A warning shot to the shoulder.

[ileus]

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/03/10/man-shot-at-detroit-gas-station-reportedly-over-price-of-condoms/

He said the customer bought a box of condoms, but made a comment that he was overcharged and could have bought them somewhere else for a cheaper price. After being told he couldn’t get a refund, the customer allegedly began tossing items off the shelves. That’s when, according to the employee, the overnight clerk came out with a gun and fired a warning shot, which struck the customer in the shoulder.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Always carry protection...

[CBGLuthier]

1. He died.

But at least you got a good laugh out of it.

[jeepnstein]

2. Someone's going to get charged on this one.

If the guy was just going off and doing property damage without threatening the clerk with bodily harm or death it will not go very well.

The part I find amusing is that Detroit is going to require station owners to hire security guards, presumably armed. Given the razor-thin profit margin that you deal with in the gasoline C-Store business that will mean businesses will close in the rougher neighborhoods. Perhaps if the city would step up police protection in the trouble areas? Oh, yeah, right, that won't work because there's no money for that. So they expect business owners to hire armed guards? There are easier ways to make a buck than that.

I worked in a C-store in a high-crime area for several years. It was always a gamble whether it was going to be a good night or a nightmare. I actually saw a group of young men who were trying to get their lives straightened out attempt to rob an old man at our pumps. I had to step in and save them from him. He was a terminally ill WWII vet, a real Marine Raider, and he still had his knife. We had lots of adventures at that place.

[GreenStormCloud]

4. Crime causes poverty.

In high crime areas, as businesses close they also close jobs too. If they hire armed security then they have to increase their prices. And they have to raise prices to cover the losses from theft and vandalism.

If the business is manufacturing and shipping the goods away from the area then they are having to compete with like business from other area that don't have to hire that kind of security. The business will start to fail and either close up or move.

If the business is a local store then they will have to raise their prices to the local folks, meaning that prices in high-crime areas will be higher than for the same stuff in a lower crime area.

[Atypical Liberal]

7. Why can't the store clerk also be the armed guard?

Why is it ok for one minimum-wage employee to be armed but not another?

[jeepnstein]

12. Works for me.

I somehow suspect that's not what the City Councilman is wanting, though. He probably lives in a world where you have to be a "professional" in order to carry a weapon. You know, have a uniform and stuff.

True story, totally irrelevant but I'll just invoke Freedom of Speech here...

The store my family ran was in a neighborhood that was seeing a rash of armed robberies. I mean like two a night. Some times the guy would go back to the same place twice. He was totally brazen and operating way outside the bounds of normal and decent behavior. So one evening he walks into my store, looks around, buys a pack of Marlboros with a twenty dollar bill and then leaves. Within fifteen minutes a cop is in our store wanting to know if we saw "Billy" recently. I told them yes and described the transaction. Turns out he walked down the street and robbed another place right after he left our store.

Well, the detective was curious. "How is it he stopped by your place first and then robbed the store down the street?". Then he looked around at the group of guys who were loafing at my place. We had a Federal Marshall, a HSLD operator who was in the Nuclear Transportation industry, a cop from another jurisdiction, an undercover narc, a retired old-school cop from Mansfield, and a stressed out old guy with PTSD from Viet Nam all hanging out drinking coffee. It looked like deer camp in there. Oh, and our favorite FFL was there showing me a new shotgun. That mix, or at least parts of it, was my nightly security force. There was also a German Shepherd sleeping behind the counter. We all just laughed at him. I figure the cross fire would have been devastating and messy. My plan was to hit the floor and save the dog. I miss that dog.

[GreenStormCloud]

3. More information is needed.

On the face of it this appears to be a bad shoot, but where were the items located? Had the customer come behind the counter and was behaving violently in throwing stuff around? Was he threatening the clerk? Details can make a huge difference.

[shadowrider]

5. Agreed. On the surface it looks like the clerk just shot a guy knocking stuff off the shelves

and we all know the media is relentless in their pursuit of the truth and would never misrepresent the incident to push a gun control agenda, right?

[jpak]

11. Shooting at someone knocking stuff off a shelf is an appropriate response

This is why gun nuttery will fail.

yup

[spin]

19. How many people who actually own firearms or have licenses to carry would agree with you? ...

According to the article all the victim was doing was to toss items off the shelves. This in no way threatened the clerk with serious bodily injury or death. Therefore, assuming the report is accurate, a call to 911 would have been appropriate. The clerk should face prosecution for his action.

I should also point out that firing a warning shot to deter criminal activity is a poor idea. A warning shot indicates that the attack was not serious enough to require lethal force.



.

[Clames]

6. I wonder when those who suggest shooting to wound...

...will chime in? They seem to advocate shooting in an extremity yet didn't understand such shots could be just as fatal. Here's proof for them.

From what I’m understanding, the price of a condom should not be somebody’s life,” said Scott.

Well, that's usually the cost of a condom if you think about it...

[shadowrider]

8. It's been pointed out to them that shooting to wound

can easily result in a fatality. This does prove that.

[slackmaster]

9. Looks like a training issue

I have been taught repeatedly and consistently by self-defense instructors NEVER to fire a warning shot when you are engaging a human.

It may be appropriate to scare off a wild animal, but never a human.

[shadowrider]

10. Again, not enough info to decide

Maybe the guy knocked some stuff off the shelves and made a move to get behind the counter. The clerk, in fear of his life, fired.

Maybe the guy had a handheld weapon.

Until the facts are in, I'm going to withhold judgment.

Not that the anti-gun media would ever leave out facts.

[safeinOhio]

13. Latest update from Freepress

According to investigators, Saleh was in a bullet-proof booth when Haynes questioned the high price of the condoms. After the argument, Haynes pushed over shelves of merchandise as he walked out.
Worthy said prosecutors have video evidence in the case.
"It is alleged that Mr. Saleh exited the enclosed room armed with a handgun and shot Haynes in the back as he was leaving the station," Worthy said, adding that claims that Saleh shot into the ceiling to scare Haynes were untrue.
http://www.freep.com/article/20120313/NEWS05/120313010/Charges-coming-in-case-of-BP-shooting-over-condoms?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Looks like the police have video, enough to charge murder and felony firearm. In Michigan you can be a legal firearm possessor and be charged with felony firearm possession if you commit a felony with that firearm.
Shot the man in the back as leaving the store, on video.

Any more defenders of this guy? Anymore doubt about the facts? Any of you want to change your minds about your post? Anyone think more training and testing for firearm owners and carriers might prevent this kind of shit?

[shadowrider]

14. First,

I never defended the guy, I said wait for more info.

That info is out there. The clerk was most definitely wrong, according to this article.

He should be punished severely, if the info in this article is true.

[safeinOhio]

16. Yes "The clerk was most definitely wrong"

and it looks like your attack on the press wrong and you jumped the gun on that.


Post 5, you are wrong about the press and the opposite is true. Looks like some extreme gun rights advocates "would never misrepresent the incident to push a gun" rights "agenda, right?"

You were wrong in post #8. This does not prove that.

You post number #10 is wrong about the media again, as the police site the video. The facts were not left out.

Extremest on both sides of this issue are more concerned with pushing their agenda than dealing with just the facts.

[shadowrider]

17. You can't deny the media is anti-gun

I waited for the full story and the article you posted has additional information.

The man needs to pay for this transgression.

[GreenStormCloud]

20. Thanks for the additional info. Definately a bad shoot. N/T

[safeinOhio]

15. I work at night, alone, in a gas station.

We are trained to return any item, if you know it was purchase at our store for any reason, on the spot, to make the customer happy. Especially if the customer is irate. Works for me. I'm not going to shoot anyone or even get in an argument over five bucks of the stores money with what they pay me.
I had a man mad about the price of a box of condoms a few weeks ago, five bucks for a box of three. I told him it was still cheaper than diapers. He smiled and agreed. It's really not that hard.

[Logical]

18. If the story is he only was being destructive, not threatening, he deserves jail time.

[Kennah]

21. Based on reporting thus far, the clerk will do time