Crime Report: Gun Fired During Hartland Road Rage Incident (CCW non-abider)

[jpak]

http://brighton.patch.com/articles/crime-report-gun-fired-during-hartland-road-rage-incident

Police confiscated a man's gun and Concealed Pistol License (CPL) after the weapon was dischared in a road rage incident on June 22 on North U.S. 23 near Highland Road in Hartland Township, police said.

Police said a man in a red truck told police that as he was traveling north on US-23 behind a blue Honda at 70 miles per hour (the unposted speed limit), the driver slammed on his brakes, forcing the man to swerve off the road onto the left shoulder to avoid hitting the car in front of him and traffic. Police said the man told them he heard a loud bang when he came alongside the Honda and saw the driver waving his hand around. The man told police he called 911 and immediately went to Woody's Towing at the request of dispatch.

Police said the man driving the Honda stopped at the request of dispatch near Runyan Lake and White Lake Roads and told police that his Glock gun was in the center console, with the clip removed. The man told police he was driving down North US-23 when the red truck began to drive aggressively behind him, so he let off the gas, but did not slam on his brakes, police said.

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douchebag

yup

[louis-t]

1. That would be Michigan.

Some of the most aggressive drivers in the world.

[ManiacJoe]

2. Was there something in the article you wanted to discuss?

[jpak]

3. Yeah - the Myth of the Law Abiding CCW Holder

It's still a fairy tale

yup

[Remmah2]

4. I'll bet he had a DMV issued drivers license as well.

nt

[bongbong]

5. False equivalence

When you drive badly, it rarely ends with a death.

When you start shooting, death often follows. The real point is that those wonderful CCW holders are supposed to be oh so CAREFUL and TRAINED on how to handle their worship-items (AKA guns).

[Remmah2]

6. BAZINGA (on your part).

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1103.pdf

[bongbong]

8. Your point?

Did you have a point?

[Remmah2]

10. Like the Emperor's new clothes.

Some people can't see the truth, some can't handle it.

[Callisto32]

13. Demonstrably false.

"When you start shooting, death often follows."

Shooting sports are some of the safest around. You want something that death or grievous bodily injury often follows, start looking up stats on lacrosse. According to uslacrosse.org, the injury rate for male lacrosse is 1/6 competitions, presuming 15 participants. If shooting sports were anywhere NEAR that it would headline news services for weeks.

I would love to see a comparison of rounds discharged per annum:deaths/injuries caused by said rounds. I would exclude the military, though for reasons that should be obvious if you have any background in social research.

I suspect your attempt at fabricating support for your position would be even more laughable.

CCW holders have a better safety record than police.

"When you drive badly, it rarely ends in death"

Hmmmm...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

[PavePusher]

17. Ummm.... you didn't think that through at all, did you?

When you drive badly, it rarely ends with a death.

DUzy, right there.

[GreenStormCloud]

7. Rare does not mean "never".

It is very rare for a CCWer to commit a crime with his gun, but there will be a few who do.

Legal concealed carry saves more innocent lives than it takes.

In Texas the detailed statistics are compiled annually by the Department of Public Safety and published on the internet. It is likely that the Texas experience with Concealed Handgun Licenses would be about the same in other states. The last year for which statistics are published is 2009 for convictions. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm

In 2009 there were 402,914 people who had CHLs. Out of those people there was exactly one (1) murder conviction and no manslaughter convictions. Out of the general population there were 600+ convictions for murder in its various forms and manslaughter.
So very, very few CHL holders go bad, but some do.

The DPS also publishes an annual Crime in Texas Report. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/crimereports/09/citCh3.pdf
From that report, page 15:

Statistics on murder circumstances, victims, and
victim/offender relationships on the next page
include justifiable homicides. Justifiable homicide
is the killing of a felon by a peace officer in the
line of duty or the killing (during the commission
of a felony) of a felon by a private citizen. In
2009, there were 106 justifiable homicides, of
which, 52 were felons killed by private citizens,
and 54 were felons killed by police.

In Texas all homicides, even those that are clearly self-defense, have to go before a grand jury which will rule if the killing was justified or not. So those 52 justified private citizen homicides were ones in which the defender genuinely and legitimately feared for his life. Since most shooting are merely woundings there would be a much larger number of justified woundings in which the defender genuinely feared for his life, but that number is not kept. Obviously there are dozens of cases each year in which a CHL holder uses their gun to save themselves.

Dozens of innocent lives saved versus one innocent killed shows the concealed carry is working in Texas. As already stated, there is no reason to believe that other CCW states have a different experience.

Legal concealed carry saves innocent lives.

[ManiacJoe]

9. OK, so start a conversation about your "myth".

[Remmah2]

11. The myth is that because a person has a drivers license that they'll never do wrong.

No person with a drivers license has ever:

Sped
Had a DUI/DWI
Had a hit and run.
Tried to run someone down.
Heat stroked their kid or dog in the car.

[Callisto32]

12. So you want to discuss the myth of the law abider.

Hint: He does not exist. Well, let me take that back. Plenty of people make it through life pretty much following law, its statutes and mallum prohibitum that catch most folks.

Nobody has ever said that CCW holders are 100% law abiding, non-violent folks. So, just like your other post this is a STRAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNN.

[Hoyt]

14. Always has been a "fairy tale" used by the gun crowd to keep the guns flowing.

I bet the permit holder will still have one a year from now.

[ManiacJoe]

15. I am in for $10.

[PavePusher]

18. What are you trying to say?

the Myth of the Law Abiding CCW Holder

How is it a "Myth"?

It's still a fairy tale

What makes it a "fairy tale&quot sic)?

[Simo 1939_1940]

20. Why do make make statements that are so easy to refute?

The stats for Texas CCW's have been posted on numerous occasions, as have those for Florida. You can lie all you want about how "common" misbehavior is among concealed carry permit holders -- you'll just be exposed for your BS.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x422366#422581

[Atypical Liberal]

21. Do you have any data to suggest that more than a tiny minority of CCW holders break the law?

Because I have a lot of data that indicates that CCW permit holders are hardly ever likely to break the law, any law, let along firearm-related laws.

The rate of revocation, for states that publish the data, is around 2%.

That means that 98% of CCW permit holders are not involved in crimes that would result in their permits being revoked.

So it is hardly a myth that most CCW permit holders are law-abiding.

[Meiko]

16. The way some are talking

you would think this guy had shot and killed at least a dozen people. There are going to be cases of CCW holders doing dumb stuff, and shooting into the ground for no reason is dumb stuff. Even with an incident like this CCW holders all over the country are way ahead in the "no crimes" column. Regardless of what Hoyt has to say about it CC holders are reliable,even tempered, law abiding citizens, and the statistics show that year after year. So, anti-gunners...you can whine and stamp your little feet as much as you want but it doesn't change a thing

In the case of the guy in the article, he is not mature enough to be carrying a concealed weapon. He obviously has an impulsive side that he needs to learn to deal with. More than likely his CCW will be revoked so he won't be carrying a concealed weapon anytime soon.Should he get it back? that depends on what he was charged with and what the law states. He should defiantly go through more training before he starts carrying again. As far as I am concerned he is another bad egg that got weeded out. I am just glad to see nobody was hurt.

[TPaine7]

19. What do you want me to say- he was wrong & paid for it. That doesn't justify you wanting to

strip the rights of the law-abiding.

compare: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=46131