I'm gonna' hate myself for doing this . . . .

[flamin lib]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/126210390

[DonP]

1. SoP???

[hack89]

2. It must chap your ass that the public doesn't agree with you.

let's not forget that an organization with a certified moron in its leadership (Ted Nugent) is kicking your ass on a regular basis.

[Big_Mike]

18. To be fair, their side has Mikey Bloomberg.

Speaking of certifiable morons, that is.

[hack89]

3. America reduced their murder and manslaughter rates by 50%

perhaps SA should adopt our laws.

[Jackson3000]

6. And lets not forget Austalia

From the time Australia's laws took effect, the homicide rate in the US has dropped MORE than it has in Australia.

[gejohnston]

4. it mentions South Africa's 2000 law

I didn't know automatic weapons were legal.

Around 49 people are murdered in South Africa each day.[5] The murder rate increased rapidly in the late 1980s and early 1990s.[6] Between 1994 and 2009, the murder rate halved from 67 to 34 murders per 100,000 people.[7] Between 2011 and 2015, it stabilized to around 32 homicides per 100,000 people although the total number of lives lost has increased due to the increase in population.[5] There have been numerous press reports on the manipulation of crime statistics that have highlighted the existence of incentives not to record violent crime.[8] Nonetheless, murder statistics are considered accurate.[9]

The drop began before the law was passed, therefore there is no connection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_legislation_in_South_Africa

It looks like the murder rate bottomed out in 2011 and started to rise again
http://www.iol.co.za/news/sas-murder-statistics-in-7-charts-1925800

BTW, why was it published in a medical journal and not, say, a criminology journal where it would be peer reviewed by experts with relevant expertise?

Why did Venezuela's complete ban do nothing? Australia's NFA? Why did ours drop even though states have been liberalizing CCW? Why did crime increase after the GCA was passed?

[flamin lib]

5. Like I said, cue the Gungeoneers . . . nt

[gejohnston]

7. or any open minded person who bothers to do their own research

Ultimately, both sides have to convince those on the fence. Carrying ARs in Denny's does more harm to one side's cause. When the other side insults their intelligence, it pisses them off.
Not that the politicians give a rat's ass what we think anyway, but I digress.
People are brighter and more curious than pundits give them credit for. That is why pundit shows have low ratings. When you take away dentists waiting rooms, CNN and Fox would have ratings like MSNBC.

[flamin lib]

11. Sigh. You're constant harping on criminologists is so tiring. Does it not occur to you that asking

one criminologist to support another is akin to asking one cop to back up the the other cop who shot that black guy who was reaching for his waistband? Kleck backs up Lott who backs up Kleck. Neither could research their way out of a paper bag with instructions and a razor blade.

No, ge, if anyone is contemplating their navel from the inside it's the Gungeon.

[gejohnston]

13. Really?

Actually, Kleck backed up studies dating back to the Hart study in the 1970s. Kleck also won the Michael J. Hindelang Award from the American Society of Criminology for said study. Anti science and anti intellectual much?

BTW, what about the black cop who shot the white guy who was reaching in his waistband? It happened in Salt Lake the same week Wilson shot Brown. Not a fan of race baiting either.

[flamin lib]

15. Ok, so I say that using a criminologist to back up a criminologist is not reliable

and you come back with another criminology reference?

It's not race baiting, it's circular reasoning baiting. Your constant relying on internal support for a stance not supported by any outside source is, at best, entertaining.

[gejohnston]

16. Lott isn't a criminologist

he is an economist. There is also such a thing as the scientific method, something the studies in Vox doesn't follow. The Bloomberg funded studies start with the conclusion they want and create a study to fit the narrative. I am depending on valid studies that are verifiable, not racist Bloomberg funded shill studies.

[flamin lib]

17. No, you're not. You are doing what you accuse others of doing. nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

21. Next thing you know he'll be using climatologists to debate climatology.

[friendly_iconoclast]

22. You said it, Sister NU! He should be using experts like the ex-head of publicity for Monsanto...

[pablo_marmol]

19. "Sigh. You're constant harping on criminologists is so tiring." (Try *your*)

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Why listen to highly-credentialed professionals when you can take your cues (as Rachel Maddow does) from willfully-ignorant talking heads such as Richard Wolffe and E.J. Dionne?

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Gun-Weapons-Violence-America/dp/0202303055/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456992666&sr=1-1&keywords=james+wright+under+the+gun

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Considered-Dangerous-Firearms-Paperback/dp/0202305422/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456992711&sr=1-1&keywords=james+wright+armed+and+considered+dangerous

http://www.amazon.com/Restricting-Handguns-Liberal-Skeptics-Speak/dp/0884270335/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456992787&sr=1-1&keywords=restricting+handguns+the+liberal+skeptics+speak+out

http://www.amazon.com/Targeting-Guns-Firearms-Control-Institutions/dp/0202305694/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456992828&sr=1-2&keywords=targeting+guns+gary+kleck

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Gary-Kleck/dp/1573928836/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456992867&sr=1-1&keywords=kates+kleck

[ileus]

9. You can't cue those that have no voice.

[theatre goon]

10. So, your intention was not to have discussion...?

That seems... odd.

I guess that would be one way of avoiding supporting otherwise unsupported assertions, but it doesn't seem to be a very compelling tactic.

[flamin lib]

12. Good to see ya back. How long ya gonna last this time? nt

[theatre goon]

14. I'm not sure what you mean.

I only started posting at all at DU pretty recently -- unless you're accusing me of being a former poster here returning under a new name. If such is the case, you are incorrect. It's not like I expect people who make that sort of accusation to care about accuracy, but whatever works for you...

[ileus]

8. Thanks anyway but I'll keep my progressive 2A rights.

The only study I need is mine.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

20. Good to know but...

...hating yourself is counterproductive, kind of like most of gun-control today.