"2 teens on West Side among 15 shot, 3 fatally, on New Year's Day" - Happy New Year Chicago

[DonP]

Two teenagers were shot and seriously wounded this afternoon in the Humboldt Park neighborhood, among at least 15 people shot since midnight Monday, three of them fatally, authorities said.

A 20-year-old West Side man was the first Chicago homicide victim of 2013, one of 11 people across the city shot since midnight.

Someone shot Octavius Dontrell Lamb, 20, in the throat in the 700 block of North Noble Street in the West Town neighborhood on the West Side, according to a spokeswoman for the Cook County medical examiner’s office.

We're off to another great start here, after a record year with murders up 18% over prior year. It's probably the fault of the target shooters down in Bonfield Illinois, so let''s ban their guns.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

1. of course it is the surrounding area's fault. they have lax gun laws. the laws are at fault. we need

to make MORE LAWS. so that people will have MORE LAWS to break.

but truly, tis a sad way to start the New Year and I wish Chicago all the best with all their urban issues.

[DonP]

3. BTW, I'm serious about that rifle ban they're proposing

In 2011 we had a total of 3 crimes involving rifles of any kind in the state. (FBI UCR)

So with this kind of carnage on the streets of Chicago every weekend (518 dead last year) their priority is to ban so called "assault weapons" in the lame duck legislative session.

Just last month they lost their case against concealed carry and racked up another huge legal bill to pay for the NRA and ISRA. Now they're at it again/ But it's not like they're using their own money is it?

[MightyMopar]

6. "Urban"=code for it's just black or brown people so who cares

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. well, no matter what color they are they are in a metropolis. The rural people I know, no matter

the color or ethnicity do not do this shit and we all own guns and we all hunt.

the bullshit on here about that being wrong is just NOT TRUE.

I know it. I live it.

I live in a fairly diverse cultural area, about 15 minutes from a city with these demographics:
As of the census[1] of 2000, there were 37,222 people, 15,372 households, and 9,361 families residing in the city. There were 16,571 housing units at an average density of 640.4 per square mile (227.9/km²). The racial composition of the city was: 77.23% White, 14.09% Black or African American, 7.69% Hispanic or Latino American, 3.90% Asian American, 0.19% Native American, 0.06% Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, 3.08% some other race, and 1.46% two or more races.

(eta) and the county demos:
As of the census[2] of 2010, there were 160,000 people, 55,533 households, and 39,095 families residing in the county. The population density was 354 people per square mile (137/km²). There were 59,919 housing units at an average density of 150 per square mile (58/km²). The racial makeup of the county was 87.1% White, 8.5% Black or African American, 0.3% Native American, 3.1% Asian, 0.05% Pacific Islander, and 1.14% from two or more races, 9.4% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.

that urban people turn on themselves,,,is a complicated issue and it will take MORE than the gun laws to solve the problem.

Note: I am saying "more than" Gun Laws and NOT saying that I am against more gun laws just it is NOT The only Cause or Factor (and therefore NOT the Only Solution) in this convoluted problem.

[MightyMopar]

12. Less competition among drug dealers in rural areas

Plus more rural people like oxycontin

[Tuesday Afternoon]

43. has less to do with race and more to do with socioeconomic and geographic factors.

[ileus]

2. It's the gun show loophole again.

[DonP]

4. Nah! They closed that here years ago - guess again

ALL firearm sales at shows must clear through an FFL, NICS check and all.

But Daley did try and blame Indiana and Iowa for the guns in Chicago.

[MightyMopar]

7. Isn't Indiana where they get the guns?

[gejohnston]

9. How? Just walk in to a gun store?

No. Interstate private sales without FFL, federal crime.
http://www.atf.gov/statistics/trace-data/2011-trace-data.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968
Based on the ATF data, they come from Illinois.

[MightyMopar]

13. 18% come from Indiana, then there's Chuck's gun shop

The ATF is wildly underfunded and has no director. One thing that pisses me off about gun pushers talking about how gun laws don't work is that no money or resources are allocated to enforce laws. I wish they'd make Bloomberg ATF director for a couple of years.


http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/14715658-418/chicago-gangs-dont-have-to-go-far-to-buy-guns.html

[gejohnston]

15. other problems are

that the ATF's lack of professionalism, lack of integrity, and an EEO nightmare as a cesspool of racists and sexists. That is a problem dating back to when they were part of the IRS. The ATF's problem is not so much the funding, it is the quality of agents.
Directors should be professional law enforcement who enforce the law not ideologues that go on TV to have a reporter fire a full auto from the hip saying "you can buy these at gun shows". That is why he is not being confirmed. That is why Bloomberg has no business being director, especially since the ATF sent him cease and desist letters for him to stop his James O'Keefe stunts. Bloomberg can't even keep his own cops from selling NYPD guns to the gangs.
If you notice the average time to crime, over ten years. It isn't that hard to bust a bad dealer, since any clerical error can result in a lost FFL and prison time. I can think of two in Florida off the top of my head. One of them was busted by the state for racial discrimination for their CCW classes. If Chuck's is guilty, they can make a case if they make the effort. Until then, trial by media/electronic lynching comes to mind. I am very jaded about the media assigning guilt, since they are often wrong.

[MightyMopar]

19. Numbers don't lie, Chuck's sells a lot of guns to crooks

Personally I think gun dealers are the same as drug dealers, scumbags profiting from misery. Screw em!

[gejohnston]

23. where did the numbers come from?

The ATF will only give out specific trace data to cops and DAs for official use. So, how did the Sun Times get them? BTW, what is the journalistic standards of the Sun Times? Never read it, but Wiki calls it a tabloid.

[MightyMopar]

24. Sure would be good if the public knew what was going on in these gunshops

Heck it doesn't seem like the ATF really knows what's going on. Maybe Wikileaks or Anonymous could help if the government can't get the job done. It would be fitting if the gun culture lost the first cyberwar.

[gejohnston]

25. you are confusing the criminal acts of gangsters with

people who own guns for legitimate purposes. Last time Wikileaks was involved, it exposed the cartels getting machine guns from Central America and abroad.
I support the current law. I am opposed to witch hunts regardless of the industry.

[MightyMopar]

26. All these wonderful gun owners are good guys until they aren't

I personally dealt with actual "good guys "who turn into killers, the gangbanger thing is just racism.

[PavePusher]

27. "Gangbangers" are all one race?

Which one?

[MightyMopar]

29. The bad ones, the "others", the ones that don't matter, the underclass

[gejohnston]

28. not buying it

the FBI says most murderers and murder victims have criminal records. To say that all gangsters are other than white strikes me as kind of racist. Most of the murders in the US are concentrated in a few areas in cities, often infested with gangs. I have have never met a good guy gone bad.

[MightyMopar]

31. You've never met a good guy that went bad but cities are "infested with gangs"?

You have no business commenting on anything going on in the real world, hug your gun hard and go back to fantasyland. Most of those "gangbangers" started out as good guys and many are probably still more moral than you are. I guess you think they're born "gangbangers" and many of the most ruthless violent gangs are motorcycle gangs who are based in rural areas like the Pagans motorcycle gang.

[gejohnston]

32. Hardly,

I have never stolen from anyone, murdered anyone, sold drugs. Nor have I spread the "it's bad to snitch" to keep the peasants and prey from fighting back. So, don't feed me that shit.

[MightyMopar]

33. I'm from a generational law enforcement/social worker family and know about the real world

It's not what you don't know that makes one a fool, it's what you know that ain't so that makes one a fool.

No wonder you hug your gun, what a sad sort you are. I seriously doubt you voted for Obama.

[gejohnston]

34. impressive

I'm also from a law enforcement family, lived in some of those neighborhoods, lived in more countries than you probably have been in states, and voted for Obama twice. While living in one of those neighborhoods, my wife and I did some work with ACORN. Drug gangs don't like ACORN. Do you have a valid point to make or just more childish personal attacks?

[MightyMopar]

36. I had friend in ACORN in 1977 before anyone heard about it

You'd think you would have met a good person who went bad because of mental illness, family problems, alcohol, bad luck, predjudice or gained some sympathy for those "infested gangbangers".

There was a murder where there were 2 neighbors, one planted a row of shrubbery down the property line and after it was done his neighbor cut it all down with a lawn mower, the previously law abiding guy who planted the shrubbery snapped and blew away the guy who mowed down his shrubbery with a handy shotgun. If he didn't have that gun, he probably wouldn't have been charged with murder.

[gejohnston]

37. once the local cops and the AFOSI sit you down and tell you

that the local gangs have a contract out on your wife and one of her friends because their organizing was bad for business, I lose all sympathy. I do have sympathy for the good folks, the vast majority of the neighborhood, who were stuck under the gang's thumb. A lot of them did have bad luck, family problems etc. They didn't join gangs.

[MightyMopar]

38. Many have to join gangs just to survive so they can get guns to protect themselves

It's all a viscous circle revolving about the easy access to guns.

[gejohnston]

39. I'm old enough to remember

they rarely had guns, when federal laws were much laxer, but no WOD. Besides, the agents said something about firebombing my and the wife's friend's house.
It would make more sense to fix the real problems rather than try worn out duct tape that didn't work any place else.

[friendly_iconoclast]

44. So why does Houston have 1/2 the murder rate of Chicago?

It's in a state with easy access to guns and many legal gun owners.

[DonP]

16. Chuck's Gun Shop. you mean the one where all the Chicago cops buy guns and ammo?

I've never been in there without seeing at least one cop at the counter. Yeah, that's a hotbed of illegal sales I bet.

Sorry, if Chuck's was doing anything wrong Daley and the BATFE would have shut them down years ago.

But it does make a nice talking point for ignorant assholes and hypocrites like flaky Father Pfleger who know better but lie through their teeth.

[ileus]

11. Craigslist loophole?

[Loudly]

5. Shut down the gun trade from sea to shining sea.

Access to guns and ammunition is clearly a scourge.

[Clames]

10. Never going to happen Shares.

[MightyMopar]

14. Crime Down in New York City for 2011; Central Park After Dark Now Just 'Boringly Safe'

At Mayor Bloomberg's press conference about public safety today, he announced that crime in the city has been driven down 34 percent in the last 10 years, and that serious crime is down overall this year compared to last year, factoring in a change in the state's definition of felony assault. As of yesterday, the city had 499 murders in 2011, the third fewest since record-keeping began. "If you take a look at the NYPD, the resources that we devote to this size population, it is greater than other places," said Bloomberg. "We have funded the police department and the fire department to get these results."

From the report:

This will be the tenth consecutive year the city has seen less than 600 murders, with slightly more than 500 in 2011, a nearly five percent reduction from the previous year and the third lowest total since comparable records were kept starting in 1963. Overall crime, when compared using the same metrics, fell slightly again in 2011, marking the 21st straight year in which major felony crime has declined.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/12/crime_down_in_new_york_city_central_park.php

Put Bloomberg in charge of ATF, he'll put a dent in gun crimes.

[gejohnston]

17. mister "stop and frisk"?

I noticed non gun crime fell too.

[DonP]

18. "Boringly Safe" - if you're the right color

It's always funny what people obsessed with an issue can overlook if they find someone that supports their obsession.

Racist "Stop and Frisk" policies embraced, a Bush Cheney Terror watch list suddenly popular with progressives that hated it a few years ago, especially if you use it to stop gun sales, always funny.

[MightyMopar]

20. Far more Americans killed by domestic guns than by terrorists, soon more than killed in car wrecks

Dead kids are always funny (or do you mean "funny" in an ironic hipster sense?) to the RBKA crowd.

Better frisked than dead. I live in the rural south home of roadblocks every weekend and police cars everywhere. NYC is hardly the only place in America that has a heavy police presence.

[DonP]

21. So you think it's OK to randomly stop minorities to check for guns and drugs? Nice attitude.

Good to know what a gun control fan thinks is OK, as long as they "think" it will stop gun traffic, except it doesn't seem to work in Chicago, does it?

NYC or the South, those so called "random stops" that "happen" to stop minorities more than 65% of the time are still wrong as shit.

What's really funny are gun control people that basically sit on their ass and whine online and never get around to actually doing anything about it.

[MightyMopar]

22. But it's A-OK with you hypocritical gun pushers that so many murders are just in "urban" areas

If we didn't have so many easily available guns, there wouldn't have to be so much police presence to combat serious violent crime. When white suburban kids get whacked by Bushmasters then the gun pushers want to have nice debates to tamp down the anger until it subsides.

The present gun laws need to be enforced strongly with extreme prejudice. Gun dealers suck.

[friendly_iconoclast]

45. Then why does Houston (in gun-friendly Texas) have far fewer murders than Chicago?

Guns are far more available to Texans then they are to Chicagoans-

so why does Chicago have circa 2X as many murders per capita than Houston?

[Clames]

47. Bloomberg is a tyrant, a liar, and uses his wealth to shit...

...on anyone who isn't in his elite little clique of billionaires. Very telling you give him credit for anything including something he doesn't have a damn thing to do with.

[bubbayugga]

30. Fucking assault weapons. ban them now. End this carnage!

[AtheistCrusader]

35. Can I borrow your crystal ball? I want to get tomorrow's lottery numbers.

[bubbayugga]

40. I don't even know what that means.

I'm just tired of seeing all these young men die because you need to have your precious assault rifles.

[AtheistCrusader]

41. Doubling down.

First you assumed assault weapons had anything to do with the murders cited above.
Then, you skip straight to select fire rifles.

Regular semi-auto rifles classified as 'assault weapons' in the 1994 Comprehensive Assault Weapons Ban make up less than 3% of the firearms used in firearm-related homicides, every year.


Less than 3%.

[friendly_iconoclast]

46. There was exactly ONE murder commtted with a rifle in Illinois in 2011:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20

All that misplaced anguish...

[loknar]

48. You're more likely to be struck by lightning twice than by a bullet from an "assault weapon",

even in Chicago. "Assault weapons" are the most infrequently used homicide weapons in America. Cheapo handguns are the weapons of choice for the gangster types that account for the overwhelming majority of gun violence in America.

[rl6214]

42. Another gun free utopia