Elementary school locked down after open-carry dad keeps on showing up with gun

[eridani]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/12/08/1458150/-Elementary-school-locked-down-after-open-carry-dad-keeps-on-showing-up-with-gun

A mystery Parent of the Year and open-carry enthusiast’s Christmas gift to the children and staff at Lillian Fletcher Elementary School in Homer Michigan, is a school wide lockdown. A parent at the school showed up on Friday with a holstered gun. Then, having already been told that maybe he didn’t need to bring his gun with him to an elementary school, brought it again on Monday!

After the Friday incident, district officials spoke with the Calhoun County Sheriff Department, whose deputies interviewed the parent, "trying to convince him that it's not a good thing -- even though it might be one of his rights, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do," Wright said.

[RandySF]

1. Some people exercise their rights in such a way

that it does nothing more than take a dump on everyone else.

[Warpy]

2. Doesn't that asshole realize he's scaring the hell out of the kids?

Doesn't that asshole know how many school shootings there are?

Or doesn't that asshole ever think about anything but his beloved GUN?

My guess is that it's the latter.

THIS is why we need stricter gun laws.

[whitefordmd]

3. I guess one could make the argument

that the school is scaring the kids by going to a lockdown for no reason.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

4. The gun owner's motives are unknown

That's reason enough for a lockdown.

Maybe he just wants to "exercise his Second Amendment rights," or perhaps it's something more sinister -- he doesn't like what a certain teacher is teaching his child, he holds the principal responsible for "taking God out of the classroom," or maybe he feels threatened by the security guard's presence and chooses to exercise "stand your ground."

The point is that guns serve one purpose -- to kill. Even if the claim is made that the presence of a gun serves as a deterrent to others' actions, the threat is the same -- "Do what I want you to or I will kill you."

The difference between a defensive weapon and an offensive weapon is the thought you have in your mind when you pull the trigger.

A school is a place of learning. What the students are learning when the school goes on lockdown because of the armed individual's presence is "we will protect you from this possibly dangerous person." To do otherwise would open the school up to criticism that it's not doing enough to protect its students.

[beevul]

19. There to pick up his kid?

This isn't rocket science.

[Kittycat]

32. They already have him a warning.

When you show up with it again, well - I would take that as as a threat. The gun doesn't need to be on school property. He may have a right to carry, but they have a right to ban him from carrying it on there, when safety outweighs self interest.

[beevul]

63. So what?

They already have him a warning.

So what?

The gun doesn't need to be on school property.

We don't have a department of needs. When we do, you might take it up with them. Until then...

He may have a right to carry, but they have a right to ban him from carrying it on there, when safety outweighs self interest.

Wrong.

As agents of the state, they don't have any rights in this context, they have powers.

Powers are those things governments have, which are opposite to and at odds with rights.

As agents of the state, their power should be restricted by amendment 2, just like every other government agency.

And, just like amendment 1, the point was never to protect conduct which is popular.

Popular conduct doesn't need protection, right?

[djean111]

5. The school has no reason to just accept that the guy with a gun won't start shooting.

They would not know until he starts shooting.
There was every reason for a lockdown.
In fact, not locking down tells the kids that anyone with a gun in a school is okay - which is dangerous.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

70. Is that your honest opinion of 100+ million gun owners? Seriously?

[djean111]

71. You mean 100+ million gun owners would find it necessary to open carry in a school?

Seriously?
And - you think it is fine to wait and see if someone is going to start shooting? You would bet your kid's life on it? And all the other kids' lives? Seriously?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

73. If someone we're to start shooting a "Gun Free Zone" sign won't hold them back.

The only way violent people stop acting violently is when they are confronted with return violence. It's a sad statement to make but it's also the truth and has been so since humanity began indulging in violence. It's why School Resource Officers also carry guns...at schools...where children go.

I live in a very open-carry part of the country. You would have to travel at least 50 miles to find a home that doesn't own at least one firearm and odds are at least 1/5 of the people you'll meet are carrying. I know people in the "big city" who wish they had our non-existent crime and neighborly sense of community.

A person has to practice being scared of the people I know and I can't hold those sorts in high esteem.

[Warpy]

6. A guy carrying a gun out in the open is sufficient reason.

He's got a screw loose unless he's out on a hunting trip during hunting season. He doesn't belong at a school, ever.

Open carry lunatics are overdue for a beatdown by the court. It's called "menacing" and everybody damned well knows it, especially the open carry lunatics.

[shadowrider]

24. I completely trust an open carrier

opposed to someone hiding a gun in his shorts without a holster.

[tazkcmo]

31. You aren't a six year old.

That's my assumption anyway. This isn't about you, the staff, the 2nd amendment but about what affect seeing a gun carrying individual other than a soldier or police officer has on these young children.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

41. I'll wager a bunch of adults running around in panicked hysterics is more upsetting than a gun.

[tazkcmo]

43. You might be right

But you might be wrong. And if you're right, those would be the people charged with the children's protection or the children's parents. If you're wrong then the adults have a duty to do what they've done.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. Where I live OC is fairly common. There isn't a child within 50 miles of my home that

doesn't live in a home without a gun. They play and run around just like kids all over the world; trauma-free.

If there is any uneasiness it is adults inculcating them to be fearful. Maybe those are the ones who should receive the warning.

[tazkcmo]

49. OK.

What does that have to do with this? It's their call to make and the man with the gun could cooperate. I guess that's asking too much.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

62. People shouldn't be allowed to abrogate the law based on practiced phobias.

It's why we also demand lunch counters serve everyone.

[tazkcmo]

64. I'm done.

You just lost me by equating an entitled man who refuses to cooperate with school officials and not open carry on the school grounds just because he can and the fight for racial equality and the lunch counter movement within. Good by.

[beevul]

65. Well done, even.

You just lost me by equating an entitled man who refuses to cooperate with school officials and not open carry on the school grounds just because he can and the fight for racial equality and the lunch counter movement within. Good by.

No, that poster most certainly did not. That poster compared two different instances where entities abrogate the law based on practiced phobias/hate.

The principle is the same in both cases, which is why you chose to play the "distinction without a difference" game and run away.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

68. beevul gets it.

[beevul]

75. In fairness...

One would have to consciously deliberately try, in order not to get it, and that poster did...right before putting his/her running shoes on.

[Shadowflash]

53. Yup.

If you are SO paranoid that you can't go to the grocery store, Arby's or go to pick up your kid from school without your peashooter because you are afraid for your life, you have ALREADY proven yourself to be too mentally unstable to be carrying a gun.

[GGJohn]

56. LOL.

Thank you Dr. Freud.

[beevul]

66. "... because you are afraid for your life..."

"... because you are afraid for your life..."

Prove that there is any fear involved.

[stone space]

8. In my experience, those would be the same folks who argue that...

...it is perfectly safe to dine in the company of ammosexuals like these.

I guess one could make the argument

that the school is scaring the kids by going to a lockdown for no reason.

[GGJohn]

9. I ask again,

what is so threatening about that picture?

[stone space]

10. You should ask that question of the two people who one of them murdered.

I ask again,

what is so threatening about that picture?

Maybe you feel safe around murderous ammosexuals who lick their guns in public, but I don't.

The very fact that you still support them and argue on their behalf even after the double murder is enough to make me question your judgment.

[GGJohn]

11. Maybe you should answer my question.

How about a picture of them licking their firearms in public?

[stone space]

12. You don't care that they murdered two people.

You still insist that they are safe to be around.

[GGJohn]

13. ...

You don't care that they murdered two people.

They murdered 2 people?

Besides Veronica Dunnachie, who in that picture murdered 2 people?

Unlike you, I don't get the vapors every time I see someone open carrying, it's pretty common to see around my neck of the woods.

[stone space]

14. "Besides Veronica Dunnachie, who in that picture murdered 2 people?"

I feel safer already.

[GGJohn]

15. Why would you feel unsafe around the other 3?

Have they threatened you in any way? Have they threatened any of the patrons in any way?

[stone space]

28. Don't worry about the double murderer's armed backup.

Why would you feel unsafe around the other 3?

Have they threatened you in any way? Have they threatened any of the patrons in any way?

I'm sure that her armed backup from OPEN CARRY TEXAS / OPEN CARRY TARRANT COUNTY in that restaurant is every bit as safe to be around as folks initially claimed that the double murderer was.

You guys were wrong about the double murderer, but now we're supposed to bet our lives on you being right about her heavily armed accomplices?

Seriously?

Do you think we are fools?

[GGJohn]

34. Armed backup?

Where do you come up with this crazy shit?

You guys were wrong about the double murderer, but now we're supposed to bet our lives on you being right about her heavily armed accomplices?

Who was wrong about her?
I don't remember anyone here even commenting on her, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Again, what did those other 3 do to you? To the patrons of that establishment?

[stone space]

37. Yes, armed backup. Here's a photo of the double murderer and her armed backup in a restaurant.

[GGJohn]

39. Was she a double murder suspect then?

And what is threatening about this picture?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

42. Do you feel safer with the cops?

Because the cops kill more people accidentally, maliciously while on duty and maliciously while off duty than OC activists.

[DonP]

17. For what it's worth in the "discussion" ...

41 states allow open carry, most with no permits required, and almost all have for decades.

Including Iowa and all the surrounding states except Illinois. (Noted because many of my family members live in Iowa (and don't seem to have a hissy fit about it.)

[GGJohn]

18. This ought to give our interloper a fit.

Including Iowa and all the surrounding states except Illinois

.

[DonP]

21. In a previous thread we also learned that Iowa allows campus carry too

It's entirely up to the discretion of the individual university administration ... for now.

Who knows if some resident Iowa "gun nutz" in Des Moines will "ram through" campus carry bills at any time?

Then the choice is left to the individual and it's doubtful if a few Keyboard Kommandos would be able to stop them.

[Duckhunter935]

22. did it happen in that restaurant

when that picture was taken?

[stone space]

26. "It's a magazine, not a clip, dammit!"

did it happen in that restaurant

when that picture was taken?

[Duckhunter935]

35. for some reason I knew you

Could not answer. With the amount of murders during open carry protests being zero as far as I know, someone is walking around and very paranoid. It is a sad thing that because that paranoia you would commit theft and deny that server and restaurant owner their paycheck for services rendered.

[GGJohn]

40. Now you've went and done it.

[Duckhunter935]

46. well sometimes the truth needs to be presented

to someone, ugly or not. Just as politely as possible.

[GGJohn]

48. I expect a Nixonesque type of thread soon.

[Duckhunter935]

50. you did not see the "I am not a thief"

Thread he posted here? Of course it was locked for being an SOP violation. Very funny as he stated he would leave without paying after being served denying others there paycheck is theft.

[GGJohn]

52. Yeah, I saw it,

that's the reason I posted the picture.

[flamin lib]

54. The young woman is black in this photo went on to shoot her husband and adult

step-daughter. She then turned herself into a psyc ward.

So, yeah, they are all just good and trustworthy gun owners exercising their second amendment rights in a peaceful manner.

Until they don't.

(Open Carry Tarrant County)

[GGJohn]

57. So guilt by association?

Is that your standard for firearm owners?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

74. Maybe controllers are like Leland Yee: make guns illegal to boost their share of the black market

Since guilt by association is the rules they want to play by.

[beevul]

76. Maybe they're all murderers in waiting, with serious self control issues..

Maybe they're all murderers in waiting, with serious self control issues, like million mom march organizer Barbara Lipscomb.

Since we're playing by their rules...

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

72. Oh wow, I see you enjoy spelunking.

[tazkcmo]

27. I guess they could.

But they didn't. I wonder why an institution filled with very young children (Our Most Valuable Resource in spite of half of them living in poverty) and staffed with educated professionals charged with their education and protection didn't see it your way? Maybe the kids are adversely affected by it as opposed to being cheerful about seeing a gun up close and personal?

[Eleanors38]

7. IMO, if someone wants to carry a weapon at a school, then carry concealed.

[GGJohn]

16. Agreed. eom.

[Mugu]

20. Hear, Hear! n/t

[Duckhunter935]

23. agreed

[stone space]

25. Why should random people be carrying guns in a school at all?

IMO, if someone wants to carry a weapon at a school, then carry concealed.

[GGJohn]

36. Why shouldn't they if all they're doing is picking up their children and

it's concealed?

[GGJohn]

38. You are aware that open carry is legal in Iowa? eom.

[Jester Messiah]

33. Some people are more interested in making a point than in protecting themselves or others.

It's not about safety or responsibility with that kind of person. They're liable to do more harm than good.

[flamin lib]

55. In my opinion anyone too frightened to leave home without a gun is mentally

unqualified to own one.

There's a name for it and it is diagnose-able as well as treatable. It's called Agoraphobia.

[GGJohn]

58. Well, you know the old saying,

opinions are like............, everyone's got one.

[DonP]

59. The 12 million plus US CCW permit holders will give your "opinion" serious consideration

But since gun control can't get more than 12 people to a protest, let along get even 1 or 2 to post regularly in your beloved and well protected gun control safe haven, I'm guessing they won't give it a lot of weight.

[GGJohn]

60. Ah hell, he has to come to this group because the group he hosts

barely gets any traffic.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

69. Because crime never happens outside the home. Ever.

[kgnu_fan]

29. ....

[ShrimpPoboy]

30. This guy thinks he's exercising his rights in support of a larger cause

But he's hurting that cause and giving ammunition (no pun intended) to the people who want to take away his rights. Dumb and pointless.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

44. The law is on his side.

[ShrimpPoboy]

47. If more people act this obnoxiously, it won't be for long.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

61. There's nothing obnoxious about picking up your children from school.

Unless you or someone else wishes to claim the legislature neglected to consider the fact that open carriers might have children to be picked up from school the law is on his side. The practiced panic of political partisans makes poor policy.

[beevul]

67. The only people acting obnoxious, are the delicate flowers...

Last edited Tue Feb 16, 2016, 04:14 PM - Edit history (1)

The only people acting obnoxious, are the delicate flowers who can't tolerate the mere sight of a peaceably carried holstered firearm.

Aren't schools teaching tolerance these days? Their reaction seems more one of hate than tolerance.

[underpants]

51. D'oh!

Homer