14 year old uses a shotgun to kill a man...

[virginia mountainman]

The man he killed was one in a group of 4 men, that was smashing down the door to his home, where he and his 17 year old sister was staying alone.

He defended his home and family. Will not be charged under North Carolina's Castle Law..

http://www.wafb.com/story/16447781/nc-boy-14-shoots-intruder-and-saves-sister

[Wistful Vista]

1. Too bad he couldn't nail the other 3 as well...

[applegrove]

2. Sharing the fantasy sells guns doesn't it?

[virginia mountainman]

3. what?!

Are you saying that was a fantasy???? Why would you say such a thing?

[applegrove]

6. I'm sure it did happen. Spreading this gun porn around is getting people to fantasize

about protecting their own 'homestead'. And so they'll go out and buy guns. This is a cycle.

[virginia mountainman]

7. What are you talking about??

Their are real threats out their...Your the one calling them "fantasy"

[ileus]

8. gun porn? or is it spreading how common home invasions are becoming?

[E6-B]

11. A cycle?

Guns didn't make the perps decide to break down a door.

[applegrove]

12. The cycle of scaring people into fantasizing so they'll buy a gun.

[Straw Man]

13. What completes the supposed cycle?

What happens next in your formulation? In what sense is it cyclic?

[applegrove]

14. The fantasy is to shoot a burglar. Then you get a gun. Then you are made

Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2012, 12:22 AM - Edit history (1)

to feel afraid that gub'ment will take your gun away, then you vote GOP, then funding is cut to pell grants, cuts to police, cuts to public schools and cuts to the needs of the poor, there is more crime, more fear, more fantacies, more guns, more fear of gub'ment taking your gun away, more GOP, more fear of government, more inequality and then you suddenly realize you are living in Mexico.

[virginia mountainman]

15. ok, let me get this straight..

You shoot a burglar, THAN you get a gun????

Nothing else needs to be said....

[applegrove]

16. Nope. You have a fantasy "to" shoot a burglar. Then "you" get a gun. It is clear enough.

Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2012, 12:20 AM - Edit history (1)

I guess you can't very well fight my main point can you?

[applegrove]

17. ....tick, tick, tick, tick, tick...

[Straw Man]

18. I don't vote GOP.

Cycle broken.

...tock, tock, tock.

[Straw Man]

21. Is a "fantacy" a kind of fancy fantasy?

I love portmanteau words...

Of course you must realize that all this control hysteria feeds the paranoia.

[applegrove]

22. My bad.

[oneshooter]

49. I believe that under the Canadian laws that some posters here

wish to impose on the US the homeowner would be arrested for not having the firearms"properly secured". The fact that the 14yr old could have access to them, and ammunition being proof. The firearms would be removed from the property, the license revoked, and the parents facing prison sentences and fines. The children would then be raised by the state.

Of course it is possible that without the firearm the goblins would have simply got the "stuff" that they wanted and left.

Or it also a possibility that they would have tied up the children and left them in the home.

Or it is a possibility that they could have done the above, then burned the house to cover thier crime.

So many possible scenerios to consider.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[E6-B]

35. Odd

Well this is really my first time I have heard of this mental process of fantasizing about killing burgulars.

[applegrove]

36. Are you saying there is no element of fantasizing in gun ownership... that gun owners or potential

gun owners never imagine using said gun? ....Interesting. I don't imagine myself with a gun and will never own one. But I do have a vacuum cleaner that needs to be fixed and whenever I think of doing that I do imagine myself vacuuming at some point....

[Union Scribe]

38. Just to be clear

are you accusing DUers of fantasizing about killing people? Because that would be in some poor fucking taste, yet it certainly looks like what you're doing.

[applegrove]

41. I am accusing some DUers of fantasizing about using a gun, to defend themselves, to kill someone,

hell little boys do it all day long with pretend guns. Are you saying people will buy something expensive that they never ever imagined using? Really? Not one little fantasy of pulling out a gun and saying "stop". One time. Before the trip to the gun store? Never?

[Union Scribe]

42. No, you're using the word fantasize, which has

a clear connotation. Imagining the use of something, or preparing to use something, is not "fantasizing," which implies (as your usage makes clear) a pleasurable daydreaming. I don't know what makes up your fantasies, but a dangerous criminal breaking into my house is not on my mental playlist, and others here have told you the same yet you persist in smearing DU gun owners. It's telling that you had to go back to "little boys" with pretend guns to justify your assumptions about the people here.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

43. I guess I fantasize about...

...getting into a car accident every time I put on my seatbelt?

Come up with something new. This argument is so old it farts dust.

[E6-B]

55. Prejudice view

Use what ever prejudice you feel necessary to justify your ideas. It is a free country.

[SteveW]

61. Well, who are they?

Keep in mind, with all respect, that planning reasonable home security (with or without a gun) requires imagining scenarios and problems, but maybe those are "fantasies" as well.

[BiggJawn]

57. Oh, allright, I'll fess up, I *DO* have a gun fantasy...

My gun fantasy is that some day before I die...

I'll be a good enough Marksman with a rifle to shoot at the National Matches at Camp Perry.

WTF is it with you that you think all gun owners "fantasize" about killing somebody? You ever consider talking to a professional about this problem of yours?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

50. Well....

The whole penis substitute meme had failed, then the fear canard was debunked, "blood in the streets" never happened, so they had to come up with SOMETHING...

[Straw Man]

19. But...

and then you suddenly realize you are living in Mexico.

...Mexican gun laws are far tougher than those in the US. How did all that inequality happen there?

[applegrove]

20. Crony capitalism. Mexico is 1/3 rich and 2/3 poor. The usa will be that way some day

and the 2/3 poor cannot afford to buy guns to protect themselves. Fact is the powers that be never allowed a middle class in Mexico. The powers that be in the USA lost to FDR and others. So the USA had good class mobility until wedge issues like guns, and fear were stirred up by the current powers that be.

[Straw Man]

23. So 2/3 of Mexicans cannot afford a firearm?

Somehow I doubt that.

The usa will be that way some day

Message: stock up now folks, while you still have a few coins in your pocket.

See how the hysteria works?

Guns as a wedge issue were handed to the Republicans on a silver platter. Let's not let that happen again.

[applegrove]

24. 2/3 of mexicans can't afford much. That is what poor means. Why so many get into crime and the

better lifestyle it offers... if only you are ready to kill.

[Straw Man]

25. I know what "poor" means.

I think you're pulling figures out of the air. I know that there is extreme income inequality in Mexico, and that income inequality in the US is growing. Your suggestion that the latter case is somehow fueled by the purchase of guns is what makes no sense to me. It certainly isn't borne out by your Mexican comparison.

[applegrove]

31. I am saying guns are being used to build up crony capitalism & the GOP in the USA.

I'm using Mexico as an example of what life is like when you live in an unequal economy. You all pretend it is fine and healthy to go over every instance of self defence and spread the virus. I'm saying there is a method to your madness. If you don't know about the method perhaps you shouldn't defend propaganda of the NRA and the GOP. It is madness!

[gejohnston]

33. since more Finnish

households and about as many Norwegian, Swiss, Canadian, and (to a lesser degree) French households have guns as we do..........
how does that work again?

[Straw Man]

37. And I'm saying "Nonsense."

You all pretend it is fine and healthy to go over every instance of self defence and spread the virus.

Since when is self-defense a "virus"? I thought it was an inalienable human right.

I'm saying there is a method to your madness. If you don't know about the method perhaps you shouldn't defend propaganda of the NRA and the GOP. It is madness!

I'm not defending "propaganda of the NRA and the GOP," and I don't much care for the implication. I'm defending the assertion that there is such a thing as successful armed self-defense. I see nothing mad about it. What I see as mad is the desire of many here to pretend that it doesn't exist, blinded as they are by their zealous hatred of anything to do with firearms.

[SteveW]

62. Well, those "wedge issues like guns" were promulgated by....? nt

[beevul]

29. What I want to know is...

"and then you suddenly realize you are living in Mexico."


What I want to know, is, how long after I have this realization, will ATF start walking guns my way?

[E6-B]

28. Fantasy?

Has anyone studied this 'fantasy to shoot burgulars'?

I can see it is a fantasy if no burgular shows up and no one get shot. Then you have some deluisional guy at home waiting for a burgular.

But that is not what happened or is happening. Real burgulars break down doors and have gotten shot.

I think your buying into vast right wing conspiracy there.

[applegrove]

30. I am talking about all the stories about gun justice that are posted here ad nausium. To create

fear and fantasy in people's minds. To lure people into the cycle of being an nra-er.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

47. Please...

...adjust the squelch on your NRAdar.

[ileus]

53. Each story is a chance to learn and think, we need more secnario based threads here.

We could compare tactics and responses.

Every story (with enough detail) is worthy of discussion, lives are on the line.

[E6-B]

56. 1st Amendment

Seems you also have a problem with people using 1st Amendment rights too.

[ManiacJoe]

32. What an odd world you live in.

> The fantasy is to shoot a burglar.

That is not a fantasy; that is a nightmare. No one in their right mind WANTS to shoot someone. That choice just ends up being the lesser of two evils. (The greater evil being that you get killed instead.)

[applegrove]

34. Then why is it lauded in the gungeon every time there is an example? The NRA is trying to change

how people think. Propaganda denoting the superpower one has when they have a gun and use it against 'some bad guy' leads to, well, people thinking about that and imagining themselves in that situation.

[Straw Man]

39. Why?

Why do the gun-ban people like to post an endless parade of "crime with a gun" stories? Well, you see, they want to demonize the use of firearms in order to further their prohibitionist agenda. And others want to counter this propaganda by pointing out the utility of firearms as tools of legitimate self-defense.

The NRA is "trying to change how people think"? How are people supposed to think? Are they supposed to think that it's better for people to become victims of violent crime than to use firearms in their own defense?

[Union Scribe]

40. What is the "it" you think is "lauded in the gungeon"?

(which is a derogatory term, btw). The "it" people here like in these stories is not the violence, it is that the innocent people won. The good guys. I don't think anyone needs to justify to you or apologize for cheering when that happens.

[ManiacJoe]

59. Exactly right.

[ManiacJoe]

60. You have the right idea, just the wrong classification.

> people thinking about that and imagining themselves in that situation

This is an excellent goal to have. Not because folks want to be in that bad situation, no one does. Being prepared for the situation can help you survive it. If you are thinking about this correctly then you recognize the situation as a bad one, plan and prepare what to do if you unfortunately get forced into that situation, and until then hope that the event never occurs.

[Wistful Vista]

63. If someone has already been proven to be a home-invading {burglar, robber, rapist, etc.}

he or she has abdicated any rights to life or survival...I would and will kill them without the slightest tinge of compunction. You may now castigate me for my violation of your "all criminals are really victims" principles.

[Callisto32]

44. That isn't a cycle, it is a process.

A cycle would require cycling back and starting over.

Moreover, it isn't even a process, it sounds like the State's position in:


514 U.S. 549 (1995)
UNITED STATES
v.
LOPEZ
No. 93-1260.

United States Supreme Court.
Argued November 8, 1994.

[hack89]

46. And this cycle can be proven with real data? nt

[We_Have_A_Problem]

48. You're kidding right?

Don't you know how offensive it is to ask for proof or data? How dare you think of offending someone who holds such passionate feelings about something by asking them to support their assertions? How rude!

[hack89]

54. Just another rude toter I guess. nt

[krispos42]

58. And Democratic positions are what makes people afraid the gov't will take your gun away...

so to speak. Thus causing the viscous cycle.

[Straw Man]

4. Are you claiming that this didn't actually happen?

If not, what are you talking about?

[ileus]

5. So it didn't happen? I knew it was too good to be true.

[rrneck]

9. Hyperbole driven umbrage wont get you very far.

Do you have a suggestion for self defense better than the one employed in the OP?

[ileus]

10. roll over and play dead? no wait...run out the back door!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

45. I don't know about you...

...but I have fond dreams of people breaking into my house back to when I was 8 or 9 years old. I probably even asked Santa for a home invader once or twice. I'm in my 50s now and I realize it'll probably never happen but, hey, I buy powerball tickets so you never know. Somebody's got to get their dream.

[ileus]

51. let the neighborhood find out you have pain meds...

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

52. why didn't i think of that ;) n/t