Supreme Court hears Medal of Honor case, ponders political lies

[pinboy3niner]

Source: Los Angeles Times

The Supreme Court seems unmoved by Xavier Alvarez of Pomona, who lied about receiving a Medal of Honor. His lawyer says the 1st Amendment trumps the Stolen Valor Act.



The Medal of Honor. (Bill Hogan / Chicago Tribune / May 23, 2008)


By David G. Savage, Washington Bureau
February 23, 2012


Reporting from Washington— The Supreme Court justices spoke with disdain about liars who claim to have earned military honors, but they sounded less sure how to handle another group known for shading the truth: politicians.

"In the commercial context, we allow a decent amount of lying. It's called puffing. 'You won't buy it cheaper anywhere,' " said Justice Antonin Scalia. "So maybe we allow a certain amount of puffing in political speech as well. Nobody believes all that stuff, right?"

The exchange came midway through Wednesday's argument over whether the freedom of speech shields people who falsely claim military honors. The Stolen Valor Act in 2006 makes these lies a crime.

With the exception of Justice Sonia Sotomayor, none of the justices sounded as though they were convinced by a lawyer for Xavier Alvarez that the law should be struck down on 1st Amendment grounds.

...


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-court-lies-20120223,0,7965598.story

Related thread posted in LBN by alp227:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101458706

[rhett o rick]

1. Georgie Bush had a photo on an official website shortly after his election showing him

in uniform with medals that he didnt earn. When confronted, the picture was taken down.

[Skittles]

2. how hard would it be to research and find out if said person won the medal of honor?

it's not like that award is handed out like candy

[pinboy3niner]

4. For that medal, it's not hard at all

It's easy to find sites online that list MOH recipients.

Now there's talk of legislation to create a database on recipients of all military decorations.

[MADem]

7. Yes, some sites even list the salient portion of the citation so we can get an idea of how it was

earned.

I found out recently a guy I worked with in a joint scenario many years ago was one helluva badass--he was like Hank Hill's daddy, killed fi-dee foah men! His unit came under attack unexpectedly and he just started throwing grenades tossed at them BACK at the enemy! It was an act of both necessity and valor--he must have had lightning quick reflexes--he did sustain some pretty major wounds to his face and elsewhere as a consequence, but he was able to continue serving.

I knew he had the thing, but some stuff, eh, you just don't ask. Now I kind of wish I had!

They actually could do that legislation--it would take some work, though. They would need to manually enter a lot of the material from the old paper records going back to the days of the Revolutionary War (good news there, is, there weren't very many medals back then).

That database actually exists (it's not always accurate, though)--at least for records that have been maintained since the dawn of the computer age. They'd simply have to export it from personnel data (and probably find someone to make all the diffferent programs that were used down the years find a way to merge with one another). It would be an interesting project for someone who likes that kind of attention-to-detail work and knows how to actually DO that type stuff.

[douglas9]

9. Valor Awards (Recipients in our database have recieved the following awards:)

http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-awards/list.php?category=Awards

[shraby]

10. How would I find out about my father's bronze star? He never would say how

he earned it..actually he never would say much at all about WWII

[douglas9]

11. Check the link below

Military Times only has 628 Bronze Star citations in their data base. Just put your dad's name in link below. Maybe you will be lucky and find it there.

http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-awards/search.php?medal=7

[shraby]

15. I tried it and he's not on there.

[pinboy3niner]

12. Next-of-kin can apply here for military record information:

http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/

[razorman]

16. I am in a similar situation. My dad received the Bronze Star in Vietnam, but has never told

me the story. I heard a second-hand tale from a friend of his, but do not know whether it was true.

[gejohnston]

17. from the combat vets I know

if the story includes a lot of death and destruction and your dad never talks about it, it is very most likely true.

[denbot]

3. It would be terrible if they ruled that misrepresenting military service, or awards was free speech.

If you can be prosecuted for impersonating a police officer, you damn sure should be prosecuted for impersonating a M.O.H. winner.

[MADem]

8. That might be the way they slice and dice it--good approach on your part, there!

Let's not talk about lying, let's instead talk about impersonation!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

14. Stop your car, get out, lay on the ground ...

After that, "I have military medals" has a different ring of authority than "I am a cop".

I saw a TV interview with a (presumed) genuine M.O.H. recipient. He commented that the impersonators don't diminish the award or the person who was awarded. It just diminishes the liar. Made sense.

[catnhatnh]

5. My Fucking God...

...just because I know what it takes to get "the bronze star of continual existence" which my brother got in "71...It took just rocking and rolling and staying alive. Which he did in the Ah Shau. I won;t tell to0 much it but was it.about people dying and mistakes nade

[MADem]

6. Scalia is a real piece of work.. " Nobody believes all that stuff, right?"

Problem is, they do, and that is how we end up with nitwits like Dubya!

I think, if they rule to uphold the law, it will be one of those "exceptions that proves the rule" type deals. Some things are third rails--MOH is one of 'em.

We'll see, though. If they end up finding for the liar, I'll bet a group will take on, as their primary mission, the goal of Naming and Shaming people who lie about this kind of thing (like the SEALS, et. al., do).

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

13. Nobody believes the right wing Supreme Court nominees either

but, like Thomas, Roberts, they get approved anyway.