BATFE Violates The Law Again

[burf]

Anchorage gun shops are being visited by BATFE agents that are requesting the shops 4473 forms as far back as 2007.

They claim they want to make copies of the “book”. This is defacto registration, against the law, and BATFE knows it.


Read more at Ammoland.com: http://www.ammoland.com/2012/04/03/batfe-violates-the-law-again/#ixzz1r0xjZwcL

For those who don't know, the 4473 is the Firearms Transaction Record.

[Atypical Liberal]

1. Yup. This is why I distrust the idea that NICS checks are discarded.

There's no way our government is going to toss that treasure trove of data.

[ManiacJoe]

4. The NICS check does not contain much data to retain.

The only data about the firearm is "long gun vs handgun" so that the correct age check is done.

[burf]

10. Is the seller required

to complete Section D of the 4473?

[ManiacJoe]

11. Yes, there are no optional sections.

But that has nothing to do with the NICS check.

[burf]

12. Yes sir,

But when the ATF comes in as in the OP and get the info on the buyer off the form, they just turn over to Section D and there's the info on what was purchased.

To buy from a licensed dealer you gotta fill out the 4473 to get the background check that you got to have to purchase the firearm.

[ManiacJoe]

13. All true, but not relevant to the NICS check (this subthread = NICS data).

The NICS check can be done in parallel to the 4473 form.

The NICS check contains no data about the gun except for the type (long gun vs handgun).

The ATF making [illegal?] photocopies is not related to the data in the NICS check.

[Atypical Liberal]

21. It has the name of the applicant.

This is sufficient to create a database of probable gun owners, which annoys me.

[Clames]

9. That's why I buy mine...

...on the private market...

[safeinOhio]

15. Ex-wife was a cop and

always kept an untraceable piece as a "throw-down".

Most likely come in handy for your average neighborhood watch captain to keep a couple around too.

[Callisto32]

17. Did you just tell us she was going to plant "evidence?!"

[jeepnstein]

19. Doubt it.

I've never known a cop that did it. And the need for one is so overblown that the whole concept is something better suited to TV or the movies. I can guarantee anyone caught using one would be prosecuted for the good of the institution.

With all the junk we carry on our tool belts and in our pockets I'm always stumped about where we're supposed to hid this mythical "throw down".

[gejohnston]

20. a .25 or

small .22 in a second handcuff case? (that would be kind of obvious) One of those cheap .38 derringers in a metal or plastic cigarette case?

Or there is Hoyt's idea, put a full sized pistol down your pants and just say "I'm really that glad to see you"

[DonP]

2. Another Eric Holder production

Maybe the plan is to distract people from watching what they fucked up along the Southern border by fucking up and creating another SCOTUS worthy case in Alaska?

[Remmah2]

3. Must be using dog sleds to smuggle guns across the Bearing Strait.

Mush, mush.................

[ileus]

6. I can see gun runners from my house.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

7. I would...

...refudiate that.

[ellisonz]

16. Bering*

[Remmah2]

22. Tanks!

My bad humor is not without spelling err...........

[ileus]

5. There's a reason they require you to keep those forever...

They know everyone is down on paper, it's just a matter of collecting those and knocking on your door.

[burf]

8. I thought there was an instance of that

a few years ago. The Feds were looking for a specific type weapon and went through the 4473s and found who in the community had purchased one and went to their addresses to check it out.

Looked and couldn't find anything.

Bottom line is the Patriot Act (Section 215) strikes again!

[cbrer]

14. Yet more evidence

That we're turning into a police state. The methods used by our handlers to divide us as citizens are very effective. And another example of selective enforcement of our laws.

I recently saw a poll (I'll try to find again) that stated that Americans agreed on ~80% of the policies we need as a nation, to move forward. We have more in common than not, and are effectively neutralized by arguing and fighting with each other, rather than holding our leaders to a high standard of performance.

[Callisto32]

18. We all knew that 4473's were nothing but registration all along.

Why else would you be required to keep them forever?

In fact, this is even better than having .gov registration, from their point of view, because this makes every FFL their un-paid inoformant, who actually needs to pay OUT for that "privilege" as a cost of doing business.

Kind of like when states decide to turn every retailer into their unpaid tax collectors.

[burf]

23. Alaskan BATFE Bound Book-Grab Update

Great Northern Guns in Anchorage, Alaska was asked to give up their “Bound Book” to a BATFE Agent so it could be copied.

The Bound Book is a complete record of all firearms transactions by the FFL holder.

They are not required by law to do so and they refused. In fact this would be a violation of FOPA. (Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986)


Read more at Ammoland.com: http://www.ammoland.com/2012/04/06/alaskan-batfe-bound-book-grab-update/#ixzz1rMVjGquz

I wonder where the order for the ATF agents to do this came from. The Seattle office is the regional authority. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[Callisto32]

24. "Buck?"

"What buck?"

[burf]

25. My guess is .....

the one that never got there.