Permanent protective order failed to protect, defensive gunfire succeeded.

[GreenStormCloud]

http://newsok.com/eucha-man-shoots-neighbor-trying-to-kick-down-his-door/article/3727020

Happened in Oklahoma

JAY — A Eucha man called 911 to report he had shot a neighbor who was trying to kick down his door, Delaware County Sheriff Harlan Moore said Friday.

Carl Hughes, 59, was found lying in the caller's yard about 5:15 p.m. Thursday with gunshot wounds to his left arm and two small punctures to the abdomen, Moore said.

The sheriff said Hughes was intoxicated and uncooperative and threatened law enforcement officers when they tried to provide medical treatment. Hughes was flown by helicopter to a Joplin hospital.

Moore said no arrests have been made and the shooting has been classified as self-defense.

SNIP

Court records show Edwards has a permanent protective order against Hughes. Hughes has been charged three times with violating the protective order and twice for planning or threatening to perform an act of violence, court records show.

In March, Hughes pleaded guilty to all the charges and received a one-year suspended sentence, records show. He was ordered to have no contact with Edwards.

Protective orders are just paper, they need something to give them weight. In this case a few bullets provided that weight.

[jenw2]

1. If protective orders had more teeth

this wouldn't have happened. You're trying to solve the problem of violence with more violence.

[glacierbay]

2. How?

A protective order is nothing more than a piece of paper, it won't protect you against someone who is determined to harm you.
I've seen first hand how well protective orders work, they don't. When I respond to a report of a DV incident, I tell the victim to obtain an order of protection while at the same time I tell the victim that it won't physically protect and that they may want to strongly consider obtaining a gun and a CC permit to at least have a fighting chance if the worse happens.

The one incident that still haunts me to this day is one where we were dispatched to a report of a man at the home of his estranged wife who had an order of protection against him, when we arrived, the wife and 5 yo daughter were stabbed to death and he had cut his own throat and was bleeding out. She didn't have any way to protect herself as she didn't have a gun.
With a gun, at least she and her daughter would have had a fighting chance.

[oneshooter]

3. What changes in the laws, to give more teeth to a PO, would you support

[PavePusher]

4. Please provide your suggestions. What "teeth" do you propose?

P.S. What do you suggest someone do when violence is being done to them? What will stop the attack other than violent resistance?

[oneshooter]

12. ???

[gejohnston]

13. you just said "had more teeth" which means what?

Make it a felony to violate the RO?

[Decoy of Fenris]

14. You haven't proposed anything.

You made a statement, then offered no solution or implementation, nor even supported your claim of "Teeth" resulting in increased personal security in situations like this. Then, you called someone a liar when they called you on your lack of the above. Can you clarify your position, preferably with descriptions beyond "If X happened, Y wouldn't happen"?

[PavePusher]

21. Someone has departed for a crunchy pizza. n/t

[glacierbay]

22. Here's the results of the alert on his post

At Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:34 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

So you're not smart enough to understand my proposal?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=86040

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

Accusing a DU'er of lying w/o any proof.

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:48 PM, and voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: An unwarranted personal attack in addition imo.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Thank you.

Every now and then we actually win one.

[rrneck]

5. Well...

That's all I got.

[GreenStormCloud]

6. Sometimes violence IS the answer to violence.

To believe that violence is never the answer is to be a naive Pollyanna.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. What would you suggest and how would it help when a drunk lunatic is breaking down the door?

[krispos42]

8. Maybe if the protective order...

...had been wrapped around a large rock? Glued to a baseball bat? Etched into the blade of a machete?



The problem of individual offensive violence can often only be stopped by a greater application of individual defensive violence. I suppose capitulation and surrender and pleas for mercy can stop it to, but often times only when the attacker gets a muscle cramp.

[TPaine7]

9. "You're trying to solve the problem of violence with more violence."

So is everyone who calls the police, except they're outsourcing the violence.

Police bring violence, or the threat of violence, to every confrontation. They use violence against violence daily.

[Remmah2]

16. My son calls that violence by proxy.

Only if they get there in time.

[4th law of robotics]

18. I expect the police to show up with some comfy chairs and a nice chamomile tea

that way we can all sit down in a relaxing environment and discuss what's wrong. Maybe we can convince the murderer/rapist/burglar to change his/her life and become a dental assistant or something.

What do you expect when you call the cops?

[Remmah2]

15. Teeth can be used for violence.

nt

[4th law of robotics]

17. Elaborate.

[Servius Valerius]

10. Yup.

I lean progressive on a lot of things... but concealed carry needs protection and even encouragement. The more trained, responsible individuals that are comfortable using minimum necessary force to resolve situations, the safer we all are.

That said, non-violence training can help practitioners defuse situations that might've evolved into violence, and those who make peace a practice can create some powerful narratives. Quakers are notably skilled at this.

[4th law of robotics]

19. I'd say maximizing the equality of the individual

regardless of race, gender, status, etc *is* a progressive ideal.

Keeping the weak and defenseless weak and defenseless by limiting protection to the wealthy is not a progressive notion.

[GreenStormCloud]

20. How do you reason with thugs that are about to beat you up for kicks?