None of my Randi Rhodes board friends will participate at DU...

[randys1]

None of my Nicole Sandler board friends will participate at DU

I have spent years on liberal boards, working for voting rights, and when I started posting here I could not get a single one of my friends or people I work with on voting rights to follow me here, every last one of them said it was a waste of their time.

I now see why.

I had hoped my posting here would bring more attention to voting rights, maybe followers to my twitter account which is dedicated to protecting voting rights and nothing else, but practically no DU Members followed.

Hundreds of #uniteblue people follow, but they are serious about voting rights and democracy.

Anyway, I have had two heart attacks and my liberal friends tell me the aggravation I am getting from disguised rightwingers on DU is not worth it.

So I will hang here in this forum for a while and try and find somewhere else where I can promote voting rights, any suggestions?

[leveymg]

1. There's been an upsurge of the RW element here, but most DUers remain progressive Dems.

The level of ideological friction can be uncomfortable, but if you can see through the smoke, this is still a worthwhile place to educate and discuss issues.

[BlueCaliDem]

6. + 1000 eom

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. The upsurge in RW element is not ...

why people involved in civil rights struggles avoid (even mock) DU ... it is DU's claim to represent the core thought of the Democratic base, while rejecting civil rights as a pre-eminent issue, in favor of income equality arguments.

[randys1]

10. Thank you for that, it is a reminder that my issues arent always the same as others.

I think my issue of voting rights is connected to all others, but there are specific problems people deal with in REAL time that some of us never deal with.

Civil rights must be the top issue otherwise there are no other issues.

[1StrongBlackMan]

11. And the prevailing DU thought is ...

Civil rights must be the top issue otherwise there are no other issues.

Without income equality, the other issues don't matter. I strongly disagree, and so does the Democratic base.

[zentrum]

20. Agreed.

Civil rights is a fundamental issue in this country, but it is embedded in the larger fabric of income inequality. They go hand and hand, but income inequality is how the oppression of everyone not in the 1% is carried out.

Scratch racism and you'll find class warfare hiding underneath.

No one has to choose however. Working for either one helps the other.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. We don't agree ...

Scratch racism and you'll find class warfare hiding underneath.

Agreed (when viewed from the white, male, prism), but eliminate class warfare and (history suggests) I, and I alone, am left to deal with the remaining racism.

Why is the history of my "allies" so difficult for my "allies" to see?

[zentrum]

41. Absolutely, I do agree.

And I know that you know about a reality I do not. (Though I'm not a white male.)

I didn't know how to really get at the idea I'm after. I was thinking about the racism that ended up baked into the Constitution from the beginning, way beyond the 3/5 rule, because wealthy Southern landowners wanted to protect their way of having wealth and power—which happened to be slave-based---and how they did this not because slaves were black but because slave labour made them the most wealthy and powerful entities in the country in the early days. They wanted the free labor and the color of it didn't matter. The racist ideology that came to dominate was carefully and deliberately constructed always just at the point that their economic privilege was put into question, or when white low wage workers seemed in danger of uniting with slaves against a common enemy.

So there remains the issue of how racist ideology is promoted and carefully and relentlessly taught, with the aim of spurring the majority white working class to point their anger at the black/minority instead of at the real cause of trouble. What would happen without this relentless cultural teaching? Racism so serves the 1%, it's hard to really know how the world would be if the 99%, black and white, began to focus on the real source of unequal power.

It seems to me that racism has a chance of fading because of the (yes, too slowly) changing demographics—but I think we'll still face the problem of 80 people owning 40% of the world's wealth or whatever that statistic is. If the ideology of racism didn't serve them they'd be indifferent to it I think. It's all about the wealth and power.

But all that said, I really do know that I do not know, and I haven't been forced to live it. All I can clearly see is that racism is systemic at all levels in this country and that anything that attacks any part of it, whether through progressive economics or through voting rights etc, is getting at the same core monster of power inequality. I guess I see that monster as being racist when racism serves an economic purpose and is a-racial if they can hit on another means—such as religious or ethnically "constructed" hatreds. But I don't know. And I sure don't know how it feels.

Here's a photo from 1925 of black workers protesting for jobs. This combines all of it.
http://www.shorpy.com/node/19269?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+shorpy+%28Shorpy+-+The+100-Year-Old+Photo+Blog%29

[JDPriestly]

24. When you have economic justice, you can obtain civil rights.

That is why the civil rights movement was at its strongest, its most daring, in the 1960s. We suddenly had a middle class that embraced people of all races, a middle class with the money to educate its children and to fight for intangibles as well as tangible wealth.

Economic justice and civil rights are aspects of one thing, and that is a politically strong middle class that is very large in terms of percentages of all the people and that is secure enough to express individual opinions and want to progress. Economic justice makes people willing to seek and accept positive change.

I have to say again that in California we have a fairly good record at this time on civil rights. We need more economic justice. So this may be a regional thing.

Here, the test is the rights of immigrants. We also have some problems with police brutality. But we don't have problems with voting rights. I have not seen that.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. CA and Oregon don't really have voting rights problems, but to say either has a 'good record' on

Civil Rights speaks more to the present and the aspirational than to historic facts.
I also strongly disagree with you that money creates justice. The fact is the most deeply discriminatory nations on Earth are among the most affluent. The quest for cash has often been used as an excuse for mistreatment of 'the other'. Economics alone do not solve human rights and civil rights injustices.

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. +1 ...

It's amazing how those unaffected by social discrimination, except as spectators, want those that are, to play attention to their quest for economic parity with the wealthy, but ignore the economic AND social parity that they enjoy over PoC and other "minorities."

[BrotherIvan]

33. +1

I am in California too. So perhaps that is why I differ as well. We don't have the same amount of extreme racism as perhaps the South. I remember going to Iowa and shocked at seeing one PoC in my whole trip. Where I live we have much more segregation by class than race typically now as neighborhoods have matured. So perhaps my perspective is different than someone from another state.

[JDPriestly]

34. Yes. That is probalby why economic injustice is a big problem for me.

Have you ever been in the courts in Compton?

I'm sure it is better now, but not all that many years ago, the difference between the Compton courts where poor African-Americans were herded through the "justice" system and the courts of say Pasadena was quite striking.

It wasn't just about race. It was mostly about the economic differences in the areas. Pasadena is a mixed racially. Compton was poor and to a great extent if not entirely African-American. Economics and race are almost inseparable. In California, economics is the biggest problem. Racial inequity is the child of economic unfairness in California. Or at least in the Los Angeles area.

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. And your problem with economic justice has nothing to do with the fact ...

you are not affected by racial or gender or other forms of social injustice. Right?

[JDPriestly]

57. Actually, I am affected by racial injustice in that my grandchildren are mixed racially.

I am certainly affected by gender discrimination because I am a woman.

And I am affected by age discrimination on top of that.

My stance is that discrimination of any kind is wrong. But focusing on one kind of discrimination, while necessary on a practical level, on an organizational level, is self-defeating. We will end discrimination when we join together to get a majority of voters to understand that discrimination against others is discrimination against themselves.

The sectors in our economy and population that thrive on discrimination and that stir up hate against this group or that benefit when those of us who are members of disadvantaged groups are divided, are segmented and concerned mostly about the rights of our own groups. That pits us against each other.

[1StrongBlackMan]

63. I didn't know you are a woman ...

you should know better than to recite that income equality will make everything better line. How much money would it take for you to be okay with accepting second class status?

The sectors in our economy and population that thrive on discrimination and that stir up hate against this group or that benefit when those of us who are members of disadvantaged groups are divided, are segmented and concerned mostly about the rights of our own groups. That pits us against each other.

Funny, most PoC are not opposed to fighting for the equality of women or of the LGBT community, nor do we say that them fighting for their rights is being divisive. Likewise, I rarely hear of women or the LGBT community that oppose PoC fighting for equality, nor have I heard then say that my fighting for my equality is divisive.

I only hear non-LGBT white folks and the rare white woman, saying that any group's fight for equality is divisive.

[JDPriestly]

70. You misunderstand me. No one's fight for equality is divisive.

But the best strategy is to find that tough problem in our separate struggles that we all share, the ones that can unite us and for which the most of can join together and fight for.

For example, raising the minimum wage is a struggle that unites people of color, women, and older workers. It is an example of an issue that unites every group that is struggling for equality.

I was appalled when people criticized Patricia Arquette's (for her) daring statement about equal pay for women at the Oscars. It may not have been perfectly stated, but we should always support any person who is a member of a disadvantaged group who dares to speak up for equality.

So, I think we agree on the issue.

One failing in movements for equality is, in my opinion, that we mistake motivation for strategy. The motivation that a woman has for equality is to have a better life. Women want to be paid as well as men because women want to live as well as men and take care of their children and families. That is a motivation. The strategy is to state the case for paying women as well as men in terms of equality for all because that will gain the most interest and solidarity with other groups seeking equality.

We need to realize that our motivation is not enough. Beyond feeling disadvantaged and being aware of the disparate treatment to which we are subjected, we need a strategy of motivating others who are treated disparately for reasons other than ours to join our struggle.

[Number23]

73. All this talk about how people "keep" groups divided makes me want to scream. No one EVER had to

convince poor white people to be racist as shit against others. And even if they had to be convinced then, they certainly don't now.

This idea that racism is a "distraction" is utterly baffling to me. When even educated and wealthy minorities are regularly discriminated against, the idea that the only -ism that matters is classism is as myopic as it is stupid.

[yeoman6987]

61. Vermont hardly has POC yet it is pretty progressive in all things

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. We go round and around on this ...

So just let me ask ... how much money would it take for you to be okay with being evicted from your home or fired from your job because you are gay? ... How much money would it take for you to be okay with having males tell you what you can, and cannot do with your body? ... How much money would it take for you to be okay with having to explain to your 5 year old daughter why she was the only kid in her class that didn't get invited to pool party at the country club she can see from her back yard?

[JustAnotherGen]

91. +1 Theseare excellent questions

[leveymg]

15. How does DU reject civil rights as a pre-eminent issue?

What is the conflict or incompatibility with income equality arguments you claim to see here?

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. There was a post by a "prominent" DUer ...

a virtual "pillar of DU" (based on the rec count) that stated (then self-deleted) ...

"If you don't see income equality as THE problem; then, you ARE the problem."

This was in a thread discussing the Oscar comment calling for PoC and the LGBT community to get into the fight for income equality for women because everyone has been fighting for the equality ... though not necessarily, income equality ... of PoC and the LGBT community.

[1StrongBlackMan]

47. Look immediately above your question. n/t

[BrotherIvan]

32. As you know I disagree with your argument

I am a PoC, and I do think that if one doesn't have economic justice, one is susceptible to all forms of prejudice and violations of rights. Keeping black and brown people poor is the strongest way to keep them struggling. If people cannot house and feed themselves, they have no rights. If they are constantly struggling financially, worried about feeding their children, with no job prospects and no hope, they will not exercise their right to vote because that is a luxury of thought they can't afford. And if we elect representatives with the hope that something will change and then it doesn't, why should we participate in politics?

I just don't understand the argument that says that wanting to lift people up economically is a bad thing and ignoring racism. I just don't get it. I learned about Ferguson which has been dead ended economically and taken over by corrupt politicians and a police force and turned into an occupied territory. Yes, that community was targeted because of race, but they were unable to fight back because of poverty.

Whenever I have faced racism, I feel that my education and middle class security are my best weapons against it. I know many people who didn't have those advantages and they became victimized by the system, their jobs gone, their employers cheating them, their children finding more opportunity in gangs and drugs than a minimum wage job at the dollar store. Fathers and sons being locked up from an early age, never to leave the system, harrassed for the smallest infraction by roided up cops. Women who were smart and talented working night jobs as cleaning women or caregivers and never being able to see their families. Those who are demanding economic justice are demanding equality for all people, because they think that people should not live this way, that this situation has been exacerbated by the exteme inequality. The government is no longer working for the people, it is working for the wealthy at the expense of people. And the vulnerable, the elderly, poor and minorities are always hit the hardest. Always.

To be honest, I don't know how to seperate wanting economic issues from race. I think that keeping people poor and disenfranchised is at the heart of racism. Because racist people hate poor black and brown people, but they really hate the educated and financially stable people who can speak up and fight. If you're begging on your knees, you will not fight. That's how they like it.

But the question is, what are we fighting for? What do we want? I would guess that I and my neighbors would say we want a safe community where our children can grow up and get a good education without fear. We don't want all the boys locked up before they are 15 and dead by 20. I want my neighbors to have great paying jobs where they can come home after an eight hour day and chill with their families. I don't want them to choose between food and rent or heat and medicine. What I don't want to see is our friend who had a full time civil service job then worked for a cleaning service at night and then cleaned a elder care facility on the weekends and who just had a massive stroke at 50 and now can't work at all and her teenage daughter takes care of her and the younger children in their one room apartment. She basically dropped dead from work. I want SWAT teams out of my neighborhood and the cops to carry clubs instead of guns. I think we all want a quiet, peaceful life and people/racists to leave us alone. I don't give a damn if some idiot in Alabama calls me names, as long as he doesn't have any power over me or my family; as long as his candidates aren't backed by billionaires who want to make more billions who run racists so his racist ass can get out and vote. In my mind, fighting the oligarchs is the key, because they are perpetuating the racism and hatred in order to make more money. So that's where I fight the most. But it's not because I think that it is separate from racism, it's because I think it is at the very heart of racism.

So that's where my thinking came from.

[BrotherIvan]

65. I'm of mixed race

Too light for some and too dark for many. And yes, I have self-identified many times on this board.

[1StrongBlackMan]

66. Okay. n/t

[BrotherIvan]

68. So no actual answers to people's points?

Just implying you don't believe me? Ok...

[1StrongBlackMan]

71. You should know me better than that ...

I don't imply stuff ... I say what I think.

Different people have different life experiences and different reactions to those experiences.

I agree with a lot of what you've written ... keeping poor PoC poor does promote a sense of hopelessness that translates into political apathy, i.e., not voting.

I just don't understand the argument that says that wanting to lift people up economically is a bad thing and ignoring racism. I just don't get it.

No one is arguing that lifting people up economically is a bad thing ... what I am saying/have said is those arguing "If you don't see that income inequality is THE problem; then, YOU are the problem" are mistaken because income equality does not negate racial/gender/sexual orientational inequality ... no amount of economic parity curing social inequality.

Whenever I have faced racism, I feel that my education and middle class security are my best weapons against it. I know many people who didn't have those advantages and they became victimized by the system, their jobs gone, their employers cheating them, their children finding more opportunity in gangs and drugs than a minimum wage job at the dollar store. Fathers and sons being locked up from an early age, never to leave the system, harrassed for the smallest infraction by roided up cops. Women who were smart and talented working night jobs as cleaning women or caregivers and never being able to see their families.

That's the point ... our education and middleclass economic security does not insulate us from the discrimination. The victimization of the poor that you mention is separate and apart from the freedom from discrimination that our (your and my) economic security fails to afford us. There is no question that if you are poor, Black or white, you are screwed by, and in, this system.

There should, also, be no question that to be Black and poor has you doubly screwed ... But to be Black, and of means, means still being screwed.

But the question is, what are we fighting for? What do we want? I would guess that I and my neighbors would say we want a safe community where our children can grow up and get a good education without fear. We don't want all the boys locked up before they are 15 and dead by 20. I want my neighbors to have great paying jobs where they can come home after an eight hour day and chill with their families. I don't want them to choose between food and rent or heat and medicine. What I don't want to see is our friend who had a full time civil service job then worked for a cleaning service at night and then cleaned a elder care facility on the weekends and who just had a massive stroke at 50 and now can't work at all and her teenage daughter takes care of her and the younger children in their one room apartment. She basically dropped dead from work. I want SWAT teams out of my neighborhood and the cops to carry clubs instead of guns. I think we all want a quiet, peaceful life and people/racists to leave us alone. I don't give a damn if some idiot in Alabama calls me names, as long as he doesn't have any power over me or my family; as long as his candidates aren't backed by billionaires who want to make more billions who run racists so his racist ass can get out and vote. In my mind, fighting the oligarchs is the key, because they are perpetuating the racism and hatred in order to make more money. So that's where I fight the most. But it's not because I think that it is separate from racism, it's because I think it is at the very heart of racism.

Yes, that is what we all want. But I think you have it a bit backwards, it is not the oligarchs that are perpetuating the racism (separatism), to maintain their power; it is the racists perpetuating the racism (separatism) in order to gain/keep power.

[BrotherIvan]

74. Thanks very much for the answer

And I don't disagree with you necessarily at all. It's just a matter of approach. As I said up above, I come from California where the daily dose of racism isn't as extreme as in some parts of the country. That is basically because whites are the minority in much of SoCal. In my neighborhood, it started as a working class white neighborhood, then became 50/50 black and white. Now it is probably 50% Latino, 30% Black, 10% White, and 10% Other/Asian/Indian. So we have much more integration than other parts of the country I have visited. But my experience is that even if the intense racism is gone, the economic hardship still remains and takes a toll on everyone, making them powerless and hopeless. I am sure that in other areas of the country, the experience is different so I appreciate discussions like this as it forces me to open my mind and consider those as well.

And to be honest, I don't know how to stop racism other than education and legislation. I believe once a racist--without some kind of epiphany--always a racist. I just want to work to make sure that racists don't have power to do damage such as police, politics, etc. I think that forcing racists through legislation not to discriminate is effective, but they will always work to erode those rights and so we must remain ever vigilant. I also think that many of the younger generations I meet are less and less racist. But again, where I live it is different and we are having to learn to live together. But because it is so mixed now, if you look at a group of friends you see a mixed group. That is the one thing that gives me hope because it wasn't always that way.

But I do think that to people in power, it is all about money. They fuel hate and division wherever they can because it keeps them in power and the money flowing. They put anti-marriage equality bills on ballots to get voters to the ballot box. They use abortion and religion. They use fear of black people and dog whistles like welfare to light a fire under racists. They will lie, cheat, steal and get bailed out and bleed you to your last drop for money. They don't have morals one way or another, actually, except money. As you can see, they have lost the fight on marriage equality so they are giving up for the most part. The tide is against them and they really don't believe in it enough. Legalization of marijuana will have the same momentum, but I fear that the hope that it means less incarcerations is foolish because the drug war is a huge cash cow for the MIC.

That's what I'm trying to argue (very badly), I think that income equality at this time is very important because it is weakening people at the very foundation. If that is washed away, then you have no leg to stand on. They are stealing from schools and trying to make kids dumber so they are more easily controlled. A public education that is our birthright as citizens is being turned into some guy's yacht. They are trying to erode rights in the most insidious ways and it has to stop. Because when they attack civil service unions or teachers, they are in fact attacking primarily minorities and women who hold the majority of these well-paying middle class jobs. They are taking aim, but the new war is in the sphere of economics to make people desperate and pliant. That's why I do think that fighting for income equality is at the heart of general equality. It is about power and powerlessness.

I know this is a long discussion and I know you are even better informed than I. I just wanted to say that I think that we are fighting for the same thing, just differently.

[Damansarajaya]

59. You see those to issues as competing against one another?

Because I don't.

Trying to get struggling working class whites to see racism as the biggest problem in our society is going to be a really tough sell. We'll have a lot more success imho in pointing out that we're all in this society together, and a rising tide floats all boats.

[bravenak]

62. The only problem with 'rising tides lifts all boats' is that it's empty rhetoric.

If some of us are in boats and some of us barely have a life preserver and and anchor strapped to our back, we drown while everybody else gets lifted with the tide. The poor get left behind if they are not white and straight and able bodied, because their help gets traded away by the majority. Like how black domestics got left out of the 'New Deal'. People who love the new deal could give a fuck that black women and disabled folks got crap out of it. They expect us t want to do it again, but refuse to explore the problems with it the last time. So who are we going to leave out? Hispanic farm workers, home assistance workers for the disabled? Civil rights for transgender people? We need to do everything at once. A rising tide will not help when gays can be fired for just being. When black fathers fill up the prisons, when hispanic parents are getting deported leaving thir kids hopeless.

[Damansarajaya]

86. Everybody who paid into Social Security got Soc. Sec. back.

I don't know right of the top of my head if that included all the groups that you cite, but eventually it did include all the groups that you cite.

[bravenak]

87. Eventually. The waiting game.

Their wages did not rise with everyone else and many died before they got one thin dime back. If your wages do not rise with everyone eose you get far less from social security. Therefore your community does not accumulate wealth like those who got a full share of the new deal. It was crumbs and not even reasonable.

[Damansarajaya]

89. I totally agree. However the New Deal helped a lot more

even from the beginning than it didn't.

I would be in favor of reparations for those who were unjustly left out in the past.

[bravenak]

90. And I just want to make sure nobody gets left behind this time.

So, we probably agree on most of it.

[JustAnotherGen]

92. Get behind a Paycheck Fairness Act

Last edited Mon Mar 2, 2015, 06:15 AM - Edit history (1)

In the here and now - that's ultimately what screwed Lily Ledbetter. its the impact to the SS Checks of women today and tomorrow.

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. Yes, ...

but my boat will still be a dingy, being flooded by the wake of your boat.

[Major Hogwash]

88. Exactly!

There will be no income equality without civil rights.

Income equality CAN NOT take place without civil rights occurring first!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

105. Exactly right!! The backlash against racial progress was never just on the right. That was revealed

to me back in 2007 when I was directly exposed to racism in the liberal/progressive community when Obama was running against Hillary. The racism was real, palatable, and often very blatant. Ever since then, the racism has not ceased. That we are forced to have a separate forum dedicated solely to supporting the president and debunking bullshit coming from both the political right and left, speaks volumes!

[Jamaal510]

106. Exactly what I've thought all along:

That we are forced to have a separate forum dedicated solely to supporting the president and debunking bullshit coming from both the political right and left, speaks volumes!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

107. Exactly right!!

[Autumn]

2. Try this place, it's a little slow on the posting, most members there post a lot here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=285125&year=2014&month=8

http://www.democratsforprogress.com/2014/08/27/exploring-our-paradoxes/

This is probably what you want and are looking for.

[randys1]

3. Already a member but had forgotten about it, thanks for reminding me

my cardiologist will thank you too...

[Autumn]

4. If more of the members posted there it would be a more interesting place.

[Number23]

44. Lovely dig at DemocratsforProgress and randy. Very subtle

But I think the poster's entire point is that his genuinely liberal friends won't post HERE. Not that he needs somewhere else to post.

[Autumn]

69. I guess you just skipped over reading this part from their OP

So I will hang here in this forum for a while and try and find somewhere else where I can promote voting rights, any suggestions?

In your rush to get a dig in. So did you see the part about" try and find somewhere else where I can promote voting rights, any suggestions?"

[Number23]

72. The people on Democrats for Progress need lectures on voting rights a lot less than the people here

Last I checked, and it has been a while, they had a much greater amount of minority representation there and were not nearly as knee jerk when topics of race come up. Which means that people are actually able to exchange info and actually learn from one another.

[Autumn]

75. randys1 is looking for a place where his friends can go, since they won't come here.

I am a member there also and since his friends won't come here it seems like a good idea to suggest DFP. I don't think he is looking for a place to lecture people so much as looking for a place he can discuss things with his friends. He appreciated it since he had forgotten he was a member there.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. I follow your DidTheyLetYouVote

And UniteBlue. I totally see your point.

Did they let you vote and UniteBlue helped us find people in our district whose ride to the polls fell through. Keep up the good work.

[randys1]

7. Thanks...and thanks for reminding me that the work is working...

[SCVDem]

12. voting should be done

Like Australia.

Not voting is NOT an option!

I always vote, therefore I can bitch!

[world wide wally]

19. We have a wnner! ^

[MADem]

53. I don't like that idea because there are stupid and uninformed people in the world.

I don't like the idea of a Kardashian-Bieber ticket.

[SCVDem]

55. Stupid, uninformed or Tea Party.

You have an obligation to your country to choose its leaders

Maybe if citizens were required to vote they would be better informed.

Follow the voter supression votes. This must stop, and mandatory voting kills that tactic.

Kardashian-Bieber? McCain-Palin !

[MADem]

58. I don't want to risk a President Kardashian to find out. Also, in USA we are not "forced"

to do things. The right to NOT VOTE is, if you want to get down to it, as much of an expression of viewpoint as voting is.

And that has nothing to do with "voter suppression." That practice is a different thing altogether.

Anyone who wants to vote, and is a US citizen and of age, should be permitted to vote. That doesn't mean that people should have a gun put to their head and be FORCED to be "political" if that's not their thing.

[certainot]

13. relate it to your connection to talk radio

randi waas a favorite of mine and one of the first and only liberal talkers who had listened to rw talk radio and realized how important and dominant it was for the rw propaganda operation and the destruction of democracy the last 25 years. very few on the left get it.

talk radio is the primary tool for selling voter suppression legislation in the states. rove really got it going after their own election theft and he got central control of talk radio messaging. they used the radio stations to convince people hanging chads etc were part of the democratic party strategy and the old machines were too expensive and easy to game(ha) so we needed to buy computerized machines (from his friends). the immigration/ border issue was a way to suggest dems were getting foreign brown people to vote for them and we needed voter ID etc. ACORN was being attacked heavily on talk radio for years before okeefe and fox finished the job. the voter fraud fraud was sold primarily on talk radio. they used talk radio to help tens of millions excuse and rationalize republican election theft by accusing dems of the same, etc. any time they want to push voter suppression legislation the state republican talk radio start doing the set up, maybe with help from the state and national koch think tanks and local GOP for coordination.

much of the activism to improve voter rights can be and is undone by a few blowhards with big megaphones.

the samson's hair of rw radio is it's dependence on our publicly funded schools.

from republiconradio.org
44.5% of Limbaugh radio stations (​267 of 600), depend on the football programs and student athletes of 90 universities and colleges.

many more rw stations not doing limbaugh also depend on uni and school sports programs for community standing and ad revenue.

students all over the country working on progressive issues like voting rights' tuition, public ed, etc are being undercut by their own universities, who crap on their own mission statements and rent their mascots (for peanuts) for the limbaughs and hannitys and savages to ride while they do ALEC's work on voter suppression, raising tuition, attacking teachers, privatizing public ed, and denying global warming, etc.

the prominent climate scientist michael mann is a prof at penn state, which endorses about 10 limbaugh stations while they do global warming denial!

it's an absurd situation and all it would take would be a few schools to set an example and declare their intention to honor their mission statements and not renew current licensing agreements with racist anti-science partisan radio stations, and look for alternatives.

rw radio couldn't handle it and stations would start opening up for liberals like randi.

[randys1]

14. Thank you, excellent post

ALEC and the Koch's are EVERYWHERE

and Randi is unemployed

That says so much

[pangaia]

16. I would contribute just this.

why become emotionally distraught over Du, or... anything.. a wacko driver who cuts you off... dealing with trying to get an invoice paid by the military :&gt ) ME !, etc.. it just isn't worth the negativity.
You seem to be trying to do some good.
BRAVO, keep at it!

[randys1]

17. Thanks, answer is DU is representative of what Rove and the Koch's are doing all around

the country, but you are right, I should relax a bit.

[Hekate]

21. Kick and a hug. I'll be back later.

I agree -- without voting rights, we got nuttin'.

[JDPriestly]

22. I assure you I have registered many, many voters in my life.

But California insures good voting rights. There isn't much I can do to promote voting rights in the states in which right-wingers deny them to those they don't like.
ere
So that is not an issue that concerns me that much.

Sorry. The problem may be that different states have different laws on voting rights.

I do not like the fact that the votes are counted and added up on potentially rigged or insecure electronic equipment.

But insofar as voting rights are concerned, I don't think there is a problem in California.

I volunteered twice on projects to make sure that all voters who registered would actually be listed in the voter registration rolls and to see that all voters who went to the polls were able to vote and that all votes were counted. I don't know whether I will still be able to do that in 2016.

I started registering voters in 1972. I did not register voters in every election after that, but I have registered a lot of voters in my lifetime.

Maybe we are already on board when it comes to voter registration.

But I do think if you are keen on this issue, that you should spend your time working with the unconverted -- those who do not understand that people will not and cannot vote unless they are registered on time and correctly.

[randys1]

36. CA is ahead of others in many ways.

I think there is an answer to all this having to do with vote by mail maybe, the other person suggested.

Online?

could there be a way to do that?

[JDPriestly]

39. I don't know because I am such a klutz about computers.

I think that making election day a paid holiday for all working people, even those working part-time would help. Employers should allow each person to be absent from work for three hours to vote on election day. That would impose a financial burden on employers. But then employers benefit from the protection of our government in many ways from fire department protection to the protection of their rights to collect bills and own property. It would just be a form of pay-back.

That's my suggestion. And yes, absentee ballots of mail voting should be easy to do and encouraged.

Oregon has an interesting system.

[steve2470]

51. I think voting online is fraught with security risks

I can't see it happening any time soon. I vote by mail here in Florida all the time, and I love it. You can go to your county elections office online, and request ballots.

[obxhead]

23. Please show some evidence of people on DU

Attacking voting rights.

This is the 4th or 5th post I've seen from you whining about an issue I have never seen here on DU and I've been a member for some time now.

[randys1]

37. People on DU constantly talk about the two parties being so similar that voting for the Dem

is a waste of time.

To deny that this meme is talked about here daily, is ridiculous

You might as well attack voting rights if you talk people out of voting...

[ErikJ]

26. Vote by Mail like in PNW works

Thats all you need to promote in your state and USA.

[randys1]

38. So voting by mail is a thing in Washington? How do you register for it?

[ErikJ]

42. Wash, Oregon and now Colorado

Registering is same as usual but they send everybodys ballot by mail. Ez peezy.

[gregcrawford]

27. There can be no one overarching issue...

... to the exclusion of any other considerations; they are all interrelated and interconnected. There may be some that will be more easily facilitated when other are finally established, but some of the strident and exclusionary rhetoric I have seen on DU and elsewhere is self-defeating and smacks of the narrow-mindedness I'd expect from a mob of Teabaggers with room-temperature IQs.

That said, civil rights for EVERY American is the cornerstone of Liberal philosophy. But again, all these issues are inextricably intertwined, and we exclude them to the detriment of all.

Thus endeth my sermon.

[bravenak]

60. I agree totally.

[McCamy Taylor]

29. Do not give up! An uphill battle is the most fun. Here's a true DU story.

Back in 2006, there was a huge "Dems hate Latinos because they steal our jobs" stealth group at DU trying to divide and conquer. Every time I would post something in favor of Latinos it got shot down as "anti-union"--even though Unions want to represent all workers and know that divide and conquer is used to lower wages and hurt unions. I got pissed so I got to writing. I wrote about the right wing neo-Nazis and their efforts to attack immigrants, using them as the new threat analogous to Jewish people in Nazi Germany. I wrote about how such efforts are fascism. And guess what? The final post in the series made it all the way to the top of the greatest---and all that "Dems hate Latinos because they steal our jobs" crap just curled up and died.


If you see a suspect meme being circulated, attack it head on. Do it often enough, and other people will notice.

There is nothing wrong with DU that can not be fixed with participation.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. I frequently post about the excellence of Vote By Mail on DU

I've gone on and on about it for years here, basically no one gives a shit about people actually voting. They want to complain about it,not solve it. We had 70% turnout last election, Democrats won, cannabis was legalized, an Equal Rights Amendment added to the Constitution of the State.
I can't make other States stop having 'line up to vote on a video screen' elections. I can only point out that there are better ways being used and suggest that those in other States spend time like this, between elections, making better election laws for their next round.

[randys1]

35. I do absentee which is different than what you are talking about...I need to find out more about

this...thanks

[think]

31. Florida residents are working on a state ballot initiative to restore voting rights for felons

It would not a complete answer to voting rights issues by any means but it is part of the problem. This is especially important in Florida where people have been wrongly purged from the voting roles for having a similar or same name as someone on the purge list.

Link to the Florida initiative to restore felon voting rights that may make it to the 2016 ballot:

http://goo.gl/7mRzIS


State ballot initiatives appear to do fairly well and create change directly through the people.

As I will be residing in Florida again soon I hope to get involved with this initiative.

Hopefully other states will work to create other legislation to protect, secure, and expand voting rights.

Best of luck in your endeavors.

[roguevalley]

40. its self defeating for your friends not to come here

and speak up. there are dozens of issues here and if there are enough voices they get heard more. I find it sort of similar to those who don't vote complaining about things. If they don't come here, how can a complaint be made that no one hears their issue?

[steve2470]

50. I agree

DU is the one of the busiest forums on the internet. We need good people here.

[Number23]

43. Randy, we love you and you are ALWAYS welcome in this forum

And it doesn't surprise me at all that your liberal friends won't post here. Most liberals have very little use for libertarians.

[randys1]

45. thanx so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MADem]

52. I don't think there are a lot of activists on DU.

There are a lot of people who are Democrats, there are a lot of sockpuppets and trolls, and there are a lot of people who like to "opine." It's a big old political lounge, is all. And a lot of the membership is older, and as we age, we sometimes lose a little bit of that hitch in our giddyap.

You might want to partner with some of the established voting rights outfits and work with them in your area--that's probably the best way to make a contribution to the cause.

https://www.aclu.org/voting-rights


http://www.democrats.org/about/voting_rights_institute

[randys1]

76. Thanks for the links..

[misterhighwasted]

54. Me, randys1.. I am in total agreement with what you write.

I am encouraged by your posts, your commitment and you are so completely correct in what you write.
Kudos to who you are.

[uhnope]

67. DU isn't great at activism. It's for discussion. nt

[marym625]

77. Well that sucks!

I often see you around and I don't recall ever disagreeing with you, though it could have happened. But I have rec'd you many times.

I don't ever recall you putting your twitter handle anywhere to follow you.

I do see some I wonder how they call themselves Democrats or liberal, but I also see many that are true progressives. I just try to stay away from posts that are not inline with my thinking.

As far as voter rights go, though I haven't seen it as much as I would like, it has been discussed. I have also posted articles by one of the few actual journalists left, Greg Palast, and his breaking story about millions of disenfranchised voters with a faulty program. People who now will not be allowed to vote in the GE in 2016.

[randys1]

78. twitter handle is right below what you are now reading, but it is so small, can I make it bigger?

[marym625]

79. Is it your signature?

I don't know how to make it bigger. Unfortunately, on my mobile version, I don't see signature lines for some reason

[randys1]

80. Yes, it is part of my sig, i have pic of Bernie too...I dont know anyway to make anything

bigger on DU...I think they intentionally made it so large fonts are not an option


here is the link

https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote

[marym625]

81. following

[randys1]

82. Thanks, please tweet any info about voter obstruction and if you witness it take pic and tweet

[marym625]

83. Do you follow Greg Palast?

The quintessential journalist for voter suppression

@greg_palast

[randys1]

84. What is so funny is I am extremely aware of him, have bought his movies from his website

and read him for years but forgot to follow him, am now though, thanks for reminding me

He is a hero, and maybe the best journalist alive today

[marym625]

85. couldn't agree more

[JustAnotherGen]

93. I love Palast

He made the Keystone pipeline impact easy to understand!

[marym625]

94. I have shared this before but I have to again

To my Mary that says

[randys1]

98. I have one of those, now that you mention it...he signs all his stuff

[marym625]

99. But does yours say

"To my Randy"?

[randys1]

100. Yep, he wrote my name on it

[marym625]

101. I meant the "my" part

Mine says "to my Mary"

I flirt with him. Made me smile

[randys1]

102. I will have to check, you may have me on that one LOL

[marym625]

103. hee hee

Let me know. Maybe I'm not so special

[HoosierRadical]

95. What is your twitter name? I will follow you.

[randys1]

97. twitter name

https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote

[heaven05]

96. I'm here

and don't stress out on hypocrites here and elsewhere. Not worth a valuable life. I get angry at the hypocrisy of this nation, culture, leaders and alleged 'liberal, progressive compatriots who always are revealed here sooner or later. DO NOT let them hurt you. THEY ARE NOT WORTH IT. I like RANDI and others. Haven't listened lately but she and others are in my bookmarks.

Breath......whole lung, slowly, when the clowns come out to make people cry. I'm speaking up whenever and wherever I have the opportunity to say something. Most people these days, for various reason, do not care. Others are happy that voting rights are getting suspended and gladly accept the corporate/fascist/oligarchic system we live in today in the name of "peace and safety", of which their is none for large segments/populations of this society.

We will stand and fall together! I salute you.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

104. I was a HUGE Randi Rhodes fan. Nicole was o.k., but she was always attacking Obama unfairly

in my view.

DU seems to be anti-Randi for some reason and I think I know why, too.

She's a brilliant woman, much more brilliant and knowledgeable than Maddow in my view, and doesn't need a Ph.D. in political science (like myself or Maddow) to prove it.

Anyway, I miss Randi terribly. I stopped listening to progressive radio altogether when she left. I was no longer interested. First, Stephanie, then Randi. I was done after that.

I can't get "The Black Eagle" or Mark Thompson's show, so again, that's it for me.