This group is supposed to be a safe haven for black voices. So, I'm posting this here...

[MrScorpio]

Now, this is not to say that I'm promoting myself as some expert on the subject of race, despite what our right wing stalker friends may think of me, I do however have a voice and a black one at that.

I don't know if you've noticed my absence in some of the more active GD threads recently discussing race. I've read through some and felt that jumping into them would take away more time from my day than I can afford, given the fact that I have other things to do.

But moreover, it's quite clear that a significant portion of the members are neither capable or willing to have a detached, knowledgeable and self-examined discussion about how American white supremacy affects all of us in this country.

It starts with a complete unwillingness to listen to black voices without reacting as if one is being attacked. Much of dealing with that reaction serves to hijack conversations and turn them into huge messes. No one wants to be blamed for racism, even if they're a person who has spent their entire life deriving the benefits inherent in white supremacy and have done so without any tacit consent. They didn't ask to be born white in a white supremacist country, however, it does help a lot if they take the time and effort to become aware of how the world works. The inability to understand the pain rendered in black voices is quite troublesome indeed, when that inability is seen in those who profess to be the allies of black people.

Even in this supposed struggle together against racism, it's white supremacy that serves to divide us. Because it is white supremacy that impels its beneficiaries to believe that they are the sole arbiters and creators of definitions about race. Of course, when someone gets to call the shots, then they will invariably do so in ways to derive an advantage. Racism and race themselves are artificial constructs made to facilitate white supremacy. So even within the realm of these discussions over race, many of them start off wrong.

I could go on, but I'm sure that you get the gist of my point here.

I must say, though, that as the political season advances and if it becomes likely that Hillary will be our nominee, I'm quite sure that the question of her feminist credentials may come up regarding the subject of Intersectionality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality I figure that those discussions won't be pretty at all.

If there's any a place on the net which is both ill-equipped to have good discussions about race, class and gender AND is an appropriate place to have them, it's DU. The reason it seems, as has been shown in the recent discussions about race alone, is that DU generally and GD specifically serves as bad examples.

I'm quite sure that others have pointed this out and also have reasons why that's the case. For example, DU must have been invaded by right wing trolls. Unfortunately, the problem is much more basic than that: It's the pathological inability to cope with being born in a white supremacist culture. As the holders and users of black voices, we really have no power over white supremacy, other than speaking out against it. That powerless doesn't flow in one direction when it comes to systemic and institutional white supremacy, white people are affected in much the same way.

There is, however an individual component to white supremacy that even its beneficiaries do have some control over. And that is how much the individual chooses to become self-aware, how much they choose to forego feelings of guilt and blame even in the face of the angriest of black voices. There's the phrase that one should strive to check ones privilege. To me that means that the person holding inherent privilege in any given situation should take a moment to realize how they sound to a person who does not have privilege. In myself, as a straight male, that would mean that I would have to check my own privilege while listening to the voices of others who are not straight males. I'm not saying that I've been perfect in every case, however I have chosen to gain from the experience.

The main problem with white privilege, or any other system of privilege, is that it inhibits the holder from automatically improving themselves as an individual. Privilege is the promotion of inherent mediocrity for arbitrary reasons. I don't know why more people can't understand that. But when blindness becomes a choice, it can create unwilling combatants between natural allies and unnatural battlegrounds of places that should be safe havens.

Anyway, before I disappeared again I just wanted to relay my observations.

So, take care of each other. Who else do you have to try and depend on?

[Gman]

1. Being white I know I can't begin to expound on the Black experience.

So I just don't. All I can do is fight injustice and racism.

[Scuba]

2. Another great post from one of DU's finest posters. Thanks MrScorpio.

[SheilaT]

3. Thank you for posting this.

I'm a white woman, so I can't pretend to know anything about being black. But more than 40 years ago I had a co-worker, an African American man about 25 years older than I was, and he was the only man I ever knew who actually understood what the women's movement was all about. He could clearly see that there was a strong parallel. He was also willing to discuss matters of race with me, and gently correct my ignorance, for which I will always be grateful.

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. I bow down. n/t

[handmade34]

6. ...

[sheshe2]

7. Kick!

[Half-Century Man]

8. At the risk of exposing a greater ignorance than I suspect I have.

The phrase "White Privilege", I find misleading.
That "gap" in treatment isn't a gift bestowed on a particular group of people, it is a systemic denial of basic human respect to a particular group of people which was deliberately started years ago.

These conversations exist not to stop the privilege for anyone, but to extend the basics to everyone.

[MrScorpio]

9. I regard the term "privilege" as a description of normality...

And who gets to decide what is the general standard by which all else are judged "normal." Those who do the judging are going to naturally create a standard in which others unlike themselves will automatically fail. By default, that organizes a condition of inherent privilege for the designers and operators of that system.

It's called white privilege because it's created for whites, by whites and of whites and no one else.

If you want to "extend the basics TO everyone," then the first thing that needs to happen is the abolition of white supremacy as a governing standard FOR everyone's normality.

[Half-Century Man]

13. Oh I know it does exist, I just think the argument need inclusion as a topic.

I know the term we use to describe the phenomenon is designed to make white people uncomfortable and talk/think about the issue. It worked on me.
I was forced to think about equal treatment. I know the level of basic human respect I receive as a poor/disabled/elderly white man, it isn't much. However it is quite a bit higher than the basic human respect given at face value to any African American.
So, I have come to see the issue as recognizing the minimal levels I get should be lowest given to anyone; not that anyone should lose what little they have.

I will not regret the few "privileges" I get for just being alive, and I damn sure will extend the same to every human I get to meet.

[ananda]

10. We need posts like these.

Thanks..

[PatrickforO]

11. You should not go away, Mr. Scorpio

See, white privilege is insidious because you're right - if you are white, you don't really see it until it's pointed out to you. I understand as much as a 56 year old white male can about white privilege, and I try to be aware. But the truth is that I will never really know because I'm not you.

This is why you need to stay. You know, and can keep reminding people. It took me years even to see it. And it took even more years before I realized that by getting rid of that white privilege I would not lose anything I had before. Because I won't. It isn't a zero sum game, you know - I don't have to lose in order for you to win. If we succeed in getting to a place where we can judge each other by our character instead of our skin color, everyone will actually win.

Because this isn't really us hating one another. It is us being manipulated by the 1/10 of 1% or the big capitalists or the economic royalists - whatever you want to call them - into hating each other, or at least having an unhealthy mistrust. Because those people really calling the shots know that if they can get us to mistrust or even hate one another, then we will be too busy doing that to realize that both our pockets are being picked.

So stick around. But if you don't, good luck to you, because I know you're a guy just like me trying to make his way in the world. If we all realized that, and respected each other for that, then white privilege would disappear.

Of course, we both need to work on awareness of male privilege now...

[MadDAsHell]

12. Just a personal opinion, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the phrase "black voices" ...

in this context. I've seen this assumption a lot on DU that, somehow, all of us think and act the same, that being born with similar skin tone bonds us into one big unthinking reactionary force. Even from white posters, who will say how sorry they feel for us as African-Americans, how hard our lives must be, or how all of us must really hate this thing, or that person, as if every African-American comes from the exact same background, same experience, etc.

I have felt discrimination at times, but I can tell you that I swear some of my family members don't even know they're "black," and some of you probably would say they're not, because they would deny they've ever been discriminated against for their skin color. There seems to be this assumption that every black person feels sorry for themselves, and if they don't, they're not black; it's a little insulting.

I think it's become far too easy for people to pidgeonhole everyone in a racial group as being one thing or another.

Not every African-American feels oppressed, unheard, or discriminated against, just like not every Caucasian is deaf/blind to the benefits of being born with lighter skin.

[steve2470]

15. "Not every African-American feels oppressed, unheard, or discriminated against"..........

You must be referring to people like Ben Carson ? I assume every black person feels oppressed to some degree. This country is profoundly racist and always has been.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

40. There are many black people who suppress their oppression. It's too painful for them to deal with.

Not sure if it's Stockholm Syndrome, but they've learned to repress those feelings so much so that they're numb to racism and white supremacy.

[steve2470]

41. ok, thanks for that info! :) nt

[azmom]

36. I'm not sure where you are getting

That we feel sorry for ourselves. To acknowledge that you are part of an oppressed group does not equate feeling sorry for yourself.

[Number23]

42. Thank you. I read that post and the question marks and

's were just piling up.

But your post sums up what I'm thinking perfectly.

[heaven05]

39. per your last line

if you say so...........

[Number23]

43. You call yourself "MadasHell" and have identified yourself repeatedly as black

If it ain't racism and oppression that you're "mad" at, I'd be damn interested to know what it is.

[MadDAsHell]

44. Sorry Massa, I'll be a good angry black person for you going forward. nt

[Number23]

45. "I'll be a good angry black person for you going forward"

You don't need to do anything for me. I don't know you from a hill of beans.

And judging by the caliber of your posts and the quality of your insight, that's beyond cool with me.

[JustAnotherGen]

46. There's this song by Mötley Crüe

About not going away mad . . .

[Number23]

47. Yep. Would be perfectly fine with me.

[steve2470]

14. I value your voice, MrScorpio. Please post often here and in GD! nt

Last edited Thu Mar 19, 2015, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

[libodem]

16. Thank you for bringing it, MrScorpio

Difficult subject. White people are born into a privilege that is so automatic, we can't recognize it. When we do or can it brings us shame. Compassion and love would be more productive. Hope we get there.

[MrScorpio]

20. Other than being a troll, do you have any other accomplishments in your life?

Thanks for your input.

[kwassa]

18. Excellent post, Mr. Scorpio. There are many on DU, however ...

that don't recognize the system of white supremacy, or of the existence of white privilege in the first place. Without the acceptance of these concepts, there can be no conversation with any meaning to it. It is sometimes the old class vs. race argument, and they take the class side of it. Part of it is also simple narcissism; it doesn't hurt them, they haven't experienced that, so it can't be true.

The denial around the issue of white privilege is particularly striking, and the subject of some of the most acrimonious conversations here on DU.

Again, a great post.

[MrScorpio]

21. Just in case any of you weren't aware of this, but "Lamond" is my IRL first name

Our troll friends from the "Cave" have all been keenly aware of that fact for quite some time and they tend to refer to me by my actual name whenever they're leveling their juvenile insults against me and inserting me as some character into creepy fan fiction stories, as you would seen written by giddy teenage girls harboring a crush.

Looks like I've struck a nerve.

[JustAnotherGen]

22. That's very interesting

I was able to look up his comments . . . funny - he just signed up today!

[MrScorpio]

23. I'm just disappointed because I never got a reply...

MIRT team zapped my mirror universe self fast.

Hmmm... I wonder if that me wears a beard.

[libodem]

25. Hated to see this important topic derailed

We could all stand to learn some things. Stupid troll.

[tblue37]

26. KnR. nt

[tblue37]

27. Mr.Scorpio, I have admired your writing for quite some time now. Do you happen to be a

professional writer? If so, how would I locate your professional writings?

[MrScorpio]

30. Nope, I am a complete amateur…

I guess that the best place to find my stuff is in my DU journal.

This is the only place on the net where I post this stuff.

Thanks for the compliments.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

28. Excellent Post!!! Rightwing trolls are not the problem, they announce themselves and none of us are

at all confused about who or what they are.

Embedded racist white liberals or alleged liberals, libertarians, etc. are the problem.

White privilege exists for every single breathing white american, period.

The least racist thing I can do as a white american is be aware i have privilege and work as hard as I can to end it.


And holy shit, look at what you said:

If there's any a (sic) place on the net which is both ill-equipped to have good discussions about race, class and gender AND is an appropriate place to have them, it's DU.

Holy dear god in heaven how true, how true

But why? (topic for a good conversation)

And then you actually brought this up

Intersectionality

which is crucially important with Hillary and the inevitable onslaught of misogynist crap we will see here at DU and elsewhere.

Anyway, what a great OP. Dont you dare leave DU, please.

[guillaumeb]

29. fantastic observations

Growing up in any country involves living in that culture. Culture is like water to a fish, it surrounds us and sustains us. Many people are not aware of this. They take it for granted that "this", whatever this is, is how life is.

I am white, Originally from Quebec. When my family moved here I was 14. Here is the Chicago area. We moved in 1965. Our first introduction to race in the US was the violence in this area when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. marched against segregation. My family was amazed to discover that for many Americans your Civil War had NOT ended in 1865. The formal fighting had stopped but the same racist violence was still dividing people.

Fast forward to 1980 when Ronald Reagan ran basically as a racist who would bring back morning to America. His success, and the success of the GOP in the American south is a testament to the enduring racism in the US.

My last comment is that many US citizens have a self-image, or a country self-image, quite at odds with how the rest of the world sees the US.

We need more of your thoughts Mr. Scorpio

[Damansarajaya]

31. A fine post of the kind we all have come to expect from Mr. Scorpio.

And it had the added advantage of flushing out the racist trolls so they could be PPR'd.

It's a win-win.

[F4lconF16]

32. Kicked and Recced

Thank you for posting this. Eloquently said, and needed.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

33. Awesome post! I agree with everything you said!

[Number23]

34. God, what a magnificent post. Every word

And I too have noted quite frequently that DU is probably one of the LAST places on the net that I would want to try to have real and lasting conversations on race.

The people here are way too entrenched in the (mindblowingly false) belief of their own superiority combined with a knee jerk defensiveness that would make any real attempt of a racial discussion here about 1000 times more painful than it could ever be productive.

And I am 100% in agreement with your statement that people who believe that the problems here are because of "right wing trolls" are fooling themselves. Those kinds of trolls get shown the door pretty quickly, but it's the long term, dog whistling posters that know how to "talk liberal" on a few issues but then turn every once in a while to not so subtle mocking of people of color and our issues that really contribute to the problem here. And the fact that a few of those know how to toe that line while racking up tens of thousands of posts and hundreds of recs in the process makes it even worse.

So I agree with every word of your post and even though I have made an appearance in alot of race threads, I don't post on the matter nearly as much as I'd like. And quite simply, the answer is because I don't think it will make any difference here and it is too exhausting.

[GoneFishin]

35. A great and informative post. Thanks.

[lovemydog]

37. Thank you and k & r.

[heaven05]

38. eloquent and succinct

thank you Put words to a lot of my feelings.

[Major Hogwash]

48. Perhaps you haven't noticed that safe havens aren't really safe havens.

Not that I care anymore, but it has almost become impossible for me to discuss anything at DU without tip-toeing around, as if I am walking on eggshells, hoping that I don't offend someone in order to keep from having any of my posts hidden.
Of course, anything I say can be taken by someone the wrong way, if that person has an axe to grind with me for something I said the other day, or something I said a few years ago.

And alert stalking is a reality, it does occur at this forum, so when people say it doesn't exist, all that means is that they aren't aware of it going on.

I don't care what they say about me at the Cave.
Or on Free Republic.
Or on any Republican forum.
Or on this forum, for that matter.

But moreover, it's quite clear that a significant portion of the members are neither capable or willing to have a detached, knowledgeable and self-examined discussion about how American white supremacy affects all of us in this country.

Herein lies the problem.

However, I don't think many of them can discuss race in a detached manner.
Knowledgeable, perhaps, but detached, not so much.
It is what it is.

[Hekate]

49. I look for your posts, Mr. Scorpio. Thanks for your insights in this one. nt