Another Zimmerman-Martin like case in North Carolina?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

Last edited Tue Apr 17, 2012, 01:27 AM - Edit history (1)

That is what some are claiming in a event Sunday night. Residents came home very early in the AM and found two intruders in their residence. Both intruders were killed. Right now the police are indicating no charges. The dead were both African-American males, the residents purportedly white, with two being active duty Marines. Also like the Zimmerman case, a lot of the data has not yet been released.


http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/Jacksonville_Police_Two_Intruders_Shot_And_Killed_147496165.html

[sarisataka]

1. So different in so many ways

Inside the home, no syg issues.
Both have criminal records....

[richmwill]

2. No, it's not

As the above poster said- once inside the residence, it's a completely different story.

[HooptieWagon]

3. Who is Miller?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. A speech recognition/spell checker error that got past me (again)

Fixed

[dballance]

4. Completely Different from Zimmerman-Martin

The perps were inside the house that they certainly had not been invited into and attacked them when they entered according to the news report at the link. This sounds like the type of situation that is legitimate self-defense.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. I brought this up since it too is being cited as another example of bad laws

Last edited Tue Apr 17, 2012, 10:33 AM - Edit history (1)

protecting murderers. It has not gotten a lot of national press.

This example is one of Castle Doctrine, a more aggressive but narrower kind of SYG. However, with a few notable exceptions, many DUers have no problem with Castle Doctrine.

It will be very interesting to see if this goes national and what gets said.

[GreenStormCloud]

8. It will be used as a great example of Castle Doctrine.

If the anti-gunners try to use this one against Castle Doctrine they will get rotten egg on their faces.

The dead burglars both have extensive criminal records, one of them for violent assaults.

The residents are active duty Marines.

So you have a couple of violent druggies attacking Marines in the Marines' own residence and they end up dead for their efforts. Public sympathies will be with the Marines.

[brush]

7. Another zimmerman/Martin-like case?

How are the available facts on this case anything like zimmerman/Martin? The two men killed were black is about the only thing similar. The circumstances; there seems to be a crime being committed (not the case with the Martin incident except for zimmerman's crime, there were 2 killed and 3 (maybe one, maybe two) that did the killing, they were Marines not a wannabe cop/neighborhood watch guy, the incident, at least reportedly, happened in their home where a crime was being committed by the two that were killed. How is this case similar? The poster really seems to be reaching.

[Meiko]

9. Totally different

Justified shooting.

[MrDiaz]

10. justified

I would of done the same thing had I come home and two people i did not know were in my home, and then proceeded to attack me.

[jpak]

22. Were they armed? Or just black?

[gejohnston]

23. the important thing

Police say according to the victims, as the three residents entered the house they were attacked by two suspects who were inside.

[rl6214]

24. There ya go, playing the race card again.

And what makes you think that matters at all? If you are attacked inside your own home do you look to see what their race is before you defend yourself?

[slackmaster]

26. Neither question has any relevance as to the legality of the shooting

But I think you already knew that.

[AH1Apache]

27. What the fuck difference does it make if they were armed or black?

The point is that when the 3 Marines returned home, they were attacked by the 2 dirtbags who were committing a felony. They died because they had illegally entered someone else's domicile and then to top it off, they attack 3 Marines who more than likely have combat tours under their belts. How fucking stupid can you be?

Your obvious vile, biased hatred for gun owners is just beyond the pale.

[GreenStormCloud]

28. Yes, they were armed. They shot at the Marines. N/T

[MrDiaz]

31. does not matter

Whoever they were they were in a home in which they had no business being in, and proceeded to attack the people who lived there when they got there. But good try at making this a race issue. Try to put yourself in their position, What would you do if you came home and two guys were in your home and then they attacked you?

[Lizzie Poppet]

32. Reading Is Fundamental.

Had you taken even a moment to actually read about the incident, you'd have had no need to ask your transparently race-baiting question. You'd have also avoided looking like an idiot. A potential win-win situation for you, pissed away in your rush to be a bigot.

So much fail.

[baldguy]

11. Why are you trying to justify Zimmerman's act of murder with this?

It's entirely different.

This is more similar:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=31712

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. I am not

This one of several subsequent events where some are claiming its more bad laws covering murder like Zimmerman. In this one claims of vigilantism have been made

[baldguy]

20. Yes, you are.

You're trying desperately to shore up a failing RW policy: which is to make it easier for people to kill each other.

The incident in your OP has nothing in common with the Zimmerman murder case. Zimmerman faced no intruders, he was not in his own home, he was not threatened in any way. Zimmerman went out of his way, and without cause to hunt down & shoot a minor child who was in an area in which that child had a perfectly valid right be in.

There is no reason to bring the story in your OP up in a discussion about George Zimmerman. The only question is: Why do it then?

The answer is, of course, to try and distract people from realizing the truth about a fundamentally & fatally flawed doctrine: SYG laws - which were created and funded by RW extremists, the GOP and the NRA, which were pushed through corrupt state legislatures - and which have nothing to do with real self-defense and essentially legalize murder.

[gejohnston]

21. let's look at that last paragraph

The answer is, of course, to try and distract people from realizing the truth about a fundamentally & fatally flawed doctrine: SYG laws - which were created and funded by RW extremists, the GOP and the NRA, which were pushed through corrupt state legislatures - and which have nothing to do with real self-defense and essentially legalize murder.

Actually not, they evolved from US common law for the past 100 years. California and Utah are both SYG by common law. Washington since 1917, Illinois since 1961. Florida was the first pushed in the 21st century.
Corrupt state legislatures? You mean the politicians that accept campaign contributions?
How so? It only removes duty to retreat. Legalize murder is an oxymoron.

[GreenStormCloud]

29. SYG only covers the defender, not the agressor.

Since Zimmerman was the agressor, then he is not covered by it.

[baldguy]

30. That's another reason the OP has nothing to do with Zimmerman.

RW gunners need to stop trying to make excuses for murderers.

[PavePusher]

16. Not "justify".... "contrast".

Two very different things.

[Hoyt]

19. Zimmerman is not going away - no matter how much crap gun culture throws up.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. Actually I think he is, don't you?

[pipoman]

12. In years gone by

the home owners would almost certainly been charged with some crime and would have had to prove this was self defense instead of the .gov having to prove it wasn't. Then the home owners would have had to respond to a civil suit brought by the families of the convicts. Even though this was castle doctrine, SYG was enacted because people who defend themselves on the street from attackers shouldn't have to face certain criminal charges which they have to prove self defense instead of the prosecution proving it wasn't, and to protect the attempted victims from having to go through defending themselves against civil suits.

[ileus]

13. Rob someones house take a dirt nap.

I don't see a problem here....

So you're saying just because the criminals were black and the homeowners were white this is the same as the Florida case?

[enough]

14. Trying to equate these two completely different situations actually points out

how outrageous the Trayon Martin killing was. And how outrageous it is to attempt to apply SGY to Zimmerman's action.

[Atypical Liberal]

17. Nothing like the Zimmerman case. Two long-time criminals caught inside victims' home.

The marines came home and found two people inside burglarizing the place. Both had extensive criminal records, and they are said to have attacked the homeowners upon being found out.

Burgle a home, get caught, end up dead.

[GreenStormCloud]

18. The burglars were armed and shot at the armed Marines. Big Mistake.

http://www2.wnct.com/news/2012/apr/15/19/police-two-intruders-shot-and-killed-burglary-atte-ar-2165808/