Trying to decide what to do for your 8 yr olds birthday party? Take them SHOOTING!

[Electric Monk]

"The age limit is eight years old. You have to be tall enough to get above the shooting table,” Prince said.

(snip)

"I am thrilled to add jobs and add to the tax base, and I think gun rights are for everyone," he said.

But some see things in a different way. Dawn McMullan is a mom raising two sons in East Dallas, and she's done some gun control advocacy in the past.

"It makes me very nervous," she said. "I think eight-year-olds, developmentally, can't tell the difference between play and reality sometimes."

"And also to put it in a party or game atmosphere just seems to not respect a gun as much as we should respect guns," she said.

more
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Family-friendly-gun-range-offering-birthday-parties-for-kids-156497115.html

Do you agree with him that "gun rights are for everyone", even eight year olds?

[Warpy]

1. I don't think eight year olds should be unsupervised around guns

but I have no problem with a bunch at a party being taught how to hold and aim a gun and plink cans and bottles or shoot at targets, especially with long guns. They probably had a blast.

I did that at eight. I don't choose to own guns because my sight would make me a menace to my neighbors with one.

Supervision is key. If the kids are taught safety along with the fun of shooting at cans and bottles, it's not a bad thing.

Dummies who have kids and leave guns unsecured are another matter, entirely.

[gejohnston]

2. that seems to be the case

"The age limit is eight years old. You have to be tall enough to get above the shooting table,” Prince said. “They're not gonna be left unattended. Parents are gonna be one-on-one, or if there's not enough parents we'll have range safety officers here to show them how to do it safely."

Dummies who have kids and leave guns unsecured are another matter, entirely.

agree 100 percent, but I would add to keep them secure from the meth head BIL and teabagger uncle (seems everybody has one)

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. Wait a minute, I'll cook up a fresh batch.

[digonswine]

4. This is not a problem-it is good-

I support kids learning (hopefully) responsible gun ownership early.
I had a pump bb gun when quite young and learned early-I went through gun safety at 12. Those lessons never go away.

[tularetom]

5. Gun "rights" are for everyone who is responsible enough to exercise them correctly

Almost any kid will enjoy firing a gun at a target or even a drink can on a fence post. And it's not bad to expose them to it. If they aren't interested you will find that out quickly. If they are it's an activity they can enjoy for a lifetime.

But at age 8 they should not be allowed anywhere near a gun without strict responsible adult supervision present.

[Paul J.D. Jones]

6. Now way

Take them go-carting! This is an incredible story....we live in a world were there is enough violence without introducing guns to kids as young as 8 years old.

[SGMRTDARMY]

7. Why?

As long as they are supervised, whats the problem? My kids learned to shoot at 5yo and and now the grandkids are learning to shoot. If you teach them at a young age about firearm safety and shooting, it takes away the mystique of guns.

[razorman]

8. Cars kill far more people in this country than guns do.

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. Yes, especially with eight-year-olds behind the wheel.

Try bathtubs and swimming pools - it's the standard argument used in the gungeon.

[gejohnston]

11. they may be standard but,

certainly more valid than "oh God, they are teaching kids to be contract killers" but have no problem with video games that make virtual killing and mayhem "fun"

[TheCowsCameHome]

12. This still burns real deep around here....

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/westfield_police_release_name.html

so let's just leave it at that.

eom.

[gejohnston]

18. all due respect but,

sub-machine guns are not .22 rifles. The kid most likely fired it the way often shown on TV and video games. None of the dumb assed adults bothered to make sure that did not happen.

[gejohnston]

9. apples and oranges

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 09:02 AM - Edit history (1)

I got my first gun when I was eight. Violence is not caused by teaching kids how to shoot guns or bows. Kids who take up shooting sports, or any other sport or martial arts, are less likely to join gangs.

http://www.4-hshootingsports.org/Kids%27N%27Guns.php
You need to travel Europe more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%BCtzenfest
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/articles/swiss_teen_rifle_festival.html

BTW, shooting is greener
http://greenanswers.com/q/33169/nature-recreation/all-terrain-vehicles/how-much-pollution-do-go-carts-bo

[PavePusher]

34. "Violence is caused by teaching kids how to shoot guns or bows."?????

Missing a word or two in there?

[gejohnston]

46. ADD kicking in again

thanks.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. Welcome to DU --- go-carts because they are so safe?

Go-Kart Injuries Common and Serious

Parents who are considering buying go-karts for their children this holiday season beware: children who are hospitalized because of go-cart accidents require an average hospital stay of about five days, according to a new study.

Furthermore, more than half of the children hospitalized required at least one operation and almost a third required two or more operations.

"Many parents don't seem to be aware of the potential dangers of private go-karts," said David Cline, an emergency medicine specialist at Wake Forest University Baptists Medical Center and one of the study researchers. "Many of these injuries were severe, and all children required follow-up care after they left the hospital."

The information on go-cart injuries was part of a larger study of 160 children ages 16 and under who were admitted to the hospital from April 1998 to April 2003 as a result of injuries from all-terrain vehicles, go-carts, mini-bikes and golf carts.

While public go-cart tracks have safety restrictions, privately owned go-carts are largely unregulated. According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, more than 10,000 go-cart injuries to children 15 and younger occur each year.

more at link:
http://www.wainjurylaw.com/library/gocart-accidents-serious-injuries-or-death-children-washington-attorney-in-seattle-bellevue-taco.cfm

[Hoyt]

16. Need to teach em young because gun culture wants everyone armed in the future and standing their

ground with their carry weapons.

I agree it's stupid.

[SGMRTDARMY]

20. Your right

need to teach them young but not for the reasons you think.
If you teach children about gun safety and how to shoot, it takes away the mystique of guns.

[Hoyt]

21. As I've said before, show them videos of people with bullet holes in themgrieving relatives, blood

etc., if you really want to teach them something about guns.

Also show them some of the yahoos who love guns while you are at it.

[SGMRTDARMY]

22. That has what to do with firearm safety?

You teach them to respect not fear firearms.

C'mon, get real and stop posting such idiotic nonsense.

[Hoyt]

24. I still remember the gory auto wrecks they showed us in driver training. It worked.

You want to educate kids on guns by leaving out the gore and grieving relatives? Figures.

[SGMRTDARMY]

26. I well remember those videos also

Notice they don't show anymore in schools. Wonder why that is?
Why make kids afraid of firearms instead of teaching them to respect them?
But I forgot, that doesn't fit your agenda.

Your just to precious.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

54. Are you implying that you quit driving?

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 11:05 AM - Edit history (1)

I am trying to understand this analogy....

gruesome auto wreck videos equate to quitting driving

as to

gruesome gunshot videos equate to stop shooting guns


am I understanding your post correctly? is this the point you are trying to make AND are you saying that you do NOT drive thanks to viewing those videos?



I think that One should be exposed to both the very best and the very worst of things in order that they may make an informed and educated decision. I have no issue with those videos being shown to Eight year olds. Children all over the world are exposed to much worse, in real life, on a daily basis.

[ellisonz]

61. "it takes away the mystique of guns."

I don't know about that, seems like it often just endears them even more. They become life-long members of the "gun culture." You're* only partially correct if correct at all on that one.

[gejohnston]

63. he said mystique, not interest.

I don't know about that, seems like it often just endears them even more.

Not always. My son, yes. My daughter, no. She does like archery. The difference for her is the noise, and that she views archery as more challenging.

They become life-long members of the "gun culture."

Why is that a bad thing? I'm guessing this study provides the answer.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235209000932

[BiggJawn]

29. "Go-Carts"?

Maybe 4-wheel ATVs?

We've had more ATV deaths in this part of the state this year than gun deaths, and that includes suicides.

I'd rather take an 8-y-o shooting. It's safer.

[PavePusher]

33. "Guns" are not synonomous with "violence"....

but I'm sure you knew that. Stop making it sound like their training up a bunch of psychotic killers.

[rrneck]

13. Got my first gun when I was six. nt

[Hoyt]

15. Bunch of right wingers trying to make a buck off gun lovers -- no matter how young.

[SGMRTDARMY]

17. And you know their political affiliation how?

I sure as hell don't mind paying for range time to keep my shooting skills honed, seems like a good investment. I even take the grandkids every now and then.

[Hoyt]

23. If they're making money off guns and hooking young kids on them - they are right wing and

a threat to society. Plus, they are no role model for kids.

[SGMRTDARMY]

25. I call bullshit

you don't know the political affiliation of every range owner in the country. Do tell us how someone operating a legitimate business is a threat to society?

I taught firearms shooting and safety to my kids and grandkids, are you saying I'm not a role model to them?

[ileus]

27. bad rude gun toter baser owner influence...guns are evil

And they kill people.

And all gun owners are
Hateful
rude
impolite and something else....



Gosh I forgot what my rant was now.

[Hoyt]

32. Pandering to those obsessed with lethal weapons, is hardly a "legitimate" business.

Especially when trying to turn 8 year olds into gun addicts.

[PavePusher]

35. The folks at the link below....

http://www.usashooting.org/12-the-team/usashootingteam/nationalteam

...would probably tell you to GFY, but I'm sure they don't think you are worth their scorn.

[Hoyt]

37. Looks like a bunch of home schooled kids to me.

At least officially they aren't blasting awayvat at silhouette targets.

[friendly_iconoclast]

40. Don't lose your cool, amigo- the Gungeon has always attracted wowsers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wowser

The Australian writer C.J. Dennis defined it thus: 'Wowser: an ineffably pious person who mistakes this world for a penitentiary and himself for a warder'.

[ileus]

49. Another jury made up of antis no doubt....what a joke the "jury system" is

[Hoyt]

52. Ileus -- there are a whole lot of "antis" on DU and elsewhere. Especially with guns in public.

Personally, Pave's post is OK with me.

[ileus]

60. Only people within this group are worthy to judge those here.

Every time I see a post hidden here (pro or anti) I know a bunch of knee jerkers have been summoned to judge something they don't understand.

This isn't GD where people make comments meant to offend to posters they don't know. We're a big happy family here, and the last thing we need are outsiders trying to force their way of thinking on us.

[beevul]

41. Really? You can identify homeschooled kids by looking at them?

How bigoted of you.

[SGMRTDARMY]

50. Another of your many talents?

So now you can tell just by looking at a pic what kind of kids they are? Project much?
And so what if they are home schooled? You say that as if its a bad thing. I bet you didn't know that most states have specific guidelines parents have to follow for home schooling.
Your ignorance on home schooling is showing through.

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. On the contrary- tell the little ones they're practicing to kill fascists:

Though these machines were a lot more effective:

[SGMRTDARMY]

48. More nonsense from you

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 09:52 AM - Edit history (1)

If not a legitimate businesss, then why are they issued business licenses? Why are they allowed to stay in business?
Who is trying to turn 8yo's into gun addicts? Why not take your kids/grandkids to the range for a fun and informative lesson on the safe handling of firearms? Or would you rather kids not learn to respect firearms?
I can tell you that taking your kids/grandkids to the range for a fun afternoon of shooting is a satisfying experience and also a bonding experience. Are you against that too? Or is it just because firearms are involved?

Do you actually believe the nonsense you post?

[BiggJawn]

31. I'd rather have the kiddies learn about guns...

... from the instructor down at the range than from the 16-y-o dropout down the street with the beat-up Glock with the serial number scratched out stuffed down his pants.

[slackmaster]

56. Teaching kids how to handle weapons safely is a bad thing, if you make money while doing it

That seems to be Hoyt's position here.

[ileus]

19. Shooting is a great way to spend a birthday...just ask my 9 or 7 year olds.

I bought my 7yo a 7mm-08 deer rifle last year for his birthday.

I'm thinking my soon to be 10yo deserves a 22lr caliber AR....She'll love it.

[oneshooter]

28. All three of my sons started at age 5 with the same "Red Ryder"bb gun

As the grew and developed greater muscle and hand/eye control they were allowed, under the supervision of myself or my Loving Wife, to shoot 22 rimfire rifles. At eight they were shooting a local "junior" match. consisting of 22RF at 50yds, bench rest w/peep sights only. We always had spare rifles at the matches so that all could compete, irregardless of financial abilities.
At age 13 they each received a AR-15 rifle as a gift from me. I build them, and they help, with 20" HBAR Krieger bbls, Timney 2 stage triggers, 223cal, match grade A2 uppers, and 5 position stock.
Our youngest got his last Christmas. It sits in one of my safes alongside the Red Ryder BB gun.
I would trust ANY of my sons with ANY rifle, pistol, or shotgun a hell of a lot more than I would trust Hoyt with the BB gun.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[BiggJawn]

30. "You'll shoot your Eye out, Hoyt..."

[PavePusher]

36. Oooooo, will you adopt me?? 8>) n/t

[oneshooter]

57. Let me ask my Loving Wife..........................................................................

......................................................................................................... no.

[krispos42]

42. This reminds me...

...I need to pick up a kid-sized rifle for my son.

[Meiko]

44. Have you seen the

pink ones for the young ladies? A friend of mine bought one for his daughter and she loved it.

[krispos42]

45. Well, this isn't really the Group for this kind of discussion

But yeah, I've seen them.

[DonP]

68. Just bought a Youth Rifle

A Savage Cub with their Accutrigger set up. Lightweight, short pull on the wood stock.

Comes with a nice peep sight and you can add a scope later when they have the basics down.

.22 single shot for S, L or LR, so it's ultra cheap to shoot.

I think they call it something else now, not the Cub anymore, but it's their Youth Rifle and goes for around $125 or so.

Much better made than the Cricket models.

[Meiko]

43. I taught both my sons

firearms safety at an early age, they were around 9 or 10 I think. Both of them still enjoy shooting even today. I have always had a large collection of guns including class 3 and the boys shot them all. They were well versed in firearms and especially the safety aspect of handling guns. By being around guns and being allowed to handle, clean and shoot guns a certain amount of curiosity went away. They knew what guns were and how dangerous they could be. They also knew that an accident with one was usually fatal. I never had any trouble with either one of them when it came to guns.

A parent needs to know their children well enough to know when they are ready to learn about guns. Not all 8 year olds are the same and levels of maturity are different. When the kids are mature enough I see no reason they should not be taught about guns, regardless if the parents own guns or not. Gun safety is good knowledge for everyone. I have often thought that gun safety should be taught in the schools, perhaps in conjunction with the health classes that are provided. I mean if a child is old enough to learn about condoms they are certainly old enough to learn about the safety issues involving guns.

The argument that gun rights are for everyone has already been decided in the courts. Convicted felons for example have no right to gun ownership. I think kids have the inherent right to own guns but the right cannot be exercised until a certain age is reached, fair enough.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

47. I do, however, see a difference

In teaching your own kid gun responsibility, or letting your kid attend a birthday party at a shooting range. Somehow gun responsibility and "gun shooting party" with cake and ice cream just doesn't seem like a match made in heaven.

Can we at least agree that if your kid is going to a party like this, that at least one parent should be required to attend as well?

[gejohnston]

51. parents were there as well as range masters

one parent or range master for each kid.

Somehow gun responsibility and "gun shooting party" with cake and ice cream just doesn't seem like a match made in heaven.

During the shooing part, the emphasis goes from party to responsibility. The kids can pick up on the difference quickly. All it takes is the instructor to fire the appropriate round at a watermelon down range.

[Atypical Liberal]

59. As GE said, it goes from "party" to "serious" in a heartbeat.

I used to shoot at Boy Scout Camp. There was lots of goofing around and play at camp. But not on the firing line.

Somehow gun responsibility and "gun shooting party" with cake and ice cream just doesn't seem like a match made in heaven.

The implication here is that the kids are sitting at a table eating cake and ice cream and then pick up a gun to fire across the table to blow out the candles.

This is not the way I would imagine such events go.

Here's an example: My daughter's friend takes karate. She had her birthday party at her karate studio. Part of the party was all her friends got to go into the dojo and do karate stuff. This was entirely separate from the cake, ice cream, pizza, and presents that happened up front in the lobby area.

[aikoaiko]

53. Supervised one-on-one by parents and range officers at an indoor range w 22lr is fine.

I would be comfortable with my seven year old doing this with 22 lr rifles (single shot bolt rifles like a Henry Youth or Cricket).

I borrowed this pic from web and it shows how the two youth rifles are much smaller than that venerable Ruger 10/22. Part of safe gun use with kids is making sure the rifles fit appropriately.

I would avoid handguns until I did a lot of safety training.

[IMG][/IMG]

[slackmaster]

55. My brother was introduced to shooting at age six. I was ten.

Some kids are capable at that age, some are not. The most important thing IMO is to get instruction from a competent adult who has the judgement to determine what is appropriate for the child.

My brother and I were instructed by our stepfather, a World War II veteran (Navy) who grew up on a farm and learned to shoot while very young, for pest control and subsistence. He learned to be a very good shot out of necessity. He spent his last years in the Navy, in the early 1950s, teaching Radio Man school and Basic Rifle.

[Atypical Liberal]

58. There is nothing wrong with taking an 8-year-old shooting.

I learned to shoot around 8 years old. My daughter shot my .44 1851 Navy when she was 4, with me helping her hold it.

I got my first firearm, a Ruger 10/22, when I was about 10.

My daughter has a friend in kindergarten who is taking Karate. There are many youth activities for archery.

There is nothing wrong with teaching these kinds of activities to children. In fact, I believe they are highly beneficial. They teach safety, respect, responsibility, discipline, motor control, teamwork, and sportsmanship.

The only reason people are upset about these kinds of activities is they equate learning to shoot guns with learning violence, and this is not the case. One of the huge things they drive home in children karate classes is that what you are learning is for defense and never offense.

[Logical]

64. Good points about Karate! n-t

[ellisonz]

62. "You takes your chances"

[Remmah2]

65. "You'll shoot your eye out."

nt

[oneshooter]

67. Chances of what? n/a

[AtheistCrusader]

66. Properly supervised, perfectly fine.

My parents taught me a bit younger than that, single-shot break-action .22 rifle. Not a super big deal, beyond teaching me a considerable respect for firearms.