Georgia Senate Approves Pair of Gun Bills: Concealed Carry at 18, Return Stolen Guns

[shadowrider]

Video at link

The Georgia Senate has approved two pro-gun bills, one that would require authorities to return stolen guns to their lawful owners and one that would lower the concealed carry license age requirement from 21 to 18.

Senate Bill 350 would require law enforcement agencies throughout the state to return all seized firearms, not being held as evidence, to their lawful owners no later than 30 days after the court renders its final judgment.

(SNIP)

This bill would lower the CCW permit age requirement from 21 to 18 provided the applicant satisfies certain requirements, including certified training.

The certified training requirements are as follows:

• Four hours of classroom instruction on gun-related laws, proper gun-handling methods and fundamentals of gun operation.
• Four hours of instruction on a firearms range.
• A written examination on classroom material and a practical examination on a firearms range.

http://www.guns.com/georgia-senate-gun-bills-concealed-carry-18-21-sotlen-guns.html

More backlash

[Hoyt]

1. Right wing, backwards legislature. Next, they'll be putting confederate flag over capitol again.

[shadowrider]

2. Hint: It's already flying over the capital

The confederate national flag



The Georgia state flag



What's the difference?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. Most people do not realize that is the flag correctly called the "stars and bars"

Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2012, 07:36 PM - Edit history (1)

[shadowrider]

9. You're correct.

I've often said the current flag is more confederate than the one it replaced (Which was only the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, the only really viable force for the 2nd half of the war. In fact, each state, and sometimes individual armies within the state, had their own battle flag).

[Hoyt]

10. It's not the crossed battle flag which has become a symbol for hatred like the swastika.

Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2012, 04:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Where I live, you often find that hatred flag on the front of vehicles and an NRA sticker on back. They go together.

Although in this state -- with a right wing controlled legislature -- just about any flag would be a symbol of hatred. Try being Hispanic here nowadays.

[shadowrider]

13. I'm having a difficult time understanding the line

"It's not the battle flag that is a symbol for hatred like the swastika"

Explain please. It makes no sense to me.

[Hoyt]

14. Simple - both confederate flag and swastika are symbols of hatred.

Do you think they are not, or what?

[shadowrider]

15. Wait.

You said the confederate flag would go back up over the capital

I pointed out it was already there. You responded and I didn't understand the first line, thought it was missing a comma or something.

That's all, nothing more, nothing less.

[Hoyt]

20. I fixed it for you. You are correct, it was poorly worded -- but true.

[shadowrider]

19. I get it now, after re-reading it about a hundred times

You're opposed to the battle flag and not a confederate flag that is more confederate than the one it replaced. You should have said so in the first place and I could've saved a bunch of keystrokes. I'd have agreed with you.

[Callisto32]

4. Hierarchy of title recognition is...

backward?

Boy, that's day 1 "Property I" class stuff in every 2-bit (and Ivy League) law school in the U.S.

[shadowrider]

5. Unless it's guns

Then returning confiscated property is a bad thing. Ain't you got the memo?

[aikoaiko]

16. As a Democrat who lives in GA -- you don't know what you're talking about.

Its really very embarrassing for you.

[shadowrider]

18. Never interrupt an enemy when he is making a mistake - Sun Tzu

Shadows corollary: Never interrupt an anti when they're in the process of making ill-informed statements that are damaging to their cause.

[Hoyt]

31. Are you denying that right wing Republicans are the vast majority of Georgia's legislature.

Or are you saying you like/accept the laws they pass that hurt the poor, discriminate against Hispanics, etc., because guns are so important to you?

[shadowrider]

32. Talk about a "gotcha" post

[oneshooter]

33. Why don't ya answer post #29?

[aikoaiko]

36. In this case they are not hurting the poor, discriminating against Hispanics, etc.

Let's take a look at who sponsored and who voted for SB 350 since you attributed it to republican politics:

First: it was sponsored by two republican and two democrats. You owe these Democrats and their constituents an apology.

Second: 14 out of 18 Democratic senators voted for 350. You owe these Democrats and their constituents an apology, too.

http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/vote.aspx?VoteID=8890

Senator (District) City
Albers, John (Republican)56 Roswell
Balfour, Don (Republican)9 Snellville
Bethel, Charlie (Republican)54 Dalton
Bulloch, John (Republican)11 Ochlocknee
Butler, Gloria S. (Democrat)55 Stone Mountain
Carter, Buddy (Republican)1 Pooler
Carter, Jason (Democrat)42 Decatur
Chance, Ronnie (Republican)16 Tyrone
Cowsert, Bill (Republican)46 Athens
Crane, Mike (Republican)28 Newnan
Crosby, John (Republican)13 Tifton
Davenport, Gail (Democrat)44 Jonesboro
Davis, Hardie (Democrat)22 Augusta
Fort, Vincent (Democrat)39 Atlanta
Ginn, Frank (Republican)47 Danielsville
Goggans, Greg (Republican)7 Douglas
Golden, Tim (Republican)8 Valdosta
Gooch, Steve (Republican)51 Dahlonega
Grant, Johnny (Republican)25 Milledgeville
Hamrick, Bill (Republican)30 Carrollton
Harbison, Ed (Democrat)15 Columbus
Heath, Bill (Republican)31 Bremen
Henson, Steve (Democrat)41 Tucker
Hill, Jack (Republican)4 Reidsville
Hill, Judson (Republican)32 Marietta
Hooks, George (Democrat)14 Americus
Jackson, Bill (Republican)24 Appling
Jackson, Lester G. (Democrat)2 Savannah
James, Donzella (Democrat)35 Atlanta
Jeffares, Rick (Republican)17 Locust Grove
Jones, Emanuel (Democrat)10 Decatur
Ligon, Jr., William T. (Republican)3 Brunswick
Loudermilk, Barry (Republican)52 Cassville
McKoon, Joshua (Republican)29 Columbus
Millar, Fran (Republican)40 Atlanta
Miller, Butch (Republican)49 Gainesville
Mullis, Jeff (Republican)53 Chickamauga
Murphy, Jack (Republican)27 Cumming
Orrock, Nan (Democrat)36 Atlanta
Paris, Miriam (Democrat)26 Macon
Ramsey, Sr., Ronald B. (Democrat)43 Decatur
Rogers, Chip (Republican)21 Woodstock
Seay, Valencia (Democrat)34 Riverdale
Shafer, David (Republican)48 Duluth
Sims, Freddie Powell (Democrat)12 Dawson
Staton, Cecil (Republican)18 Macon
Stone, Jesse (Republican)23 Waynesboro
Stoner, Doug (Democrat)6 Smyrna
Tate, Horacena (Democrat)38 Atlanta
Thompson, Curt (Democrat)5 Tucker
Thompson, Steve (Democrat)33 Marietta
Tippins, Lindsey (Republican)37 Marietta
Tolleson, Ross (Republican)20 Perry
Unterman, Renee S (Republican)45 Buford
Wilkinson, John (Republican)50 Toccoa
Williams, Tommie (Republican)19 Lyons

In truth the other bill had less Democratic support, but still owe those Democrats an apology too.
http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/vote.aspx?VoteID=8890

[Hoyt]

40. I don't owe anyone an apology for voting for a bill after it is already set for passage.

In a red state, there is no need to take an unpopular stance that is going to pass by a wide majority of the right wingers anyway. That's politics.

And I certainly don't owe them an apology for potentially helping pass a bill that will put more guns (and racists) on the streets.

[aikoaiko]

41. You don't get it, do you? You're in a shrinking minority even in the Democratic party.

Your position is bankrupt and you're losing much more than you're winning.

[Hoyt]

42. A lot of Democrats in Georgia are right wing, always have been.

As to support of guns among true Democrats -- we have what 30 or so here compared to 100K regular DUers. Fact is, a small percentage of people feel compelled to carry guns in public -- and most of them are right winger who carry to intimidate.

[gejohnston]

43. since most are concealed

how can you be intimidated by what you can't see? Among those 100K regular DUers, how many are prohibitionists? How many are for reasonable control (which may or may not be already law), or agnostic? I'm betting prohibitionists are fewer that CCW. Most are probably are agnostic or are OK with current laws if they knew what they are.

[friendly_iconoclast]

45. A question that bears repeating: How can you be intimidated by something you can't see?

And here's another for our man in Georgia- Can you reconcile these two conflicting statements you've made?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x471849#471995

Further, every citizen should report anyone carrying a gun in public -- Maybe even hold them until police arrive.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/117221602#post38

And, you don't understand things. It may not be the police's job, but it's not some yahoo's either.

[shadowrider]

48. I remember him saying

If he was at Mickey D's and someone came in with an OC weapon, he'd get in their faces.

[aikoaiko]

46. No, the Democrats are in GA are not right wing.

They believe in civil liberties. Remember those.

You say there are only about 30 members who post here regularly who support the RKBA and you don't think that's much, but there are even fewer willing to fight promote gun restrictions.

Again, you're in the minority.

[ellisonz]

47. "Dixiecrats"

The States' Rights Democratic Party (usually called the Dixiecrats) was a short-lived segregationist political party in the United States in 1948. It originated as a breakaway faction of the Democratic Party in 1948, determined to protect what they portrayed as the southern way of life beset by an oppressive federal government,[1] and supporters assumed control of the state Democratic parties in part or in full in several Southern states. The States' Rights Democratic Party opposed racial integration and wanted to retain Jim Crow laws and white supremacy in the face of possible federal intervention. Members were called Dixiecrats. (The term Dixiecrat is a portmanteau of Dixie, referring to the Southern United States, and Democrat.)

The party did not run local or state candidates and after the 1948 election as its leaders generally returned to the Democratic Party.[2] The Dixiecrats had little short-run impact on politics. However, they did have a long-term impact. The Dixiecrats began the weakening of the "Solid South" (the Democratic Party's total control of presidential elections in the South).[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrats

[gejohnston]

49. he or she said "are" as in present tense

Dixiecrats like Strom Thurmand became Republicans. Trent Lott is probably the youngest former Dixiecrat.

[oneshooter]

29. so you don't believe that property that was stolen, and recovered by the Police

should be returned to the rightfull and legal owners?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[oneshooter]

44. By your silence I will take it as a no. You do believe that recovered goods are to be destroyed by

the authorities. Let it be noted as so.

[Possumpoint]

3. Wait A Hold It

If your property is stolen, and the police have it, it's not needed for a court case, why shouldn't it be returned to you because its a gun?

As to the concealed carry permits, I'm not a big fan. Think in modern times it creates more problems then it solves.

[Callisto32]

6. You think wrongly.

The data are in, and CCW, well, it just isn't the problem you perceive it to be.

[mvccd1000]

11. Me, too.

What's the point to an entire bureaucracy dedicated to issuing you a permission slip to put on your jacket when the evening cools off?

Vermont/Alaska/Wyoming/Arizona-style is the way to go; get the government out of the equation.

[Atypical Liberal]

12. You may be interested in looking at the conviction data for CCW permit holders

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=374332

CCW permit holders are much less likely to be involved in any kind of crime, let alone firearm-related crime, than any other random person you might encounter on the street.

Statistically, you'd be safer surrounded by only CCW permit holders than random people from the public.

[Hoyt]

21. "Conviction rate?" Most of gun carriers have friends like armed bigot that shot innocent Black kid

Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2012, 04:51 PM - Edit history (1)

in Florida. Why? Because the majority of gun carriers are right wing Republicans. They don't get convicted very often, and push for all kinds of laws that will protect them if they screw up and shoot some poor guy who looked scary.

So some gun toter who reaches in his pocket to warn a group of teenagers that he's a bad armed motherfucker likely would not be convicted. But he's still guilty of being an ass. And, never forget the indirect effects of all this guns in public BS.

[X_Digger]

25. Lawl, now it's a conspiracy!?!

I think you need a few more layers of tin foil.

[Atypical Liberal]

27. So your assertion is that CCW permit holders actually commit lots of crimes but don't get caught.

So your assertion is that CCW permit holder in reality commit lots of crimes and just don't get caught.

Do you have any data to support your theory?

[Hoyt]

28. Of course not, they weren't caught. Hence no data.

[Atypical Liberal]

30. Glad you admit you are making unfounded claims.

[Hoyt]

34. I made a "founded" claim. In politics there is not always data because we are looking to future.

[hack89]

35. Founded on what? Besides your personal bias that is. nt

[oneshooter]

38. Just man up and admit it, you lied.

[Atypical Liberal]

39. Lack of data = unfounded speculation. In science we look at data and *then* make predictions.

Geeze you are as bad as the climate change deniers.

[one-eyed fat man]

50. Well, you should have seen this coming

Since you are so expert in "looking to future" (sic) why haven't you won the Georgia lottery yet? Or are you holding out for the Powerball?

[Hoyt]

22. Ha, but they are no less likely than an individual who qualifies for a permit but

refuses to strap a gun on before venturing out. Gun carriers are not less likely to commit a crime than those who could qualify for a permit but say, "why the fuck should people be carrying a gun in a modern society?"

And I am positive those carrying guns are MUCH MORE LIKELY to discharge a weapon in public that those who don't carry guns. Even you can't argue with that. Well . . . . . .

[shadowrider]

23. Hoyt, honestly, your next to last sentence makes no sense

And I am positive those carrying guns are MUCH MORE LIKELY to discharge a weapon in public that those who don't carry guns

And I can prove red cars are not involved in any accidents involving blue or gold cars. But put a red car on the road and the chances go up.

If you don't have it, of course it won't discharge. If you do, the chances are there but very small among legal CCW holders.

[Hoyt]

24. Makes a lot of sense. You are more likely to discharge a gun than I and other non-toters.

It's a fact, although I was mistaken that everyone can see that. Of course, you can cut your risk of discharging a firearm and perhaps killing an innocent person by leaving them at home.

You guys keep repeating this bull about the gun-carrying culture is less likely to commit a crime. And that's true if you throw in those who can't qualify for a permit because they are criminals who can't pass background check.

But the vast majority of the population could get a permit -- if they felt they just couldn't leave home without a gun -- but they choose not to do so. They are as law-abiding, perhaps more so, than those who carry a gun.

[Atypical Liberal]

26. Yes, but you don't get to pick those kinds of people to surround yourself with.

. Ha, but they are no less likely than an individual who qualifies for a permit but refuses to strap a gun on before venturing out.

True, but when you compare CCW permit holders against everyone else in society that you are likely to encounter, which includes people who could carry and choose not to, CCW permit holders are still many times less likely to be involved in any kind of crime.

You keep trying to select a subset of the population to compare against, and that's not honest.

When you compare CCW permit holders against the rest of society you are likely to encounter in public, CCW permit holders are much safer people.

Gun carriers are not less likely to commit a crime than those who could qualify for a permit but say, "why the fuck should people be carrying a gun in a modern society?"

But compared to everyone else in society, they are.

You don't get to choose to live in a society only with good people in it. There are bad people in it also. So when you compare CCW permit holders against everyone else in society you are likely to encounter, which includes good people and bad people, CCW permit holders are much less likely to be involved in any kind of crime.

And I am positive those carrying guns are MUCH MORE LIKELY to discharge a weapon in public that those who don't carry guns. Even you can't argue with that. Well . . . . .

True, but that is another fantasy scenario as there are always people carrying guns.

[ileus]

7. Congrats to our Ga friends on their restored freedoms.

Imagine that the state giving people their property back.

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. Some of our GA friends could use some brushing up on history and property law...

[DonP]

37. Georgia gun control efforts must be pathetic

It seems that Georgia is getting "looser and looser" on gun control.

It might indicate that the efforts of Georgia's supposed gun control supporters range from merely whiny and pathetic to just plain sucks.

My guess is they have no real gun control efforts and just a handful of loudmouth whiners that only talk and never actually do anything.

OTOH, Illinois turned out 9,000 to 10,000 pro gun supporters in the states capital last week, marching for concealed carry.

I think they call that an "enthusiasm gap".