Guns and Racism

[SecularMotion]

Those of us in favor of stronger laws to abate gun violence mostly support our cause by arguing against the claims of the gun lobby (roughly, the N.R.A. and gun manufacturers). It should by now be obvious that this is a waste of time. The case for action is overwhelming, but there’s no chance of convincing the entrenched minority who are so personally (or financially) invested in gun ownership. Legislative efforts have failed because the opposition is more deeply committed — more energized, more organized, more persistent.

My purpose here is not to continue arguing with the gun lobby or even to discuss the precise form that new gun legislation should take. Instead, I’m interested in understanding the intensity gap and how we might overcome it. Only when there’s a sustained passion against gun violence will there be a meaningful chance of effective action.

It might seem that fear of gun violence is the great motivator. Pro-gun advocates see guns as our best defense against armed criminals. Anti-gun advocates see the wide availability of guns as a greater threat than criminal violence. The issue seems to come down to what you fear more: criminals or guns.

But the passion of the gun lobby goes much deeper than fear of criminals. As Firmin DeBrabander’s excellent book, “Do Guns Make Us Free?” demonstrates, the basic motivation of the pro-gun movement is freedom from government interference. They talk about guns for self-defense, but their core concern is their constitutional right to bear arms, which they see as the foundation of American freedom. The right to own a gun is, as the N.R.A. website puts it, “the right that protects all other rights.” Their galvanizing passion is a hatred of tyranny. Like many other powerful political movements, the gun lobby is driven by hatred of a fundamental evil that it sees as a threat to our way of life — an existential threat — quite apart from any specific local or occasional dangers.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/guns-and-racism/

[guillaumeb]

1. White (of course) citizens were required to carry guns in some

Southern states. The reason was that all white males were considered to be part of the state militia that had as its primary purpose the defense of the free white population against a slave uprising. This fear has persisted to this day.

When George H. W. Bush ran for President, the "Willie Horton" ad was designed to play on white fears of a black criminal class.

Fear, sometimes but not always racially based, seems to be the prime motivation among gun owners for the supposed necessity of carrying a firearm.

[Eleanors38]

22. Gun control laws in the South were products of racism...

to keep blacks from self-arming. The irony of all this became clear when Jim (large, raucous black bird) Laws were finally uprooted in the South, and the RKBA became unfettered for All people, but the droppings of the old Southern gun laws started showing up in the... North. Every gun-control/ban law in Northern (and some other) cities was patterned on that loud, squawking bird.

One variation: NYC's Sullivan Laws were passed on a wave of anti-Italian sentiment.

[guillaumeb]

24. Agreed on the point of Southern gun control laws. eom

[ileus]

2. Thanks anyway....I'll remain progressive on all rights.

[LonePirate]

3. It's amusing how much gun lovers hate tyranny but they cheer Constitution trampling legislation

Shredding the right to vote or any civil right or anything else in the Constitution would seem like tyranny to me but the gun lovers are silent on these issues. As long as they can keep owning and buying more guns than some countries possess, nothing else matters to them. Their fear of tyranny is as laughable as their general insecurities that draw them to guns.

[Straw Man]

5. Straw Man calls foul.

Shredding the right to vote or any civil right or anything else in the Constitution would seem like tyranny to me but the gun lovers are silent on these issues.

Maybe I'm not the "gun lover" you're referring to, but I'm opposed to the shredding of any rights, include the right to vote, the right of women to make decisions about their bodies, the right of consenting adults to marry regardless of gender, and the right to live free of unwarranted government intrusion, including extrajudicial "no fly" lists and other such gateways to a police state.

Oh yes, and the right to keep and bear arms. Did I mention that?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

6. LinkS please n/t

[sarisataka]

12. I for one

Have always spoken against the voting restrictions and I have not been the only gun person to do so.

Also I have always been against the travesties Bush and Co imposed. I recall that as soon as it was mentioned using his unconstitutional secret lists to restrict gun purchases that were suddenly very popular among gun control proponents.

It seems that the commitment to liberal values ends once guns are involved.

[friendly_iconoclast]

13. Not only is your claim utter bullshit, it's hypocritical. I'm a host of DU's Civil Liberties Group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1168

...and these are the titles of the OP's that I've posted there, in reverse order, over the
past year or so
(BTW, these do *not* include posts I've made regarding civil liberties in other groups and fora)

Florida Supreme Court Rejects Cell Phone Tracking by Police

The TSA Wants To Read Your Facebook Posts And Check Out Your Purchases Before It Will Approve You...

I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure.

x-post from LBN: "Millions of cars tracked across US in 'massive' real-time DEA spy program"

FBI really doesn’t want anyone to know about “stingray” use by local cops

NY Civil Liberties Union: Erie County Sheriff Records Reveal Invasive Use of “Stingray” Technology

Police can’t delay traffic stops to investigate crimes absent suspicion, Supreme Court rules

Justice Department contradicts Attorney General Loretta Lynch's claims about Patriot Act

Laura Poitras Sues US Government To Find Out Why She Was Detained Every Time She Flew

First Library to Support Anonymous Internet Browsing Effort Stops After DHS Email

Library’s Tor relay—which had been pulled after Feds noticed—now restored

SCREW YOU, FEDS! Dozen or more US libraries line up to run Tor exit nodes

DEA bought millions in cell phone trackers and training, payment data shows

Your browser history, IP addresses, online purchases etc all up for grabs without a warrant

Prosecutor And Cop Lose It Over Idea Of Over Idea Of Needing A Conviction To Take Property

YOU, on the other hand, appear not to have posted *anything whatsoever*
(OP or reply) there in the entire history of DU3.

Mote, meet beam...

[LonePirate]

14. DU gun lovers are nowhere near the norm. The stereotypical gun lover is a Repub.

Who's passing all of these bills to gut voting rights and pretty much every other civil right? Republicans. The vast numbers of Repub gun lovers are doing NOTHING to stop this Constitutional assault simply because they are not going after their guns - which is the only tyranny they give a damn about.

Apart from a love of guns and a persecution complex, left wing gun lovers have almost nothing in common with right wing gun lovers. Left wing gun lovers are impotent when it comes to stopping the Repub assault on rights and liberties. Right wing gun lovers - the vast majority of gun lovers - couldn't care less about those issues.

[friendly_iconoclast]

15. "(S)tereotypical"? Your post is larded with stereotypes: "persecution complex", "impotent"

And as noted previously, you yourself have had fuck-all to say about civil rights in the
very DU group devoted to discussion of same.

Furthermore, why do you expect "left wing gun lovers" to carry the weight for the entire
Left? We're a minority (a sizeable one, granted- but still a minority) of Dems.

I wouldn't be too quick to point the finger at others if I were you.

[LonePirate]

16. I agree all Dems need to be doing more in that regard.

However, the OP quoted an article that claimed gun lovers hated tyranny. That's simply not true. Left wing gun lovers may hate tyranny in all of its broadest senses; but they are a minority of gun lovers. The vast majority of gun lovers are right wingers and the only tyranny they give a damn about is the government taking their guns. The conclusion (or simply the statement by the OP's quoted source) is patently false.

[beardown]

27. I think that the profile of gun owners is changing as we type.

Records sales. Many to first time owners. Fear of terrorism coming to your front door, etc.

I'd agree that it's still a strong majority of repubs, but not nearly as vast as it might have been a decade ago.

We read similar pieces here occasionally that say only white guys want guns, but they are routinely countered by the citing the number of Af-Amer groups supporting gun rights and increased sales as well as the racist reasons prompting many of the older gun laws.

As far as abandoning other Constitutional protections, there are many of us here that say more good can come from and more lives saved if the Democratic party is no longer seen as the party of gun confiscation and many single-ish issue swing voters will vote Dem and thus help advance economic and social justice, a viable safety net, livable wages, a national mental health support structure, etc.

We are routinely insulted as NRA hacks and now you call us impotent because we can't convince control dems to keep their eye on the larger goal. Gun confiscation is a Reagan like simple sounding solution that allows the person presenting that argument to ignore and discount the much larger issues in America that are worsening as we type while gun deaths have been on a long decline, despite more guns, more gun owners, and more CCW than ever before.

Not saying that you were calling for confiscation, but often times, DU gun controllers spell control as 'confiscate'.

[Eleanors38]

23. And how some, including the Prez, want to juke around the Fifth Amendment.

You are familiar with that?

[Straw Man]

4. The comments are very instructive.

One commenter provides this:

Chicago Tribune 8 Nov ’13 ~ SPRINGFIELD — — A contingent of black lawmakers blocked a vote on [Chicago] Mayor Rahm Emanuel's watered-down proposal to impose tougher penalties for illegal gun possession, the latest example of a rift between the mayor and the African-American community. … The mayor's bill originally would have required three-year mandatory sentences for first-time gun offenders. … For example, under the measure unlawful possession of a weapon by a felon who repeats the offense would carry a minimum sentence of four years in prison. That's one year longer than current law. In addition, inmates would have been required to serve 85 percent of their sentences. Current inmates are eligible for day-for-day "good time" that allows them to cut their time behind bars in half.

--http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-11-08/news/ct-met-illinois-legislature-emanuel-guns-1108-20131108_1_gun-bill-gun-legislation-lawmakers

Is the race card really the best one to play here?

[DonP]

7. "Is the race card really the best one to play here?"

Well, they tried the "It's a public health crisis" card several times and that failed dismally.

They only have a few arguments to use and they all keep failing again and again in spite of outspending the NRA with Bloomberg's money.

In the meantime ... violent crime continues to fall "inexplicably" in spite of their dire warnings and that really kind of harshes their mellow for some odd reason.

[safeinOhio]

8. Gun rights are for white people

[TeddyR]

9. That's a silly racist comment

Gun rights are for all law-abiding citizens. Racist cops are a problem, but they don't mean that the Second Amendment only applies to whites.

[safeinOhio]

10. I think we call it institutional racism.

It exist for PoC. This video just shows how it works. Not silly at all for those on the other end of justice.

[hack89]

11. So let's work to ensure POC can freely exercise their 2A rights.

I'm with you on this

[Puha Ekapi]

17. Bullshit

Here on my reservation, and every other traditional native community, most homes contain firearms. We are also overwhelmingly liberal Democrats. One of the first things that the Gov. did to my people when they shoved us into internment camps (reservations) was disarm us. Those that refused to comply were usually killed. We learned THAT lesson REAL well, never again. We'll remain (well) armed.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

18. +100 ^^^

Thanks

[safeinOhio]

19. I currently live in the middle of

Saginaw Chippewa Tribal Nation and hunt and fish with members. No one walks around with AKs over their shoulders. There is the Tribal police force that are nice to everyone. I'd much rather get pulled over by them. Most are Democrats and have guns, just like I do, living in the North Country. But we are not gun nuts that live and die guns. I hunt and fish. I just don't care for those that think about shooting other human beings and have long guns that are only good for that. All of my rifles are bolt action. That is all that is needed for hunting and target shooting. I don't live in fear.

[Puha Ekapi]

20. Bet there are more AR's and AK's on the rez than there are bolt rifles...

...not that people "walk around with them over their shoulder." (what orifice did that come from, BTW?). We don't live in fear, but we do try to live prepared. WRT the tribal cops, I live on the most geographically isolated reservation in the lower 48. Response times average about 40 minutes here, and sometimes it can be much longer.

[Eleanors38]

25. The Newton Gun Club would beg to differ.

[safeinOhio]

26. The video doesn't lie.

It was filmed by an open carry group.

[Eleanors38]

28. Neither does the video/pics of the Newton Gun Club.

There was a group in Birmingham this year which walked up the street, openly carrying and offering instruction in safe gun handling. No one interfered.




They were black.

[Eleanors38]

21. "Intensity gap" and "overcoming" it: Maybe most people don't agree with the banners?