Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumOxfam: Sale of ammunition 'must be regulated'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18269837Humanitarian charity Oxfam has launched a new campaign to call for the regulation of the sale of ammunition around the world. It comes ahead of a United Nations summit in July on bringing in a new arms trade treaty to regulate the sale of arms. Oxfam is arguing that any treaty must also regulate ammunition trade or the treaty "doesn't make sense". But a number of nations, including the US and China, oppose such a move.
Egypt, Syria, Russia, Iran, Venezuela and several other countries are also against including ammunition trade in any final treaty, arguing that it will be too difficult to monitor. In a new report, Oxfam found that the global ammunitions industry for small arms and light weapons is worth $4.3bn (£2.78bn), much more than the trade in the weapons themselves, with 12 billion bullets produced a year.
Anna Macdonald, head of arms control at the charity, said: "A gun without a bullet is a very large metal stick, basically. Ammunition is literally the fuel of conflict. "The trade in ammunition is lucrative, but while the monetary cost of production is low, the price paid in human lives for the trade in ammunition is incalculable."
The parameters of the new treaty, if is is passed, will be worked at a month-long UN conference in July between arms companies, governments and aid agencies. A draft treaty which would ban all weapons sales to countries that fail to meet various human rights criteria has already been provisionally agreed to by 153 counties. The aim is for it to bring various international laws governing the sale of arms into one legally-binding treaty.
Oxfam says 12 billion bullets are produced each year - almost two for every person in the world
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Only two a year? Well, I guess I have my "fair share" of them at this point, with (roughly) 17,500 years of production in my inventory at this time!
safeinOhio
(32,736 posts)Ever think about going on the show Hoarders.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)In any case, all the ammo fits in a couple of closets.
The guns? Not so much...
safeinOhio
(32,736 posts)does little to sway anyone that is not a gun extremest. Perhaps you post this stuff just to piss off all the others.
Lets see, you post here about 9 times per day, average for the last 90 days. You have about 90 guns, must be worth at least 30 to 40 grand. 35,000 rounds of bullets, must be at least another 4 or 5 grand. You and the other folks that have posted, all think this is cool, and yet none of you can afford 5 bucks to support this forum that you most likely, by post count, spend more time on than at the range. Of course this doesn't even count your dues to the NRA.
Hint, if you want to convince others you are democrats and not gun nuts, buy a star and quit bragging about your vast arsenals.
I'm not anti-gun. I own about 8 guns and have 400 rounds of 22s on hand, that's what I shoot at the range and another 200 rounds of other. I have a CCW and support the right for legal gun owners to buy guns and carry them. I also support better training for CCW permits and registration of handguns, along with mandatory background checks on all handgun sales, including private sales. I also post on many topics that relate to liberal causes. I'm semi-retired on a fixed income and take personal responsibility for supporting forums that I use, like this one, with my donations.
I think I can influence more people to accept gun ownership, which goes a long way to maintaining our gun rights, than those that post this kind of comment. You do a disservice to the gun cause and only cause others to question people that own guns.
aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)How utterly fucking embarrassing for you that you don't realize it.
Disagree with the content of his post, but don't pull this "you must pay to play" bullshit.
SGMRTDARMY
(599 posts)not buying a star don't mean jack and his constant battering of gun owners tells us just where he really stands. I just laugh and move on.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)I'm a "Star-Belly Sneetch", does that give ME more street cred than anybody else?
Shame on you for trying to put Grovel-Bot out of a job.
backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)I've had up to 50k rounds at once before.It's no big deal.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 2, 2012, 02:11 PM - Edit history (2)
(just for the record, I prefer to invest in high-grade curio & relic pistols, so the collection is worth more like $75 grand )
Hint, if you want to convince others you are democrats and not gun nuts,
Who says you can't be both?
buy a star and quit bragging about your vast arsenals.
I don't care how you spend your money. Why do you care how I spend mine?
I also post on many topics that relate to liberal causes.
As do I. Only 25% of my posts are in this group; I mostly post in GD. On the other hand, I see that 52% of your posts are in this group, so if anyone is spending the majority of their posting time obsessing with guns, it's not me...!
I also support...registration of handguns, along with mandatory background checks on all handgun sales, including private sales.
How nice for you! I support none of those. It's none of The State's business.
I think I can influence more people to accept gun ownership, which goes a long way to maintaining our gun rights, than those that post this kind of comment. You do a disservice to the gun cause and only cause others to question people that own guns.
Influence anti-gun people on this forum to be more accepting of gun rights?
I'm sure Hoyt and the late, unlamented Iverglas will be coming around to the pro-gun rights side any day now...
No one here is changing minds and influencing people. While there may be the extremely rare exceptions, all the millions of posts on this site which address politics do is either:
a) reinforce long-held opinions ("Conservatives suck!" "Ditto!" , or
b) allow people to engage in confrontational arguments that sway neither side ("Guns are horrible, ban 'em!" "Out of my cold dead hands, you blankety-blank..."
Granted, if you include the Lounge, another option appears.
c) "Here's a picture of a funny cat." "LOL!"
SGMRTDARMY
(599 posts)Its none of his damned business what we spend our money on, I myself have a collection worth appox. $100,000, this includes ammo, mags., and accessories.
I find his post very disturbing and he shoud modify it.
safeinOhio
(32,736 posts)feel free to report it and send it to a jury.
Thank everyone for their opinion.
I'm happy to help provide this forum for all of you rich folks. It is a privilege and an honor to do so.
SGMRTDARMY
(599 posts)I prefer for all to see the posts.
Simo 1939_1940
(768 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)By world standards, granted...but certainly not by U.S. standards.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I swear, I had to even look up the reference, and then I giggled at the childish nature of the infatuation with whatever meme-value it had. I swear, if I didn't know any better, I would say some of you haven't progressed much beyond the age of dolls and action figures...
(Note to jurors: it's true, you'll see them bust this one out every time they try to distort the underpinnings of a factual analysis.)
P.S. Rob Reiner would laugh so hard he would have a heart attack if he saw his film being used in this way.
Clames
(2,038 posts)...guess you don't get out too much
Given some of the tantrums and insults you display pretty much removes any doubt that dolls, action figures and coloring books make up a large part of your activities away from DU.
at the preemptive jury instructions. Those didn't help iverglas. The irony isn't lost on you I hope.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...from a 1987 children's movie. I do interact with children often so yeah I play with kids toys with kids. What's your excuse? Replace your stuffed animal collection with guns?
How are you with small animals?
P.S. Iverglas wasn't banned for anything having to do with the Gungeon. In fact, the vast majority of DU applauds her efforts. Why are you here again?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Clames
(2,038 posts)...your aren't s much swinging as blindly flailing...
I'm great with animals small and large too. What you are trying to insinuate just proves you really have no lower bounds when it comes to childish insults.
PS: I didn't say iverglas was banned for anything dealing with this group in particular. She did often attempt to instruct jurors in a preemptive manner. Shouldn't have to do that unless you have problems keeping to a civil discussion.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)So, if enough people "applaud... efforts", we can say that 2+3=4, amIright?
Clames
(2,038 posts)...the 1000+ post thread applauding her removal from DU. Majority spoke and her "efforts" are now old news and their absence is not much lamented..
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Mirror, mirror, on the wall....
, indeed.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)SGMRTDARMY
(599 posts)I live on my military pension.
Its taken me years to acquire the firearm collection I have today.
The only thing I'm rich in is my life experiences, so take your little snarky remarks elsewhere please.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)safeinOhio
(32,736 posts)Feel free to post your thoughts. Thank God someone is here to pay for this site so you may do so. I'm more than happy to help supply you with the this forum. I would ask those that use it and do have the funds to help keep it going. I too am retired and do work a couple of days at a week at a minimum wage job to pay for my extras in life. I'm glad my donation helps you have a place to post. This is not a snarky remark, it is heart felt, and because I help support this place, I feel no need to take my comments anywhere else.
Response to safeinOhio (Reply #20)
SGMRTDARMY This message was self-deleted by its author.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)So, how much of this sites finances come through "donations" and how much via the ad banners?
Seems to me the biggest perk, aside from the bragging, would be the absence of the ads... or do you still get them?
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)The money DU gets from ads spends just as well as donation money.
Meiko
(1,076 posts)Simo 1939_1940
(768 posts)Ahhhh.......so now it's clear that petty jealousy is at play here.
Thanks for clearing that up!
safeinOhio
(32,736 posts)Class warfare has started.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)can I interest you in some tanks?
http://www.tanksforsale.co.uk/
safeinOhio
(32,736 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)you have good taste in pistols. I love Walthers. Found a TPH at a gun show last month. That is not your CCW is it?
safeinOhio
(32,736 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)interesting choice.
safeinOhio
(32,736 posts)than the large gun you don't have. FBI statistic show most gun fights are at 7 feet away and only about 10% of those six shots fired hit a target. My little pea shooters are very fast and accurate. If I can get off a couple of shots, I have a good chance of escaping before I am shot.
The only time I have fired a gun in self-defense was against a 100 lb feral rottweiler. One shot in the shoulder and it howled a death scream, turned and ran away. That proved to me you can put a world of hurt on with a 22 or 32. On my person, I never carry anything larger. My little Seecamp can be well hidden wearing tight running shorts and a tank top. A 45, not so much.
My philosophy of self-defense is to get away as fast and safely as possible. But that is just me. I fear dogs more than people. I've had guns pulled on me a few times while I was unarmed and managed to be either quicker or talk my way out. There is not much talking to a mad dog. A small caliber is less likely to kill anyone in the cross fire too.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)My FIL carried a Beretta Tomcat. I would use a smaller .22 like the TPH, if I were to use a .22. Seecamps are good guns, just rare and expensive. .32s were common police rounds at one time. IIRC, West Germany used Walther PPs in .32 until the the 1970s when they switched to a 9mm. Instead of destroying them, they sold them on the commercial market. Interarms bought some and importing them to the US. I remember that only because the number of Walther PPs showing up in pawn shops in my hometown.
My theory of self-defense is to what is tactically the best thing to do at the time. Not something I never put much thought in mostly because I have either lead a charmed life or just do a good job of avoiding and deterring even in places like Manila.
If I were to get a CCW, I would go for either .32 or .380. Problem with the latter is that it is too popular and was impossible to find during the great ammo shortage. The few I could find was being sold by gouging assholes. My HSc stayed home from the range.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Clames
(2,038 posts)...and a Seecamp doesn't exactly put you in with the paupers. In fact, the current asking price for a LWS 380 would put one in the market for a H&K.
aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Clames
(2,038 posts)...and no star by their name. Do you actually have a point with that? I influence people into gun ownership quite regularly. I do so by training them. I do so by discussion of laws governing CCW permits and regulations. I do so by discussing actual common sense measures that would impact crime and not on laws that do nothing but add burden to people looking to exercise a Constitutional right.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)news to me. Oh wait... you mean 5 bucks per month .... yeah, right.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Please state exactly what limits are O.K., and what is not, so we can all march in step.
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)Terminology fail.
"Bullets" without powder, primer, case are inert.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)The volume discounts starting kicking in around there.
mvccd1000
(1,534 posts)... but it's easy to go through 500 rounds in a single morning of plinking out in the desert. If you happen to like to go more than once a week, I can see buying ammo by the case, especially if you can avoid paying retail prices by doing so.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Anyone who buys in bulk is a whacko, I'm sure....
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...one of those "prepper" types.
petronius
(26,606 posts)petronius
(26,606 posts)And who mentioned MREs?
Seriously, if you don't perceive the vast gulf between cost-effective bulk buying and any sort of clinically-defined hoarding, then you should cut up both your Costco card and your membership in the Amateur Internet Psychiatrist Club...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Hey you mentioned non-perishable foods...
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)sounds like it. Some preppers are left wing nuts. Besides, if you live near the coast, non-perishables and water is a good thing to have around during hurricane season.
petronius
(26,606 posts)And it still looks likes you called another DUer a prepper = RW nut. not cool...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...and motives thereof.
How else would you describe someone with enough ammunition to wage a small scale guerrilla war?
petronius
(26,606 posts)saved some money in a common and rational way, but now we're talking about your biases, amateur diagnoses, and unprovoked personal attacks on that DUer.
Why don't you just admit to your petty and knee-jerk attempt to insult a gun-ownig DUer, and apologize for the disruption?
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...a fuck-ton of ammunition and non-perishable food supply screams right-wing prepper.
Also, that's not frugal, that's nutty, you're buying shit you don't need barring the end of civilization.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)
Where did he say anything about "end of the world Mad Max stuff?" Are you saying NOAA and FEMA are crazy right wing sites?
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/prepare/ready.php
http://www.ready.gov/basic-disaster-supplies-kit
buying stuff you are going to use in bulk is not hoarding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding
500 rounds a fucking ton? Get fucking real. For me, that is about four or five trips to the range. I bought artsy canisters of Remington .22 rounds. Each canister had paintings by Fredrick Remington. The complete set of four had about 10K rounds.
Here is a question, where do you get that preppers are mostly right wing? What if they were mostly left wing? Why does it matter where they fit on the oversimplified and mostly imaginary left/right scale? Just because I follow NOAA's and my state government's advise on preparing for hurricanes (or tornado when I was in Kansas) does not mean I am expecting to enjoy life in a nuclear wasteland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalism
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)petronius
(26,606 posts)Why are you so intent on doubling- and tripling-down in your personal attacks against another DUer (RW, "nutty", preparing for guerrilla war)?
Aside from your willful disregard for courtesy and civil discourse, all you're really demonstrating is your ignorance of recreational shooting and a strange incomprehension of basic shopping strategies...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)petronius
(26,606 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)petronius
(26,606 posts)preparing for a guerrilla war, and suffering from a mental illness - all in this one short sub-thread. And you honestly don't see how your behavior is seriously inappropriate?
(Not to mention that question about small animals you posted up thread - I'm not sure what to make of that.)
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Good Day Mr. Manners
Clames
(2,038 posts)Don't think he'll be long following a recently departed DU'er. Only so much tolerance for making DU suck these days...
ileus
(15,396 posts)Get with the program...real democrats don't believe in the 2A.
Clames
(2,038 posts)Chalk up another strike for slugger.
You are insulting people in an ignorant and all to obvious way. Coming from you that isn't terribly surprising but calling those who even take relatively small steps towards emergency preparedness right wing nuts is a new low. Pity you are so ignorant of the efforts of those who are trying to make sure events like Katrina and Joplin cause minimal human suffering. Disgusting
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Yeah clearly the problem in those cases was an insufficient supply of arms and ammunition to the populace -
BTW if you haven't noticed - this is a Democratic board - rational emergency preparedness is not 35,000 rounds of ammunition.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)That aside, the 35K rounds could be a couple of boxes for a large and diverse collection. OTOH, maybe getting a great deal of something you are going to use at the range anyway.
Clames
(2,038 posts)..you are not an authority on all things Democratic. Not even close
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Each time I purchase a gun, I like to get 300 to 400 rounds to go with it.
On a side note, it is interesting how often we see you attack the character of a poster rather than his or her arguments. That's normally indicative of someone who has no logical support for their position.
And on with that, I'll have to bow out of the conversation for a while. Having a partial nephrectomy (kidney removal) does put a bit of a crimp in one's internet coversations, and pre-op begins tomorrow morning.
I barely have time to order a few hundred rounds of 7.65x22 French Long for the 1935A (it's Nazi-marked in 97%!) that showed up at my door shortly before I flew out here to Cleveland Clinic for my operation. Having a C&R FFL is fun!
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Back home, things went well. Now for post-op recovery. Whee....
petronius
(26,606 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)As for being painless, I can now attest that morphine is great. Didn't feel a thing until they took it away...now I'm home and making do with percoset.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)...that you won't feel up to shooting magnum rifles for a few days?
Glad everything went well, here's to a smooth recovery...
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)The No. 5 Mk 1 Jungle Carbine and M44 M-N carbine are going to continue gathering dust for a while...I might be up to shooting my Walther PPK, but only if I use the 4mm conversion kit. .32 ACP is a bit too much for me to handle right now!
petronius
(26,606 posts)oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Start slow, maybe a nice 22 pistol, slow fire. Then work your way up to a 32cal then a 38. Got to get into shape before tackeling the larger ones.
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Yesterday was the first day that I went most of the day without taking a percoset...a 15" incision takes a while to heal!
As for pistols, I still haven't shot my new Ruger Mk III, and it should be a hoot to fire with the silencer I got got for it ("only" 7 months for the paperwork to clear on that...). Maybe in a couple of weeks.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)I don't see it in the OP but could very well have missed it there or elsewhere in the thread.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)Can of M-2 HXP and 2 SPAM cans of 7.62X54 on the way... Another brick of .22, some more .45 ACP...
And with all these freakin' cannibals running around loose, maybe I should get some of that Zombie Max stuff...
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)$98 for a can of 200 loose. Most of it mid-70's.
I'm 1/2 way through my first can full.
www.odcmp.org
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)I'm seriously considering getting some, and I don't even have a Garand yet. But it should work well in my Eddystone, if I ever get it cleaned up and the sights fixed...
BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)Hard to say. It loads, it goes "BANG!" it cycles the action... It will work in any .30-06 arm.
As to accuracy, I think it's more accurate than I am.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)very accurate ammo. I currently have only 3 crates of it and am looking to restock. It is available,or was, in both 8rd Garand clips or 5rd strippers.
Great ammo for the price.
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Tejas
(4,759 posts)It was $10/50 in their Monarch brand, now only Gander Mountain has Blazer at $27/50. Are Academy and Dander Mountain in cahoots? Is it a plot to price small arms owners out of the market?