Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumNYT: Importing Russia’s Top Gun
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/business/a-kalashnikov-factory-in-russia-survives-on-sales-to-us-gun-owners.html?_r=2&pagewanted=allIZHEVSK, Russia The nickname of this town, home of the factory that makes Kalashnikov rifles, is the Armory of Russia. Over the years, it has armed a good number of other countries, too, as the lathes and presses of the Izhevsk Machine Works clanged around the clock to forge AK-47s and similar guns for insurgents and armies around the world.
Multimedia
But these days, many of Izhevsks weapons are headed somewhere else: the United States.
(snip)
Selling Saigas in the United States is integral to the enterprises evolving business model of making single-shot civilian guns to occupy workers and equipment in between government orders for fully automatic assault rifles. About 70 percent of the factorys output is now civilian rifles, up from 50 percent two years ago. Of the civilian arms, about 40 percent are exported to the United States.
That means American consumers are now buying about the same number of Kalashnikov-style weapons from Izhmash as the Russian army and police.
(emphasis added, more at link)
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My own commentary:
Kalashnikovs are fascinating pieces of Cold War history, and reliable semi-automatic firearms to boot. Although the prices have skyrocketed over the past decade, they still can be had at reasonable costs given their ruggedness and versatility. I own several Saiga models, and favor their continued importation and legal ownership by responsible citizens in this country. The fact that millions of these rifles and shotguns are already owned by Americans should be fact enough that the gun control horse has bolted, and a renewed Assault Weapons (sic) Ban is a non-starter of a policy.
-app
Reasonable_Argument
(881 posts)But I've heard Saigas have a feed problem unless smoothed out by a gunsmith. Any truth to it?
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)In order to be legally imported, Saigas arrive in this country with a number of 'neutered' features, including lacking a bullet guide in front of where the magazine mates to the gun. Saiga magazines have an internal bullet guide, but most buyers of 7.62x39 Saigas will want to use traditional AK magazines, which are cheap, plentiful, higher-capacity, and exceptionally rugged. If you try to use an AK mag in an unconverted Saiga, the rounds may not chamber properly.
There is a whole industry out there in the gun world based around converting Saiga rifles from their ridiculous US-importable configuration to the more traditional and reliable Kalashnikov look and function. The basics of this conversion involve adding a bullet guide, swapping out the buttstock (Saigas arrive with a monte-carlo style abomination), moving the trigger group forward, adding a pistol group, and adding some US-made parts to comply with the 922-r law that governs imported semi-automatics.
-app
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)Anyone less familiar with firearms discussion should note that when I mention "Saiga Conversions," I am referring to bringing the Saiga rifle to its full potential as a semi-automatic Kalashnikov-pattern rifle: an entirely legal process as long as the 922-r rules about requisite US parts are followed. I am NOT talking about making a machine gun out of it, which is to my knowledge, impossible, given the design of the Saiga receiver and US-made trigger parts that are available. And even if a such a full-auto conversion was possible, it would be highly-illegal; I have NEVER met anyone who has even discussed doing that, nor have I ever seen a full-auto AK in person, legal or otherwise.
In general, people who say that semi-auto AK's in the US can be converted to full-auto are ignorant. My own knowledge of the firearm is limited, but from what I know, one would have to essentially rebuild the rifle, using a receiver (the heart of the rifle) of one's own manufacture, plus the tools to press-in the barrel, headspace the bolt, etc. Not something I could do in my workshop, nor do I have any desire to.
-app
ileus
(15,396 posts)when they were 350 bucks or so....
My boss has the 308 that's never been fired, but he won't part with it for nothing.
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)The 'good old days' of sub-$400 AK pattern rifles are over, but these can be considered the 'good new days' of a wide variety of Kalashnikov-pattern rifles being legally-imported and available. Using .223 rifles as an example, you can presently purchase Bulgarian models such as the SLR-106U (actually a krinkov-based pistol) or the SLR-106-31 (a folding stocked rifle), a Polish Archer rifle, the 223 Saiga, or the 223 VEPR, produced by Russia's other AK factory Molot. Prices on these models range from $500 to $1000+, with the lower-costs models requiring conversion to achieve full functionality.
If I were not saving up for a farm purchase, an Arsenal 106 CR or Polish Archer would be high on my list. While these are not as cheap as the .223 Saigas, they are as close to current military-issue rifles as one can purchase in this caliber. I have shot a version of the SLR 106, and it is a light, accurate, enjoyable, and highly-functional rifle, with readily-available, quality magazines (which are lacking for some other .223 AK models). Its folding-stock is exceptionally ergonomic.
-app
ileus
(15,396 posts)I could carry it in the Jeep on trail rides and such.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Equate
(256 posts)virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)He actually fulfills an important role down here with us "effective" activists...
He lets us know just what they are up too, and what new distortions they are unleashing on a spoon fed press corp.
It almost as good as having a fly on the Josh Sugerman's living room wall!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Got into it once with an honest to god KKK member who said he was a "civil rights activist."
virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)Although most of them are of the 7.62x54R variety.
They, are very rugged, and reliable to the extreme, like a proper rifle should be. With a very long history behind them.
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)I haven't bought anything in 7.62x54, but I've watched as the Mosin-Nagants have climbed in value and collectability.
If you have one on the MN-sniper models or even a Dragunov, you own a valuable rifle! But even the run of the mill Izhevsk M91-30's and M44's have climbed in price quite a bit lately.
Just like the Kalashnikov is a fascinating piece of Cold War history, the Mosin-Nagants are historical elements in the Soviet's role helping to defeat the Nazis in WW2.
If I had enough money to cover the farm and family needs with some left over, my firearms collection would include more of these pieces of history, plus crates and crates of surplus 7.62x54 ammo for hunting and target use.
-app
virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)I am saving up for a sniper M91 30. Their are some reproduction snipers, and I want to get one. But all this hoopla and gun control saber rattling, has me eyeing some AR15 kits and lowers. I made some very wise investments back in the early 1990's when gun control was vogue. And I have been richly rewarded with high returns on investment. Much better than the stock market!
Yes, they are increasing in value, I bought most of mine when they where $79 retail. I saw a well worn M44 in a shop today priced at almost $200.
EDIT, I forgot, I also have an early m91 Izhevsk Rifle, In the Mosin Nagant line, I also have Tula, and Finland represented!