Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumDA: Bicyclist must apologize in GJHS gun incident
An investigation showed the man holds a valid Colorado concealed-weapons permit, while he told officers he was lawfully concealing his .45 caliber handgun, which was holstered on his hip, Hautzinger said. The man told officers he tucked his T-shirt inside his waistband, exposing the weapon, at some point during his ride on Aug. 29, Hautzinger said.
He said the (guns) hammer was poking him in the side, he said.
The handgun was exposed as he was riding on the sidewalk parallel to the school along Fifth Street, passing a group of students who appeared to him to be doing gymnastics in the grass. Several were scared and alerted staff, who called 911.
http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/articles/da-bicyclist-must-apologize-in-gjhs-gun-incident/
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Reasonable_Argument
(881 posts)"I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you've raised your children so poorly that they cower at the sight of a man riding a bicycle carrying a gun in a holster. I'm sorry, that you haven't raised your children to respect and appreciate our constitutional rights. I'm also very sorry to my fellow countrymen that you and someday your children will probably vote."
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)or anything. No reason to be concerned if you see a creepy old guy riding a bicycle with a gun poking off his hip.
I don't believe the guy broke any laws, or that he should be made to apologize, but claiming folks weren't justified to be concerned about a guy riding near a school with a gun is ridiculous.
Assume for a moment that this was some whacko. People saw him riding around the school and knew he was armed, yet said nothing. Just a law-abiding citizen riding around with his legal gun. Somehow, I don't think you would be terribly happy if your child wound up dead because no one bothered to call the police on the guy.
Reasonable_Argument
(881 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)most crazies who go on rampages don't necessarily worry about such thing.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)I ride open carry here all the time, have to pass several schools on many of my routes. Never had any problems, as it should be.
But anti's say we are the paranoid ones... sheesh.
NO ONE SHOULD EVER HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR NOT COMMITING A CRIMINAL OR HARMFUL ACT.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)riding around a school, I am calling the police. Better safe than sorry.
Also, you will please note that I agreed with you that he should not be charged with a crime. As to an apology, that's up to him, but again, it cannot be compelled.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)else carry one if you are not afraid some bad guy wants to shoot you?
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)and then your evidence for doing so.
Otherwise, run along, adults are talking here.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)so no, we've never had a shooting there.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)If anyone needs to learn about civility it is gun owners who don't give a shit about how anyone else feels. That is anti social behavior that needs some kind of attention.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Perhaps you could point it out to us?
BTW, a majority of voters in California felt that same-sex marriage is wrong (Proposition 8). How much deference is due their feelings?
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)about others using the Constitution to make your divisions for you. Don't think because there is a right you have to forget about how others feel unless you are wanting to be anti social.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)you need a gun to take a fucking bike ride. Hypothetically of course.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)There are also other creatures called 'muggers', as well
Could be the bicyclist chose not to carry a can of beans for protection. Or maybe they just wanted to carry a gun, who knows? It's not as if concealed weapons permit holders are especially dangerous.
Anyway, it's NOYFB why he did so, and calling him a coward presumes you have the ability to read minds from a distance. Unless you were a member of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Earth_Battalion
,I rather doubt you do....
frylock
(34,825 posts)i also see "rattlesnakes" and "deer" on my rides. never once have i felt compelled to carry a gun on a bike ride out of fear of these animals.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... agree on common sense laws to prevent the public from being subjected to ugly
After all ... how much ugly does anyone really need?
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... I don't understand all the legal distinction between open and concealed carry.
The decision to open or conceal carry is a tactical one -- they both have situational advantages and disadvantages. But, if it's legal for you to carry then how can it be legal to carry concealed and illegal to carry open? Carry is carry.
Longarms MUST be carried open for practical reasons (not counting breakdowns in violin cases) so it's not like it's being done so as not to subject the sensitive public from having the "vapours" at the site of a big, ol' scary gun, is it?
Reasonable_Argument
(881 posts)In practice there's a huge difference. Even in a rural area like this you can expect a few "man with a gun" calls unless you're in a hunting area, farm, or near a range where it's common to see people with firearms on them.
ileus
(15,396 posts)What other rights would they like to keep the man from exercising?
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)There is no way for the public at large to know why someone is carrying a gun. They could be an honest citizen, or the next school shooter.
The safe thing to do is call the police and let them sort it out. This wastes police resources.
If you want to lawfully carry a concealed weapon, then that means concealed.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... make open carry so ubiquitous that people stop wetting themselves at the very sight of a firearm.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Unless the United States turns into Somalia, you are never going to have a large percentage of the population that is going to bother with the trouble of carrying a gun. Especially if crime rates continue to decline. More and more people will consider it's not worth the risk and inconvenience to carry, concealed or otherwise.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Not unless we <ahem> ignore the nay-sayers.
Being publically GLBT was never going to happen either.
Oh look, it did....
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)There is a difference from publicly being who you were born to be and a voluntary choice to carry a firearm.
Like I said, unless the US becomes Somalia, I just don't see a large percentage of the population feeling the need to carry a firearm.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)And it shouldn't matter to anyone else as long as I am causing no harm to others.
If the "delicate flowers" object, they can self-fertilize.
Seriously, you are buying into the same meme that said various sexualities should stay concealed, that various skin colors should remain meek and in the back of public facilities, that people with dissenting opinions should remain mute.
It's all the same thing. SUPPRESSION of "The Other". Think about that.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)I'm not going to continue a debate where you are equating your natural born condition with the choice of carrying a firearm.
I totally support concealed carry. I do not support open carry. Open carry causes more problems than it solves, and all of those problems it causes are solved by carrying concealed.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)That is also an inate, natural born condition. And it shouldn't be any more subject to discrimination than any other human feature.
I am very glad you have an opinion, for the record, I just think it's not very well thought through, and you are using it to ignore the plain parallels to other human conditions.
Have a good day, weather's fantastic here in Tucson today!
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... the vast majority of people don't carry -- only the thugs from the klans are allowed weapons. Somalia isn't an example of private gun ownership taken to extreme ... it's exactly the opposite ... guns only in the hands of people guaranteed to do harm with them.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Unless the US becomes (insert lawless place here) most people will not feel the need to carry a firearm.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... even in the USA
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)certain people push for.
"We need to get rid of concealed carry. If you want to carry a gun do so openly so the world can see"
Ok, so we'll get rid of concealed carry and just make open carry legal everywhere.
5 minutes later . . .
"OMG! People are causing mass panic with all these openly displayed guns. This is terrorism and we must put a stop to it!"
Ok, so we'll go back to concealed . .
"NO! That's already illegal. You agreed to banning that remember?!?!?"
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Concealed carry is now nearly universal, and that is unlikely to change anytime soon. If anything, it is likely to expand.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)There is no way for the public at large to know why someone is <engaging in any lawful Constitutional activity>. They could be an honest citizen, or the next <insert boogy-man-du-jour here>.
The safe thing to do is call the police and let them sort it out. This wastes police resources.
If you want to lawfully <exercise any Right/engage in any non-harmful-to-others behavior not approved of by some social authoritarian Mrs. Grundy>, keep it concealed.
I trust that my point is clear?
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)I don't think anyone is going to be alarmed by free speech or voting or many other lawful Constitutional activities, as there is little chance of bodily harm from them.
The second amendment is different from all the other Constitutional rights because it is the only one specifically about killing to protect freedom.
People who carry guns are carrying them in case they need to kill someone. The trick is knowing whether they are good or bad people, and there is no way to know by just seeing someone with a gun.
Open carry causes more problems than it solves, and those problems are solved by carrying concealed.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)See #29. Suppression is an ugly, vile thing.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Yes, voting can kill, speech can kill, but none directly.
No one is going to spot a voter and think, "Oh my god, they are out to kill someone!"
No one is going to spot a speaker and think, "Holy shit, those words are going to kill someone!"
Are there exceptions? Of course. Not many.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)No one is going to spot a speaker and think, "Holy shit, those words are going to kill someone!"
We say that about republican ideals here all the time...
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)attempt to shoot you and you think you can shoot them first.
What else is there to know?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)And what are the licensing requirements to pratice it in California?
Seriously, it always amuses to read the claims of those who 'know' the innermost thoughts of those they do not know and have never met.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)gunner ranting about needing to be able to protect yourself.
ileus
(15,396 posts)What kind of country would require someone to apologize for riding a bike, while letting people in SUV's have a free pass?
sylvi
(813 posts)Maybe for kids, but for a 65 year old man? Come on. How sincere can it be if it's forced, and if it's not sincere what's the point?
I think I would have taken my chances at trial. Sixty-five. Clean record. No one harmed. Class 6 offense. A temperate judge would give a stern warning and suspend any sentence, in a just world. Of course, that just world isn't guaranteed.