) better than an early supporter.
If its O'Malley - I can speak to his work in Baltimore - - he knows it was too effective. In Hunterdon County NJ - I can say that then argue against my candidate,
In Newark - I can still argue against my candidate, point out the racial make up and crime stats of Baltimore when he took office, talk about training for job opportunities and safety in cities, show his record as Governor of a state with one of the highest black populations in America then say -
And over here - so and so is beating up on black people.
JustAnotherGen
(31,856 posts)No.
He could have people with trade certification within one year. Then set them up in apprenticeships.
The disconnect on our side is everyone is talking to a middle class concern - how does your son pay for his college degree to become a grade school teacher. How does your daughter afford pre med?
That is extremely important.
Jobs are extremely important.
However trade school seems to be thrown into the trash for the middle class. It's an urban and rural consideration.
O'Malley is heading in that direction.
I did this to get crime under control. This worked - this didn't. The next step is. We can - by doing this.
Clinton and Sanders have to get on board with addressing the lost AA girl in Newark NJ and the white 18 year old male in upper peninsula Michigsn who wants something more out of life than Wal Mart.
Neither one has been prepared to rebuild America - she can't weld - he can't install solar shingles - January 2018. It will be another 4-6 years before the free college people will be job ready.
We don't have that kind of time. We need to fix the bridges now.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I'm sure Bernie will agree. He has offered a bill in Congress to support the hiring of unemployed young Americans which is code for youth who will, based on the unemployment statistics, include many young African-Americans.
In virtually every speech, Bernie addresses the issue of youth unemployment with special emphasis on the fact that African-American youth unemployment is far higher than the unemployment of any other group. He is outspoken on this issue. A lot of people are not listening to him and therefore don't know what he is saying.
Like you, I am a very strong advocate for apprenticeships. I lived in Germany and Austria for some years. They have a strong program. Bernie is a student of democratic socialism, the system in much of Europe and trade schools and apprenticeships are common there. I'm sure he is informed about it.
I am with you 100% on apprenticeships and trade school training.
My father was very brilliant and well educated, but he could make things, and he used to say that everyone needs to learn to make things. It's so important. My children learned to knit in German-speaking kindergarten over there.
One of the reasons that I am so opposed to these trade agreements that lead to the export of American industrial capacity and jobs is that I believe that much of the creativity in our economy has come in the past from people who knew how to do things like make furniture or electronic equipment or plow fields and plant or sew or make tools. And now we Americans are not learning those skills and not practicing them. Those who do and make things can invent. Science if great but science accompanied by practical skills and combined with the ability to make things is much more valuable.
JustAnotherGen
(31,856 posts)NY had a BOCES program when I was growing up.
My husband moved her in 2001 because there was only one UNESCO certified metal restoration specialist in the US. He got into the commercial aspect of metals by working on the Pantheon restoration. He's been providing the apprenticeship opportunity. But he grabs them while they are still in high school.
His "fair haired girl" is a 25 year old black woman who used to hide in her bath tub in Camden NJ. She's on track to make 80K this year living in Doylestown PA in her own condo - with zero college debt.
He started his apprenticeship at 13 after school and Saturdays in Italy - took the equivalent of a GED at 15 - went to art school - in Firenze -did his mandatory military service . . . Stayed longer and while there (89 - 92) learned HVAC.
I see O'Malley gets this - and will be able to easily craft a message to the black community - as he's had to over the years.
I also think he has the guts to say - many poor urban blacks and rural whites and blacks approaching adulthood or in early adulthood did not receive a public education that prepared them to attend university in September 2017.
It's not his fault - he hasn't been a national politician with the ability to work on it nationally.
He only can speak to what worked in Maryland.
I would hope Sanders, Clinton, and Webb would reach out to him for ideas of "I did" for a general election. I didn't give lip service or make promises -
I did. Someone is going to have o defend their record in 2020 - it might be a good idea to actually draw upon ideas that worked so the defense is easier.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)If we are to be able to compete in the world economy, we need to learn skills as well as "book-learning."
I have friends with college degrees who work as handymen. The ones I know are white, and that is their choice because they like working with their hands.
As I said, my dad loved working with his hands but was also educated. We should give everyone the opportunity to be who they are and that means not just in terms of say gender identity but also in terms of what they like to do and can do well. And working with your hands does not mean you are not as intelligent of whatever as people who do clerical work.
I happen to love to sew, etc. I think that many of us express our creativity and are very good at working with our hands. Our society as established a hierarchy of believing that those who do well at academic subjects necessarily earn more than those who do well in the trades. Not necessarily so. Bill Gates did not bother to finish college. He had more creative things to do.
Personally, I would not have made it through high school had it not been for the music courses. I was not a good student until I got to college. I have always been a very active person. Maybe that is why. Once I got to college and was more mature, I blossomed as a student and got better and better grades as I progressed in school.
So young people should have the opportunity to explore and find out what they do well and what they can do for a living. And we should be less rigid in my opinion about pushing kids in one direction or another.
I'm pretty sure already that my grandson is headed for maybe engineering and making things. That's what he likes to do and he is very young. We shall see, but I believe in encouraging children to find their direction in life for themselves as much as possible.
But we do all need to know how to read and math basics. Because if we don't learn those things, we get cheated over and over.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)then, in their first post, write: "So, I hear you saying ..." then, stop, and wait for a response; rather than, launching into a history lesson, that I already know ... or worse, a MYstory lesson, that I know more of.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)
randys1
(16,286 posts)You know what I bet?
I bet that unlike some white libertarians who claim to be liberals, if YOU dont get your way, whatever that is, or if YOU dont get your preferred candidate, you wont whine and cry about it and refuse to participate in the election or participate in such a manner as to risk electing a rightwing asshole.
That is what I bet.
And how I know you are not likely to do that is you, as a minority, as an African American, actually has a lot to lose if a rightwing prick is president.
p.s.
and if you chose to sit it out, who could blame you...not me
you have a right to do that and much worse, but you wont...
I also dont think ANY white politician deserves your vote.
That the white democrats always do, is a gift.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You would be correct ... Hell, in my 54 years, I have rarely gotten my political way; nor, has MY preferred candidate even run ... But, on those many occasions my "best of the rest" candidate didn't win the Democratic Nomination, I not only voted for the Democratic nominee ... but I worked their campaigns and worked GOTV efforts.
LOL ... Actually, as a relatively affluent African-American, I (personally) have no more to lose, whether there is a republican, or a Democrat, in the White House ... neither, will do much (if anything) FOR me, and my relative affluence, largely, shields me from the harm a republican would inflict.
My electoral concern is wholly for those less fortunate than me, Black or white.
But TBA, it's not all about an altruistic spirit ... I am true to the liberal spirit, that has it, I want (and am willing to pay for) a firm net beneath me, in case I fall ... Because I know those issues that would contribute to my fall, NO politician is willing/able to touch.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,856 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)
freshwest
(53,661 posts)BainsBane
(53,041 posts)talking about voters of color. "Sounds just like MLK." In fact, if you question it, you are told "all adults know that." 
heaven05
(18,124 posts)even though I am leaning toward voting for Bernie, he does have to include more inclusive language in his stumping speeches. Not enough for me yet, and that is a worry. Economic justice will not stop the virulent racism spreading across this land. That is a fact in this culture.
