Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumMan killed in Rite-Aid shooting had history of conflict
To Ramon Colorado's family, he was a loving husband and father, politically outspoken and passionate about his beliefs.
"He kept snacks in the house for all the kids in the neighborhood," his sister Bonita Houmita of Chesapeake said.
To others, he was a frightening threat.
Colorado, 42, died in an Aug. 16 shootout in a Rite Aid on Tidewater Drive that police said started as a dispute over a place in line.
Documents spanning four years and recent interviews show he had been banned from the Norfolk Department of Development, PETA and all Virginia Beach school property. The Threat Assessment Team at Eastern Virginia Medical School reviewed his social media postings following a series of incidents that struck fear in others or led them to question his sanity. One incident led to a criminal charge: A student at EVMS went to a magistrate to report that Colorado had harassed her online with sexual vulgarities.
The day after the Rite Aid shooting, police announced that Bernell Benn, 42, was being charged with second-degree murder. Police said Benn shot Colorado, who returned fire and collapsed. Surveillance video from inside the store is part of the investigation and has not been made public.
Benn maintains that he fired in self-defense after Colorado pepper-sprayed him near the pharmacy and followed him through the store saying, "I've got more for you, bro." Benn, who had no criminal record, remains in Norfolk City Jail without bond. A judge is expected to rule on a bond appeal this week.
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/10/man-killed-riteaid-shooting-had-history-conflict
I'm just posting this here because no one else is talking about it...If Benn gets charged, I'm interested to see if the same crowd dumping cash into George Zimmerman's defense send Benn even a penny...
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)but I'm guessing Benn didn't get the same DA got a woman 20 years for firing a warning shot over her abusive husbands head. George got that DA.
petronius
(26,602 posts)form an opinion without the video and witness descriptions, but if what's in the article is complete and accurate (pepper spray + following + threats) I can easily believe that Benn may have been in reasonable fear. Especially if it became evident that Colorado was armed. I'm surprised that he was arrested so quickly and held so long, unless there's more to the story...
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)bongbong
(5,436 posts)I wanna be able to Stand My Ground when somebody cuts in line. Now you know why Delicate Flowers love guns so much. Those line-cutters are DANGEROUS!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)after being hit with pepper spray, that is hardly SYG as someone with a clue would understand it.
Reasonable_Argument
(881 posts)I'd save the effort. Somebody apparently feels they're not getting enough attention today so they're posting in every thread. When I read his posts I always picture the toddler who is standing on a chair screaming because mommy and daddy are ignoring him.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)Oh, the irony. Delicate Flowers alert on any post that scares them, but then they feel free to post hate like this.
Don't worry Flower, I won't alert on you. I'm tougher than the typical Delicate Flower.
Reasonable_Argument
(881 posts)Just giving my opinion after reading your posts for a while
bongbong
(5,436 posts)And I love all the Delicate Flowers! I'm always looking for ways to lessen the bone-chilling fear they have for the world outside their front doors.
If I got hit with pepper spray while retreating, I would speed up my retreat! That's what any sane person would do.
It is, by any definition of "sanity", a Stand Your Ground incident.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)perhaps since you lack the historical knowledge and intellect to grasp the fact that sometimes people who call themselves progressives cling to regressive policies because the implications can conflict with their ideology. Since SYG started in US common law during the Progressive era.................................
> perhaps he was cornered,
Well, then that 'ol pepper spray might KILL you! Better shoot back!
Must be a terrible store design if the checkout line allows you to get "cornered". What a laugh your "perhaps" is.
> perhaps since you lack the historical knowledge and intellect to grasp the fact that sometimes people who call themselves progressives cling to regressive policies because the implications can conflict with their ideology.
Exactly what I was thinking about Delicate Flowers!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)BTW, California and the federal level has had SYG since 1895, Illinois since 1961.
> you assume a lot
Oh, yeah, that's right I assumed he got cornered - in a checkout line.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)No one knows how people will respond when faced with violence. Running away is a perfectly valid response to violence. I fully support your decision to run away when faced with violence.
But what Stand Your Ground laws say is that if you are in a place where you have every right to be, you don't have to run away from violence if you don't want to.
No one should be expected to stand up to bad people. But when good people do stand up to bad people, we should cheer for them rather than denigrate them as being insane.
From the article, it is not yet clear what the chain of events was. But it sounds like after an argument about Colorado cutting in line, Benn was sprayed with pepper spray, which could constitute an assault. If so, Benn would be justified in standing his ground and Colorado would not be since he instigated the confrontation by spraying Benn with pepper spray.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)> But what Stand Your Ground laws say is that if you are in a place where you have every right to be, you don't have to run away from violence if you don't want to.
Well, that's the Rambo mentality for you. Judge jury & executioner. Instead of running away, prove you're tougher than the other guy.
Since it's a proven fact that having a gun increases the likelihood of a person dying because of guns, I'll stay safer than the Delicate Flowers and avoid them.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Self-defense is not about proving anything, and you don't have to be Rambo to do it.
Listen to this woman on the phone with 911 as she shoots a home invader:
Does she sound like Rambo to you? Does it sound like she was out to prove how tough she was when she says, "Oh dear God I think I've killed him"?
When good people stand up to bad people it doesn't mean that they had a hero complex. It just means they were good people at the wrong time at the wrong place who made a decision to stand up to the bad people.
Not everyone has it in them to do that, and that is fine. But we should not denigrate people who do and call them Rambos who just want to prove how tough they are. They deserve our respect.
Since it's a proven fact that having a gun increases the likelihood of a person dying because of guns, I'll stay safer than the Delicate Flowers and avoid them.
And I respect your choice to do that. Odds are you will never be a victim of violent crime, and if you are, I hope you have the physical ability to run, submit, or run away.
I hope you respect the choices of other people to accept the risk and responsibilities of owning firearms so that we have another choice besides relying on our physical abilities in the face of violence.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)go fertilize yourself.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)the shooter was retreating after being hit with pepper spray, that is hardly SYG as someone with a clue would understand it.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)> the shooter was retreating after being hit with pepper spray, that is hardly SYG as someone with a clue would understand it.
So the guy couldn't keep running away? How far do you think the guy with the pepper spray would follow him? 10 feet? 1000 feet? 10 miles? Would the pepper sprayer "reload" after he ran out? These are the kinds of things that show it is an SYG situation, as anybody with a clue would understand it.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)"No charges were brought. A judge revoked his concealed-handgun permit, citing a voluntary mental health commitment order in Chesapeake General District Court."
While Virginia took a hit after the Virginia Tech killings for not forwarding records of adjudicated mental incompetence findings up the chain fast enough, IIRC the state's performance was second only to California, which has a much larger population. In this case, through proper legal channels, Colorado had his CCW revoked. He was carrying illegally.
Benn, on the other hand, was carrying legally and had/has no criminal record. I'll wait for details, but Benn seems to be getting a raw deal.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)There are important details currently missing that the yet-to-be-released tape may reveal, most importantly, how the argument over the line-cutting evolved.
But from the article, it appears that Colorado cut in line, Benn called him out on it, and then Colorado sprayed Benn with pepper spray. This could constitute assault and if so, Benn could be justified in defending himself with a firearm under SYG laws and Colorado would not, since he instigated the assault.
I don't know how Virginia's SYG laws are worded, but in Alabama you can't start a fight and then claim self-defense with a deadly weapon.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)you have to provide something more substantial than that.
petronius
(26,602 posts)Although Colorado was apparently carrying (and used) a firearm despite a revoked CCW.
It's an interesting article in a way - there are so many red flags with Colorado, but none of them legally rose to the level of making him a disqualified person. Much as I oppose the notion of restricting RKBA, it's worth a discussion whether people in Colorado's category could/should be excluded.
On the other hand, if the shooting was in fact unjustified, this is an epic example of victim-blaming...