13 Gun Rules

[GreenStormCloud]

1. Guns have only two enemies rust and politicians.

2. It’s always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

3. Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.

4. Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arms length.

5. Never say, “I’ve got a gun.” If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they hear should be the safety clicking off.

6. The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes; the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

7. The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win – cheat if necessary.

8. Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets . . . You may get killed with your own gun, but he’ll have to beat you to death with it, because it’ll be empty.

9. If you’re in a gunfight:
– If you’re not shooting, you should be loading.
– If you’re not loading, you should be moving.
– If you’re not moving, you’re dead.

10. In a life and death situation, do something . . . It may be wrong, but do something!

11. If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what do you have to be paranoid about?

12. You can say ‘stop’ or ‘alto’ or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s head is pretty much a universal lan guage.

13. You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

1. Regarding rule #9

Clint Black, propriater of Thunder Ranch, puts it a little differently.

If you,re not shooting you're loading.
If you're not loading you're moving.
If you're not moving, somebody is going to come along and put your head on a stick.

Or something like that. It's been awhile but they sell T-shirts.

Just seems better expressed to me.

[Callisto32]

6. Clint Smith.

Clint Black is a...country singer, I think.

[permatex]

16. Yes he is

and a very good one at that.

[DonP]

15. You're thinking of Clint Smith IIRC.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

83. One of my personal favorites:

"Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation." - unofficial USMC gun-fighting rules.

[Hoyt]

2. Please submit a link to source.

[GreenStormCloud]

3. Multiple sources. It floats around the net.

I got it in an email. Obviously it didn't originate with a gun-grabber.

Google "13 rules for guns" and a bunch of different hits come up.

[Hoyt]

7. I bet it floats around the net -- appearing on Stormfront, Free Republic, and everyone's right wing

Brother-in-Law's bathroom reading material, probably tucked into their leather bound copy of the "Turner Diaries."

[permatex]

11. See, there you go

You say your post is an opinion, yet you state it as a fact w/o any evidence or links.

[Hoyt]

21. Permatex, almost anything that starts with "I bet . . . . ." is obviously an OPINION. Christ man.

You really shouldn't be around guns because you can't assess a situation.


Words like "probably" can help you determine an OPINION from a fact.

And yes, I do believe a lot of gun owners/carriers are into right wing gun websites and thoughts regarding the use of guns against fellow citizens.

[permatex]

22. See there you go again

have to get your liitle snarky insult in there don't you?
You just stated a fact w/o proof, show me the proof that I can't assess a situation.
Been doing pretty good all my life.
Never mind, I think you've shown your true colors to eveyone here by now.
I won't ask for anymore proof or links from you again as I know you won't provide them.

[Hoyt]

25. The proof is in the little boxes on your computer screen. You read posts where I say, "I think . .

And then you go all crazy because you think I am posting my OPINION as a "fact."

Most of my posts are an opinion based upon my experience with the gun culture.

You, my friend, are part of that experience that has led to my OPINIONs.

[permatex]

27. I'm not even going to bother

especially reading a comment you just posted about those of us who interpret the 2A.

[rl6214]

51. Most people base there opinions on some form of fact, you on the other hand

base your opinion on your imagination.

[GreenStormCloud]

48. So which rules do you disagree with?

Saying that some other sit may also list them is NOT a rebuttal. Nobody has appointed you as zampolit.

[ileus]

69. I saw it first on du.

[Trunk Monkey]

74. It also pops up on THR every once in a while

Did you have a point?

[Lurks Often]

4. Why should he, you never do n/t

[Hoyt]

8. If I quote someone, there's attribution. When it's my opinion, don't think it is needed.

[permatex]

10. The problem with you is

that your "opinions" are stated as facts. You've done that to me several times and when called on it, you come back with this crap.

I, and others here, would really like to see proof or links to what you claim as opinions.
When you form and opinion, it's formed from what you percieve as a fact.

[Hoyt]

14. How are my opinions stated as "facts." They are obviously my opinions. You don't like them because

I think (this is an opinion) guns need to be restricted, particularly carrying in public.

I do appreciate your believing my opinions are facts, though. You and society would be a lot better off if you followed them regarding guns (again, that is my opinion).

[permatex]

18. Your entitled to your opinions/facts.

Just don't ask us to follow your opinions/facts.
So are you going to provide proof of what you claim I support? You stated that as a fact, not an opinion, or are you going to retract?

[Starboard Tack]

35. Linking to RW websites is a good way to get PPR'd.

I'm sure you can do your own research if you doubt Hoyt's assertion that these so-called "Gun Rules" emanate from such places.
You will find this drivel on Patriot Update and The Daily Caller, both right wingnut sites.

[permatex]

36. You miss the point

hes claiming that the gun rules are from RW sites without any proof, something he's very good at.

[Starboard Tack]

39. They are from right wing sites. He guessed right.

Check those sites out and tell me if you want to be associated with anyone who distributes their drivel.

[permatex]

40. Again you miss the point

He constantly, oh, never mind. I suspect you know exactly what I'm talking about.
I refuse to go to RW sites unless I absolutely have to.

[ManiacJoe]

47. You seem to be mistaking

"from" with "currently posted on". These "rules" were floating around long before the WWW existed.

[Starboard Tack]

50. I know. Just along with lots of other wingnut drivel.

They are not "rules", but rather a conservative/libertarian mantra. Simplistic nonsense for selfish simpletons.

[Clames]

56. Selfish simpletons...

...aptly describes those who parrot the mantra of VPC/MAIG/LCAV/Brady Campaign. Reality is not kind to those folks.

[Starboard Tack]

57. You may well be right. I'm not that familiar with any of those, except that they are pro control.

I don't like simplistic thinking, regardless from where it emanates. I may support certain agenda of various acronyms, including the NRA. If so, it is purely coincidental. I am an independent thinker, in case you hadn't already figured that one out yet. Doesn't make me many friends around here, but I'm not looking to make friends, especially among the ranks of those who follow campaign mantras of any ilk.

[permatex]

59. I figured that out on my first day here.

you being and independent thinker and all which is a good thing.

[Starboard Tack]

67. Thank you sir. It isn't always easy around here.

We have some members who think because you disagree on something, you must be on the extreme opposite end of the spectrum. I don't do extreme very well. I am called an anti by those who think guns should be carried wherever legal and that pretty much means everywhere. I am neither pro nor anti gun. I am pro rights, pro self defense and anti stupid.
Like you, I have been on this planet long enough to impart some sound advice on certain things. I don't force it on anyone, but feel obliged to voice my thoughts when I encounter those who peddle dangerous nonsense.

[gejohnston]

72. No it is not easy.

Although you are often described as an "anti", and maybe you are to some degree. Are you bothered by the level of discourse shown by some of the regular "antis"? I mean one there is one who acts like he is stoned in a jr high locker room, another is OK with cops machine gunning fleeing 14 year olds in the back. Then there is the occasional drive by troll that just says something stupid.

[Starboard Tack]

76. We are all anti something to some degree. It means nothing.

I'm bothered by those who are here for the wrong reasons. I'm bothered by extremists of any stripe. I'm bothered by those who think the answer is to ban all guns as much as I am bothered by those who hold 2A to be the holy grail. I'm bothered by those who feel they need to routinely carry a gun in their daily lives. I'm bothered by those who think carrying a gun is cool. I'm bothered by those who think a handgun is the best tool for self defense.
I'm bothered by simplistic terms like "anti" and "pro" without any qualifiers.
And most of all I'm bothered by stupidity.

[gejohnston]

79. that is why I used quotation marks

Does naming names violate the ToS? Everything exists on a continuum. Gun control advocate is inaccurate be cause everyone is for gun control, even the NRA. The issue is to what degree. If I were on the same side as say, Hockymom, I would have to rethink my position. Of course, if you witness a murder as a child, all of the logic in the world probably isn't going to change your mind. Neither are cultural influences, such as yours. Granted, much of my view is based on culture and experience as well, but level of intellect and discourse shown by many "antis" for the lack of a better word, reaffirms my position on an other level.

[rl6214]

52. The only thing is most peoples opinions are based in some way on facts

while your "opinions" are only based on your prejudices and imagination.

[Spoonman]

13. You mean like this?

"Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks."

Harry Callahan - AKA Clint Eastwood, The Dead Pool (1988)

[Lurks Often]

45. That was a rhetorical question

I've read enough of your posts to decide that you have zero credibility.

[4th law of robotics]

19. "Sometimes things are clear without the need to study them"

[AtheistCrusader]

31. I don't think anyone knows for sure.

I think I saw a couple of them in one of Jeff Cooper's books, but that doesn't mean he was the source.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

73. May I ask...

...what relevance that might have?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

5. I like rules #6, #7 & #12 the most...

[Meiko]

9. I haven't seen this

in quite some time. Some of the points are pretty good.

[permatex]

12. My favorites are

#2, 5, & 7.

[DonP]

17. Slight variation on #7

Our Sgt Major always told us; "if you find yourself in a fair fight, you probably fucked up."

[permatex]

20. Very true

never ever go into a fight thinking about fairness.

[Spoonman]

23. When you can provide me a copy of the "rules" for fighting

I *might* think about following them!

- Me Quote

[permatex]

24. I looked all over the Internet

and I just can't seem to find them.

[Spoonman]

28. Darn! n/t

[Starboard Tack]

37. Then you're not looking very well

They are on several wingnut sites. Google "13 rules for gun owners"

[permatex]

38. Then your not reading very well

he was asking about the rule book for fighting, nothing about guns.
I try like hell not to go to RW sites.
How about you?

[Starboard Tack]

41. Oops! My confusion. Sorry.

I only go there when researching quotes made here. It's an excellent way of assessing where others get their info.

[permatex]

42. No problem

If I have to go to a RW site, I will usually take a bathe afterwards with steel wool.

[Hoyt]

26. May be true in a war zone. Fortunately, you are back in the USA now.

[permatex]

29. So are you saying that we should fight fair

if we find ourselves in a fight for our lives just because we're in the U.S.?

[Hoyt]

30. Permatex, I think your idea of a "fight for your life" is very different from most of us.

Seriously, when was the last time you were in a fight for your life and "a few seconds away from becoming a vegetable" (source: quotation is comment by Zimmerman defense team).

[permatex]

32. 1968

Khe Sanh, 1975-Phoenix, AZ, a patient hopped up on PCP.
"Very different from the most of us". IMHO, anytime you get into a fight, it's a fight for your life.
I suspect, IMHO, that your idea of a fair fight is to throw a can of beans, or a front bicycle tire at someone who is fighting you.

I will always fight as if my life depends on it because it really does, and I will use whatever is at my disposal to win, whether that is a firearm, a rock, a knife, or just kicking the perp in the balls if thats all I have.
Fighting fair is a sure way to get, A. injured or, B. killed.

Thanks, but no thanks.

[Hoyt]

33. And did you need a gun to handle it? BTW -- you must have been reading back posts, or

maybe you are the guy who was on here under a another name who didn't know the difference between "your" and "you're" (that is an opinion by the way based on the fact you bring up very old posts from a time you supposedly weren't here).

Now, that you are about to start carrying a gun, you can fight "unfairly" with every UNARMED teenager, drunk, etc., that "riles" you.

[permatex]

34. Are you accusing me of something?

Your asking me if I needed a gun in 68. WTF do you think? If your asking about 75, there were 4 of us fighting with this guy, 2 cops and myself and my partner, so, no I didn't need a gun, the cops had those and they were getting ready to use them.

I use your as opposed to you're because its easier to type.
Hey Hoyt, I do now how to read, I do know how to go to the archives and read.

I won't even dignify your last sentence with a reply.

[rl6214]

53. Did ya read the one about the guy he disarmed, stripped the .45 down

and threw the pieces into the bushes ?

[permatex]

54. No, I didn't find that one

He's quite the guy isn't he?

[Hoyt]

55. You are confused. Actually I took a 9mm away from right wing racist that pulled it on me.

But, I have broken down 1911s in the most unusual places just to prove a point. Luckily I grew up and decided there a lot of better things to do than playing with guns and contributing to gun pollution in our society.

If you are going to keep a file on my posts, at least get the facts correct. You wouldn't want permatex beaching about the facts being incorrect.

[rrneck]

61. You are so fucking badass!

You're like, the center of the badass universe from whence all of the concentrated badassitude radiates. When you fart Chuck Norris shits himself. I bet there isn't a tall building you can't bound as long as Bridget brings your Chardonnay properly chilled.

Fucking keyboard commando bourgeoisie mall ninja bullshit.

[Hoyt]

62. Just don't think you need a gun in your pants to handle life.

Prefer straight rye whiskey to Chardonnay.

[rrneck]

65. Bullshit.

Anybody as badass as you gotta drink fru fru wine.

[Meiko]

82. Sure you did......

How do you know the guy was a right wing racist? did you ask him. What did you do that made him pull a gun on you.

[Trunk Monkey]

75. I'm not in high school anymore

If someone attacks me I assume that they intend to either severely injure or kill me and I would respond accordingly.

EDIT: Since I'm fairly certain you're going to ask, the last time was in 1997. I did use a gun to defend myself and no shots were fired.

Yes I am aware that that was quite some time ago but since I didn't see that one coming and I'm pretty sure I won't see the next one (if there is one) coming I choose to continue to carry a firearm. /EDIT

[sarisataka]

43. At least until

they start using those drones against 'undesirables
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117249755#post51'

[permatex]

44. Thats right,

he did say that didn't he? I thought only RW assholes thought that way, whudda thunk it?

[Hoyt]

77. So, do you consider racist, gun trafficking, terrorists, desirable?

Apeears you do, IMO.

[permatex]

78. Nope

and I never said anything like that. What i do support is civil rights not being violated no matter who it is.
It would appear that you don't and we have your own words as fact.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=471849#471995

Is this your idea of civil rights?

[jeepnstein]

46. Too complicated. I prefer "The Four Rules"

RULE 1
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again.

RULE 2
NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY
You may not wish to destroy it, but you must be clear in your mind that you are quite ready to if you let that muzzle cover the target. To allow a firearm to point at another human being is a deadly threat, and should always be treated as such.

RULE 3
KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER TIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
This we call the Golden Rule because its violation is responsible for about 80 percent of the firearms disasters we read about.

RULE 4
BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
You never shoot at anything until you have positively identified it. You never fire at a shadow, or a sound, or a suspected presence. You shoot only when you know absolutely what you are shooting at and what is beyond it.

[GreenStormCloud]

49. Those 4 are the very serious safety rules. ALWAYS to be obeyed.

The 13 I posted are more tongue-in-cheek views of aspects of life.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

84. They are good :)

I like the longer unofficial USMC Rules:

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring their friends who have guns.
   
2. If you can, make friends with those on the crew served weapons. Bring them as well. Borrow money from them, it gives them an added incentive to protect you.
   
3. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
   
4. Only hits count. Close doesn't count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
   
5. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.
   
6. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
   
7. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
   
8. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived and who didn't.
   
9. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating (calling for arty or air support), reloading, and running.
   
10. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting is more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
    
11. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
    
12. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
    
13. In combat, there are no rules, always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
    
14. Have a plan.
    
15. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
    
16. Have a back-up, back-up plan in case CentCom or SecDef finds the first two plans "unacceptable".
    
17. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The only visible target should be in your gun sights.
    
18. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect your flank.
    
19. Don't drop your guard.
    
20. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
    
21. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).
    
22. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
    
23. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
    
24. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
    
25. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
    
26. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
    
27. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4 or 5."
    

[oneshooter]

85. And the last one is:

The last one standing, breathing, and not bleeding too much, is the winner. And standing is optional.

[bongbong]

58. Forgot one

You forgot #14:

14. Never leave your "Fortress Of Solitude" without carrying plenty of guns because it a SCARY WORLD out there filled with thugs (wink wink) and other "evil doers"!

[Meiko]

60. One is sufficient

but thanks for caring....

[sarisataka]

63. At least no more than three

otherwise it gets ostentatious

[Hoyt]

64. Bet that ends up on Free Republic, Stormfront, etc., and will recycle here within a few months.

[Clames]

68. Not surprised you look forward to that.

Of course by then you'll forget that it originated here and you'll just deny and whine when you demand proof and someone posts the link to this thread

[CokeMachine]

80. Are you going to post it there?

Sounds like you have may know how to do that. I may be wrong though. When it does show up please let me know. I'll take your word for it and not ask for links since I don go to those cites. I know it's sites but I wanted to test your spelling police training.

[Hoyt]

81. Not into such stuff, but most right wing gun nuts are.

[DrDan]

66. best expressed in a John Wayne voice . . . or Clint Eastwood

someone seemingly full of testosterone

[gejohnston]

71. James Stewart

If it weren't for better actors going off to war while he stayed home to make war movies, John Wayne would be "Marion Who?"

[ileus]

70. Bring enough gun.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

86. Another useful bunch:

Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you are.
If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.
No military combat plan survives the first contact with the enemy intact.
If you are short of everything except enemy, then you are in combat.
Incoming fire has the right of way.
If the enemy is in range, so are you.
Friendly fire - isn't.
Things that must be together to work usually are not shipped together.
Anything you do can get you shot - including doing nothing.
Make it too tough for the enemy to get in, and you can't get out.
Tracers work both ways.
The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.
Professional soldiers are predictable, but the world is full of amateurs.

[sarisataka]

87. And...

Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it. Worry about the many addressed "To Whom it May Concern"

The enemy {criminal} invariably attacks on two occasions:
when they're ready.
when you're not.

My personal favorites:
If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
Never go to bed with anyone crazier than yourself.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

88. Just an observation:

"After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it." - William Burroughs 1992