At least 10 dead and 30 to 40 wounded

[MichaelHarris]

Wanna take bets on what type of weapon was used? Gotta love those "hobbyists" with their AK clones.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/07/20/arts/20reuters-usa-shooting-denver.html?_r=1&hp

[SkatmanRoth]

1. Violent movies incite people to commit assault and murder

The Batman persona is steeped in criminal activity and violence.

We need to ban violent movies.

[qanda]

2. I can imagine that those dvd's could do some serious damage

If they're thrown with enough force!

[MrDiaz]

3. lmao

we need to ban violent movies, everyday thousands of people die because of DWI's...we should ban drinking. everyday thousands of people die from car accidents...we should ban driving period (everyone can use city transportation)... people get hurt playing football, basketball, baseball, soccor, etc.... we should ban sports, people get killed from malpractice at hospitals...we should ban medical care. people die from spider bites...we should ban spiders. COME ON MAN. EVERY SINGLE THING YOU DO can potentially harm you maybe we should ban life! Maybe if everyone there had a pistol of there own, there wouldn't of been nearly as much harm done!

[Confusious]

104. Video games

Video games need to be banned too.

Along with that damn "rock and roll." it corrupts the soul and makes people swivel their hips lewdly.

[Starboard Tack]

182. How do you propose doing that?

By tearing up the First Amendment?

[SkatmanRoth]

195. First we will need a form 4473A to be filled out.

Then a person will need a Class III movie permit to watch and require a $200 Federal Tax Stamp for EACH movie watched. A complete criminal background investigation is required along with submitting a full set of fingerprints as part of the investigation permit/process. Movies can only be watched at a licensed Class III Theater or thru another process to become a Class III Home Theater yourself in order to buy and sell these movies. Becoming a Class III Home Theater however will be a much more involved process than simply watching the movie at an already established Class III Theater.

[orpupilofnature57]

252. Sorry the 1st is more important than the 2nd.

[SkatmanRoth]

262. Without the Second, the first is not worth the paper it is written on

n/t

[orpupilofnature57]

264. Are police more important than the law?

[SkatmanRoth]

265. Ordering rights by importance is like adolescents deciding which primary color is prettier.

Human rights that preceded the formation of the Government and are protected from restriction by the Constitution have no ranking to superiority. But if you feel the need to rank them to settle some imbalance in your own mind, feel free to do so.

[orpupilofnature57]

266. I have ,Talking is more important and useful

in every instanse than shooting ,there's some hyperbole for ya.

[HALO141]

267. What a quaint fantasy. n/t

[orpupilofnature57]

268. I call it reality

Last edited Tue Jul 24, 2012, 06:15 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm 54 I've hitchhiked across the country ,bought pot for years , live in a little , less than wealthy town, go to the Cape Cod where I'm usually a good mile from law enforcement in the peak of the season for years ,and have survived just fine without EVER employing a gun ,but I do need contact with people conversation and communication wise .

[krispos42]

4. And you win the award for taking advantage of a tragedy.

Congrats.

[Hoyt]

41. Exactly.

[Tejas]

50. LMAO at your schoolyard snark.

[krispos42]

63. Lame.

And fail. But nice try. Welcome to the Gungeon.

[Tejas]

98. That's what criminal-apologists do.

Well, that and chase ambulances.

[Tejas]

67. It's "inflammatory trolling", not "taking advantage", both appear to

be not only accepted but encouraged lately. Stay classy DU!

[krispos42]

168. *sigh*

Listen and listen hard.


Our NON-GUN homicide rate (about 6,000 people per year) is as high as other western European nations' TOTAL homicide rate. Maybe a touch higher.

That means that, for the 12,000 people a year murdered with a gun, there were about 11,500 or so people that had the motive and drive to kill somebody. A murderer, in other words.


If the guns dissolved into rust tonight, and IF half of the people who would normally be killed with a gun were instead killed by "other" (a completely arbitrary assumption that I pull out of my ass), then our homicide rate would still be TWICE that of low-gun European countries. Where, according to some, the people there are caged animals that would immediately begin killing each other if gun laws there were loosened.


The problem isn't the guns, it's US. Us. Our society, our economy, our education, our healthcare, our drug laws...that's the problem. And if we don't fix that, then the guns don't mean shit.

We'd save far more lives per decade legalizing pot than banning "high capacity" magazines or "assault weapons". We'd save far more lives per year with USP healthcare including mental health. And unlike guns, there's real political will to legalize pot.

[Starboard Tack]

210. You know what? I agree with almost all you say there.

The problem is US and all the things you said, except that the gun culture, which is pervasive here, is a part of it. Not the main problem, but an integral problem of a society stuck in it's adolescent stage. America, with it's obsessive dreams of wealth, freedom, opportunity, equality, righteousness and GUNS, the ultimate solution.
Pot should never have been made illegal. All informed people know that.
Using guns to act out our fantasies is beyond stupid. All informed people know that.

[Union Scribe]

5. ...and your first thought

was to run here and do some political jig. Class act, Mike.

[permatex]

11. So why is it that the anti"s always rush to

exploit a tragedy to attempt to further their agenda? Or they'll post insults like yours right here?

[permatex]

14. Assault rifles and automatic pistols

not. I'm not going to debate someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and throws about insults about legal gun owners.
Have a good day.

[Starboard Tack]

212. See, you're gonna have to do better than that.

When people ask you questions, challenging your position, you need to come back with a little substance. Taking your ball home and refusing to play isn't going to get you anywhere. Godammit, stand up for yourself man! After all, you have the permit now.

[gejohnston]

213. Why is it that the gun nuts always rush to carry out massacres?

starting off with that is like me asking "why are pot heads too stupid or apathetic about gang violence that their money fuels." is not civil discourse.

[Starboard Tack]

217. I have no idea. Did someone say "gun nuts always rush to carry out massacres"?

I see no correlation between pot and gang violence. Pot tends to mellow folk out rather than make them violent. If gangs are involved, then it isn't for the pot, but the money to be made from something controlled or prohibited.
What kind of country makes pot illegal and carrying guns around legal? Pot has never killed anyone.

[gejohnston]

219. Yes, read post 12

That is the correlation, gangs making money off of pot and other drugs. That is what I said. Most pot smokers are also apathetic and stupid about the carnage they finance. They snort their blood soaked coke and smoke their blood soaked pot and bitch about how "evil the NRA is" like the sanctimonious faux intellectuals they are.
To be honest, I don't like the drug culture. In fact, I fucking hate them. Always have, always will. That does not mean I support prohibition. In my experience, many of them acted paranoid around people who don't use. At my last posting, the wife and I did some neighborhood organizing I learned to like it even less. The local drug dealers liked ACORN as much as James O'Keefe, but they were into bombing. The local PD caught wind that my wife and a friend were targeted, the PD told AFOSI, who called me to their office. I never had a negative experiences with the gun culture.
In general, I find beer drinking rednecks a better bunch of people than most pot and coke heads. So, don't bore me with platitudes and bullshit how nice and peaceful bong owners are and how evil and racist gun owners are.
Like I said often, the average bong owner is responsible for more gun violence in US, Canada, Europe, and Mexico than the NRA or Canadian NFA fucking combined.

[gejohnston]

226. Nope

I'm against drug prohibition. You missed that part. I think they are mostly apathetic assholes, but their culture has a right to exist.
Gun prohibition does not keep them from criminals. All of the countries that have higher murder rates than we do also have very strict gun laws. Jamaica and UK prohibited guns and Jamaica still makes us look like Japan. UK saw no change.

[gejohnston]

224. If he bought them that day,

he isn't a gun nut. And yes, antis do, and they are generally less honest.

[gejohnston]

227. Oh I don't know

show one lie or example of obfuscation. You can't. Examples of emotional rants and bullshit from antis, all over the place.
Who are you to decide who is a true Democrat and who is not?

[gejohnston]

255. none of them are lies

So you picked out things that does not fit your ideology so you assumed they were lies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20822364

http://persquaremile.com/2011/04/19/the-counterintuitive-case-of-suicide-and-population-density/
http://www.garymauser.net/pdf/MauserPaper-200611.pdf

Historically, Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have remained relatively static for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined 47%.[26]
In the year 2002–2003, over 85% of firearms used to commit murder were unregistered.[27] In 1997–1999, more than 80% of the handguns confiscated were never legally purchased or registered in Australia.[28] Knives are used up to three times as often as firearms in robberies.[29] The majority of firearm-related deaths are suicides, of which many involved the use of 'hunting rifles'.[26]
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics [3], from 1985–2000, 78% of firearm deaths in Australia were suicides, and firearm suicides have fallen from about 22% of all suicides in 1992[30] to 7% of all suicides in 2005.[31] Immediately following the Buyback there was a fall in firearm suicides which was more than offset by a 10% increase in total suicides in 1997 and 1998. There were concerted efforts in suicide prevention from this time and in subsequent years the total suicide rate resumed its decline.
The number of guns stolen has fallen dramatically from an average 4,195 per year from 1994 to 2000 to 1,526 in 2006–2007. This is co-incident with a campaign by police and shooting bodies, such as the Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia’s ‘Secure Your Gun, Secure Your Sport’ drive, to encourage secure storage of rifles and shotguns (handguns were already subject to strict storage requirements). Long guns are more often stolen opportunistically in home burglaries, but few homes have handguns and a substantial proportion of stolen handguns are taken from security firms and other businesses. Only a tiny proportion, 0.06% of licensed firearms, are stolen in a given year. Only a small proportion of those firearms are recovered. Approximately 3% of these stolen weapons are later connected to an actual crime or found in the possession of a person charged with a serious offence.[32]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia#Measuring_the_effects_of_firearms_laws_in_Australia

[permatex]

214. No I don't have it yet

probably next week. You don't get to tell me who to debate and who not to.
I appreciate your concern, on second thought, no I don't.

[MicaelS]

22. If the private possesion of every gun was banned..

And every gun in private possession was rounded up and destroyed, criminal gangs would start smuggling guns into the US to feed the demand for guns by dope dealers and other criminals in this country.

And then you, and others with your mindset would still be blaming the NRA and you would be screaming "something needs to be done to get those guns off the street."

Alcohol Prohibition did not work.

Drug Prohibition has not worked.

Gun Prohibition will not work.

[permatex]

23. And don't forget anyone

with a lathe and a drillpress could make a gun. I can never seem to figure out why the banners or restrictionists think that more gun control will stop violent crime with guns. All it will do is disarm the honest lawful citizens and leave them to the tender mercies of the dirtbags in our society.

[permatex]

56. So instead of being a Keyboard commando

get out there and start a petition to repeal the 2A and then convince 2/3 of the states to repeal the the 2A, while your doing that, I'll be out there calling my congercritters to vote against repeal, I'll be writing letters, making phone calls, donating money to my Dem Sen. who is strongly pro 2A and just happens to be the Senate Majority Leader.
In other words, I will counter you at every turn, but it's your right to start that petition, so get out there and get it going,

Let us know how well it's going.

on edit: Very telling that you have not expressed any condolences to the victims or families. Instead you immediately launch an attack on gun owners.
Why is that?

[permatex]

61. Threat of the NRA?

you really think that all gun owners belong to the NRA?
The NRA has a membership of appox. 4 million while there are appox. 80 million gun owners in the country with about 300 million guns in circulation. Also, gun control org. like VPC, Brady, are begging for members and funds, why is that? Could be because support for gun bans are at an all time low in the country.
I don't belong to the NRA, haven't since the early 90"s
I tend to side with the SAF.
I do have a good life, I'm retired comfortably, I enjoy taking my firearms out to the range or desert with my wife and be both shoot them.
Matter of fact, I'm going into LV today and picking up a new rifle I ordered last week and I plan to enjoy it.
Still haven't expressed condolences for the victims yet. I think we can all see where your priorities lie.
Thanks for playing.

[permatex]

73. You have no idea why this lunatic

opened fire and killed all those people, as do none of us here.
So, are you going to get that petition going?
Hiding behind my condolences. Thats just too funny.

[permatex]

80. Bullshit

he could have just as easily have planted a bomb and caused much more carnage.

Once again, get a petition going to repeal the 2A, let us know how that works out.

[permatex]

90. Gun ownership threatened?

By who? You? Sarah Brady? Josh Sugarmann? The VPC?
Who?
Why do you always resort to the gun nuts meme?

[permatex]

94. So why is violent crime down while the sales of guns are up?

Why is Chicago and DC much more violent then say any other city of their size and yet they have almost complete bans on guns?

Why is El Paso TX, so peaceful yet there is almost 1 gun per citizen?
Why is Vermont, who has always been constitutional carry, so peaceful?

[gejohnston]

123. rural areas have higher suicide rates

That is as true in gun free UK and Japan as it is in US and Canada. Rural areas have higher rates of gun ownership in most countries yes, but suicide is independent of the means. When Canada passed their 1977 gun control law, and Australia passed their stricter laws in the 1980s, their gun suicide rate dropped slightly. Their suicide rate did not. Self hanging filled the vacuum. Violent crime with or without guns did not change.

Now if you remove suicide rates, unless we are going to talk about rope violence, the numbers in the article show a much different conclusion.

[bongbong]

198. Same lie you gun-relgionists trot out over and over

No connection, except that more guns = less safety.

[gejohnston]

102. you asked the question

about other means. As for the other, that is the source of the problem. It does not fit the Brady talking points, but tough shit.

[GreenStormCloud]

100. That horse died years ago. You can quit beating it.

The militia clause does not limit the operative clause. The right is an individual one. Your side lost.

[GreenStormCloud]

113. Your side lost.

It was ruled an individual right - twice. Your side wanted it to be a collective right for the government only. No amount of tap dancing by you will change that.

[Clames]

127. You tap dance, waltz, cha-cha, and Tango.

Anything you can to show you don't know what you're talking about when it really comes down to the brass tacks.

[GreenStormCloud]

130. By your posts you are obviously in favor of greater gun control.

I am obviously for greater gun freedom. The gun controllers held to the collective view, the gun freedom people held to the individual view. Therefore, there were two sides. In a court case there are always two sides - plaintiff and defendant. The collective side (yours) lost. You are trying to avoid admitting that your side lost, which I call tap dancing.

The reality is that there have been two SCOTUS decisions on the subject, and it was settled to be an individual right. Because of "stare decisis" it is extremely unlikely that any future court will reverse those decisions.

That is reality. Live with it.

[GreenStormCloud]

143. It is still the LAW.

You don't get to ignore laws that you don't like, or decisions that you don't like.

Your side (2A is a collective right) lost. 2A is an individual right, whether you like it or not.

[permatex]

148. If thats the best you got

then you got nutin.

[kurtzapril4]

194. Yes, your(individual) side won.

So now the rest of us are free to be picked off like sheep. Yay!

[HALO141]

134. "over the rights of people to be safe from lunatics with easy access to guns. "

What about my right to feel safe from people like you dictating policy?!? There is no such "right." Nothing - no law, no social construct, nothing - can guarantee safety or the perception of safety. Just because you desperately want something doesn't make it a "right."

Everyone wants to feel safe. People often disagree on what makes them feel safer.

[GreenStormCloud]

147. Because FBI stats show that you are safer.

If you will look at the FBI statistics on violent crime, you ARE safer than you have been in a long time. Violent crime is down to the levels of the early 1960s, from its peak in 1994. Murder is dramatically down.

During that same period, from 1994, dozens of states became shall-issue states, enacted Castle Doctrine, Civil Immunity, and Stand-Your-Ground laws. Gun sales have been high during the last 18 years too, with well over 100 million new guns having been sold during that time.

Yet, violent crime and murder are way down.

[GreenStormCloud]

253. So now all you have is anger and snark.

When you are reduced to that level it means you have lost the argument.

Statistically flying is the safest way to travel, but sometimes planes do crash.

[HALO141]

176. I'm sorry, I thought I'd made my position clear.

Let me rephrase...

I will act in accordance with my values and I don't give a flying fuck what makes you feel safer. Safety is an illusion. Get over it.

I'm more than happy to discuss or debate appropriate policy with rational individuals but when you relentlessly denigrate your opponents in such a shameful display you lose any hope for further consideration.

[gejohnston]

58. If he wanted to

a lot of mass murders have been carried out without guns. The worst school massacre to date was done with a bomb planted by the principal. Japan and South Korea has had higher death tolls with knives. Then there was the German guy with a homemade flame thrower. On to your minor points:

If every gun was rounded up and drugs were legalized there wouldn't be any demand by dope dealers for guns because there wouldn't be an dope dealers.

Something does need to be done to get those guns off the street.

Guns are not prohibited but drugs are. So guns are easily acquired because the USA is the world's number one source of guns and all other weaponry because of the gun manufacturers lobby and the NRA lobby. Your argument might make sense if not for the fact that it's senseless based on the current laws and insane mindset in this country.

Thhere you hit the nail on the head, but you spaced out the main point. The fault does not lie with the US or Canadian gun culture, it falls on the shoulders of the drug culture that funds and fuels the violence.

You need to travel abroad more. No, we are not the number one source for guns. So far we have what is described as an AK clone, not made in the US. JL had a Glock, not made in the US. Some guy in Canada had a Beretta Storm, not made in the US. Ft Hood shooter used guns made in Europe as well. SYG does not legalize murder (actually an oxymoron). I'm willing to bet most places have similar self defense laws.

This is a sick, sick country and guns are just one of the symptoms. You don't make it easy for people to acquire guns in a nation that's being led toward terminal insanity by politicians who are so threatened by the NRA that they refuse to take action while these massacres and other gun related events just keep adding up to one simple conclusion -- we need gun control more than we need drug prohibition and trying to relate the two the way you just did is putting the cart before the horse.

We have had gun control way before drug prohibition. The NRA does not threaten politicians anymore than the AARP or EDF does. Yes the NRA can mobilize a grass roots machine much larger than the rest of those combined. That's democracy.

[gejohnston]

74. you missed the point

and why should I pay for a problem I don't contribute to? What about the drug nuts and bong owners who don't seem to mind the violence they are funding and fueling. The St Valentine's Day Massacre woke up a lot of prohibitionists and beer drinkers alike. Yet the carnage in Mexico and our inner city streets don't. Could it be that was because they were white gangsters? Could it be the average upper middle class white pot or coke head doesn't care as long as the dead gangsters are the wrong color or don't live in the same areas? Or is it because they can scapegoat some Montana farmer or a working class deer hunter and the NRA to ease their conscience? Doing so, they can use the more respectable classism and regionalism to cover racsim.

[gejohnston]

99. the gangs are not buying their guns from the store

anymore than UK and European gangs are buying their sub machine guns from the local gun room. Althoug their gun crimes are fewer, they do have more machine gun crimes. Mexico and Jamacia have very strict gun laws and their murder rates are what they are. Criminal gangs always get their guns. Not to get Godwin, resistance movements in France, Denmark, and Poland made their own STEN SMGs in bicycle shops. A few years ago, Austrailian police busted an underground gun factory making Owen SMGs.

Local jurisdictions that have the highest murder rates, including USVI also have strict gun laws. Yet, places like Vermont are as safe as Japan and safer than the UK.
But gangs had easier access to guns back in the day, but didn't use them as much.

Most US murders are people with criminal records killing other people with criminal records. The are mass murder, and they are rare, aside. Interesting thing about scientific studies on this issue, the ones funded by the Joyce Foundation and MAIG say gun laws will cause it to go down. John Lott at the CATO has an equally valid study saying the opposite. Yet studies done by social scientists with no bias or interest conflice either way say both are wrong. There is no evidence gun laws will affect violent crime one way or the other.

End easy access to guns after ending drug prohibition and the gangs that make their money off of illegal drugs and you'll drastically curtail the massacres that are becoming far too common because of the easy access to guns based on the tyrannical influence of the NRA, gun lobby and gun nuts.

Using drugs as an excuse for easy access to guns is putting the cart before the horse once again.

huh? No it is not putting the cart before the horse. It is how the real world works.

[gejohnston]

124. and you know nothing about federal gun control laws

or you are being dishonest. What you are describing is already a federal crime and has been before you were born. It is well documented by criminologists that such people do not buy their guns from gun stores, flea markets or gun shows.

[gejohnston]

184. First off,

the ATF tracing shows most NYC crime guns are from New York. The average age for crime guns is 10-14 years old. So no, they are not buying them and driving across the state line to sell to a gang at a loss. Oh yeah, that is a federal crime too. How much is it for an illegal gun in NYC? I read someplace about a 100 bucks. A used one in a pawn shop around here averages 300-400. So, your information is kind of questionable.

[HALO141]

180. Pssst! Your propaganda is showing.

Might want to see to that.

[HALO141]

234. You're confused nt

[permatex]

77. It is democracy

you may not like it, but it is democracy in action.

[permatex]

152. What tyranny would you be talking about?

Slavery was settled along time ago. It was never in the BoR like the 2A is.
Keep flailing there.

[Atypical Liberal]

158. Of course not.

This is precisely why we have Constitutional rights, like the second amendment, that are incorporated to the states, so that states, cities, and other localities cannot vote to contravene individual rights.

We don't allow states to vote on whether or not slavery is OK, and likewise we don't allow states to vote on whether or not the second amendment is OK.

[Callisto32]

220. Actually.

It is.

[GreenStormCloud]

97. Lots of ways he could have killed more people.

He rigged his apartment with booby-trapped explosives, so he knows how to make a bomb. (Not difficulty. Afghanis and Iraqis make lots of them.) He could have made a bomb, carried it in in a backpack, left it in his seat.

Here are some other mass murders with far higher body counts and no guns:

1.) Oklahoma City Bombing-169
2.) Happyland Club Fire on March 25, 1990-87
3.) Bath School Bombing on May 18, 1927-45
4.) Jack Gilbert Graham, Bombed United Airlines Flight 629 on November 1, 1955-44
5.) Thomas G. Doty, Bombed Continental Airlines Flight 11 on May 22, 1962-44

It is quite easy to kill lots of folks, even without a gun.

[GreenStormCloud]

107. Correction about the NRA

You said: ...politicians who are so threatened by the NRA that they refuse to take action...

That implies that the politicians are really anti-gun but vote pro-gun out of fear of the NRA. Actually, most members of congress are in agreement with the NRA. As of the 2010 election (Where the Democratic Party took a severe beating.) over 50% of the House and almost 50% of the Senate have NRA ratings of A. The congress is that was because that is the way that people voted.

The gun control side is losing.

[beevul]

141. Your talking points are betrayed by your own words.

"If every gun was rounded up and drugs were legalized there wouldn't be any demand by dope dealers for guns because there wouldn't be an dope dealers."

Of course, if you left the guns alone, and legalized drugs, the effect - "there wouldn't be an dope dealers" - would be the same.


"Something does need to be done to get those guns off the street."

The problem is, you don't just mean "off the street", you also mean out of everyones private possession.

" If guns don't kill people then how would this idiot in Aurora have managed to kill all those people without guns?"

Again, see the perps boobytrapped ap-artment and the unexloded bomb in the theater.

[TPaine7]

149. A bomb or bombs?

I heard on NPR that his dwelling was booby trapped, so apparently he was capable of making crude bombs.

It's not that hard to make crude bombs, and bombs could have been much more devastating.

...how would this idiot in Aurora have managed to kill all those people without guns?

[Tejas]

62. Can't wait to see your movie, will you be

consulting James Cameron when it comes to the scenes where the sadistic gun crawls out of the drawer?

[MrDiaz]

121. where did you get that from

NRA members are passing out guns to criminals right? This shows how little education you have on this subject! Criminals steal weapons and sell them to each other. You think someone would put their name on a weapon and then sale it or give it to a criminal. That is an INSANE point of view.

[gejohnston]

185. that is not what the ATF says

The ATF says the majority of New York's comes from NY. The plurality of DC's come from Maryland.

[bongbong]

201. Prove it

The favorite phrase of the gun-religionists.

[gejohnston]

218. 1,819 originating from New York; 443 from Virginia.

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/download/trace-data/2009/2009-trace-data-new-york.pdf
Virginia is a distant second after New York
pick a state, pick a year.
http://www.atf.gov/statistics/

[bongbong]

242. More data

It must be guns that originated in Virginia, were re-sold in NY, and then used in NYC crimes that caused this. That would explain why "40% of seized handguns in NYC crimes" came from Virginia.

http://www.worldvirginia.com/2012/03/no_longer_the_point

"Virginia's lack of gun purchasing restrictions, added to its conveniently close proximity to the Northeast where gun control laws are more stringent, made it a prime "source state" for criminals and felons. A study conducted by the Federal Bureau for Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in 1991 revealed that 40 percent of about 1,200 handguns seized from New York crime scenes could be traced to Virginia.

Virginia had added a background check for gun buyers in 1989, and between 1989 and 1993, 4,500 convicted or wanted felons were caught attempting to purchase retail firearms, and about 700 went to jail because of it. Criminals, however, simply recruited Virginia residents without criminal records to purchase the guns for them, often in exchange for drugs.

Virginia's Southern sister, South Carolina, had been in same situation for years. In fact, Virginia replaced South Carolina as the primary source of guns for New York in 1975 precisely because that year South Carolina passed a one-handgun-per-month law."

Yes, guns make America unsafe, and more guns make it more unsafe. Thanks for confirming that.

[gejohnston]

245. One thing

Umm, no. The ATF traces start from manufacturer, to wholesaler, to retailer. Sorry. If you look at the age of gun page, you will see that the vast majority of them were over three years old. The average is 10-14 years old.

It must be that if MAIG were honest where the crime guns come from, like his own PD, the propaganda is not as effective.

Do you understand the difference between primary sources and secondary sources are? Where is this guy getting his information?

And the new law seemed to be working. A 1995 study from the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence traced gun data from ATF and found that before 1993, 35 percent of all guns recovered by police in the Northeast that could be traced to the dealers in the Southeast came from Virginia. After the new law took effect, that number dropped to 15 percent.

The study also found that guns recovered from crime scenes in New York were 70 percent less likely to have come from Virginia than another Southeastern state dealer, compared to guns bought before the law. In 1996, an American Medical Association analysis showed that the likelihood that a criminal handgun used in the Northeast would be traced to Virginia had fallen by two-thirds.

Yeah I'm impressed. Kind of like the Family Research Council doing a study on "curing the gay".
Yes, your critical thinking skills suck. Thanks for confirming that.

[bongbong]

246. Have a nice life

> Yeah I'm impressed. Kind of like the Family Research Council doing a study on "curing the gay".

Ah, the old "I only trust data from the NRA or other right-wing pro-gun source!" Talking Point. I get it a lot from gun-relgionists.

As always, your gun-relgion has blinded you to reality. Your loss, not mine. Have a nice life with blinders over your eyes, clutching your Precious.

[gejohnston]

247. you too

I used the ATF, since when did the NRA take over the ATF? I find it amusing that some anti drags out the VPC and accuses us of "using right wing gun blogs" when we cite the FBI and ATF. Project much?

As always, your gun-relgion has blinded you to reality. Your loss, not mine. Have a nice life with blinders over your eyes, clutching your Precious.

I believe the word is projection. There might be some hypocrisy as well. I hope your critical thinking skills are better in other areas. I doubt it. It is past your bed time. Be sure to brush your teeth and look forward to entering the fourth grade.

[bongbong]

258. Psych

> I believe the word is projection. There might be some hypocrisy as well.

Yes, conservatives, the right-wing, and gun-religionists have all those traits. Thanks for confirming this.

> Be sure to brush your teeth and look forward to entering the fourth grade.

Classic.

If you ever get brave enough to venture outside your "Fortress Of Solitude" without your Precious, maybe you will learn how refreshing reality is.

[HALO141]

128. "Then explain to me how this fucking nut in Colorado could have killed all those people..."

Gallon of gas in a can.

His apartment was reportedly booby-trapped with explosives. Those have been known to kill quite a few.




In one of your posts in this thread you claim guns are one of many symptoms of insanity. If that's true then you should focus your efforts on curing the insanity. Do that and the symptoms will take care of themselves.

[beevul]

139. Did you forget the part where he booby trapped his apartment?

" Then explain to me how this fucking nut in Colorado could have killed all those people without guns."

Or the part where there was an unexploded bomb in the theater itself?


I guess you didn't read the article, or you wouldn't have asked that question, huh?

[EX500rider]

186. May be just as well he had guns...

......because if he had just got his car up to 80mph and jumped the curb into the pre-movie line out side the theater he most likely would have killed many more. And yet had he done so no one would blame the car I bet.....

[Tejas]

68. Psychological defect?

Something about hating survivors and the loved ones of the deceased, disrespect for the dead etc? Sort of like the Gifford shooting in Arizona, it was on a Saturday and the attention whores, er, politicos in DC called the press for interviews on Sunday calling for mag capacity bans etc.

[shadowrider]

188. The talibanners can't wait for tragedies like this. Much easier to push their

anti-gun agenda.

[Starboard Tack]

211. You really need to quit using the word "anti". It means nothing

and it places you in the screaming mob. You can do better. Be an individual. If you use the half word "anti", then you should qualify it. Otherwise it has no meaning.

[permatex]

216. You really need to stop telling me what I should and shouldn't say

[shadowrider]

249. I'll stop using the word "anti" as soon as they quit calling me a gun nut, deal? n/t

[Starboard Tack]

256. Gun nut means something. Look at your tag line.

Anti means nothing without a qualifier. Using a prefix on it's own only demonstrates ignorance. Your choice.

[shadowrider]

257. Look at my tagline. Hmmm, seems to me a recent gun free zone was a target rich

environment.

Lemme think.

[Tejas]

65. ...and his cheerleaders are close behind.

[ileus]

6. prayers for the wounded and victim's families.

[mvccd1000]

9. As long as the event is being used to further agendas...

... "Who needs a gun in a movie theater?"

"We'll all be safer if guns are prohibited in public places like movie theaters."

Strange that the worst mass shootings we see always take place in gun-free zones. A whole theater full of unarmed victims was unable to stop a single deranged gunman.

[Remmah2]

27. I'm waiting for the Brady Campaign to announce it's next fund raiser.

It never fails.

[DonP]

43. They'll have an e-blast fund raiser by the end of the day

They did it with Virginia Tech and pretty much every other tragedy.

The NRA will do nothing except express regrets and they'll be pilloried for being insensitive in the media and here.

When the word spreads that this guy was from California, with their AWB, the conversation should get interesting.

[rl6214]

170. Movie theaters aren't neccessarily gun free. I carry my concealed handgun to movies regularly.

I was at the midnight showing here in El Paso last night and was carrying my 9mm.

[ileus]

179. I always have my LCP with me at the movies.

[shadowrider]

190. Does my sig line ring a bell? n/t

[permatex]

10. Prayers to the victims and families.

couldn't wait to exploit a tragedy could you. Thats disgusting.

[DanTex]

13. Even better than prayers would be gun laws that prevent this sort of thing...

...from happening in the first place. Of course the gun nuts are going to push the tired "guns don't kill people" line, but the reality is the guns kill tens of thousands every year. The US is the only wealthy nation with this problem, because the US is the only nation where the gun laws are written by the right-wing gun lobby.

Pointing out that guns do, in fact, kill people is not "exploiting a tragedy" any more than pointing out that offshore drilling is dangerous and calling for tighter safety regulations in the wake of Deepwater Horizon. What is disgusting is people who willingly blind themselves of the consequences of absurdly lax gun laws, who manage to convince themselves that guns have nothing to do with gun violence, and whose collective ignorance keeps in place policies that guarantee that tens of thousands will continue to die needlessly year after year.

[permatex]

15. Start out right away with the insults

good by.

[DanTex]

18. "Good bye": there's an "e" on the end.

[permatex]

19. So now your the grammer police?

I'll spell it any way I want 2.
good by

[DanTex]

25. "You're": there's an "e" on the end.

[permatex]

29. Thanks 4 the grmmr lsson

but I'll spll it any way I wnt 2.

[DanTex]

30. You're such a rebel!

[permatex]

32. Rebel, no

but my wife has on occasion called me the village idiot.

[Remmah2]

28. We would expect nothing less. nt

nt

[ileus]

16. Why do guns keep killing people?

[Ineeda]

17. Thank you. Perfectly said. n/t

[hack89]

20. Those "lax" gun laws coincide with historically low levels of gun violence

next year you will be even safer.

That's all.

[permatex]

21. Very true

but you get one lone mentally disturbed young man who goes on a killing spree and all the anti's come out of the woodwork hurling insults and wild accusations and generally not knowing what they're talking about, here's a perfect example
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117252075#post12

[DanTex]

26. Far more gun violence than any other wealthy nation.

In one year, guns kill (far) more people than the total US deaths in 9-11, Iraq, and Afghanistan combined over the last decade. In two years, guns kill as many people as the total number of US deaths in all of Vietnam. In a decade, guns kill as many people as the total number of US combat deaths in World War 2.

The fact that gun violence was worse in the 90s doesn't mean that things are "OK", by any stretch of the imagination.

[permatex]

31. But gun violence is declining while gun ownership is rising

How does that fit into your agenda? And b4 U accuse me of saying more guns=less crime, I'm not, but I can say more guns does not=more crime.

[DanTex]

33. Actually, gun ownership has declined significantly since the early 90s.

We still have far more permissive gun laws and far more gun violence than any other wealthy country. That's not an "agenda", those are facts.

[permatex]

34. Let me put it this way

more guns are being sold while violent crime is declining. And I question the less gun ownership being pushed. Probably less people are admitting that they own guns, just my opinion thats all.

[Confusious]

112. Actually, declining crime has been going on for a while

Since the 1990s and all the new gun laws.

Gun sales fell during 1995-2002, but crime kept falling.

So really, no dice for your pet theory.

[gejohnston]

117. what new gun laws?

The AWB had zero effect. You are talking about a law that affected only what the gun looked like, and one rarely used in crime. More people are murdered with baseball bats than "AWs" Much of the Brady bill was struck down, what remains is the NRA supported NICS system. This was also a time when states began liberalizing concealed carry laws and permit proecesses.

[orpupilofnature57]

228. Baseball bats need to be swung ,why don't you

grow up?

[gejohnston]

230. and your point?

statistical fact according to the FBI UCR.

[orpupilofnature57]

232. I'll take the death tom tom and you take the bat

and we'll see -------- common sense prohibits me from Trying to have a rational conversation with a g-- n-- .

[gejohnston]

233. you are proof what Eisenstein said about common sense

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."

[bongbong]

205. gunning liars

I have posted over-n-over to the gun-religionists that their "more guns = more safety" is a big lie, unsupported by anything.

But they just keep posting the lie over & over.

The "Big Lie" technique at work, right here at DU.

[spin]

55. If gun ownership has actually declined please explain why ...

support for gun control has dropped.

[blockquoteOctober 26, 2011
Record-Low 26% in U.S. Favor Handgun Ban
Support for stricter gun laws in general is lowest Gallup has measured
by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- A record-low 26% of Americans favor a legal ban on the possession of handguns in the United States other than by police and other authorized people. When Gallup first asked Americans this question in 1959, 60% favored banning handguns. But since 1975, the majority of Americans have opposed such a measure, with opposition around 70% in recent years.

***snip***

Implications

Americans have shifted to a more pro-gun view on gun laws, particularly in recent years, with record-low support for a ban on handguns, an assault rifle ban, and stricter gun laws in general. This is the case even as high-profile incidents of gun violence continue in the United States, such as the January shootings at a meeting for U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in Arizona.

The reasons for the shift do not appear related to reactions to the crime situation, as Gallup's Crime poll shows no major shifts in the trends in Americans' perceptions of crime, fear of crime, or reports of being victimized by crime in recent years. Nor does it appear to be tied to an increase in gun ownership, which has been around 40% since 2000, though it is a slightly higher 45% in this year's update. The 2011 updates on these trends will appear on Gallup.com in the coming days.

Perhaps the trends are a reflection of the American public's acceptance of guns. In 2008, Gallup found widespread agreement with the idea that the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right of Americans to own guns. Americans may also be moving toward more libertarian views in some areas, one example of which is greater support for legalizing marijuana use. Diminished support for gun-control laws may also be tied to the lack of major gun-control legislation efforts in Congress in recent years.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150341/Record-Low-Favor-Handgun-Ban.aspx

[hack89]

35. But they continue to decline

so how can the laws be the problem?

I would understand your concern if we saw rising levels of gun violence but we don't.

[DanTex]

36. Gun laws are (part of) the problem.

Like a said, our levels of gun violence are far higher than any other wealthy nation. Gun violence has declined as part of the overall drop in crime. But it's still way too high, and without sensible gun laws, it will continue to be way too high, even if crime rates are not as high as in the 90s.

[permatex]

38. We could reduce it by 50% if you outlaw suicide

Oh wait, suicide is already outlawed in most states. You take out suicides and the total gun deaths drops to about 16,000 a year.
I agree thats still too high, but instead of adding more useless gun control laws that only impact the lawful citizens, how about enforcing the more than 21,000 laws already on the books?

BTW, I think you meant to write Like I said, not Like a said.
There's you're grammer lesson for the day.

[hack89]

39. Our gun violence rates are skewed by criminal gang violence

gun violence in America is very much concentrated in poor urban areas and is driven by gangs fighting for territory and drug profits.

Why not focus on the real problem? Crush the gangs and you will see gun violence plummet. Legalizing drugs would be a good first step.

[jeepnstein]

46. There you go talking all sensible and stuff...

Things like that don't fly around here. We have people on this board who need to gin up some serious moral outrage so they can prove their lack of trust in the average citizen is justified.

[Dr_Scholl]

181. What do you consider "sensible"?

Just curious.

[Hoyt]

42. Shootings might be even less if we crack down on guns. This guy wouldn't have shot up this theatre

without the "tools" to do it. He would have found another less lethal outlet for whatever mental issues he has.

But, members of the gun culture can't live without almost unlimited access to lethal weapons, so here we are.

[hack89]

44. Lets crack down on alcohol first

where I live, it kills many more people than guns.

Why can't I be safe too?

[permatex]

47. Yeah, your right Hoyt

we just can't live w/o our almost unlimited access to lethal weapons, and I am going to p/u a new one today.

Notice you didn't express any condolences to the families of the fallen. Stay classy.

[Hoyt]

52. Enjoy your new gun on this day.

[permatex]

54. I plan to

My new gun has nothing to do with this tragedy at all. This terrorist act was done by one lone mentally disturbed man who could have just as easily planted a bomb in the theater and maybe caused much more carnage.

Telling how you haven't even offered condolences to the victims and their families yet. All your interested in is pushing your gun control meme.

[bongbong]

204. Tough guy and his gun

permatex told me that he is "tough guy" in another thread. I wonder why "tough guys" need guns?

[Hoyt]

215. They think they are "tough" when they are armed "better" than 95% of society.

[bongbong]

237. You got that

And they get super-duper double-secret tough when they have elaborate Rambo fantasies of how they're going to save dozens of people with their Precious in situations like Colorado.

[Hoyt]

241. "Rambo fantasies" - May I use that, it's perfect.

[bongbong]

243. Naturally

It didn't originate with me!

[ileus]

60. So what are you picking up?

Looks like we're going to try and find a 638 for the wife to CC.


If she gets that I hopefully can slip in a DPMS 22lr upper in the budget.

[permatex]

66. Going into LV today to p/u the Valmet Model 76

I ordered last week. It's chambered in .223, also ordered 6 xtra 30 rnd. mags for it.

[ileus]

79. Yeah you posted about that a few weeks ago

congrats on picking up that guy....you should put that one up and polish it only, and buy a Arsenal to rag out.

[permatex]

84. Can't do that

It would anger the anti's and restrictionists here, they might call me a gun nut.

[shadowrider]

191. Holy crap. Does it fire heat seeking bullets and have a shoulder thing that goes up? n/t

[permatex]

199. Back from LV

stopped at the Lovell Canyon turnoff and fired off 60 rnds, very nice shooting rifle, iron sights are pretty accurate.
Tried to get those heat seeking bullets but no dice, the shoulder thing that goes up was not optional on this model.

[Tejas]

105. Ban porn = no rapes.

Ban everything = YUP!

[GreenStormCloud]

115. Gasoline and a match killed 87 people in a nightclub.

I bet you have some gasoline and matches. (Or a lighter.) You have the tools for mass murder.

[GreenStormCloud]

111. So other violoence is OK with you?

The UK has a much higher incidence of violent crime than we do. They use knives a lot.

[bongbong]

206. Prove it

The favorite phrase of the gun-religionists.

[Clames]

209. www.google.com

Anti-gun religionists are afraid of doing their own work as bongbong proves.

[bongbong]

235. LOL

OK, you proved you have nothing. Don't be worried, I know you gun-relgionists have faith in your Precious and pretty much nothing else.

[gejohnston]

238. check out the links in the OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x171267

[bongbong]

239. still LOL

Wow, that UK rate is bad! They must have lots of deaths compared to America!

[gejohnston]

240. per capita

but I'm guessing thinking about ratios and such are beyond your level of intellect.

[bongbong]

244. You're right

> I'm guessing thinking about ratios and such are beyond your level of intellect.

Ratios do confuse me unless I'm using Cramer's Rule. I'm usually more comfortable talking about rate of change, area under a curve, partials, Hermitians, etc.

Quick, for 10 points what two branches of mathematics are those terms from?

[gejohnston]

248. How long did it take you to look it up

or are you a math prodigy? You don't use any level of logic around here.
Mommy must be so proud of you, bless your heart.

[bongbong]

259. LOL

> You don't use any level of logic around here.

Coming from a gun-relgionist who is too afraid to walk in public without heat, that is super-hilarious.

[gejohnston]

260. I don't carry

search and you will find me saying that several times. I'd pat you on the head, but can't reach through the screen.

[bongbong]

261. OK

Then consider my response to you actually intended to the other 13,664,325 gun-relgionists in this country who are too scared to walk around with a gun.

Of course, if you ask any one of them, they'll all say "I DON'T CARRY!".

I know how gun-relgionists "argue". There is only one rule:

1) Say ANYTHING, lie, cheat, steal, etc, to defend your Precious.

[shadowrider]

263. Bless his heart n/t

[Tejas]

59. Deputy Sheriff shot his wife dead on the courthouse steps,

what type of law would have prevented that?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

71. Laws don't prevent actions.

Laws only make actions prosecutable.

[PavePusher]

83. There are already numerous laws against this.

Please tell us what new laws would have worked better.

[Remmah2]

24. This could also be the act of a radical anti gun organization. Even UN sponsored.

This could be classic guerrilla warfare. The kind of guerrilla warfare that involves deep propoganda.


Wanna bet people jump to conclusions and post all kinds of crap?

[bongbong]

86. ????

Are you serious, or sarcastic?

If the latter, whew! If the former, you get a gold star for posting a Genuine repig/teabagger Conspiracy Theory on a Liberal website.

[Tejas]

110. Stop whining. Members constantly post "repig/teabagger"

drivel in this forum. They parrot the teachings of organizations founded by Republicans all the time, Brady.org and VPC come to mind. Apparently the gun-grabbers don't have a problem with that so quit your whining.

[bongbong]

126. Teachings

> They parrot the teachings of organizations founded by Republicans all the time, Brady.org and VPC

Oh yeah, we always hear about how many repigs/teabaggers want to create more gun control laws!

[Tejas]

129. My bad, apparently you don't know who Brady/VPC are.

Google those organizations, then research the history of their founders/ceo's/etc/etc, I'll be happy to let you decide.

[bongbong]

135. Answers

> oogle those organizations, then research the history of their founders/ceo's/etc/etc, I'll be happy to let you decide.

How about if I google who gives money to the NRA, and who the membership of the NRA hates.

WAIT!!! I can answer those 2 questions right now!

1) repigs & teabaggers
2) "evil libruls"

[Tejas]

136. No idea why you buy into the NRA bogeyman.

Do so if you must, but take the time to look at the facts. 80 million gunowners in this country versus a membership of 4 million in the NRA. I could care less about the NRA.

[bongbong]

150. Ha ha

> 80 million gunowners in this country versus a membership of 4 million in the NRA.

You're saying the NRA doesn't affect politics. <- That one deserves about 10,345,334 ROFL, but i'll just put a few out for you.

[Tejas]

154. So, the NRA prevented Obama from becoming President?

Your big bad NRA did...what? Really, just what in blue blazing fuck has the NRA done besides take $ from easily persuaded people?

Not to be terse, but seriously, I'm sick and tired of all the hype relating to everything from the NRA to Sarah Palin. I mean really, who gives a flying fuck about Palin and WHY? She, along with the NRA are irrelevant to me and my daily life. If you choose to create an army to fear, that's your choice but don't expect me to fall in lockstep on silly concerns.

[bongbong]

171. So, your Strawman failed

I know gun-relgionists love Strawmen, your's is another one.

HILARIOUS!


> f you choose to create an army to fear,

That's what the NRA & the gun-relgionists do. Good point!

[Tejas]

173. You deny that you fear some whimsical army?

If you didn't, you wouldn't be whining so much.

[bongbong]

175. Goalpost moving

Another in the "strategies" that gun-relgionists use to waste the time of Liberals, run up post-counts, and in general try to turn Liberal chatboards into conservative ones.

You're going to be a star!

[Tejas]

177. Just trying to put your fear of the NRA into perspective.

I mean, simple math didn't work so...?

[bongbong]

178. LOL

Keep denying facts & reality. How you defend your Precious is cute!

[bongbong]

197. Reality

> Really, just what in blue blazing fuck has the NRA done besides take $ from easily persuaded people?


Just because you're uninformed, either on purpose or by accident, doesn't mean reality doesn't keep occurring.

[shadowrider]

193. We were told the NRA is powerless

will you anti's make up your minds please?

[bongbong]

196. Who told you that?

Rush, Sean, Glenn, Snowmobile Snooki, or who?

[shadowrider]

200. Use the search feature. It's your friend n/t

[bongbong]

202. OK

I searched and I found that, indeed, those right-wing assholes are the ones who are poisoning your mind with these specious beliefs.

You need to get your ears out of the AM hate-radio gutter.

[shadowrider]

192. I can tell you who donates to Brady. The list is in this post.

[bongbong]

203. Yes

I knew Liberals donated to Brady. DUH!

[jeepnstein]

37. Most likely a mental health issue.

And I'll be willing to wager that his family knew that he was both armed and mentally ill.

[permatex]

40. I'll wager that your right

to do this horrendous act, you really have to have a couple of screws loose.

[Hoyt]

45. Of course they probably knew he was armed. They've probably been introducing him to gun culture

since age 6. Probably started him out with assault/tactical looking guns so he'd grow up to be a "man."

[permatex]

48. And he may be a martian

here to sow the seeds of destruction of mankind.
I can make up ridiculous shit just as much as you.
Here's a novel idea, why not wait for the investigation to conclude instead of jumping to your usual anti gun crap?

[Tejas]

51. Do YOU have guns so you can be a "man"?

[ileus]

64. My son harvested his first deer at 6.

Using of all things my Sub2000 with the red dot off my AR.


Last year I upgraded him to a 7mm-08 with another 40mm red dot. I harvested another one....two shots two kills.

He asked me last night if we could hunt bear this season... He's such a boy.

[Hoyt]

69. Hunt bear? That's nice.

[ileus]

76. That's what I thought....

It's like 1700 bucks just to get the head and rug combo. That's what my neighbor paid a few years back...

I told him if he harvested a bear we'd get at least the rug/head mount but he'd have to keep it in his room. LOL


I've never hunted bear, I told him he'd have to use his Bow instead.... He replied "But Dad my bows only for target shooting!"

I know we see 4 or 5 a year hiking or Mt biking but when hunting we haven't seen any. I myself have zero desire to bear hunt, way too much work if you do get lucky enough to take one. We did see one last year about a mile away from the house one evening riding bikes it wouldn't be to hard in a case like that. But for most you'd have to be a couple of miles away from the nearest road.

[Hoyt]

101. Here this can hold you until you get time to shoot one.

&feature=player_embedded

[ileus]

114. Uh....I think someone's beat us to that one.

I had a neighbor that run a petting zoo and guided hunt farm once. Not very popular when the tourist found out you could kill the same deer you could hand feed.

All his deer and pigs got out once....the locals had a field day.


He killed the third largest ram on record (or so he said) last year.

[Tejas]

49. Is that the Seattle Two-Step you're doing?

[cleanhippie]

75. What kind of scanner did he have?

[bongbong]

81. Waiting for the NRA to take advantage of this tragedy

"Don't let the evil libruls take your guns away! You know you need 'em to walk out of the house! It's DANGEROUS out there with all the thugs (wink wink) in public! Send us more money! We'll protect you from all those big bad thugs (wink wink) that lurk everywhere you step 24x7 ready to take your stuff!"

[permatex]

87. So far the only ones taking advantage here are you anti's and restrictionists.

[bongbong]

89. That was FAST

Looks like the NRA has you guys "on-patrol" here on DU awfully fast!

BTW, you never answered my question. If you're a "tough guy" (as you posted), what does that make me, who doesn't need a gun to feel safe?

[Tejas]

91. Check the time stamp on the OP.

[permatex]

92. Doesn't make you anything except an extremist

who posts often rude, disjointed rambling insulting posts that make no sense at all. You never contribute anything to the conversation, just disruption.
Have I answered you question?
Now I'm done with you.

[bongbong]

95. Sensical

> Have I answered you question?

No, you haven't addressed my point about how people who don't need guns to venture outside are "tough", vs. the self-professed "tough guys" who need to strap on weaponry before they are brave enough to venture into the sunlight.

> Now I'm done with you.

Oh, yes, I'm sure you'll never respond again to a post of mine.

[Tejas]

96. Begging is an unbecoming quality, it rivals trolling.

"Oh, yes, I'm sure you'll never respond again to a post of mine."

[bongbong]

103. Clues

> Begging is an unbecoming quality, it rivals trolling.

So you're calling that 'begging'? Hilarious, and once again I see how the "minds" of gun-relgionists "work".



(Note for the clueless: consider it a prediction that I WILL get more replies...gun-religionists are sooooooooo funnny!!!)

[krispos42]

174. Our country is safe enough...

...that you can go through life without giving a second though to being attacked, and the odds are very good that you'll never be a victim.


It makes you... average.




There are millions of people in elder care that somehow survived 60 years on US highways and roadways without wearing a seatbelt. Not because they were brave, but because even in the bad old days dying in an accident was a low-probability event.

[Clames]

157. At least they wait.

You and every other anti-gun religionist (read VPC/LCAV/MAIG/Brady Campaign parrot) stated tap dancing this tragedy immediately.

[bongbong]

172. Funny stuff

> anti-gun religionist

I love how you've copied my posting style! You must admire it. Good job on recognizing my talent.

And as far as your "point", it's moot. The only thing the NRA should be saying is "We're sorry, we were wrong".

[Clames]

208. Nothing copied from you.

I don't post baseless, idiotic, anti-logic statements filled with smilies and thinking it makes any kind of point. No, much better educated than that. You have trouble even spelling simple words and that is nothing to admire (or be proud of in your case)... Yes, you are sorry. And wrong.

[bongbong]

236. My posts

My posts show how illogical the NRA Talking Points are that are repeated here.

Gun-religionist posts, like yours, show how much they love their Precious.

[Tejas]

106. Where were the police?

No armed security at that theatre?

[Tejas]

116. "At least the perp didn't get shot in the back."

[4th law of robotics]

122. The blood isn't even dry and already people are making political hay out of this

awesome.

Stay classy.

/perhaps you should organize a protest of the victims funerals to bring attention to your anti-gun beliefs.

[Tejas]

131. They've probably already asked Phelps to protest the funerals.

[crim son]

132. I fucking hate guns.

I know that guns don't kill people, people kill people. I know the vast majority of gun owners are good, law-abiding citizens, yada yada yada. What I don't know is why any normal person would want to be part of the culture of murder that the gun represents. They aren't made to ornament your living room; they're made to kill.

Disgusting.

End of rant.

[Tejas]

133. You sound confused.

"guns don't kill people"

"vast majority of gun owners are good"

"the culture of murder that the gun represents"




How about the culture of self defense or the culture of hunting, are you saying those are "murder"?

[bongbong]

207. Excellent post

And in addition, I notice you got exactly zero replies from the gun-religionists.

Edit to add:

I guess your experience proves their "argument" about how an armed society is a polite one.

[Ashgrey77]

145. He was also apparently a PHD canidate for a doctorate in Neuroscience,

with no criminal record. Sorry but there would have been NO way to stop him from buying weapons.

[Tejas]

151. Fantasies of "pre-crime" do not a point make.

eg: You drink a beer now and then, I'm certain you'll murder some children someday because you're sure to drive drunk.

[Ashgrey77]

153. You can't arrest someone until they have committed a crime.

Law abiding means law abiding until they break the law. You can't just arrest people out of speculation, and for good reason. We have rights that HAVE to be observed. Innocent until proven guilty, sorry but that's just the way our system works and the reality of it. You can't arrest, detain, and deny people civil rights that haven't done anything yet, no matter how much you want to.

[permatex]

155. So now all you have to do is get that pesky 2A repealed

better get started on it.

[permatex]

162. Struck a nerve, didn't I?

I'm not making fun of you, I'm serious, go start a petition and then convince 2/3 of the states to ratify it.

Your continuous insults is a sure sign that you have lost the debate and thats all you have left.
My wife would be surprised by your statement of who my true love is.

And I care about what you find disgusting because.................................................?

Sorry, can't comment anymore, on my way to LV to pick up my new rifle.
Have a good day.

[4th law of robotics]

164. Did you know that prior to their first conviction

all drunk drivers had a clean record?

Best to assume then that anyone with a clean driving record is a potential drunk driving murderer.

[4th law of robotics]

163. By that logic

no one is a murderer until they are, treat everyone as murderers.

no one is a pedophile until they are, treat everyone as pedophiles.

no one is a rapist until they are, treat everyone as rapists.

no one is pays with a check in the 10 items or less line until they do, treat everyone like assholes.

[Ter]

156. Less than .0000001% mass murder

The rest of us should not be punished.

[era veteran]

161. Sympathy to the families and friends

A sad affair.
RIP

[rl6214]

166. you,d lose that one

[Tejas]

187. Jimmy Olsen, I want to be the first to congratulate you.

Police have released info that the shooter used an AK-47 similar to the one at the extreme upper right of this picture.

Who's awesome? YOU'RE AWESOME!

[sarisataka]

189. Time to go to a jury...

Why is it that pro-rights people are crucified for 'celebrating' when some poor, near-innocent thug gets shot while committing a felony?

Yet at every tragedy the pro-control cannot wait until the blood cools to bathe in it and parade the bodies in the street, weeping and pointing at every gun owner-'this is your fault'. They gleefully wait and speculate on what the gun was so they can say 'see, the AWB did nothing but it surely would have stopped this crime.'

They will speculate on his political leanings, if he belonged to the NRA (and is a poster child if not), what music he listened to and what he read. They will go on about how if it wasn't for easy access to guns he would be a boy scout leader and would never have spit on the side walk.
Every gun owners is one of these ticking time bombs just waiting to go off. You may be allowed a single shot .22 if you are still that paranoid or still wish to hunt. If there only were no guns there would be no violent crime because real criminals only want the money.
(all of this can be found in GD, with some literary licence.)


I give my condolences to the victims and their families.

Let's learn from this, since he is alive. Find out why, what could have been done and go from there.

[elleng]

231. 12 dead, total 60 dead or injured.