Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 07:41 AM Feb 2016

Why the US love affair with guns concerns us all – and 25 curious facts

Anyone following international news in recent months will be struck by the fact that the gun control debate in the United States has stepped up a gear. President Obama has spoken out numerous times on the issue, calling for more gun control reforms to make mass shootings “rare as opposed to normal”. Now it has become a “big difference” in the Democratic race between Hilary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.

This is an issue that clearly needs to be addressed. In a country with more than 300 million firearms, there were at least 13,381 firearm deaths in 2015. Its relevance, though, in the lives of most Europeans seems, at first, to be nothing more than macabre fascination. What does America’s love affair with the gun have to do with us?

Certainly, there are major differences in cultural and legal approaches. Ireland’s government accepts what the US struggles to – that gun control works. Recent changes in the firearms law testify to this, with Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald saying: “I am determined to prevent any proliferation of handgun availability in Ireland.” And while many of the civilians who own an estimated 300,000 guns in Ireland might find the current laws too strict to their liking, few acknowledge the US model is one to be copied. As one Irish firearms dealer said, they wanted nothing to do with US gun culture for whenever the subject was brought up it ended up discrediting law-abiding gun owners in Ireland.

But even if you are not a gun owner, the US gun debate should concern people beyond America’s shores. The fact that many gun sales can be conducted there without background checks has profound international consequences. This was most directly felt in Ireland at the height of the Troubles when many of the IRA’s guns came from the United States. US-made AR-18s and AR-10s were common – some even smuggled over in coffins.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/why-the-us-love-affair-with-guns-concerns-us-all-and-25-curious-facts-1.2526747
15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why the US love affair with guns concerns us all – and 25 curious facts (Original Post) SecularMotion Feb 2016 OP
Bring our firearms home where they belong, there are loving homes waiting to adopt. ileus Feb 2016 #1
I see you disrespect Skinner again Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #2
It was locked after only 3 responses, GGJohn Feb 2016 #4
He's racking up a pretty high count of locked posts in GD DonP Feb 2016 #5
never heard of anyone Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #7
There is no facility for a main forum host... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #9
"...but I infer that the member would likely just be PPRed." DonP Feb 2016 #10
You never know what casual remark might be thought provoking discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #11
Sorry DonP Feb 2016 #12
Hopefully that apology was... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #13
Yup! DonP Feb 2016 #14
I saw that Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #8
The troubles were a long time ago, gejohnston Feb 2016 #3
From the link discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #6
There may indeed be a concern abroad... Eleanors38 Feb 2016 #15

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
4. It was locked after only 3 responses,
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 12:10 PM
Feb 2016

one of them by a certain logical person asking why you whine so much, he's done that to me also, seems he has nothing better to do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027593122

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
5. He's racking up a pretty high count of locked posts in GD
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:41 PM
Feb 2016

I wonder if you can actually get blocked from GD and still be on DU?

Stranger things have been happening lately.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
9. There is no facility for a main forum host...
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 05:09 PM
Feb 2016

...to block a member from any of the main forums. Since the main forums act as umbrellas for universal discussion (respecting any SOP restrictions) rather than as safe havens like some groups, there's no real reason to setup a means to block someone from a main forum.

I imagine an admin may be able to do this but I infer that the member would likely just be PPRed.

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
10. "...but I infer that the member would likely just be PPRed."
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 07:14 PM
Feb 2016

Now you're just trying to cheer us all up.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
11. You never know what casual remark might be thought provoking
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:00 AM
Feb 2016

I considered the thought of 'saying something to cheer you all up". This led me to wonder why you would need to be cheered up, here, in the place where the RKBA and gun-control is discussed. Why would pro-gun folks need to be cheered up? For 20 years at least violence and murder rates have been dropping, the useless AWB was recognized for what it was, useless, every state has some form CC, the DC handgun ban is gone, several states have even joined Vermont in permitless CC...

Okay, you win, I've wasted half a cup of coffee trying to figure out why you would need cheering up. You stumped the band.

Maybe the cat barfed in your sock drawer...

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
3. The troubles were a long time ago,
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:49 AM
Feb 2016

and those select fire AR18s were not purchased legally. BTW, most of their illegal guns seem to be Eastern European in origin.
Did this inspire the author's screed?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/dublin-boxing-weigh-shooting-victim-7326217

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
6. From the link
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:04 PM
Feb 2016
It is estimated that a quarter of a million illicit guns flow south of the US border into Mexico every year.
How is it a US problem that Mexico and countries further South won't enforce their own laws? I also estimate that those estimates are over-estimated.



It’s an influence best summed up by the fact the current chairman of the NRA’s international affairs subcommittee is John Bolton. Bolton was the onetime US ambassador to the UN and the diplomat who effectively hobbled the Programme of Action on Small Arms and Light Weapons – the UN’s largest attempt at stemming the illicit gun trade to date. Bolton watered down the most compelling aspects of the treaty. Today, partly because the world’s largest small arms producer refused to support its bolder initiatives, the Programme of Action is considered by many as having largely failed.
And yet there's that quote from the movie Lord of War "While private gunrunners continue to thrive, the world's biggest arms suppliers are the U.S., U.K., Russia, France, and China. They are also the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council." I guess not quite precise since the UK has slipped to #6 behind Germany but isn't it a bit disingenuous when the security council is made up of giant arms suppliers?



Curious facts about some curious facts:
1: There are almost a billion guns in the world. About a third of those guns are controlled by governments across the globe.
3: Home to just 14% of the world’s population, Latin America accounts for 42 per cent of all firearm-homicides worldwide. This is obviously the fault of their laws (which heavily control or ban firearms) and has nothing to do with drug trade and gang activity.
4: Alaska has a firearm suicide rate 700 per cent higher than New Jersey. Is there any data comparing the non-firearm rates of suicide? That suicide rate wouldn't involve living somewhere with very high costs, much longer periods of darkness and higher rates of season affective disorder and the influence of friends and neighbors moods during those dark months.
14: German snipers in the second World War got wristwatches after 50 kills; a hunting rifle after 100; 150 kills won a hunting trip with Heinrich Himmler. The reward to NVA snipers for GySgt C N Hathcock was $30,000 in the mid 1960s.
20: Only nine states in the US prevent people jailed for stalking from, once released, purchasing a gun. Maybe that's the case for stalking specifically but offenses which get you over 1 year of jail time will add you to the NICS prohibited list.
22: At almost 130,000, there are about 10 times the number of federally licensed firearms dealers in the US than McDonald’s. Obama's recent EAs seem to be aimed at increasing that number.
23: At the end of the Cold War as much as 2.5 million tons of ammunition and as many as 7 million small arms and light weapons were left behind in at least 184 depots in Ukraine. Seems like a situation that could benefit an opportunist.
24: In 2006 the UN reported that a quarter of the $4 billion annual global gun trade was illegal. They may want to speak to some of those countries in their security council about that.
25: At one point over 300,000 Afghan warriors in the 1980s carried weapons provided by the CIA. Are you picking on that fine Democrat, Charlie Wilson?
 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
15. There may indeed be a concern abroad...
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 03:50 PM
Feb 2016

...that the citizenry of some countries, esp. those facing gangs and insurgencies with enough power to challenge government authority, may look to liberalization of gun prohibitions as a viable way to defend themselves.
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Why the US love affair wi...