George Zimmerman Had Accomplices. Too Bad We Can’t Arrest Them Too.

[SecularMotion]

by Daniel Gross

Don’t get me wrong, I blame George Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon Martin. But I also blame the NRA and the politicians who do their bidding for putting the gun in his hands.

George Zimmerman had an arrest record and a history of violence. Yet he was allowed to carry a loaded, hidden handgun in the state of Florida. This was the way the NRA wanted it, and this was the policy that the Florida State legislature created on the gun lobby’s behalf.

Make no mistake, the gun lobby wanted George Zimmerman to have a gun, and to be carrying his gun the night he shot Trayvon Martin. They worked very hard to make it so. It is all part of the NRA’s ultimate vision — a vision they proudly admit — of guns just about everywhere, in just about everyone’s hands. George Zimmerman is the creation of the gun lobby.

http://usmag.net/local/miami/daniel-gross-george-zimmerman-had-accomplices-a-too-bad-we-cant-arrest-them-too/

[ileus]

1. So the NRA is handing out pf9's sign me up.

Sure it's a kel-tec but I'd still take a free one.

[bowens43]

2. In addition , we should be prosecuting

the NRA
the person who sold him the gun
the person who sold him the ammunition
the manufacturer of the gun
all of the politicians who voted in favor of this reprehensible law
all of the politicians who voted in favor of concealed carry laws
and all of the members of the supreme court who made the ridiculously stupid decision that what is clearly a collective right in the Constitution is actually an individual right....

guns kill people and have no place in a civilized society. period.

[Callisto32]

3. Unsupported bull-honkey.

Thanks for trying, though!

P.S.

I live in an area where there are sometimes rabid animals.

Rabid animals are very dangerous.

The best way to eliminate a rabid animal is with a firearm.

ERGO, I live in an area where firearms have a place.

[lacrew]

6. I was once bit by an oppossum

And I learned a little about rabies.

1. It is 100% fatal, if untreated! I did not know that.
2. Since I had killed the animal, with a GUN, its brain could be tested, and I avoided a series of painful shots (it wasn't rabid)

But, I was glad I had my rifle that day....don't care how uncivilized it is.

I certainly don't qualify as a 'gun nut', as I only own one rifle (.22)...but I see it as a tool.

[Hoyt]

10. That's proper use of gun. Many here want to to carry it into Chuck E Cheeze, parks, bars, etc.

[AH1Apache]

24. You're right Hoyt

And I frequently exercise that right whether you approve or not.

[PavePusher]

79. Because some animals walk on two legs. And they do far more than bite. n/t

[Hoyt]

83. Personally, I view very few -- if any people -- as "animals." Nor do I feel like "prey."

Now, there are folks who have the intelligence of animals.

[PavePusher]

84. All humans are animals.

unless you think they are mineral or vegetable?

[Hoyt]

89. We don't allow animals to carry guns.

[AH1Apache]

91. My cats have 16 switchblades each

and they damn well know how to use them so you could say they are well armed.

[Hoyt]

93. Mine does too, but he ain't gonna kill me with them.

Well unless I end up on anti-coagulant meds.

[AH1Apache]

94. Off topic

but I do have one cat that has thumbs so she has 20 switchblades.
Yeah that would suck to bleed to death because your cat decided to use it's knives on you.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

99. The cats in my neighborhood could

Its one of the reasons I carry around the property I live on.

[Hoyt]

104. Don't have much problem with what you do on your property. But big cats aren't in Chuck E Cheez.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

112. But there are some really scary big rats there

Snakes and big cats are also one of the main reasons I carry off the property too.

[GreenStormCloud]

117. That's 18 switchblades each.

five on each front paw, 4 each in the rear.

[Hoyt]

126. Next, you guys will be shooting house cats -- they are so scary . . . . . .

[GreenStormCloud]

131. I am happily owned by a cat.

You know that people don't own cats but rather that cats take over people. My overlord is a sold black domestic short hair. As I type this he is curled up, soundly catnapping, on my bookshelf. However, since it is about lunchtime I am about to go to the fridge. He will hear the fridge door open and rapidly materialize in the kitchen, wanting a treat.

My .38 is on the shelf above him.

[oneshooter]

134. I am trying to build up the Quail population on my 40acres

Cats are sheer murder on Quail as they nest on the ground. So far this year some 20 cats have succumbed to 22 Long lead poisoning. Some had collars, most didn't.


Start the wailing and gnashing of teeth over this. There are leash laws in this county, they apply to cats too.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

135. How nice. You get to shoot cats, then quail -- don't shoot unarmed teen lost on your property.

[oneshooter]

138. Are you implying that I would "shoot unarmed teen lost on your property."

That is not compliant with the SOP, and will get you banned. Please remove that offensive post.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

139. Did not imply that. But with your attitude regarding -- and use of - guns, it's much more likely

than someone without a gun, and/or one who does not have great pride in guns.

[PavePusher]

96. So... biology... another class you skipped, eh? n/t

[HALO141]

123. Really?

What state has codified such a restriction? Got a link?

[AH1Apache]

86. Unfortunatly I know some people

whose level of intelligence would be improved by being as smart as an animal

[rl6214]

90. Are you still hanging out at Chuck E Cheeze?

[Becka2515]

107. ROFL

BURN!!!

[Kablooie]

29. Also rifles are designed to be hunting tools. Many other guns are designed to be human killing tools

[sarisataka]

31. Yes, I was so mad at the Marine Corps...

For issuing me a rifle and sending me to a war zone. I needed a human killing tool.

[AH1Apache]

32. Hell, you thnk thats bad

the Army issued me a gunship and sent me to a war zone 4 times.

[sarisataka]

71. Sucks to be you

Thanks brother, I appreciated those gunships. I even picked up a bit of a soft spot for the Air Force when the A-10s would get down in the mud with us.

[AH1Apache]

73. Your welcome brother and welcome back to the world

[Kablooie]

95. Betcha shot a lot of deer though.

I realize I didn't make my point very well.

My point was that there are many guns designed for hunting and civilians that hunt and eat what they hunt, I don't have a problem with.
Of course there is the potential for killing people with it too but that isn't what the device is designed for.

But many guns, and rifles of course, are designed for war or law enforcement.
These are designed specifically to kill people but they are used in the protection of others by people, like yourself, who have been professionally trained.

When used in the protection of others they are necessary but I don't think it wise for this type of weapon to be freely available to the general public.

By the way, I hate war but I realize the necessity of protection so I have nothing but respect for both our Armed Forces and Law Enforcement when they are honorable and do their job properly as in most cases I'm sure they do.

[sarisataka]

105. No, camel spiders

Not fond of trophy hunting myself. I find I do most of my hunting in areas that the ecosystem is so out of balance, drastic measures are needed.

And you are correct. I would much rather face armed people with an M-16 or civilian equivalent than a bolt action Mauser. A fine weapon in its day but... What makes the civilian models good however is some of the things that make them good on combat. Light weight, shorter overall, retractable or folding stock so you can customize it a a few seconds. With the proper ammo selection you have an excellent home defense gun.

The rub of course is, like any other rifle, pistol or shotgun, you need to know what you are doing. An untrained person picking up a gun to use in a high stress situation is an accident that likely will happen. The higher number of rounds in the magazine gives that many more chances to make a mistake.

I would love to see a training requirement to purchase any gun but have not yet figured out how to do that without violating a personal right. Maybe some day...

Thank you. My experience is 99.9% of our military is conscientious and honorable. They will not try to cause unnecessary casualties in the majority of situations.

[GreenStormCloud]

118. My wife has twice used her pistol to protect herself from being mugged.

In each case the would-be attacker fled when he realized that she was armed. No shots fired.

Would you be happier if she were, dead, another crime statistic?

[HALO141]

128. Of course, cuzzzz.......

no member of the general public has ever been known to use such a device for such a legitimate purpose.

Is that what you're trying to say?

[Hoyt]

113. Yea, but you need to remember that the USA ain't a war zone.

[sarisataka]

114. Been to Detroit lately?

[Hoyt]

122. I'd expect that answer from a TBagger.

[AH1Apache]

129. Really?

Your accusing a fellow DU member of being a "TBagger"?

[sarisataka]

133. Hoyt's reply made me realize a mistake

Philadelphia would be a better example. The news I read coming out of there, the city of brotherly love is trying to kill each other with guns, knives, blunt objects, pointed sticks and I would not be surprised to learn plots involving sharks with frickin' lasers on their heads

[sarisataka]

130. Wouldn't know...

Any group that counts Michelle Bachmann as a key member is enough proof of mass hysteria and insanity for me.
By the grace of God and the district boundary being 1000 yards north of my dwelling she is not my rep.

[gejohnston]

35. there are handguns designed for hunting

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/gear/hunting-gear/2010/06/25-best-handguns-hunting-ever-made

[X_Digger]

52. *All* rifles are derived from military arms. ('killing tools')

That's a disingenuous classification.

[Johnny Rico]

56. Hm...technical disagreement.

What military arm (just as a for instance) is the Ruger 10/22 rifle derived from?

[X_Digger]

60. I'd say any of the blow-back rifles (winchester 1903/1905, etc)

Which were used in military training.

I suppose some of the bench rest rigs, or olympic rifles would be considered 'free' from military 'taint', but even that's a stretch.

[Johnny Rico]

62. That's a bit of a stretch, saying that the 10/22 was derived from the Winchester 1903/1905

just because they're both blowback designs.

And in any case, I can come up with all sorts of other examples of rifles that have no military origin in their design.

Winchester model 1885. Holland & Holland .600 Nitro Express double rifle. Etc...

Your larger point stands. The vast majority of rifles have some sort of military connection in their origin.

[X_Digger]

63. Grand-children instead of children, then, hehe.

If you look at schematics of those older rifles, you can usually trace back the actual antecedent, or the antecedent via *cough* borrowing to something that was used in a military setting.

[PavePusher]

80. IIRC, the 10/22 is a decendent of the M1 Garand/M14/M1A. n/t

[Straw Man]

97. More like the M1 Carbine, if you ask me.

But nobody did. Ask me, I mean.

[PavePusher]

98. O.K., I can live with that.

But the carbine was, arguably, the literal bastard step-child of the M1 and the Winchester M2 design.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine

So there's definitely a direct genetic link.

No asking required...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

100. Actually it is not even close

No bolt/barrel lock up, no gas operating rod for starters.

The 10/22 is a classic blowback operated semi auto, typical for 22 rimfire.

Mini-14 and Mini-30 are much closer to the M-1 family

[PavePusher]

115. Argh, my bad, that's what I was thinking of. Keyboarding while sleep-deprived. Ugh. n/t

[Straw Man]

116. In looks and handling ...

... it is reminiscent of the M1 carbine. I think that was deliberate on Ruger's part.

[Kablooie]

121. I suppose you are right. Matchlock muskets were military arms originally.

And rifles were derived from them over the centuries.

[HALO141]

125. Soooo.... you mean, the not-rifles.

Handguns? Smooth bore muskets? Blunderbusses? Punt guns?

Please clarify.

[oneshooter]

137. Rabies in Opossums is quite rare. Their body temp is too low for the virus to survive.

However better safe than sorry. Glad to hear that you didn't get to enjoy the injections. My younger sister was bitten by a bat 30 years ago and said she would almost rather have the rabies!
They hurt, a lot!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[lacrew]

140. I went to the hospital to get a tetanus shot

I was amused when they told me that this was 'only the third oppossum bite this month'.....what the heck?

The doctor told me the likelyhood of of rabies with an oppossum was rare...so I didn't think I would have to do much. I figured, if I start to get symptoms of rabies, I'll go back to the doctor.

But when I told my tale the next day at work, I was informed that rabies was 100% fatal, and by the time you had symptoms, it was too late.

Soooo....I called animal control. They actually have a guy, who is a badge wearing deputy, who scoops up the animal, and takes the head to the local university. A few days later, they call and tell you the results...very efficient.

The animal control deputy also said rabies was rare in oppossums...but very common in the raccoons. I couldn't imagine living 150 years ago, fearful that a raccoon bite would be the end of me. I'd wear gloves and tall boots everywhere I went!

[ileus]

4. you forgot the holster maker.

The primer company
Brass company
power maker
Projectile company
The group that provides the springs to KT
the person that put the stamp on his chp
newton's law of physics

[Remmah2]

7. You forgot the lead, copper and steel miners. nt

nt

[ileus]

8. and you forgot the trucking companies

[DonP]

23. Paper manufacturers too

Those cartridge boxes have to come from somewhere. That way they can get the environmental groups to join in too.

[Johnny Rico]

42. TV shows about guns and the cable companies the broadcast them.

Can't let the 1st amendment stop the suppression of the 2nd, after all.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

49. and the countries...

...which allow the mining of those evil elements. If it was for copper and zinc miner we'd have no brass nor copper jackets for bullets. Chile leads the world in copper production.

Then there is lead and beside the US, the countries of Australia, China, USA, Peru, Canada, Mexico, Sweden, Morocco, South Africa and North Korea lead the world in production.

Hell they should all be on trial. Or at least on double secret probation.

[AH1Apache]

5. I can't seem to get an answer from this person, but what the hell, I'll ask again

Will you go door to door to help with confiscation or are you just another keyboard kommando who does nothing except bitch and moan?

[ileus]

9. you stop that....guns kill people.

[AH1Apache]

11. Oh, that's right

how foolish of me to try to get bowens43 to answer a question that doesn't fit his/hers/its agenda.

[Common Sense Party]

17. That poster does hit-and-runs exclusively.

Posts once about how all guns are evil and no one should be allowed to own them, then disappears and never debates.

[Hoyt]

12. Are you suggesting so-called law-abiding gun owners would not give them if if law enacted?

Maybe they aren't as law-abiding as you guys keep telling us. I admit, the whining would be loud. The thought of having to face life in a modern society without a gun would freak most of you guys out.

[AH1Apache]

16. So called law abiding, is that the new mantra for the gun control crowd Hoyt?

On the miniscule chance, no, let me rephrase, on the 0% chance that happens, would you go door to door and help with confiscation?

[Hoyt]

18. Now, you are suggesting big bad pro-gun crowd would use their guns to preserve their backward way

of life.

Actually, I would go because I'd love seeing the poor, pitiful gun owners cry and thrash around before I die.

[AH1Apache]

25. Ah, a new mantra by Hoyt.

Big bad pro-gun crowd preserving their backward way of life.
This just gets better and better.
You are beginning to sound just like that idiot who wanted foreign armies to disarm law abiding gun owners in America and thought that the U.S. Military and citizens would just stand by and let it happen.
Are you like that person also?

[rl6214]

92. Don't you know hoyts prowess at disarming gun owners, field stripping their 1911's and

throwing the parts into the bushes?

Cracks me up every time I think of it

[Hoyt]

124. You guys strapping guns on to walk out the door or caressing them in privacy, is a lot funnier.

It's also sadder.

[AH1Apache]

132. Jeeeez Hoyt.

you been spying on me? The only one who caresses my gun is my wife. LOL
Can you get anymore ridiculous?

[rl6214]

136. Just keep on watching, I'll bet he can.

[lacrew]

37. It would be more than a mere law

First, much to the chagrin of many, the anti-gun groups would have to push through an ammendment to the constitution.

That will never happen.

But if it did, no guns would be grabbed in some states, until the state constitution is changed.

That could happen in some states..but not all.

But say it did. Now local jurisdictions can make their own laws. These laws would probably be aimed at pistols. The vast majority of cities and counties would never outlaw long guns...ever.

Sooo....I'm not too concerned with anybody taking my lone gun.

Buuut....it is a losing issue for the DNC. I know plenty of gun owners, who are one issue voters...that issue being guns. They might otherwise be inclined to vote Democrat, but for their one issue....and I really just don't understand. The odds of successfully going door to door to confiscate guns is nihl...but the issue keeps getting pushed.

[Hoyt]

39. If all they care about is guns, I'm for them just saying they are a TBagger. And the heck with them.

I'd settle for prohibiting guns in public places. Gun sales/manufacturing would decline significantly with that.

And, if a supposedly law-abiding "Zimmerman wannabe" shoots someone, police can arrest him on the spot for carrying a gun illegally. Then, they can begin investigating.

[AH1Apache]

41. Now it's "Zimmerman wannabe"

This just gets better and better Hoyt.

[ileus]

55. baser gunner rude toters impolite bastards.

[DonP]

44. Amazing! That's exactly the way we handle it in "Gun Free" Chicago

"if a supposedly law-abiding "Zimmerman wannabe" shoots someone, police can arrest him on the spot for carrying a gun illegally. Then, they can begin investigating."

Since any form of CCW is illegal in Illinois, except for crooked politicians of course, that's exactly what they can do here.

Why aren't you moving here!!!

And it works perfectly, no gun violence at all, well ... except for 10 to 15 shootings every weekend ... and few if any gun charges ever filed. The fact that we're 60% ahead of last year in murders is probably just coincidental o our gun bans and the fact that Rahm is cutting the police force.

The DA pleads away the gun charges as the first part of their plea deals.

Damn GOP/NRA DA's! Oh wait. There hasn't been any GOP running things in Chicago since Capone's era.

[shadowrider]

74. I'm surprised, given he lives in a shall issue state and is surrounded by guns

he gets out of bed in the morning
and really surprised
he hasn't moved to a gun-free mecca such as Chicago or New York. He could then rest easy knowing he has no chance of being shot since guns are illegal.

[oneshooter]

77. Remember, he chases down and detains perceived concealed carry

folks. Refuses to release them until the police "check their papers".

How many is it now Hoyt? 50? 100? More? Give us a number so we can keep up.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[DonP]

111. Don't forget his extensive collection of T-Bagger ass photos

He frequently posts pictures he's collected of what he claims are "T-Baggers fat asses", sitting in chairs in Starbuck's open carrying.

I'm still a little foggy on why he'd want a collection like that and why he doesn't confront them and demand their papers, but it's his personal choice.

[lacrew]

64. Not Tea Party at all

I know quite a few people, who would tend to vote Democrat....but will always, 100% of the time, go with whichever candidate is endorsed by the NRA.

This might be hard to compute for some....but the NRA does endorse Democrats as well....the NRA's only political agenda is their one issue. They have nothing to do with the tea party.

I'm not sure what you mean by public places...many public places already prohibit guns. Are you talking public ROW?...that would be a little ironic, since cars in the ROW kill more people than guns in the ROW. BTW, the Zimmerman shooting was on private property, such a law would not have affected his case.

[gejohnston]

40. true including

The odds of successfully going door to door to confiscate guns is nihl...but the issue keeps getting pushed.

Canada didn't even try that with machine guns and small pistols. That is why they created the "prohibited PAL", a license to possess banned weapons.

[Glaug-Eldare]

85. I take it that CORE activists were hardened criminals

because they challenged and refused to accept unconstitutional and immoral violations of their civil and human rights? Those outside agitator-types sure weren't law-abiding when it came to Jim Crow statutes, were they...

[Hoyt]

13. Agree. But the right wingers are gonna whine.

[oneshooter]

78. Are they going to whine as loud, hard and often as you do?

[Becka2515]

109. I doubt it.

I really wish one day Hoyt and his marry band of anti's would tell how if tomorrow guns were outlawed how'd he round them up?

[needledriver]

14. So what you're saying

is that in the 2nd Amendment "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" means that the people have a right to keep and bear arms but individuals do not?

What about the 4th Amendment, where "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"? Does that mean that only the people are secure against unreasonable searches and seizures and individuals are not?

[bongbong]

26. 2nd Amendment

The 2nd Amendment wasn't about gun ownership. It is about militias.

[AH1Apache]

27. Keep pushing that

Maybe some day someone might actually believe it.

[X_Digger]

54. Doubt it, but it's comedic gold.

If we didn't have stupid shit like that posted here, it'd be ever so boring.

[AH1Apache]

57. It's good for comic relief

[Remmah2]

65. I'm beginning to think the 2A is about mind control. nt

nt

[Callisto32]

68. Well, it ain't weed in that bongbong.

Weed doesn't enhance the ability to tolerate cognitive dissonance.

[PavePusher]

82. I guess that's why the operative portion says "the right of the people".

Must have been a really big typo?

[melm00se]

106. too bad that the Supreme Court

wholly disagrees with that statement.

"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home" (emphasis added)

Source

[GreenStormCloud]

120. Take a look at the state constitutions from that era.

It wasn't about militias. I will list a few examples.

Maine:
Article I, Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.


Rhode Island:
Article 1, Section 22. Right to bear arms. -- The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Connecticut:
Article 1, SEC. 15. Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.


Pennsylvania: (The Declaration of Rights of the Pennsylvania Constitution predates and was a model for the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution)
Section 21 . The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

Get the idea? No militia clause listed. They wanted everybody to be able to have a gun.

[Dr. Strange]

15. Great idea!

We don't have nearly enough people in jail.

[ZombieHorde]

19. You think we should prosecute people who do perfectly legal things? nt

[DonP]

20. Let us know when their indictments come down

Or are you going to start a fund to raise money to support a civil suit against all of them?

Let me guess, you're just going to sit with your thumb up your ass and do nothing but snipe and snark with drive by posts online about your "strongly held gun control beliefs".

Just like all the rest of your gun control supporting friends. No action, no support, just blathering.

No wonder the NRA wipes up the floor in court and in legislatures with gun control supporters (I'd say groups, but there really aren't any) every time the issue comes up.

[sarisataka]

21. You for got to add...

all of the people who voted for the politicians who voted in favor of this reprehensible law
all of the people who voted for the politicians who voted in favor of concealed carry laws
all of the people who voted for the presidents who appointed the members of the supreme court who made the ridiculously stupid decision that what is clearly a collective right in the Constitution is actually an individual right....


DAMN YOU RULE OF LAW!!!!!!! YOU MAKE US ALL CRIMINALS!!!

[Starboard Tack]

33. But that would mean accountability.

What a novel concept. Gun carriers don't consider themselves accountable to anyone besides themselves, their families and, of course, those thousands of women they save from being raped on a daily basis. They certainly don't owe society anything. A society that is constantly trying to curb their rights to kill those they fear.

[gejohnston]

36. get real

you can do better than that nonsense.

[Starboard Tack]

45. I don't carry

So please point out the "nonsense" in my post.

[gejohnston]

48. this nonsense

They certainly don't owe society anything. A society that is constantly trying to curb their rights to kill those they fear.

Since you don't seem to be a millionaire, I hope you don't carry in southern California.

[AH1Apache]

38. C'mon

I've read your posts, not even you believe that. Coming from H..t I would believe he meant but not from you.

[Starboard Tack]

47. OK, maybe not all gun carriers, but many.

I do believe in accountability.

[AH1Apache]

50. On that, we can agree on.

If you fuck up, you should be held accountable.
Holy shit, we agree on something.

[Starboard Tack]

58. I'm sure we agree on lots of things

Even in the area of guns.

[AH1Apache]

59. I agree, even in the area of guns.

[X_Digger]

51. What charge? Not meeting your idiotic ideology? n/t

[SATIRical]

76. Don't forget the manufacturer of hoodies

After all, we need to include everyone who is remotely connected.

Oh, and the people who built the gated community, especially whoever paved that road!!!

And the store Martin came from.

[rl6214]

88. Is that you shares?

Or hoyt...






















or 6pak?

[Straw Man]

22. Interesting.

George Zimmerman had an arrest record and a history of violence. Yet he was allowed to carry a loaded, hidden handgun in the state of Florida. This was the way the NRA wanted it, and this was the policy that the Florida State legislature created on the gun lobby’s behalf.

I haven't seen any evidence that the NRA lobbies for gun rights for felons. Perhaps you could point this out to me. While you're at it, you could provide the Florida legislation that allows people with "an arrest record and a history of violence" to get CCW permits.

Is this your own original nonsense, or are you just quoting Gross?

[mvccd1000]

28. Accomplices like Janet Napolitano?

As governor of Arizona, she signed a law ensuring that felons could still get their CCW after the Department of Public Safety balked at issuing licenses to felons. (HB2634, signed June 12, 2008)

[gejohnston]

34. that would be interesting

be OK under state law, but busted by the feds for having the gun. Or does their CCW law include knives etc?

[Straw Man]

53. You conveniently overlooked one fact.

As governor of Arizona, she signed a law ensuring that felons could still get their CCW after the Department of Public Safety balked at issuing licenses to felons. (HB2634, signed June 12, 2008)

HB2634 deals with those who have had their felony records expunged or their convictions set aside. They technically aren't felons anymore. I guess you don't subscribe to the concept of having paid one's debt to society.

How very progressive of you.

[mvccd1000]

101. Ahh, yes.

Much like having a marriage "annulled," as if it had supposedly never happened. My former roommate had a little side business getting rid of the extra meth she didn't smoke in exchange for the extra money people didn't need. She was busted, convicted, and then played nice for a few years. She was able to have her record expunged. Voila! It's like she was never a meth dealer at all. Thankfully, because of the gov's foresight in passing this law, I can now take her shooting with me.

[Straw Man]

102. Yes.

My former roommate had a little side business getting rid of the extra meth she didn't smoke in exchange for the extra money people didn't need. She was busted, convicted, and then played nice for a few years. She was able to have her record expunged. Voila! It's like she was never a meth dealer at all. Thankfully, because of the gov's foresight in passing this law, I can now take her shooting with me.

Don't you believe in rehabilitation? Do you think she is a dangerous person? If not, why not take her shooting with you? If so, you might want to give some serious thought to who your friends are.

[mvccd1000]

110. Of course I believe in rehabilitation.

Hence my support for this law.

If you've spent much time on DU, though, you've seen that one of the prime rallying cries of the Gun Control crowd is "keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill (and terrorists, and children, and, and, and...)."

If we're to assume that all prior felons are rehabilitated after their stints in prison, then why bother with the laws banning felons from possessing firearms?

As posted in the OP (which is what I responded to):

George Zimmerman had an arrest record and a history of violence. Yet he was allowed to carry a loaded, hidden handgun in the state of Florida. This was the way the NRA wanted it, and this was the policy that the Florida State legislature created on the gun lobby’s behalf.

Great. My friend also had an arrest record. Yet she is allowed to carry a loaded, hidden handgun in the state of Arizona. This is the way Governor Napolitano wanted it, and this is the policy that she signed into law on.... whose behalf? Do you suppose Janet is a stooge for the gun lobby?

[Straw Man]

119. Sorry.

I seem to have gotten my signals crossed. I thought you were arguing against it.

But I do think that there's a clear difference between just serving the time and actually having the record expunged or the conviction tossed out. The latter are almost equivalent to an "Oops!" by the court.

[Glaug-Eldare]

127. Do you mean arrest record or conviction record?

Arrests are the means by which suspects, presumed innocent, are brought to trial. In the trial, a court makes a determination of whether they did or did not break the law, and (in MD, at least) whether or not that law is just. If an innocent man is acquitted, he has an arrest record. Civil rights should not be revoked on the basis of procedures outside of convictions.

EDIT: Looks like I totally misread your post in my haste. So, just...do, like, whatever, man.

[KurtNYC]

30. It would have been no better if he killed with a baseball bat

axe handle or a knife.

Seems to me like GZ's accomplices showed up in the 24 hours AFTER the killing.

[fightforfreedom123]

43. Stop funding the NRA

Do not like what the NRA does, do not give them money.

What do you think the NRA does with your money?

[KurtNYC]

61. maybe I'm a bit slow here...

You are accusing me, personally, of "funding the NRA" ?

[X_Digger]

46. Due process, it's a terrible thing, ain't it?

Police and other statist agents should be able to act arbitrarily to deny rights. I mean, they're the police, right? They know what's best for you, and they'd never abuse that public trust. AmIright?

[jeepnstein]

66. Wait until the inevitable happens and Zimmerman walks.

Unless the Prosecution gets a special dispensation to only select jurors who are sympathetic to them will this case go anywhere. That's why the police and the prosecutors didn't charge him from the get go. The only way Zimmerman gets convicted is if he talks himself into it.

[X_Digger]

67. I think that under cross, he's going to contradict himself or lash out.

He seems to have a problem keeping his temper. Intense cross, just short of badgering? I could see him exploding and blowing his defense.

[friendly_iconoclast]

69. I was thinking the same thing. Zimmerman will talk himself into a long prison sentence.

Among his other less than charming attributes, that one's got a serious case of felony motormouth...

[sarisataka]

72. if his attorney is smart

Z never goes on the stand. The defense doesn't have to prove anything just go for reasonable doubt.

My money is on a plea deal before it gets to court.

[AH1Apache]

75. I have to agree with you

I think the DA charged 2nd degree murder and will offer a plea deal of manslaughter before it even goes to trial, not saying he's guiltly or innocent, just my take on it.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

81. re: "Too Bad We Can’t Arrest Them Too."

I think you (singular) should. It's called a citizens arrest.

Have a nice day.

[rl6214]

87. More whining about guns everywhere all the time...

Still waiting for someone to post a link to where the NRA has said anything of the sort.

[Union Scribe]

103. But...but...

it's "a vision they proudly admit"! The article says so.

[slackmaster]

108. When a small conspiracy doesn't explain things, you can always escalate it into a large conspiracy