An open letter to African-Americans who have left DU

[steve2470]

Please come back, if you can forgive the past. If things were too much in the past and it's impossible, I certainly understand completely.

I will do my best to support you. I know it will not be enough, but I will do my best. The Democratic Party and the progressive movement need you, and everyone!

[Cha]

1. Poignant letter, steve.. mahalo~

[steve2470]

2. thanks, mahalo! :) nt

[JI7]

3. i would like to see many return also but i don't blame anyone

if they don't want to.

and the reason many left has not changed and in many cases gotten worse .

[steve2470]

4. yes, sadly nt

[ellenrr]

5. It's opportunistic to tell African Americans to come back bec. the DP need them.

first of all, this is not the website of the Dem Party. This is democratic underground, not the Democratic Party.
2nd, I don't know who is here, and who left, but I wish there were more African Americans speaking, bec. it is boring to always get the caucasian pov.

[steve2470]

6. .....

Ok, I want them back, personally. I care about them. Geeze louise.

[Feral Child]

28. Yes, ellen was impolite.

You spoke from the heart. Not every post needs to be scrutinized by a lawyer before submission.

I echo your sentiments.

[Cha]

7. Lighten up.. This is steve's heartfelt open letter for any of the African Americans who left to

please consider returning to DU.. "Progressive movement".. not just the "Democratic Party".. he knows very well this is Democratic Underground.. and we need their voices.

[ellenrr]

10. In my experience, people tell someone to 'lighten up' either bec. they disagree with the message or

they don't understand it.
Either way, it's a trite and banal phrase.

[Cha]

12. Actually "lighten up" is exactly what you need to do.. I don't care how

"banal" you find it.

[Feral Child]

30. OK, I'll be more explicit but you won't like it:

You were rude. The sentiment expressed in the OP was sincere and his intent obvious. It isn't necessary to hire a lawyer to check every post for clarity before submission.

The OP spoke from the heart and his message was clear to us that have a heart.

You know, I've heard that Quell shampoo is very good for troublesome nits. Picking at them can leaves sores.

Now, was that original enough for your professional critique?

[JustAnotherGen]

25. +10000

[JustAnotherGen]

23. No it's not

And well if you look at history -what's the point of posting in GD? We tell the truth - we get hidden. If we challenge - we get told by Admin to eat our peas.

At the end of the day it seems to me that the AA Group (I'm a host back) here has pretty robust and honest discussions.

We are here - we just aren't going into the sandbox where it is FULLY acceptable to kick sand in our faces.

I've also found that from an intersection perspective - Jewish heritage, Women's Issues, PRO GLBT and poverty in general - we are more productive in brainstorming in this group and groups focused on those issues I've just listed than in the GD.

[Cha]

27. ..

"Eat your peas" ! Gen

[Behind the Aegis]

43. You know why!

BIG OLE !

[vlyons]

8. if AAs have left, what's the point of posting on DU?

If they went elsewhere, they won't see your message here. Other than expressing the sentiment that ALL sane and reasoning people are welcome to join the conversation, it's seems your post only advantage is to make you feel better. Don't you have to post on the sites where the AAs are to ask them to come back here?

[steve2470]

9. ok, your points....

1- They might lurk here and see it. Maybe not. Maybe someone will send them an email.

2- That was a personal attack about it making me feel better. YOU need to feel ashamed. I'd say something much more pungent, but I'd get my very first hide in 10 years.

3- Post those sites and I'll do it.

eta: Clarified meaning.

[vlyons]

14. Why did you perceive it as a personal attack?

It was an observation, not an attack. If you felt ashamed, then that's totally your own emotion, not mine. I can't make you feel anything; I'm not that powerful. You are the only one, who generates and controls your emotions. Do you frequently perceive disagreements as personal attacks? You might want to look at that. The business about the hide completely eludes me. I don't have a clue what that means.

My AA friends seem to like thegrio.com.

[steve2470]

15. I'm not ashamed, and that statement was a personal attack

Why would I post this OP if I was ashamed ?

Sorry, personal attack. No need to say that.

Ok, go get busy, help me invite African-Americans back to DU.

Good day.

[Cha]

16. Whether you meant it as a personal attack or not.. "it's seems your post only advantage is to make

you feel better." It's ridiculous.

[steve2470]

11. ok, later today I'll go through that url and do exactly that...

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=%22African-American%22&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


Why don't you do the same ?

[steve2470]

17. that tweet just reached all of my followers and will spread from there

https://twitter.com/globalclimatefl/status/541912472513310720

[Cha]

13. Oh.. and this is going to surprise you.. but, sometimes when people leave they

still read DU. Or, they could have friends on DU and this could be passed on to them.

[marym625]

18. It's not a secret site

Anyone can see it.

[JI7]

21. this is the African American group

[BlueCaliDem]

34. I believe that newbie, ahem, didn't notice that this is the African American Group. Just saw it

on the Latest Threads and decided to flex it's, um, less-than-hospitable-toward-minorities mouth.

[JustAnotherGen]

22. Many lurk and continue to read

And then they opt to not post in disgust.

I'm next on the list of those who will slowly fade away and just lurk.

And - there are two I've connected with at a site for black women who figured out who I was based on the links from here - that I posted there in the political board.

[M0rpheus]

44. Early Morning drive-by to acknowledge that truth.

Many lurk and continue to read, And then they opt to not post in disgust.

I resemble that remark.



On Edit: GD has become a stinking cesspool, yet again. While there are many places I could comment, why bother?

[steve2470]

45. I hope the admins read this thread nt

[M0rpheus]

46. I've been here for over a decade.

This is nothing new. It's happened before, and it's happening again. There's a whole list somewhere here in AA of posters who were once VERY active and just left because it's not worth it.

Admin has taken a hands off approach regarding this dynamic for the most part, with 1 notable exception here in AA. They know what we think already.

That said, I do appreciate the request in your OP.

[Feral Child]

31. Jesus!

What's the use of doing anything, since the sun will go red giant in 4 billion years or so and consume the earth.

Does every fucking post need to be censored and objected to?

You're the 2nd Literature Professor to critique this OP. Maybe it was meant as a cautionary tale for insensitive jerks that spend too much time picking posts apart rather than empathizing with the emotional needs of other members.

Perhaps you'd rather be called out by name when you (like every one of us) occasionally fucks up the message. Lighten the fuck up.

[marym625]

19. Not sure if everyone woke up on the wrong side of the bed

Or what. But geeze. It's a nice letter. It can be seen outside of DU and it's certainly nothing to be upset about.

Except we have managed to drive away many black members

[steve2470]

20. Hopefully some will see it, I did a tweet, I'll go on a few AA sites too

My guess, and it's nothing more than a guess, is that most will not come back. Thanks for your support!

I can understand realistic, balanced, nuanced, "big picture", fair critiques of PBO. I think he also needs to be given credit for all the good he has done, which is a lot, imho. I think that's the main thing. DU seems to be OBAMA BAD so often. It's very tiresome and not accurate, whatsoever. Even FDR was flawed, give me a break.

I think some of the "Obama bad" stuff is under the radar racism. How much, I don't know. But definitely a percentage.

[brush]

26. You nailed it with this phrase . . .

Last edited Mon Dec 8, 2014, 08:09 PM - Edit history (1)

"under the radar racism".

I still can't get over the president being called a "lying used car salesman piece of shit" with many on this site agreeing with the sentiment.

There was a huge battle about it and I do appreciate those who pushed back against the posting but I feel that was a huge factor, along with all the other continual Obama bashing, that drove many away.

I mean how do you call a president from your own party a lying piece of shit?

[steve2470]

37. yea the LUCSPOS comment put me over the edge....

Haven't seen a sincere apology for that yet, either.

[rbrnmw]

39. that was disgusting

AA's have taken more shit since President Obama was elected It's like we went back a few decades. I have never seen a POTUS treated so badly. DU GD has so many op's hating on the President it's sickening.

[Eleanors38]

29. I have my criticisms of Obama, but I rarely post

them here, preferring to look beyond at what those criticisms imply for policy and belief, because of the highly personalized and accusatory atmosphere in DU on matters of race and gender I.D. There are many subjects in both these topic areas which should be discussed, but not in this atmosphere. Just a white guy's view.

[steve2470]

40. As I said, as long as you adopt the constructive posture, I see no problems

My personal policy is because of GD being so OMFG OBAMA BAD, I don't post any criticisms. If I have something that eats at me, I will write an old-fashioned letter directly to the President and/or to my congresscritters. To date, I have not done so. I know compared to some DU'ers, that makes me look pretty apathetic. I'll own up to not being a good activist.

I know what you're saying, and I think I understand. If DU went back to being much more supportive of PBO, then, ok, I might venture a very positive, very constructive suggestion. I'd couch it so that it was crystal clear that while I support the President 100%, could he and his administration please pay attention to this issue X and look at it this way Y ?

[gollygee]

41. It's almost like people don't want them to come back.

Hopefully there's another reason for the bizarre negative reactions.

[marym625]

42. strange reactions that's for sure

But I hadn't thought about your reason. I don't like that reason. I sure hope that's not it

[JustAnotherGen]

24. Will tweet this from my laptop

When I get home tonight!

[Feral Child]

32. steve2470, my friend

Despite the personal attacks and frigid critiques, your OP was a sensitive an sincere appeal, not only to the AA community in general, but to all of us it was a reminder that others have their unique perspective that needs to be considered and appreciated.

Thanks for sharing and don't let the critical creeps dishearten you. Many of us appreciate your effort.

[steve2470]

33. thank you, Feral Child

I did not come to the AA group for many years because I'm a white guy. I felt it would not be polite to come here and intrude. That's how I used to feel.

No longer. I am in solidary with this community. I am still learning and growing. I vividly remember my very first post here, about the movie "The Help". Everyone was so kind and helpful to me. In GD, I would have probably been called some very unkind names.

[Feral Child]

35. To be honest

Last edited Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:15 PM - Edit history (1)

I usually just prowl the Latest Threads page. I get an adequate overview of events but miss the id-depth sort of threads in the Groups.

I need to correct that. Besides missing out, I often subject myself to the turmoil in GD because that turns up most often in the Latest.

I'm beginning to believe that picking a few specific groups might be a better strategy. AA would be one, I'm sure. I'm considered white, despite the fact my father was NA.

I was raised in a working-class, predominently white neighborhood in a very diverse large city in the Midwest. I've never been exposed to NA culture, so my heritage is white, union Democrat. My parents were atheist union people and were not at all prejudiced. When I hit High School and was exposed to a more diverse experience I was shocked and appalled by the rampant prejudice. I became a teen and more culturally aware during the mid-sixties, during the Southern resistance to intergration but too young to participate.

It made an impact that has lasted and been reinforced my entire life. Among my chief political concerns I consider bigottry to be foremost. I empathize with the sorrow that minority people, the LGBT community, and women of all cultures must feel daily, knowing they are hated by and in constant danger from a huge segment of the white population.

It infuriates me. See my sig-line. The potency of the truth of that statement seems so inherently obvious that I'm amazed and angered by people so self-absorbed, hateful, and secretly afraid that they must convince themselves they're somehow superior to their personal target group. Groups, actually, because most bigots hate anything the consider different.

I'll be sure to visit here more often.

[Blue_Tires]

36. I discovered a couple of lost black DUers when I finally joined twitter

actually, there's a whole lot of DUers in general on twitter...I've only matched up a few with their DU names, though...

[steve2470]

38. I did a big tweet and begged for retweets nt

[heaven05]

47. I agree

we need them back and many more of the true liberals and progressives who got fed up with the BS and left. We're really, all in this together, whether some of the 'others', generic term, want to accept their brand of lefty liberalism. I'm glad to have thinkers and doers, like you, here.

[steve2470]

48. thanks, I so agree!

BTW, when you are ready, I want to hear stories from you and your dad. It would be very interesting.

[Number23]

49. A few years ago I posted a Hearts post in the BOG for posters that don't post here anymore

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11022758

Some of the people I hearted have returned (Nance, Hekate and a few others) but what's really interesting is the number of black posters on that list.

Just off the top of my head:

KindofBlue
FiredupDem
NatBurner
BrewmanJaxx (who was the King of the AA forum back in the day and created the incredible Black History that doesn't make it into the History Books and Graphic Examples threads that I brought into DU3. I last saw him a while ago on another web site and he basically told me he wouldn't post on DU if he was paid too)
Karenina (if Brewman was the King, she was the queen. A 2001 sign up poster)
Angee_is_Mad
Empowerer
goclark
quiet.american
MadMaddie
Chovexani
Uzybone
Frenchiecat
PoliticalDem
ampad
Hell, we can probably add Prosense to the list now too. She's had so much trash thrown her way for so long and now she's not posting much anymore either.

Some were tombstoned (Fire1, HamdenRice (who is quite successful on Daily Kos from what I've heard) and RaineyB) And then we had SemicharmedQuark who wasn't black but was an incredibly smart and funny as hell Latina. Starbucks Anarchist was a super fun, super smart Indian guy. Neither of them post here anymore which leaves the number of Latin and Indian posters here probably in the single digits.

And I'm sure I've left off a bunch. And whether this web site is smart enough to recognize it or not, this place is lessened more than I could ever articulate for having lost this much minority representation. It is a damn shame, but considering how infested this place is with disaffected white people that love nothing more than to crap all over this president, it's not at all surprising.

[steve2470]

50. A real shame to see all those people gone, probably forever

Remember when the LGBT community had a purge of sorts, a few years back ? They rebelled, and the admins reached some sort of compromise with them. The same needs to be done with the AA community. This "only the worst shit/blatant racism gets hidden" jury practice has to go. Unless moderation returns, it seems as if eventually ALL African-Americans will be driven away.

I've thought of doing an ATA post on this, but it would really frustrate me to get a response back that the juries are ok, yada yada. When 95% of a core constituency of the Democratic Party leaves your website, SOMETHING IS THE FUCK WRONG. It's not rocket science.

[Number23]

51. The only post Skinner has ever made in this forum (as far as I know) was to chastise bravenak

who truthfully called a post from Manny Goldstein racist and came here to talk about it after her post was hidden, which is exactly the kind of BS that happens here ALL OF THE TIME.

Skinner came in here to tell her that by saying MG's post was racist she was calling him racist too. It was the classic tone deafness that the remaining black posters here (as well as lots of female posters as well) have come to expect.

So between the "the jury works great and there aren't any problems" and the staggering tone deafness on racial issues, I think it's pretty clear where DU stands on race issues. Which is why that list of black and minority posters that wouldn't step foot in this place is so long and keeps growing.

[steve2470]

52. very sad

Skinner definitely stepped in it that time. Skinner and EarlG, if you're reading this, something has to be done. I know it's not easy running a site like this, but you MUST retain the AA community. The jury system was a noble experiment, but a failure. It's time is over.

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. Here's athought about "something being done" ...

Perhaps it would be prudent to talk with those of us remaining BEFORE answering/providing a fix. Too often, what is thought to be a fix, doesn't approach what the affected group, sees as the problem. But in true white liberal fashion, "Daddy knows best."

[steve2470]

57. yes I agree

My prediction is if nothing is done or if something ineffective is done, eventually DU will be devoid of minority posters. Which is probably the goal for the trolls, both paid and unpaid. GD has turned into troll central.

[okaawhatever]

68. +100 nt

[kwassa]

54. You just took me down memory lane. I miss many of those posters.

Aside from minority points of view, they had great individual points of view.

[NOLALady]

84. Swampy!

[Number23]

86. Yes, you are absolutely right!

How could I forget???

[Tarheel_Dem]

53. It was a coordinated effort, and it clearly worked. So much for our "liberal" allies.

[1StrongBlackMan]

58. Sadly, coordinated by less than 5 ...

imagine if that crew worked FOR something positive ... beyond the ill-defined, "Income Inequality" (Read: Their own pocket).

[Tarheel_Dem]

72. Ding! Ding! Ding! Their main contribution here seems to be their opposition to anything Obama.

That and the dreaded "BOG". They don't dare go after this group directly, so the "BOG" represents a proxy.

[steve2470]

55. no re-tweets of my original plea on Twitter..ZERO.. that's SAD..... sigh

https://twitter.com/globalclimatefl/status/542009249669591040

[1StrongBlackMan]

59. That's because ...

Last edited Thu Dec 11, 2014, 12:40 PM - Edit history (1)

1290 views (29 recs) and 58 replies ... the vast majority of which are from PoC; and (most) of those NOT PoCs, it shows because they what to talk about everything BUT "Please Come Back, We Value Your POV,if not you as people."

[steve2470]

60. you nailed it

I thought on Twitter I would get at least a few retweets. I have 600 followers. Zero.

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. Two things ...

I know if I had vacated DU and, later, received your tweet ... the first thing I would do (before re-tweeting) is re-visit the site to see if anything had changed. I would go to the AA Group and listen to the discussions among the Black folks present. I, then, would lurk the site to see what the non-PoCs were saying, in general. And lastly, I would look at the reception the call received.

Secondly, the low response/rec rate might be attributable to the fact that the Open Letter was posted to the AA Group (which most DUers avoid like the plague). Perhaps, if it were posted to the GD, the number of DUers that support the call will out-number the number that wish to detract/deflect. (Yes ... I am the eternal optimist ... willing to be pleasantly surprised).

[steve2470]

62. I guess I'm a tad nervous it would be ruled Meta and locked

well....here goes. Wish me luck!

[steve2470]

63. GD x-post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025944287

[1StrongBlackMan]

65. Please ... Oh, Please DU ...

Don't show your a$$!

[steve2470]

67. so far so good nt

[noiretextatique]

82. wow...unbelievable

especially that jerk lecturing the japanese person about japanese

[steve2470]

83. yes horrible, another classic example of DU failure nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

64. I'm with you, Steve.

[steve2470]

66. thanks! nt

[malaise]

69. Excellent post

Rec for the under the radar racism

[nc4bo]

70. Only under the radar if one isn't trained to spot it.

And by training, I do not mean from books.

The training I'm referring to comes from personal experiences and observations.

It IS very much alive on DU and I guess that's what's so damned disheartening.

[malaise]

71. Yes indeed

[steve2470]

76. thanks! nt

[Spazito]

73. I replied to your post in GD but wanted to support your OP here as well...

part of me just wants to give a BIG hug to those who have left as well as one for those who remain because what I read in GD makes me heartsick, I can only imagine how it affects AA DUers.

A very inadequate

[steve2470]

74. any reactions to how the thread is doing in GD ?

I'm a bit surprised there are not more recs. Not recs for "my op" but the overall idea. I'm hoping as time goes on, more will see it and rec it and Admin will study it.

[JustAnotherGen]

75. I saw this after I posted a direct thanks to you

Swear on my father's grave. That serious.

To look at my post at the end of the thread.

[steve2470]

77. I saw it, thanks :) nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

78. I commend you for X-Posting this to GD ...

the results were, largely, encouraging. It was, also, enlightening that some vehemently "showed their hands."

Thanks ... you shook the trees and a few trolls fell out.

[steve2470]

79. thanks

I'm amazed it has not been locked. Hopefully long-term the thread will help to reform DU. I'm really hoping the admins read it carefully and reform DU. If not, eventually I and the PoC will be leaving DU. I don't want DU to be a Stormfront Lite.

[1StrongBlackMan]

80. Understand ...

DU will never be a Stormfront-lite. While stormfront focuses on Race; DU would be as happy as a pig in slop, if Race/Racial issues were never mentioned.

That way they could focus on what is REALLY important ... their personal freedom to smoke dope, while pontificating about a war/(international) violence-free society, all while being free from the evil that is government, while they adjust the place on the economic ladder (not by climbing, but by trying to pull those above them, down.)

[steve2470]

81. yea you're right

I think that any kind of race-related issue would sink like a stone then, if even brought up. I think for DU to have any claim to the mantle "Democratic", the admins have to rectify this. Otherwise, it will become known unofficially as Non-PoC Underground.

check this out, I liked his post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025944287#post315

[YoungDemCA]

85. Well said

[Number23]

87. Ummm...are the admins asleep, dead or what?

Steve your ATA question is just sitting there and I've seen there are comments that have been sitting there since the damn 3rd of December! What the hell is going on??

It's bad enough they don't address the many issues that people are constantly bringing to their attention. Now, it seems that they've just checked out completely.

[steve2470]

88. I have no clue

My guess is they are preoccupied trying to get Discussionist "launched". My question was actually a comment about how slow DU has been lately. I might put a question in to them about my big thread in GD, but I'm afraid the answer will be "juries rule, no problem here, we still have African-Americans and other minorities at DU, blah blah". I really don't want to hear that.

[kwassa]

89. It appears that the admins don't admin.

They don't need to They set up an automated system that allows them no active task to keep this site running.

A gradual disengagement that frees the up them to o other things.