If gun laws are to blame, then homicide rates ought to be fairly uniform within a state

[Kaleva]

Michigan, by law, prohibits local jurisdictions from implementing tougher restrictions on guns then what the state itself mandates. So the gun laws in Detroit and Flint are the same as they are in Marquette and Grand Rapids but Detroit and Flint, while they account for less then 10% of the state's population, account for over 70% of the state's homicides. Most of Michigan has a homicide rate comparable to that of Canada.

[Hoyt]

1. Try to look at it as "guns are part of mix," not that guns are the only issue.

Guns are a factor in much of what goes on today. There are other factors, but only a fool could ignore the fact that our views on guns are part of the issue.

I suspect that without a gun, Zimmerman would have sat in his car, a frustrated police wannabe. Wade Page would have stayed home fondling his swastikas and waving a confederate flag.

[atreides1]

2. Maybe

Or maybe they would have purchased a weapon illegally.

[twizzler]

3. Or, just to add,

used an explosive device, gasoline and a match, a vehicle.
In my 35 years as an LEO, I saw many many ways someone was killed.

[Hoyt]

4. What's your solution? Do nothing for another decade and let another 100 million guns pollute society

I think that is the approach of the NRA, other right wing groups, and the gun culture.

[NewMoonTherian]

7. My solution involves preserving individual freedom of choice.

And privacy regarding those choices.

I want us all to work together toward measures that bring about positive change, but I refuse to entertain ideas for further gun restrictions, and you refuse to entertain any ideas except further gun restrictions, so the conversation stalls and nothing gets done.

[samsingh]

5. exactly

[zipplewrath]

6. Why?

Why "should" they be? Is there no effect of proximity or population density? How about weapon type mix within a population?

You started out with a hypothesis and did nothing to support it, merely accepted it as true.

[Kaleva]

8. Well, lets look at some figures

Detroit itself has a population density of about 993 people per square mile while the rest of Wayne County, where Detroit is located, has a population density of about 567 people per square mile.

But here are some shocking figures.

Blacks make up about 40.3 percent of the population of Wayne County and have a homicide rate of 47.1. Whites (non-Hispanic) make up about 49.8 percent of the population of Wayne County and have a homicide rate of 3.8. Hispanics and others make up about 9.9 percent of the population of Wayne County and have a homicide rate of 39.9.

The robbery rate in Detroit itself closely follows the unemployment rate. The homicide rate does too but not so closely. The anomaly in the homicide rate corresponding to the unemployment rate is that during the period of 1983 to 1987, the unemployment rate was dropping but the homicide rate went up. This was during the crack cocaine epidemic in Detroit.

[zipplewrath]

9. So economic factors dominate

Now, within areas of similar economic factors, does gun density, or gun laws, affect the outcome?

[gejohnston]

10. compare Detroit with

DC, Chicago, and USVI. Now if you compare USVI with British VI you will find that location and gun laws have no effect either way (USVI allows gun ownership, but the murders are not committed with licensed guns).
Compare USVI with Vermont and Wyoming. Or, El Paso with pretty much anyplace in North America.

[zipplewrath]

11. DC, Chicago, and Detroit

Those are widely different economic conditions. Not even sure about the economy of USVI. I'm thinking more of places that are economicly similar, but have different gun laws, or gun availability.

[gejohnston]

12. gun laws are not that relevant because

gangsters don't go to the local gun store.
USVI has a strict licensing system similar NYC, and has the worst murder rate in the US and among the worst in the world. Chicago and DC have virtual bans, what were complete bans. Detroit is whatever Michigan law is. Most of the violence are concentrated in more impoverished areas within the cities. That alone indicates poverty and wealth inequality is more relevant than gun laws. We are also talking about places that are on drug trade routes, especially USVI and neighboring Jamaica, which has a UK style gun ban but has a murder rate over ten times ours.

[Kaleva]

13. The crime rate varies within Detroit itself

I was looking at a PDF file which had a map of Detroit and which marked crime hot spots. In the write up, it said that crime was highest in sections of Detroit that had a relatively high percentage of foreclosed and and abandoned homes and commercial buildings.

Gun laws are the same throughout Michigan so that wouldn't explain the differences and I haven't seen any data which gives the gun density of any given part of Detroit or Wayne county.