Zimmerman update - video - Appears to be the next day. He is at the scene telling his story

[GreenStormCloud]

http://miami.cbslocal.com/video/7423233-web-extra-zimmerman-reenactment-send-police/

Posted without comment. Let everybody make up their own mind.

[slackmaster]

1. I am out sick today and watched the whole thing. Only one thing struck me as a bit odd.

According to Zimmerman's account in this video, just before he shot Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman's jacket and shirt had been moved in a way that exposed his holstered gun. Zimmerman stated that he had not been thinking about the gun until he realized that Martin was (so he claims) attempting to take the gun from him.

I am not accustomed to carrying a concealed firearm, but I do regularly carry a folding knife in my pocket and I must say that whenever I start to feel apprehensive about my situation I become keenly aware that I am armed. I typically check to verify that the knife is where it is supposed to be and in a position to be deployed quickly in case it is needed.

A lot of the self-defense training I've had focuses on situational awareness. I've been taught to be on "Condition Yellow" most of the time rather than Condition White which is blissful, naive unawareness of one's surroundings. I'm always thinking about where a potential attacker might be hiding, and available avenues of escape. I'm on the alert for ambushes and other traps, taking care to avoid pratfalls and low-hanging sources of head injury.

I think if I carried a gun, that I would always have it on my mind.

[GreenStormCloud]

2. He is on his back, getting beaten, and he forgets that he has a gun?

That is like forgetting that you are wearing a watch when you want to see what time it is.

While carrying a gun I have had only one incident in which things appeared to have the potential to get real bad. I definately remembered that I was armed and made a quick retreat before things got worse. If I was getting beaten that badly I would not have needed to be reminded that I had a gun.

He appears to go around in condition light yellow. Somewhat aware, but still sleepy.

[Atypical Liberal]

11. This is what happens with lack of training and experience.

It does not surprise me at all that when shit got real and he started getting beat up, all he thought about was the fact that he was getting beat up.

This is why training is so important. Otherwise, in a crisis situation, you button up and get tunnel vision.

[sarisataka]

4. The only time I had to actually fight for gun retention

was assisting a LEO who was fighting a drunk. It wasn't even my gun and in a level holster and I was very aware of it. I made very sure to protect his gun side so the officer could focus on restraining the subject.


Zimmerman's story is relatively plausible, however I only believe about 10%. Way too many open why... questions.

[Hoyt]

5. What exactly makes you "feel apprehensive about your situation?"

Have any of those times justified your apprehension?

Are you serious when you say you are ALWAYS thinking about "a potential attacker . . . . . . ambushes, and other traps?"

I'm serious, your trainers did you a disservice. Fortunately, some of us learned early on not to accept a lot of the BS from coaches, trainers, etc.

People carrying guns on "ready" is a real concern. (Yes, I know you don't carry a gun regularly.)

[slackmaster]

7. Your questions make no sense whatsoever, Hoyt. They don't follow logically from what I wrote,

...and frankly they're typical of the prejudicial bullshit you spew on this forum almost every day.

Did you even READ my post?

Do you pay attention to your surroundings? Do you watch out for rattlesnakes when you walk in the brush?

[Hoyt]

8. You are the one who said you are always thinking about attackers, traps, ambushes, etc.

I also wondered about what makes you apprehensive so often. Are their people coming at you with a sword, gun, or some other weapon drawn or what?

Just trying to understand your apprehension.

And I expressed my opinion that if your instructors actually left you with the impression you need to be on "ready" all the time, they are full of crap.

[slackmaster]

9. I'm always thinking about a lot of things, Hoyt. The world is a fun place, but there are hazards.

You seem to have just one thing on your mind.

Just trying to understand your plight.

More prejudicial language. I don't believe you have any interest in trying to understand another person's point of view. You are here only to insult people through innuendo and guilt by association.

My life is good. I feel fine most of the time. At the moment I am home with a rip-roaring sinus headache, for which I have made an appointment with my doctor this afternoon. When I drive there I'll be constantly on the lookout for careless drivers, drunks, twits who are texting behind the wheel, and bliss ninnies who don't seem to understand that lives are at stake.

And I expressed my opinion that if your instructors actually left you with the impression you need to be on "ready" all the time, they are full of crap.

You ought to investigate what I meant by the distinction between Condition White and Condition Yellow. Things like this happen to people who operate on Condition White:

[sarisataka]

10. Simply stated, Condition Yellow

is merely being aware of your surroundings. It is amazing how much life opens up and the things you notice when you observe rather than see.
My wife and I make a game of it, pointing out subtle things, both good and bad, that we would have missed otherwise. It is fun to see who spots what first.

[slackmaster]

14. That's exactly right

Condition Yellow is where any reasonably cautions person functions most of the time.

Not being conscious of the presence of a loaded firearm on one's own body doesn't sound plausible to me. I wonder if Zimmerman's state of mind was affected by the medication he was taking.

[sarisataka]

21. What I had the biggest issue with

Was how he demonstrated the fight for the gun on the video.
What he showed was a grab from the front by a standing opponent. The response would be to pin their arm with yours as he show. It would be very different in a prone struggle. Instead of reaching down, relative to your body they would reach perpendicular. The ground would prevent you from using the trapping move. You would either redirect their grab, counter to their face from the unprotected side and/or roll,pinning the gun between your body and the ground.

His description makes no sense...

[jeepnstein]

3. Tunnel vision is a funny thing.

And he may very well not have been thinking about shooting anyone in this case right up until it was time to shoot.

[Hoyt]

6. Do you honestly think that little weasel would have gotten out of his car without a gun?

And like anyone who straps on a gun before venturing out -- he thought about it because all those boogeymen are out to get him.

Anyone that complacent about a gun, definitely shouldn't own any.

[jeepnstein]

12. You're letting your emotions get the best of you.

Having a bit of experience with going into hostile social situations while armed, I can tell you that quite often the last thing on your mind is shooting someone. The human animal just doesn't roll that way for the most part.

Try to step back and see the facts of the case as we have them so far.

[Hoyt]

13. They still make a choice to put a gun in their pants along with keys, wallet, etc.

So yes, they think about the possibility of shooting someone.

Zimmerman is saying that he didn't even think about his gun, that's bull or he was on drugs that clouded his judgement.

[gejohnston]

15. maybe he thought it fell out while he was prancing among the houses

or frolicking in the street.

[Hoyt]

18. How many holsters did you consider before finding one that holds your gun securely while prancing?

[gejohnston]

22. I don't prance

next question.

[Hoyt]

23. How many holsters did you consider before finding one to hold gun securely while stumbling around?

[gejohnston]

24. don't stumble around either. I'm pretty sure footed in the woods.

[jeepnstein]

16. Or you don't know what you're talking about.

Ever been on your back taking a beating and more worried about weapon retention than shooting someone?

[Hoyt]

17. Do you honestly think he got out of his car without making sure he had his gun?

I'm sure in official law enforcement activities, you are pretty sure you have your "stuff," including cuffs, etc. You might not think about it.

But Zimmerman wasn't a trained policeman on duty -- he was a police wannabe and I'm dang sure he checked his gun when he made the decision to go after the suspicious looking teenager in a hoodie.

And, I see you have bought into the argument that poor ole, innocent Zimmie was getting beaten within an inch of becoming vegetable by the suspicious looking character in a hoodie.

[jeepnstein]

19. Spend some time looking at the facts of the case.

You're sensationalizing what happened that night. The truth is not nearly as exciting as some would have us believe. That's why the police did not arrest Zimmerman on the spot, which they could have easily done if they felt it was necessary.

[Hoyt]

20. I think there were other reasons police didn't arrest him - like didn't care about dead teenager.

Last edited Fri Jun 22, 2012, 11:37 AM - Edit history (1)

After all, he was just a "suspicious looking Black teenager in a hoodie," unarmed I might add. Police probably figured -- incorrectly -- that he got what he deserved. And the SYG mentality played a part.

Fortunately, Zimmie made phone calls that captured some of the scene. Interestingly, it was a phone call that the gun culture crowd here would have deemed ill-advised according to an "advice" thread that was within a few weeks of this killing which advised those who tote guns to be careful with what they say on the phone when calling police after "shooting an unarmed teenager" and the like. Interesting timing I thought.

[safeinOhio]

26. Just have them trade places that night.

The black guy would have never been released to go home. Anyone disagree?

[GreenStormCloud]

27. Can you prove your chqarge of racism against the Sanford PD? N/T

[safeinOhio]

28. Sure, it's been well documented.

http://news.yahoo.com/history-racial-tension-fla-city-blacks-073406601.html

The furor over the failure to charge a neighborhood watch captain for shooting Trayvon Martin to death is the latest episode to inflame racial tensions that have simmered between police and blacks in this Orlando suburb for years. And on Thursday, the department's chief temporarily stepped aside.
Stanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. acknowledged the problems on Friday.
"The issues that have been brought to my attention regarding the black community and the Sanford police department go back 10 years," he said. "There's a lot of work that needs to be done there."
Bonaparte noted Police Chief Bill Lee Jr. took over the department less than a year ago and said he had made improvements but added, "Certainly that has changed as of right now in terms of the relationship between the black community and the Sanford police department."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/14/trayvon-martin-sanford-florida_n_1345868.html
In Sanford, hurt feelings over a string of past incidents involving black victims and white perpetrators have yet to ease, and the shooting rekindled distrust over the way police and courts have handled such cases. Local college students are planning rallies over the Martin case, and this afternoon, ministers from a number of black churches in the area gathered to voice their anger.
“There has been tension between the black community and the police for a long time,” Turner Clayton, president of the local NAACP, told HuffPost Black Voices. “When [Chief Lee] first started, it seemed that things would get better, but with this Martin case, seems we're dealing with the same old Sanford regime.”


Just google "Sanford police racism", you'll find lots of articles about it.

[safeinOhio]

29. Now can you document any case

where a black man shot a white man, claiming self-defense, was allowed to go home by the police.

While you might not see racism in your world, I don't think you are looking.

[GreenStormCloud]

30. That was an easy google.

http://forum.talknightlife.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18748

[safeinOhio]

31. Good work

Exceptions prove the rule.

[GreenStormCloud]

32. My google came up with multiple hits, several stories.

A white person defending against a black criminal is more common, but that is easily explained by the demographics of crime.

Interestingly, in Detroit, most self-defense shooting are black men defending against black criminals.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. Every day I see more stuff that makes me doubt Zimmerman's account.

I agree with the original investigating officer that recommended manslaughter charges the night it happened.