Arizona Governor signs pro-gun hunting bill

[GreenStormCloud]

http://www.nraila.org/hunting/issues-and-alerts/2012/3/one-arizona-hunting-bill-signed-by-governor,-another-up-for-a-vote-in-senate.aspx

Yesterday, Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed into law House Bill 2640, which passed in both houses by large bipartisan majorities and will eliminate restrictions on the magazine capacity of any authorized firearm regulated by the Arizona Game and Fish Commission. Also, House Bill 2728, which would allow hunters in Arizona to use lawfully-possessed suppressors (also referred to as silencers) on firearms for hunting, has passed out of the Committee of the Whole and is now eligible for a vote in the full Senate.

HB 2640, introduced by state Representative Jerry Weiers (R-12), will allow more hunters to enter the field while preventing them from having to purchase additional, smaller-capacity magazines. The ability to hunt with any authorized firearm, regardless of its capacity, is a simple, common-sense idea. In addition, increased magazine size has become essential for self-defense while in remote areas because of the increased presence of drug smugglers and criminals on Arizona’s hunting lands. Hunters should not be prohibited from adequately defending themselves and HB 2640 will help solve this growing problem.
-----------
Another pro-gun bill becomes law. In numerous states other bills are working their way through the system. Notice that this bill had bipartisan support.

[Oneka]

1. The Lashback

it's coming!!!

[ileus]

2. Congrats to our hunting friends in Az...good luck this coming season

no matter what season that may be....


Do they have spring Gobbler or Bear season?

[gejohnston]

3. bbbut the bill will turn Arizona into France

Norway and Finland

Also, House Bill 2728, which would allow hunters in Arizona to use lawfully-possessed suppressors (also referred to as silencers) on firearms for hunting, has passed out of the Committee of the Whole and is now eligible for a vote in the full Senate.

Hope no one tells Brewer about that part.

[orwell]

4. Just another state...

...not to visit.

Enjoy your guns...

[GreenStormCloud]

5. They won't miss you. N/T

[ileus]

12. So you only visit states without hunting seasons?

[PavePusher]

18. Why not? What in this law makes the state less safe to vist?

Specifics, please.

[rl6214]

47. what states don't allow hunting with guns?

Better move to canada...oh wait, they allow hunting as well. Maybe Cuba?

[pipoman]

6. I don't know about AZ,

but here feral hogs are very dangerous and the increased capacities may come in handy if one was charged by one of these..

[gejohnston]

7. man, that will fill a freezer or two.

eat a lot of pork roast?

[spin]

8. I don't hunt but I have talked to hunters who said ...

it's not a bad idea to carry a revolver or a pistol when hunting hog. If you wound one and it puts you up a tree, you usually drop your rifle in order to climb. A powerful handgun can reduce the amount of time that you have to spend in the tree.

[pipoman]

13. A lot of hunters have

encountered hogs in the southern part of Kansas. They are just a little smarter than other game in these parts and they are aggressive. It only takes 3 generations for a hog to loose it's domestic qualities and revert to a wild animal. They are illusive and destructive...and a handgun is a good idea in hog country.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. Sometimes huners blunder into criminals and may need the extra ammo.

Forty-three years ago while hunting deer in Uvalde County, TX on the Nueces river I was walking South on a trail to a hunting spot and was passed by four Mexicans walking North. Nothing happened, we just waved to each other. Back then illegal immigration wasn't handled by cartels like it is today and wasn't so dangerous.

Today a hunter could blunder into an escorted group of illegals, or a drug lab or marijuana farm or other dangerous situations. If I were hunting in that area I would want something with a 20 round magazine and a couple of spare mags, as well as a handgun and a few spare mags.

[oneshooter]

10. In West Texas there are a lot of hunters that discover

operating meth labs in their deer stands.

Happened to me four years ago. Walked up to my box stand with my eldest son and found a cooking meth lab inside. Called DPS and the Game Warden on the cellm phone, stepped back 40-50yds and waited. Didn't have anything modern with us, just a pair of .50 flinters.

DPS showed about 3 hr and 5 phone calls later, had to send my son to open the gate. Next thing I know there are all sorts of folks there! I guided them to the other hunters stands and found 3 more labs. Sure ruined our hunting that weekend.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[ellisonz]

11. Human-Hunting Bill

has become essential for self-defense while in remote areas because of the increased presence of drug smugglers and criminals on Arizona’s hunting lands.

[gejohnston]

15. Where I'm from

the pot farmers and meth cooks are all white. They would blow you away just for the hell of it and to protect their untaxed profits. Kind of like the Kochs, but without teeth.

[ellisonz]

16. That image is bizarre...

"Future guns may look different. So will future gun owners."

[gejohnston]

17. you don't have kids do you?

You think Dad should be sitting on the couch drinking beer while she sits in her room playing a video game? You teach your kids stuff and share your experiences with them. You accept them as they are even if you don't share your taste in clothes.

[ellisonz]

21. No.

I don't have kids, and even if I did, I'm sure as heck not putting an assault rifle in their hands.

[ileus]

25. My 9yo daughter loves shooting her moms AR...

Of course I don't look or dress like that....so I'm not nearly as cool as the guy in the picture.

[oneshooter]

29. WOW!! And to think, I built my 13yr old a AR-15 for Christmas.

Truly I am evil.

Your option.

[ellisonz]

31. Is it even legal to let him posess a weapon like that? n/t

[PavePusher]

34. Under adult supervision, why wouldn't it be?

What is it about AR-pattern rifles that you think makes them more dangerous than any other rifle?

[ellisonz]

35. Lock that shit up. n/t

[AH1Apache]

36. So your telling him what to do with his property?

[ellisonz]

37. I'm telling him that in the State of Texas...

Law Summary

The child access prevention law generally requires that no person shall store or keep any loaded firearm on any premise under their control if it is known or reasonably should be known that a minor age 16 and under is likely to gain access to the firearm with out permission unless the firearm is properly stored. A person can be held criminally negligent if the minor gains access to the firearm and causes injury or death to him/herself or another person. Texas law requires retailers to inform firearm purchasers of this law through a written public warning.

http://www.safekids.org/in-your-area/safety-laws/child-access-prevention-law-texas.html

[AH1Apache]

38. So your presuming that he doesn't know TX law?

[PavePusher]

49. e.z "presumes" a lot of things.

Like several others in this forum, we've become fairly immune to all but the most egregious accusations.

[Glassunion]

59. Hmm

The child access prevention law generally requires that no person shall store or keep any loaded firearm on any premise under their control if it is known or reasonably should be known that a minor age 16 and under is likely to gain access to the firearm with out permission unless the firearm is properly stored. A person can be held criminally negligent if the minor gains access to the firearm and causes injury or death to him/herself or another person. Texas law requires retailers to inform firearm purchasers of this law through a written public warning.

Exceptions...
However, a person is not guilty under this law if the child's access to the firearm:
Was supervised by a person older than age 18 and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
Consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;
Was gained by entering property in violation of this code;
or Occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an agricultural enterprise.

[PavePusher]

45. I don't care what state I'm in....

I always lock up my guns. That is not a guarantee, of course.

But you have dodged from your initial question.

[ellisonz]

46. Good.

But as to your assertion that I'm dodgy, I guess you're just going to have to bust out those enhanced interrogation techniques.

Even the NRA doesn't deny that this is more about killing people than about killing animals, even if the pretense is about killing people while killing animals.

[PavePusher]

48. Huh?! "Even the NRA doesn't deny that this is more about killing people than about killing animals"

WTF? And where did you pull that from?

[ellisonz]

50. How are you missing that?

HB 2640, introduced by state Representative Jerry Weiers (R-12), will allow more hunters to enter the field while preventing them from having to purchase additional, smaller-capacity magazines. The ability to hunt with any authorized firearm, regardless of its capacity, is a simple, common-sense idea. In addition, increased magazine size has become essential for self-defense while in remote areas because of the increased presence of drug smugglers and criminals on Arizona’s hunting lands. Hunters should not be prohibited from adequately defending themselves and HB 2640 will help solve this growing problem.

Total bullshit. Noise problem really? Where are you going to be near a residential area where you will have to shoot it out with the Zetas

WTF? And where are you not seeing that might point is valid?

[Glassunion]

60. Personally, because of the area that I am in, I wish hunters were required to use suppressors.

I enjoy a lot of outdoor sports(hiking, kayaking, camping) and the occasional report from a rifle can be heard from miles away and tends to spook the animals I'm trying to grab photos of.

[eqfan592]

73. I agree. I think it's sad that our regulation of sound suppressors stems almost entirely...

...from ignorance of how sound suppressors actually work. I think most non-firearm enthusiasts seem to think that a sound suppressor makes a firearm nearly silent, which is simply not the case the vast majority of the time.

[gejohnston]

43. In Canada

his son would be able to walk in the store and buy ammo for it and possess most guns in that caliber.

[iverglas]

79. what is your obsession with Canada?

If you're going to ride that hobbyhorse, can't you get it right?

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/minor-mineur-eng.htm

A minor’s licence permits the borrowing of non-restricted firearms (ordinary rifles and shotguns) for the following activities:

target practice
organized shooting competitions
hunting
being instructed in the use of firearms

A minor's licence also permits the acquisition of ammunition, unless there is an age restriction under provincial or territorial law.

As a general rule, the following requirements must be met to be eligible for a minor's licence:

The applicant must be at least 12 years old. If they are younger than 12, they may obtain a minor's licence only if they are Canadian residents and their Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) determines they need to hunt or trap to sustain themselves or their family. They must pass the Canadian Firearms Safety Course tests before they apply for a licence. However, an exception may be made if they are Canadian residents and need to hunt or trap in order to sustain themselves or their family. The Chief Firearms Officer will decide if a minor qualifies as a sustenance hunter.
As per Section 7 of the Firearms Act, individuals under 18 must complete the Canadian Firearms Safety Course and pass the test in order to get a licence. They are not eligible to challenge and attempt to pass the test without taking the course.
Individuals younger than 18 years of age are not eligible to hold a licence authorizing them to possess prohibited or restricted firearms.

The AR15 is a restricted weapon in Canada: available only to those who qualify as collectors or sports shooters. No one under 18 is eligible to possess one.

[gejohnston]

81. there are some things about Canadian gun laws I like to

annoy US antis about. Besides, it is an interesting country.
There are a lot of unrestricted guns that use the .223 round

[ileus]

41. I need one more so we all four will have our own.

I'm still building on my third now...6.8 or 300 blk, I can't decide.

My next one will be a little grade than my other 556's

[gejohnston]

42. the specific gun

is a carbine that uses a pistol round. Her grandpa's bolt action is a military "assault rifle" from a different era. Ever see Discovery Channel's "Tactical to Practical"? Same concept.

[PavePusher]

20. That is a current weapon in production and in use.

Almost exclusively by the military, and generally on aircraft.

When mounted in a light, non-armoured vehicle, the vehicle tends to flip over when fired.

If you find a cyborg carrying one, please take a picture and report it to the police.

[X_Digger]

51. There are four gun owners who don't hunt for every one who does.

Why should they all look like a politician at a photo op, or a piece for field and stream?

[ellisonz]

52. Why should they look like something out of a broke-ass Bourne movie? n/t

[X_Digger]

53. I'm not the one complaining at their appearance at all. I couldn't care less.

Tell me, what should the refined gun owner look like in your little world?

And more importantly, why should it matter what you think about them?

[ellisonz]

54. I voiced a simple opinion of the aesthetic...

...you're the one as always attempting to pass some ridiculousness off with a . My world is not little at all, my is world based in an understanding of the absurdity thrust upon us by the people of your mad world. This country has a problematic culture that glorifies gun use as something noble.



How about we stop thinking about that picture and start thinking about this one:


Accused Chardon High School gunman T.J. Lane is charged with delinquency by way of three counts of aggravated murder, two counts of attempted aggravated murder and felonious assault. Mark Duncan, Associated Press.

massive

[X_Digger]

55. So why should anyone care about the aesthetic?

I think your problem with the aesthetic above is that it's a normal teen. Can't have people thinking that normal people do things with guns besides duck and deer hunting.

Since most gun owners don't hunt, your aesthetic of what a gun owner should look like- is unrealistic.

And btw, nice distraction.

[ellisonz]

56. That ain't normal. n/t

[X_Digger]

57. Looks like teens in my local mall. Looks like guns I see at the range on the weekend.

Hell, it looks like teens I've seen at the local range, with similar rifles. One of my favorites recently was a deep purple anodized AR used by a kid with those large hoop-like things in his ears. He was shooting left-handed and we shared a chuckle over a couple of pieces of brass almost going through the hoops.

What's not normal?

When your version of 'normal' doesn't match reality, you can deny it or accept it.

Just don't expect the rest of us to agree.

[ellisonz]

58. And who made you the arbiter of reality...

Also, you do realize most of the rest of the Westernized world thinks we're fucking nuts right?

for you

[Glassunion]

61. Who defines normal?

[AH1Apache]

62. And why the fuck

should we care what the rest of the Westernized world thinks of us?

[ellisonz]

63. There's that American Exceptionalist attitude...

Here: lend your fellow 2A enthusiasts abroad a helping hand. It's the Christian thing to do...

[AH1Apache]

64. Nice dodge

[ellisonz]

65. lol

That's not a dodge. I dunno - why should we in your opinion care what the rest of the world cares about us at all them? Should we just do the Ron Paul get all isolationist?

[gejohnston]

66. has nothing to do with American Exceptionalism

unless you also say
Japan should care what the rest of the world thinks about whale hunting
Canada should care what the rest of the world thinks about clubbing baby seals
you get the picture.

[PavePusher]

75. Except that the lawful ownership of weapons isn't really the same...

as killing a possibly sentient species under false pretenses, or using a particularly inhumane and seemingly inefficient way to harvest fur and waste meat.

Please, come up with a better set of analogies...

[gejohnston]

76. hey it was late

and it was a long day. My bad.

I will say in my defense however, one could say to the Canadians and Japanese "where do you get off on looking down on us for our guns when whaling and seal clubbing is really fucked up (for the reasons you mentioned)."
or I could say they are more fucked up, which was kind of the point.

[PavePusher]

77. Agreed. Sorry for the snipe. n/t

[iverglas]

82. odd things to say

Japan should care what the rest of the world thinks about whale hunting

You think maybe it shouldn't?

You do know that the main issue in Japan's whaling is its effect on a global ecological issue, right?

Canada should care what the rest of the world thinks about clubbing baby seals

Hmm. Does the rest of the world get a say in what goes on in your slaughterhouses?

For somebody so fascinated with all things Canadian, I think you've been looking at too many decade-old photos of cute little whitecoats, and listening to too many non-Canadian movie stars and pop music celebrities to whom you wouldn't give the time of day if it were firearm deaths of human beings they were talking about.


Nothing to do with (US)American exceptionalism?

Okay. How about USAmerican arrogance?

When one's policies affect the rest of the world, and your domestic and foreign policies relating to firearms do, that might be the best way to characterize not giving a damn about what the rest of the world thinks.

On the other hand, just knowing that the rest of the world regards one as a laughing stock because of what one does inside one's own borders does, just in itself, give many people pause. If they don't feel just all naturally superior and all, anyhow.

[gejohnston]

83. I think Japan should care

that was not my point.
Last time I checked, Paul Watson is still a Canadian (he is a USAican too)

Our domestic firearms laws effect on other countries is greatly exaggerated.

[PavePusher]

19. Robert N. Krentz Jr will be happy to discuss your fucked-up cartoon with you.

Oh... wait... he's not available for conversation right now. And it has nothing to do with your vile stereotyping.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/us/05arizona.html

[ellisonz]

22. Good try PavePusher, but as the Rev. Al Sharpton would say, we gotcha...

White Hate Groups in Arizona according to the Southern Poverty Law Center:

American Border Patrol
Anti-Immigrant
Sierra Vista

American Third Position
White Nationalist
Mesa

Crusaders for Yahweh
Christian Identity
Phoenix

Faithful Word Baptist Church
Anti-Gay
Tempe

Free American
White Nationalist
Tucson

National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan

National Socialist Movement
Neo-Nazi
Phoenix

Nationalist Coalition
Neo-Nazi
Mesa

Sons of Aesir Motorcycle Club
General Hate

South Africa Project
White Nationalist

United Families International
Anti-Gay

Gilbert
United for a Sovereign America (USA)

Anti-Immigrant
Phoenix

US Border Guard & Border Rangers
Anti-Immigrant
Mesa

Vinlanders Arizona
Racist Skinhead
Mesa

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map#s=AZ

Nice try, but the facts clearly show that Arizona is a hotbed of White Hate Groups.

But wait, there's more...

Nativist Extremist Groups in Arizona:

ARIZONA (8)
American Freedom Riders
Phoenix

Federal Immigration Reform and Enforcement (FIRE) Coalition
Green Valley
North Phoenix
Phoenix
Pinal County
Tucson

Mohave County Residents for Constitutional Rights
Mohave County

Riders Against Illegal Aliens
Phoenix

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/nativist-extremist-groups-2011

And more:

Hate Group Lawyer Drafted Arizona’s Anti-Immigrant Law
Posted in Anti-Immigrant by Heidi Beirich on April 28, 2010

Arizona’s controversial anti-immigrant law was written by a lawyer at the legal arm of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), which the Southern Poverty Law Center has listed as an anti-immigrant hate group since 2007. The law, a recipe for racial profiling, would make the failure to carry immigration documents a crime and give the police broad power to detain anyone suspected of being in the country illegally. (See statement by SPLC Legal Director Mary Bauer.)

Kris Kobach, the author of the Arizona law and a lawyer at FAIR’s Immigration Reform Law Institute, has been the prime mover behind numerous ordinances that seek to punish those who aid and abet “illegal aliens,” including laws adopted in Farmer’s Branch, Texas, and Hazelton, Pa.

The laws have not done well and have cost some localities immense sums of money to defend. Recently, the city of Albertville, Ala., refused to work with Kobach on just such an ordinance, reportedly because of the high legal costs incurred by these other communities.

Before joining FAIR, Kobach served as U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft’s top immigration adviser. He then moved on to take charge of Department of Justice efforts to tighten border security after the 9/11 attacks. There, he developed a program — the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System — that called for close monitoring of men from Arab and Muslim nations, even legal U.S. residents. The program collapsed due to complaints of racial profiling and discrimination.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/04/28/hate-group-lawyer-drafted-arizona-anti-immigrant-law/

And more:

My cartoon is totally baseless - oh noes I'm engaging in vile stereotyping

[PavePusher]

23. Yep, they're here.

Which has nothing to do with self-defense while hunting or ranching in areas transited by drug- and person-smugglers.

Perhaps you missed this: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/armed-guards-ensuring-safety-of-organ-pipe-tours/article_ff023cb3-993e-51e2-932d-9fac0015a356.html previously posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/117222401



If you think I'm trying to push or defend racism, please alert the mods at once. Otherwise, stop side-tracking.

Thou art... artful: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm


Edit: The groups you list above are not a majority here, and you do not get a free pass to broad-brush smear the entire state due to a minority of assholes. Go clean out your own viper-pits, then get back to us. Noteably, many, if not most, of those vile fucks came here from other states.

[ellisonz]

24. If you think higher capacity magazines and suppressors are necessary...

...for self-defense while hunting or ranching from smugglers I'd question your understanding of the border war. Smugglers are not generally looking for trouble as their goal is decidedly not to get in a firefight with the locals. They're like bears, they really aren't looking for trouble but if you threaten them your best answer is generally not to shoot it out but to back away. The answer here is not to encourage even more wild west type behavior on the part of civilians - what does this law do besides allow even more dangerous arms into civilian hands?

I'm glad to see you agree there is a hate group problem in Arizona and the Southwest in general.

[gejohnston]

44. they don't like witnesses either

the suppressors are for noise pollution. The are required in some hunting areas in Finland and France. Many target ranges in France require them as well.

[ileus]

27. What do hate groups have to do with hunting game animals?

[PavePusher]

30. This:

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm

[ellisonz]

32. What do high capacity magazines and suppressors have to do with hunting game animals? n/t

[ileus]

40. mufflers are great, mags are a bonus I suppose.

I hope in another hear to have a muffler for hunting. Normally when hunting with my ar I only use my 20's but if you want to carry 30's that's fine.

I have mostly 20's anyway...best size IMHO.

[eqfan592]

74. A lot of firearms that would typically be used for hunting...

...also come standard with "high capacity magazines" as well, meaning that if somebody wants to hunt with the rifle they have to by specific hunting magazines for the rifle. It's a pointless exercise that does nothing to improve safety and just increases the costs to the hunter.

Suppressors are nice because they reduce the amount of damage being done to the ears of the hunter, as well as not disturbing other people and wildlife at a great distance. Suppressors do not work as they do in the movies, and a suppressed rifle will still make a very audible noise , it just wont be as damaging.

[cherokeeprogressive]

67. It looks like it's entirely possible neither you OR the good reverend have been to Arizona...

Nope... nothing but white people Arizona, hatin' on everyone who ain't like them. Mmmm hmmmm.

And your stupid cartoon isn't only baseless, it's fucking wrong.

http://www.epa.gov/region9/air/maps/az_tribe.html

[ellisonz]

68. Well..

I believe the tribes are "sovereign" - so their land and people aren't technically part of the State of Arizona - they deal with the Bureau of Indian Affairs and not the individual state, although they may certainly work with them. I think you know that though...

My cartoon is exactly what it is, a political cartoon, it's comedy, it's supposed to provoke, it's not supposed to be taken as anything beyond exactly what it is, a political cartoon; it's not the gospel, although political cartoons may certainly depict Jesus

And for the record, there are a number of militias and extremist groups (including Neo-Nazis) who are involving themselves with "border patrol, you may have read about Jeff Hall who was in the news quite a bit:


Mr. Hall, center, showed a fellow N.S.M. member how to pull a knife from his belt in Arizona, in preparation for a border patrol. Julie Platner for The New York Times

[oneshooter]

69. Acually it just shows your bias against the southern states.

I would call it a form of racism, but that would upset you too much.

[cherokeeprogressive]

70. No Indians off the reservation huh?

"Aren't technically part of the State of Arizona"

Put the shovel down. The hole's deep enough.

[gejohnston]

71. some microscopic

group of assholes are supposed to be representative of white people of Arizona? Here is a newsflash, California has their share too.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map#s=CA

They don't have the PR.

[AH1Apache]

26. Yeah right

because we all know that Az has no hispanics or AA. I find this to be very distasteful in the least

[Logical]

14. nothing wrong with this law! n-t

[Remmah2]

28. From a hunting perspective, high capacity magazines promote a wast of ammo.

You're not a rifleman/hunter if you have to take that many shots. My brother has put a significant number of deer in the freezer with an old single shot shotgun I sold him 30 years ago. (Guess that makes me a straw buyer.)

High capacity magazines belong on home defense and personal defense firearms as necesary to defend against single/multiple attackers.

[PavePusher]

33. I'll still hunt with 3-5 round mags....

but if I'm doing it here in southern AZ, it would be nice to know that I could have a few full-capacity magazines at hand in case I ran into the wrong people and they tried to express their feelings about my inconvenient timing.

[Remmah2]

39. I guess that's something to consider.

Many years ago when I hunted I wandered upon some private hemp fields secluded on the owners farm. Not his, a total mystery. Nothing large. However should the person owning the crop have been around it could have created a situation.

Funny ending. No one ever picked the crop. It ended up being combined w/the rest of the corn. Guess that's how they make happy cows. I wonder if the cows got the munchies?

[spin]

72. I remember when I first moved to Florida many years ago ...

I was talking to a hunter who had an incident involving another hunter with a high capacity magazine. My friend and his buddy were on one side of a clearing when a deer walked into it. Just as they were aiming their rifles, a hunter on the opposite side of the clearing shot at the deer and missed. The deer ran and the hunter who first shot at him fired 29 additional rounds. My friend and his buddy were busy attempting to find cover as they were "downrange".

Several years later, Florida limited magazine capacity while hunting.

I have never participated in hunting, but in talking to hunters I have learned that if you carefully aim and miss your first shot, your chances of hitting the game on follow up shots go down hill rapidly. I feel a follow up shot might be useful if you wounded the animal but any more than 5 rounds in a magazine are basically useless.

Even if you were hunting an enormous feral hog and you failed to bring him down with your first shot and instead merely pissed him off, you would have four additional rounds to stop him before he reached you and tore your leg up with his razor sharp tusks. Any more than that would probably be useless as you would probably find yourself up a tree with your rifle on the ground. That's why it might be a damn good idea to carry a large caliber revolver in a holster on your belt when hunting hog.

As I have said, I am not a hunter. When I talk about the subject, I am like a person who has no knowledge about firearms and the gun culture talking about gun control. If you are a hunter, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[sarisataka]

80. You are basically correct

We would do some varmint hunting in the Dakotas for ranchers. Due to human action the predator/prey ecosystem was out of sorts. Assassinating the critters is better than indiscriminate poisoning. Hi-cap magazines were a convenience.

The paradox with large, dangerous game is that the greater caliber you need to be effective does not lend itself to accurate follow up shots. When you piss off Mr Bear or Boar and he heads over to shove your boomstick up your derriere, you won't have time for more than a few shots.

[ellisonz]

78. And of course...

Camo-clad men kill two immigrants in Arizona

[friendly_iconoclast]

84. Keep at it, e.z. You're doing a fine job of convincing those that already agree with you.

One rarely sees this level of tone-deaf propagandizing outside the Republican presidential primary fight...

[ellisonz]

85. I could alert on that...

...but I think I'll just add another one to the ignore list.

[oneshooter]

86. Just like I am!

[GreenStormCloud]

87. OMG! We need to outlaw camo-clothes for civilians. N/T