Group Attempting to 3D Print a Gun Somehow Surprised When Their Printer is Confiscated

[SecularMotion]

It’s hard to imagine that a group that’s trying to build a fully-functional weapon via 3D printing and then distribute those schematics would be surprised to find themselves constantly facing roadblocks, and yet the Wiki Weapons Project certainly appears to be genuinely shocked that the company that leased them a 3D printer has now confiscated it. Officially, Stratasys stated “It is the policy of Stratasys not to knowingly allow its printers to be used for illegal purposes.” Then they sent people to grab the device.

http://www.geekosystem.com/3d-gun-confiscated/

[holdencaufield]

1. I guess that means ...

... no one will ever try and make a firearm with 3D manufacturing technology again.

That's a weight off my mind.

[slackmaster]

2. There is no law against an individual occasionally building a non-NFA firearm for personal use

No license or payment of tax is required. Nor is there any law prohibiting dissemination of information or tools to facilitate people exercising their right to build their own non-NFA weapons.

I have built a few of my own. I've downloaded blueprints from the Web, and even purchased partly finished metal billets and castings by mail order. All perfectly legal.

[Eleanors38]

3. Stratasys? I'll make note of that when I finish my...

Nerve gas project.

[ohiosmith]

10. This post was alerted on. The jury voted 5/1 to let it stand.

At Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:09 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Stratasys? I'll make note of that when I finish my...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=77783

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Threatening to nerve-gas Stratasys???

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:20 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I took in the same text as post#1 as in pure SARCASM and Humor obviously .
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's clearly a joke, and not aimed at Stratasys.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: Poster must have forgotten sarcasm thingie.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: And,.....the poster no doubt is also developing sharks with laser beams on their heads!

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[ileus]

12. That's "freaking lazer beams"

[ohiosmith]

14. Mea culpa!

[Clames]

4. No big loss.

The technology is getting cheaper with every passing day. Stratasys just proved its ignorance and created a gap for another company to jump in.

[Reasonable_Argument]

5. First

What they were doing wasn't illegal, the wiki weapons project is within existing law. Second, the company has the right to pull the lease for the machines but it will do little to keep the project from moving forward. They just were worried about bad PR from...well... people like you.

[GreenStormCloud]

6. Stratasys is NOT the only company that rents 3-D printers

Last edited Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:11 PM - Edit history (1)

They will simply go to another source that will be happy to have a new customer.

[bongbong]

7. I Needa Gun!

I gotta get a gun! I'll do anything! I'm getting weak from not having food! I can't go to the supermarket without a gun! It's too DANGEROUS!!!!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. in case you wnat to discuss

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1240&pid=152166

[bongbong]

13. That's HILARIOUS

The Delicate Flowers are being their usual super-sensitive (but super-tough!) selves.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. If you can talk about Delicate Flowers in here why was my thread locked?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117274346

confused.

Krispos - - - can you explain this discrepancy ?

Thank you.

[bongbong]

17. LOL

> Krispos - - - can you explain this discrepancy ?

Try responding to one of his posts if you don't know how to email other DUers. I'm not Krispos.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. I am sure that Krispos will be reading this thread and the one in Meta.

[krispos42]

33. I have jurisdiction only over original posts

All I can do with replies is alert on them.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

53. Thank you for handling the problem

[holdencaufield]

19. Why do you even bother?

"A troll asks questions not for the purpose of getting a legitimate answer but for other purposes i.e. to stir up controversy, to obtain sexual gratification, to spread hate, etc. There are many types of trolls."



So, every time you engage him, you are, in essence, having sex with him. Think about that the next time you're tempted to throw him a bone.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. in order to expose the Troll one must engage the Troll.

It is not easy to get rid of this type of Troll. Remember the Iverglas.

I am just taking a hit for the team

[holdencaufield]

21. Ew!

That's the last person on Earth I'd want to see "exposed"

Keeping behind closed doors, please.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. way to show your appreciation, for all I do for the team

[holdencaufield]

23. I'm just saying --

-- I'm glad you're keeping it off the streets (the children and house pets in my neighbourhood are now much more safe)

But, I'm of the opinion that if you didn't engage it, it would get bored and go away looking for attention elsewhere.

[4th law of robotics]

26. Well that does explain all the smilies.

[holdencaufield]

27. A nut-busted troll ...

... is a happy troll

[dmallind]

8. Perhaps I'm behind on SLA technology

But the ones with which I am familiar could no more make something capable of withstanding the pressure of even a low powered round than they could make a staircase to Mars. Unless 3d printers have got a hell of a lot better in the last 2 years, anyone using a gun made by one is destined to be called "Lefty" for the rest of their life.

[krispos42]

9. I imagine that the 3D printer would be used to make all the intricate parts of the trigger mechanism

Not much load there, but the shapes can be complex. The other stuff can just be off-the-rack chunks of steel.

[ret5hd]

28. so you think you can buy a piece of steel "off the rack" that you can use for a barrel?

[Glaug-Eldare]

29. Yeah...?

How do you think present home manufacturers do it? They're not smelting their own

[ret5hd]

30. OH! You mean buy a piece of steel and machine it into a gun barrel

Well, hell yeah!...if you buy several thousand dollars of specialized equipment! And have several years of experience!

signed,
a machinist of over 30 yrs

[PavePusher]

38. Machine your own? Why, when there are litterally dozens of manufacturers out there......

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=1&cp=10&gs_id=u&xhr=t&q=rifle+barrels&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&rlz=1R2ADRA_enUS432&oq=rifle+barr&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=243757dd2ec462e8&biw=1280&bih=579

"off the rack" has a little more depth to it in the information age.

[ret5hd]

43. Well, that kinda takes away from the DIY experience, doesn't it?

I mean, I guess you could buy an entire gun piece by piece and simply assemble it yourself.

[jeepnstein]

48. I know lots of guys who do it that way.

There's no law against making one for your personal use. What you can't do is ever try to sell the thing. Some rifles, like AK clones, are really pretty easy to build. Doing the whole thing by scratch would be a huge undertaking and well beyond the skill level of most mere mortals. I knew a guy who made his own black powder barrels and it was an extremely difficult process. Then again, I knew a guy who made a cannon out of a train axle once. Buying parts is legal, except for something like a finished part that requires a serial number to be sold.

[holdencaufield]

39. You're wrong -- of course

The following standard piping -- which you can buy from any steel supplier in quantity -- only need to be chambered using a hand reaming tool (under $50 online) to make them into serviceable barrels. Of course, these are un-rifled barrels, but if you're building a shotgun or an automatic CQB weapon -- that doesn't make any difference.

22 Rimfire 9.53 x 2.03 SMT

.32 ACP 14.29 x 3.25 SMT

.38/.357 15.88 x 3.25 SMT/SHT

9mm/.380 14.29 x 2.64 SMT

.44/.410 20.64 x 4.88 SMT

.45 ACP 17.46 x 2.95 SHT

12 Gauge 26.99 x 4.06 SMT

[Trunk Monkey]

45. Or if you happen to work in any of several machine shops that allow their employees

to work on personal projects in their off time.

we're not talking high end uber accurate precision target rifles It'w wouldn't be all that hard to turn out an M3 or a sten

[krispos42]

31. Sure. At least for an unrifled barrel with handgun ammunition

Obviously, you'd need a lathe to drill and ream the barrel to the correct diameter, but that's a pretty common item. And for a handgun you wouldn't even need a big one.

Not sure how you'd rifle a barrel, but I imagine it could be done.

[ret5hd]

32. rifling a barrel requires specialized equipment.

so you got this stuff hangin' round your garage?

http://bettincustomguns.com/Technical%20Information/Barrel%20rifling%20techniques.htm

[krispos42]

34. I know, it's not easy

Which is why a smoothbore handgun is the likely goal of such an endeavor. Assuming "off the shelf" barrels from mail order are not available.

[ret5hd]

35. And don't forget, mfg'ing gun (smooth bored or rifled) is completely legal.

[holdencaufield]

40. There is no relationship between ...

... legal and possible.

That is why banning guns will never remove guns from the hands of those who want them for illegal purposes.

[Glaug-Eldare]

42. That's correct, under federal law. n/t

[slackmaster]

49. Smooth-bore handguns are NFA items

Because they are the equivalent of short-barrelled shotguns.

[holdencaufield]

41. The following weapon

A Luty 9mm SMG with a 600RPM cyclical rate and 18 round magazine was made with off-the-shelf steel piping and tubing and no tool more complex than a drill press (no lathing required)



In the build up to the 1948 Israeli War of Independence, Jews (who were legally forbidden from owning weapons or ammo in Palestine) manufactured STEN guns by the hundreds in underground workshops using plumbing parts. The original STEN gun was designed so it could be built with all the tools on hand in a normal bicycle shop.

[Trunk Monkey]

46. why in the HELL

would you put an 18 round maGAZINE ON A 600 rpm gun?

C'mon man get me a 30 rounder at least

[holdencaufield]

51. Simplicity ...

The author of the book explains that these weapons are designed to be a simple as possible and a single stack 18 round mag is easier to build and less likely to jam than the double stack 32 round magazine used the MP-40 (on which this weapons was based).

Every piece of this weapons can be made at home using common workshop tools or purchased over the counter at a hardware store. The bolt, for example, instead of being lathed from stock steel is made from collar rings that have been tapped for additional screws to hold them in place. Even the springs are hand wound on a home fabricated mandrel from common steel wire.

If you think about it -- it's a piece of engineering beauty.

[PavePusher]

15. And this technology will not remain static.

No tech ever does.

[X_Digger]

25. I could see sintered pieces being produced..

Use the 3d printer to make sintering molds for pieces that have to be made of metal.

Pop it in the microwave oven filled with powdered metal, et voilà.

[oneshooter]

36. It could also be used to produce molds for the "lost wax" method.

[ret5hd]

37. how many rounds do you think a "molded" gun barrel would last?

on edit: i think your username will give you a hint.

[Trunk Monkey]

47. One shot would be enough to put a round in the head of someone with a real gun

and take theirs. ever heard of the Liberator pistol?

edited misspelled word in subject box.

[oneshooter]

54. I wasn't refering to the barrel, but to ALL of the other parts.

They can be produced using the lost wax method. In fact Strum Ruger is a leader in this technology.

[aikoaiko]

44. Their short-term goal is probably AR-15 receivers completed with nonregulated parts.

Last edited Tue Oct 9, 2012, 09:21 AM - Edit history (2)

The receiver of an AR-15, the part that is the BATFE controlled part, doesn't have to withstand very much force or pressure. They can be made out of plastic. All the force is really in the barrel, bolt, and upper receiver which are nonregulated.

I have a couple of friends who built light weight ARs with Cavalry Arms plastic receivers/stocks when they were available and then run fine.

Old advertisement.
[IMG][/IMG]

[4th law of robotics]

50. If this becomes commonplace would you predict that blood will run in the streets?

Please please please . . .

[Remmah2]

52. Maybe mass papercuts?

[img][/img]

[Francis Marion]

55. Sauruman's Workshop- AAAAHH!

Stratasys technology isn't magic, it's melted plastic.

So the company took back their plastic part making machine. Big deal; write off that vendor and find somebody else with a backbone.

I can see some useful parts being made here, but not a proper firearm using only Stratasys printer input. The job needs much stronger materials than Stratasys offers, like good old steel.

It's not enough to replicate a steel design in plastic. A design must be thoroughly suitable for its intended application- its resulting form, materials, conditioning, etc.

But anyway, what's it to you or me if they tackle this project? The market will reward them or ignore them, and it's of little concern to us outside the circle of shareholders- unless you'd like perhaps to be America's Engineering Design Zampolit? That way only nice projects, and of course you can define 'nice,' would fund and mature. All those bad projects you can simply cancel, edit, or delay.

Hey, thanks a lot for doing that. Thanks for being The Decider.