Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumPossible home-invasion thwarted last night, ask me anything.
Midnight, perp trying to jimmy the front door of my house, I drew a loaded handgun, warned perp to leave, called 911, perp kept trying the door, visual on perp through window, mumbling about money to eat, warned perp again, perp apparently heard cops flying up the street, perp left.
I reside in Texas.
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TPaine7
(4,286 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:59 PM - Edit history (1)
You drew a loaded handgun?!!
Whatever for? Were you planning a reckless escalation in order to make yourself feel honorable and courageous?
Did you get all tingly at the thought that you might get to kill someone?
Why didn't you run out the back door?
Edited: Ok, for the newbies...
qazplm
(3,626 posts)I don't even like guns and that's a silly response.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Despite some vile from a deeply narcissistic but recently departed Canadian, we really aren't a bad group.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)
the sarcasm icon, I hope.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)I can tell you actually had a hard time thinking those comments up, funny how that works huh?
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)there was a large "cache" of canned of pork and beans nearby, maybe a case or two, to throw at the perp. If that failed, the handy staff would do the trick, and if that failed, a run out to the garage to disassemble the bicycle so the front tire could be thrown at the perp.
Ain't you learned nothin in this group?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Zero points awarded.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)No paperwork, no lawyers, no talking heads...
You drew a loaded handgun?! Who has time for drawing in a situation like that?
Tejas
(4,759 posts)
pnwest
(3,266 posts)I think everyone should have two. All kidding aside, the only reason I don't have one is cost. It's a complicated issue, with a lot if gray area, and there's nothing new I can add to the debate. But I think you played it exactly right. Have the gun ready, call the cops, warn the guy, give him every chance to change his mind. You didn't shoot thru the door, obviously not tingly at the thought you might have to kill someone as a previous poster suggests.
As a woman walking late at night in the parking lot if my apartment complex in a waitress uniform, obviously carrying tip cash on me, I've felt a need for one.
At home in bed at night, watching news stories about home invasions, and innocent people who felt safe and secure in their own homes being killed...I've felt a need for one.
ileus
(15,396 posts)but when cost is #1, then a high point 9mm (150 bucks) is the answer.
From what I've read they work. They're not stylish, not for conceal carry, they're hard to break down to clean. But they also beat nothing and again from what I've read accurate enough for home defense.
sarisataka
(18,791 posts)but a High Point is better than strong language.
Prior to purchasing a gun for defense, even feeling the need, is take some serious soul-searching and mental war gaming. Can you actually picture yourself killing another human being? Not just shooting but standing over the cooling corpse with police, waiting for your lawyer before giving a complete statement.
Many cannot and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is just realizing you cannot and then a gun is not the correct option. Seek other means of personal protection.
If you can picture such, the go to the old cookie jar method. Determine what gun you like and fits you then each week put your spare change and any other leftover money into that jar until you can afford the gun you like. It gives extra time to consider your choice.
I have found that you can save a lot in a fairly short time.
pnwest
(3,266 posts)I need to be able to point something in the general direction of a blurry silhouette in the doorway, in the dark, and stop him. (or IT, might be a zombie...). Will your recommendation still apply?
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 15, 2012, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)
If you can only see "a blurry silhouette in the doorway", that is generally not enough of a target ID to take a safe or legal shot with a firearm. If you don't have glasses at hand, you need to figure a better method of ensuring you have a good target, and that they are actually a threat that justifies lethal force.
Please fix that situation, then get some training in the legal application of force and self-defense, and use of firearms.
sarisataka
(18,791 posts)And a good flashlight.
You don't need to be able to count nose hairs but you do have to be able to tell if the intruder is a stranger, zombie or a neighbor who noticed your door was ajar and came in to make sure you are ok.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)cbrer
(1,831 posts)I have an internal debate going between lethality and wall penetration.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Sounds good for a doorway/window entry. I'm considering frangible in case I catch him inside. Not much more than me, wife, and critters. But you never know...
sarisataka
(18,791 posts)-Were you in cover while observing the attempted break in?
-did 911 stay on the line until the police arrived?
-do you live alone? If not what did other members of the household do?
No blood shed, best result for all. Congrats 
Tejas
(4,759 posts)-Were you in cover while observing the attempted break in?
Yes, stepped into darkness. Kept my wits about me so as to be ready if he had brought company with him, a percentage of my attention kept an ear out for any noises in the rear of the house (back door etc).
-did 911 stay on the line until the police arrived?
Yes, very professional female, this area of town isn't the best and I could tell it wasn't her first rodeo.
-do you live alone? If not what did other members of the household do?
Alone.
sarisataka
(18,791 posts)Apprehension is nice but not your duty. You kept yourself safe, mission accomplished.
Again,good job
doc03
(35,386 posts)unless you intend to kill someone. What a wasted opertuity!
Tejas
(4,759 posts)that he didn't go ahead and force the door! He could have been famous!
ileus
(15,396 posts)Why? Why ever open the front door if you don't know what/who is there waiting?
The last thing anyone wants it to have to use a firearm against another person. Why expose yourself like that?
Stay behind a locked door try and see what you can with the outdoor lighting and call the cops if you need to. Don't get me wrong be ready, but don't expose yourself to an attack needlessly.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)What's the point?
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Otherwise, what's your point?
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)Installing a siren outside your house would be cheaper and safer than having a loaded handgun in your home.
Clames
(2,038 posts)...for a 1-bedroom apartment. Then monitoring fees. Get a good little handgun for half that cost new. So much for your "cheaper" argument. Safer? Nobody was hurt here so that argument is dust in the wind too.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)Clames
(2,038 posts)Works with most security systems.
Ummm...so how much does that part cost?
Can still by a gun cheaper than $60 btw...
Sealed reed tamper switches prevent crooks from disabling the siren
Does that stop them from just cutting the wires to it....
Oh, the technically challenged make this too easy.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)It does not REQUIRE a security system.
The rest of your argument isn't worth a reply.
I guess for some people the answer will always be a GUN.
Most sane and rational people would feel secure enough with a dog or cheap alarm.
Clames
(2,038 posts)So what is he going to do, hook it up to a battery and wait with a switch inside? The ad states it works with most security systems because guess what? It is designed to work with a security system. Most sane, rational people think these things through. I guess for some people they don't have much else to do than camp next to their door holding a momentary swith for their "alarm system"...
Your next idea?
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)Looks like you just want to irritate the perp(s).
Tejas
(4,759 posts)wtf?
Clames
(2,038 posts)Or maybe they'll figure that anyone with such a sad setup isn't worth stealing from. Playing the pity card...
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Sometimes the police don't get there in time. You are working on the assumption that the police will ALWAYS arrive in time. His gun was plan B, just in case plan A didn't work.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Ah, another that thinks a siren on the wall would protect them and their loved ones from all harm.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)the front door of one's home. Oh wait, that happened 2 blocks away a few months ago. Senior citizen shot BOTH of the perps, one died at the scene, the other made it to surgery and is now up for manslaughter.
{idiocracy ON} Then again, my bad, that's not a fair comparison, there were two perps in that case so my case didn't warrant the safeguard of being armed {idiocracy OFF}.
Xela
(831 posts)Good to hear you are OK.
Xela
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Meiko
(1,076 posts)Well done.
Fredjust
(52 posts)Yeah, I'm not sure where you are, but I had my security system, on a 3 bedroom townhouse mind you, installed for *free* by ADT, and then a $50 a month monitoring fee. That + the siren will ward off criminals, and be far safer to have in the home than a death spewer.
Clames
(2,038 posts)$600 year. So still costs more than a basic new handgun by most major manufactures here. Brinks charges a far lower monitoring fee so it all works out over a period of time. Oh, and how long of a contract did you have to sign to get the free installation? 2 years? 3 years? Longer? "Far safer" is just a matter of opinion since you have no objective evidence to support it.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Thank you for your input but I think you will have a hard time wrapping your head around the idea that perps here in the hood do not care if you have a locomotive horn, much less a siren. WTF is a "townhouse"?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Have lived in them in base housing. I don't recommend it.
http://realestate.about.com/od/sv/g/deftownhse.htm
Fredjust
(52 posts) PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Yech...
Response to Fredjust (Reply #28)
Post removed
Spoonman
(1,761 posts)"the siren will ward off criminals"
Not even half as effective as the sound of chambering a round into 12 gauge shotgun!
If the criminal doesn't run off, what do you do then?
"Hey Mr. Criminal you're suppose to be running away! Don't you hear my alarm? Now play fair and shoo!"
Yea right, that's FAR safer than having a "death spewer" in the home!
My home security goes like this:
Alarm goes off, arm myself, criminal runs away, call 911.
Alarm goes off, arm myself, criminal does not run away, BANG, call 911.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)person looking for food. No, I do not know that for sure -- but a criminal intent on getting in and harming someone would have gotten in.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)He would most likely have been immediatly shot by the OP and therefore prevented from harming anyone.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Truthfully, I don't have a lot of trouble with shooting someone who has broken into one's house. But, I don't think it has to be done every time. I damn sure don't think one should shoot them fleeing; rummaging around in a carport or yard; on one's front porch; or just stealing property.
Nor do I think you guys should view yourself as criminal exterminators, but many of you do with pride.
But, that is in one's home. I'm totally against people carrying guns in public.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)"Nor do I think you guys should view yourself as criminal exterminators, but many of you do with pride."
Wow, just wow, hate your fellow law-abiding citizen that much?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Yeah, it's "legal," but not right or moral.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)Oneka
(653 posts)has fuck-all to do with carrying a swastika around in public. perhaps this link can help you to educate yourself about what happens
when citizens, become mostly stripped of weapons, to defend themselves. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising
When civil society becomes uncivil, those who cant defend themselves, pay the price.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)If you are afraid of our government, or honestly believe some country might invade us, keep a few guns at home. But leave them there until the revolution comes.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Your rationale for inserting swastikas and public carry into a home security thread is.......?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Oneka
(653 posts)For arming citizens in the street. I used the Warsaw uprising to illustrate, to you, what rotten , offensive, analogy you created, comparing gun carrying citizens, to government soldiers, killing innocent, lightly armed citizens. The fact that what I wrote made you LMAO
, speaks volumes
about you.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)immoral. Yet, the gun culture still does it. Worse, they promote arming up, and have become a tool of those who make money of guns -- mostly right wingers.
to be a victim of a moral crusade, whether it's perpetrated by you, or fundies, who operate from the same, tired, playbook.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)lots of things that are legal, are wrong/immoral.
Like lying on a internet web site. You apparently believe that it is right.
So much for your morals.
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Swastikas, public carry.......WTF?
I had some suicidal idiot trying to force my front door, I grace your ignorant drivel with a response and all you can do is TROLL the thread with this crap?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Unfortunately -- with you guys -- you have to be graphic sometimes.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)will assume you'll do what you can to avoid trying to insert swastikas etc into conversation about safety in the home...no mater how desparate you get.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Marengo
(3,477 posts)Other than an association fallacy, it doesn't seem relevant at all.
Would you be so kind as to explain this to me?
Anyway, on to this:
"I bet you said wait to convict Zimmerman though."
I don't recall making such a statement, but advanced middle age memory being what it is...
Perhaps you can provide a link to refresh a creaking memory?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)But every time some carrier shoots someone, they jump in to say we have to reserve judgement until trial. Yet, those who walk down the street with a gun are ready and self trained to convict and execute someone in a split second.
Oneka
(653 posts)has little to do with
to convict and execute someone in a split second.
That distinction being lost on you, gives understanding, to your endless, anti-gun, anti-self defense,anti-rights, screed.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)He has nothing constructive to add, much less a question about the event, so what does his dog tell him to do? His dog tells him to TROLL the thread. Me, I think it is an attention whore thing.
"Look at me, I'll yak about swastikas for no apparent reason."
go figure!
Tejas
(4,759 posts)I won't warn him through the door or anything, I'll let him go ahead and break in. Or better yet, let's do it the Hoyt way, I'll simply open the door and ask if he's in need of some PB&J or tuna salad. Other than that, I'm at a loss but am open to any and all suggestions you might have, no matter how idiotic they may seem.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)You've heard the "police have no responsibility to help" BS to promote more guns. In this case the police done good.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)I take it that the following decisions went the other way in your universe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeShaney_v._Winnebago_County
TPaine7
(4,286 posts)of the most convenient universe.
It makes it impossible for those of us less "gifted" to follow their thinking.
Oneka
(653 posts)it becomes easy to follow their thinking.
http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Spoonman
(1,761 posts)to post up the winning lottery numbers for us?
Oneka
(653 posts)did you indicate to him that you were armed?
ileus
(15,396 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)For her sake and the sake of others, I wish now that I would have stalled him until the cops got there.
Oneka
(653 posts)what you had to do, and did it well. Stalling a potential deadly threat on your own doorstep, while noble, keeps you in danger longer then needs be. That being said i sure hope the police catch this guy and make sure he has no further chance to act on his hunger.
Moses2SandyKoufax
(1,290 posts)I never thought it could happen to me.....
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)TPaine7
(4,286 posts)I've fed homeless guys before, though admittedly not ones trying to break in. I would feel bad for someone that desperate.
(Please note, this is not meant in the slightest degree as a criticism of your behavior. I don't know the first thing about the circumstances, and agree that you had an absolute right to act as you did.)
Tejas
(4,759 posts)You might be surprised what good manners will get you in my neighborhood.
aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)...really they should be congratulating you for taking reasonable precautions of locking the door and calling police immediately and waiting to fire your handgun until the very last minute possible (which ended up not being necessary).
