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virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 03:00 PM Nov 2015

What if we treated car owners like gun owners...

Someone sent me this essay a while back, so I share it here!

I keep hearing people say they want to regulate guns the way we regulate cars. They don't really mean that, of course. What they mean is they want to make it acceptable to find more ways to intrude on the right to keep and bear arms.

I propose instead, we regulate cars the way we regulate guns. Let's start:

To buy or operate a standard car, one will have to be 18 years old. Under that age, adult supervision will be mandatory. This means the adult must be in the vehicle with the underage driver.

To buy a sports car, you will have to be 21. A "Sports car" will be defined as any combination of any two of the following: 2 doors instead of 4, spoked rims not requiring hubcaps, aerodynamic effects such as spoilers or air dams, a wheelbase under 100 inches, a manual transmission, a curb weight under 3000 lbs, fiberglass or other non-metal construction, or painted logos.

For every purchase, you will have to fill out a questionnaire confirming you're a US citizen, do not use drugs or abuse alcohol, have never had a conviction for alcohol related incidents or reckless driving. Lying on this form will be punishable by 10 years in prison and/or a $10,000 fine.

New cars will only be purchased from Federal Automobile Licensees who must provide fingerprints, proof of character, secure storage for all vehicles, and who must call the Federal Bureau of Motor Vehicles to verify your information before purchase. They may approve or decline or delay the sale. If they decline, you may appeal the decision in writing to a review board. If they delay, it becomes an approval automatically after 10 days. However, the dealer may decline to complete such a sale in case of later problems.

Additionally, the purchase of more than two cars in a given year will require signing an understanding that buying cars in order to resell them without a license is a crime. There is an 11% federal excise tax on all new vehicles, plus any state or local tax.

Federal Automobile Licensees must agree to submit to 24/7/365, unannounced, unscheduled searches of their entire homes, businesses and any relates properties and personal effects to be named later.

Then you will be eligible to take your drivers' license test to determine your eligibility to operate on the street. Rules will vary by state, with some states requiring proof of need to own a vehicle for business purposes, and up to 40 hours of professional education. Also, not all states will accept all licenses. You will need to keep track of this information. Additionally, speed limits will not be posted. It is your responsibility to research the driving laws in each area you wish to travel through. Some communities may not allow out of state vehicles, sports cars, or even any vehicles at all. Violation of these laws will result in confiscation and destruction of your vehicle by crushing.

To have a turbocharger, supercharger (External Engine Compression Devices) or a muffler will require an application to the Federal Bureau of Motor Vehicles. A $2000 tax stamp will be required for these High Performance Vehicles. Your request must also be signed by the local chief law enforcement officer, and you must provide fingerprints. If approved in 10-16 weeks, you will be responsible for keeping your High Performance Vehicle in secure storage, and request permission in writing to take it out of state. You will need to carry this documentation with you. There are 13 states that do not allow possession of High Performance Vehicles. Be sure you are aware of those laws before planning your trips. (But really, what do you need such a vehicle for anyway? Who really needs to drive that fast? You must willingly accept and adhere to the socially accepted idea that you are inherently evil for merely possessing such a fast, high powered automobile.)

Additionally, superchargers and turbochargers must be manufactured before June 1, 1986. They may be sold and refitted by a FAL who also has a Special Occupational Tax license authorizing him to work on these. New superchargers, however, are a violation of federal law, except for use by the police or military, or specific government contractors. Expect to pay $15-$30,000 each for these items. Mufflers will only cost from $250-$1000, plus the $2000 stamp. However, once the muffler is damaged, it must be disposed of by cutting it into three pieces. Failure to do this may result in your family going through the next decade only knowing you in a prison jumpsuit and all your bank accounts seized and never replenished.

Imported sports cars will be prohibited. You may purchase other items from foreign manufacturers, but your automobile is in a special class of prohibition due to its inherently evil and sinister nature. The frames may be imported, cut into three pieces, and reassembled with US made engines and suspensions, as long as 60% of the parts are American. Shortly, though, the Transmission Loophole will be closed. The purpose of allowing imports is for spare parts, not to build more destructive "race vehicles.” Transmissions will have to be US made.

Repairs may only be conducted by a licensed FAL, who will send a truck to retrieve your vehicle. It must be a flatbed type truck, winch/dolly trucks are not allowed, under 10/$10,000 penalty. You may work on your own vehicle, but any repair that exceeds emission or performance standards will be subject to federal criminal charges. And violation of this reasonable regulation could result in not only your imprisonment and the confiscation of your assets but imprisonment of any employee or family member who was insane enough to repair your “race car” for you.

Be aware that an existing HPV may have multiple HP Features. A new HPV will require a license for each feature you wish to add to it—one each for muffler or external engine compression device. And you must request and receive, in writing, permission from the federal, state and local governing authorities prior to making such modifications.

Converting a standard car to a sports car will require payment of a $2000 tax, even if no HP features are added. However, if an FAL/SOT does the conversion on a new frame before the vehicle leaves their premises, it will only be a $50 tax. You will need to carry this documentation in the glove box at all times, the mere failure of which alone can result in an arrest and possible conviction.

There is discussion of closing the Car Dealer Loophole, through which private individuals sell cars to friends without going through an FAL. It is important we have these background checks. Surveys show criminals prefer to buy unlicensed to get around their legal liabilities so they can commit crimes in stolen vehicles, which evidence has proven for many years to be true.

Some vehicle law convictions will result in loss of your driving privileges forever. This includes reckless operation, drunk driving, an incorrect bumper height or attachment, or the wrong type of exhaust. Collisions may also result in permanent loss of driving, if injury occurs and negligence is proven. In addition, any felony conviction of any kind--even tax evasion--will mean permanent loss of your driving privileges. In these cases, it will even be illegal to ride or sit in a friend's car.

There is also discussion of prohibiting brightly colored vehicles. Vehicles are transportation, not toys, and should not be marketed in a way that suggests they are intended for casual use. It is important that everyone be aware of the dangerous nature of cars.

In the future, we may have to consider large displacement engines (anything over 2.5 liters) and transmissions with more than three speeds as being High Performance Items to be added to the federal registry. There will be a window during which you can register your items for $2000 each, provided you meet the background check. Otherwise, you will have to immediately surrender them to an FAL/SOT to dispose of on your behalf. Operating an unlicensed HPV after this date will result in confiscation and destruction of the vehicle, and the 10/$10,000 punishment.

These laws and regulations are due to drunk drivers, reckless drivers and other criminals. The automobile community should be glad it is allowed to exist at all, given all the deaths and environmental damage caused by these vehicles.

The president said today that he strongly supports your right to own and drive basic, standard vehicles for farm use and carpooling. But he and many other people have made it clear that eventually – maybe this month – we need to cease all manufacturing of such high powered automobiles for the civilian market.

Eventually, we need to move away from the notion that owning and operating a vehicle is a right and entitlement, and limit it to people with a proven, bona fide professional need. There are plenty of trains and buses for normal people. This is how most civilized nations are moving and is not a violation of your right to travel.

25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What if we treated car owners like gun owners... (Original Post) virginia mountainman Nov 2015 OP
Interesting spin jehop61 Nov 2015 #1
Gun control advocates are always telling us we should regulate guns like we do cars...n/t Kang Colby Nov 2015 #7
There are more than 30 federally mandated safety features for the interior of a car. flamin lib Dec 2015 #23
I'm OK with that. I'd then be able to legally take that gun into *all* states, and would no longer.. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #24
Problems, here... Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #10
Your logic jehop61 Nov 2015 #12
"Your logic cannot be refuted by me." FTFY... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #13
Please re-read. And kindly quit attacking progressives in DU. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #16
All I know jehop61 Dec 2015 #17
You don't 'know' these things, you *believe* them- and that's fine friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #18
Fact jehop61 Dec 2015 #19
So those right wing liars at the FBI are all wrong I guess? DonP Dec 2015 #20
How *dare* you derail that poster's religious proselytizing with inconvenient facts! friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #21
Well, everybody knows the DoJ under Eric Holder was pro gun and right wing DonP Dec 2015 #22
spin??? discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2015 #14
fine. lets require liability insurance on each gun, like we do for cars! nt msongs Nov 2015 #2
What exactly will mandatory liability insurance accomplish that's different than now? branford Nov 2015 #3
Liability insurance IS OPTIONAL in some states.. virginia mountainman Nov 2015 #5
Biggest seller of firearm related insurance? The NRA thanks you for the business and revenue. DonP Nov 2015 #8
Liability insurance is only required if you drive the car on public roads. Angleae Nov 2015 #9
Jesus, doesn't the NRA get enough money? Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #11
My company owns 20 cars without any insurance Travis_0004 Dec 2015 #25
a federal firearms license is not to own a gun but to buy and sell them. hollysmom Nov 2015 #4
to sell firearms, you need all of what you listed in addition to an FFL gejohnston Nov 2015 #6
I don't think you need a fixed location. that is why they are checking the houses. hollysmom Nov 2015 #15

jehop61

(1,735 posts)
1. Interesting spin
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 03:35 PM
Nov 2015

however very few of us have to depend upon guns to function in society. Mass transit is unavailable for many. We need to get to our jobs. Guns are said to be for "sport" mostly and the 1 in 5000 chance for self defense. And my 3 year old is unlikely to get into my car and kill me with it. Regulation and registration are not onerous requirements. Nice try, but very illogical.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
23. There are more than 30 federally mandated safety features for the interior of a car.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 01:00 PM
Dec 2015

0, zip, nada for gunz.

So, yeah, lets slap 30 safety requirements on gun makers.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
24. I'm OK with that. I'd then be able to legally take that gun into *all* states, and would no longer..
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:47 PM
Dec 2015

...have to ask my local chief of police for permission to buy a gun.

You lot really haven't thought your clever plan all the way through, have you?

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
10. Problems, here...
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:44 PM
Nov 2015

Many people do not presently use cars, and that number is expected to grow, what with the initial expense, fuel, maintenance, licensing and registration and insurance and poor re-sale value. This trend is dove tailing with the move toward "tiny houses" and the slowly-evolving zoning laws allowing communities (even within cities) full service businesses and housing within walking, biking, and mass transit distances. Our economy is going two-and-a-half world, as you may have noticed.

Well less than a hundred kids (under 15 yoa) were killed in gun accidents for the last year reporting. Can you say that about auto accidents?

Most guns are NOT for "sport" purposes, but are posessed for self-defense. That is clearly a "need." Further, the Second Amendment does not present a "needs" test.

jehop61

(1,735 posts)
12. Your logic
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:19 PM
Nov 2015

escapes me. You can't make up stuff and say it's fact. That's what the Repubs do. Sorry.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
16. Please re-read. And kindly quit attacking progressives in DU.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 11:05 AM
Dec 2015


If you want to discuss further the instant issue, fine.

If you want to compare our ideological positions and actual experience in activism, fine.

But you should drop the attacks, and realize, hopefully, there is a significant number of left-leaning defenders of the Second Amendment, here and elsewhere.

jehop61

(1,735 posts)
17. All I know
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:25 PM
Dec 2015

is this gun fetish has gone too far and pro gun folks sound crazier and crazier. Guns kill too many innocents every year and we need to correct that fact. Sorry if you disagree, but that's my 1st Amendment right.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
18. You don't 'know' these things, you *believe* them- and that's fine
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:59 PM
Dec 2015

But there is most certainly a difference, and it's an important one. As you yourself said:

"You can't make up stuff and say it's fact."

jehop61

(1,735 posts)
19. Fact
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 05:27 PM
Dec 2015

Last 5 days.....3 killed, 9 wounded by guns at Planned Parnthood......man shot Waffle House Waitress for telling him to put out cigarette......man shots neighbor yesterday for parking in his spot. Any questions? I believe these facts. Sorry, magical thinking can't make this go away.

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
20. So those right wing liars at the FBI are all wrong I guess?
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 06:13 PM
Dec 2015
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014

Let's see, what to believe, you reading the newspaper headlines or the FBI who tracks this for the last half century.

Tough call
 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
21. How *dare* you derail that poster's religious proselytizing with inconvenient facts!
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 10:34 PM
Dec 2015

Big meanyhead....

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
22. Well, everybody knows the DoJ under Eric Holder was pro gun and right wing
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 11:02 PM
Dec 2015

I mean, how stupid would you have to be not to recognize that he was just a tool of the NRA?

I bet he even went back decades to cook the books to make it look like violent crime, including crime with firearms, was half what it was 40 years ago.

Everybody that relies on the Weekly World News and the like for their data recognizes that.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
14. spin???
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:22 PM
Nov 2015
"We need to get to our jobs."

Call a taxi???


"Guns are said to be for "sport" mostly and the 1 in 5000 chance for self defense."

Regardless of the personal reason for speaking, owning a gun, attending a religious service, not self-incriminating, etc. these are RIGHTS; reasons are not required.


"And my 3 year old is unlikely to get into my car and kill me with it."

Since driving on a public highway is a privilege, your 3 year old isn't allowed to do that. You are bound (by law) to take precautions against that. If you're not a moron and taking equivalent precautions with your guns, the chance that your 3 year old will kill you are non-existent.

"Regulation and registration are not onerous requirements."

Regulation is not and we have plenty of those.
Registration is.


Expand your thinking.
 

branford

(4,462 posts)
3. What exactly will mandatory liability insurance accomplish that's different than now?
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 03:55 PM
Nov 2015

First, in virtually all areas you don't actually need automobile insurance if you don't drive on public roads. Accordingly, I assume you wouldn't require firearm insurance for self-defense, hunting and sporting weapons in the home or used on private property?

Moreover, I'll simply re-post my prior comment about the near insurmountable legal and practical issues with requiring mandatory firearm liability insurance,



First, you cannot insure against your own intentional criminal acts. Insurance also wouldn't cover the effects of violence unconnected to the owner's firearms. Personal liability insurance is not a some general crime victim recovery fund funded by legal gun owners (which would have its own myriad of constitutional problems). For instance, even if the recent shooter of the reporters in Virginia has liability insurance, the victims' families would not collect a dime from the policy.

Second, since the incidence of firearm negligence among lawful gun owners is minuscule, despite the occasional graphic news story (recall that the USA has about 100+ million legal gun owners and over 300+ million firearms), the cost for such policies would be (and are) negligible. If the government attempted to artificially raise the costs of such insurance above what actuarial standards required, it would become a tax or penalty on gun ownership, and no longer "insurance" (again, with significant constitutional problems).

Third, most homeowners and renters policies already cover accidents involving firearms, and thus most gun owners already have insurance.

Fourth, if the intent and design of the policy is to discourage the exercise of a constitutional right by simply making it more burdensome or expensive, it would almost certainly be unconstitutional in the same manner the courts struck-down poll taxes and literacy tests for voting.

Fifth, the vast majority of crime involving guns does not involve legal firearm owners or guns, and therefore this policy would have little to no effect on crime rates as such firearms would still not be insured even if mandatory. "Mass shootings" are also an extremely small percentage of gun crime.

Sixth, firearm accident insurance and policy riders are already very cheap and readily available, and the NRA is one of its largest proponents. If specific firearm insurance became mandatory, it would be a huge financial windfall for the NRA not only as a provider and vendor (similar to how AARP is a vendor for health and life insurance), but also as an endorser as they are the largest firearms safety organization in the country.

Seventh, there is no data to suggest that the country actually has a problem with uncompensated losses resulting from accidents involving legal firearms. What problem does the mandatory insurance proposal actually address?

Eighth, the lack of liability insurance does not prevent accident victims from suing someone for their negligence or criminal acts.

Simply, mandatory insurance is a feel-good measure, little more than solution looking for a problem, and would not in any way cause some rift between insurance companies and any part of the gun rights lobby.

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
5. Liability insurance IS OPTIONAL in some states..
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 04:20 PM
Nov 2015
https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/#uninsured_fee.asp

If the vehicle is uninsured, the motor vehicle owner is required to pay to DMV a $500 uninsured motor vehicle fee in addition to normal registration fees. Payment of the $500 fee does not provide the motorist with any insurance coverage. If involved in an accident, the uninsured motorist remains personally liable. This fee is valid for twelve months but may be prorated for a shorter amount of time.


Also, if I don't drive on the PUBLIC road, I don't even need to pay the fee.....
 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
8. Biggest seller of firearm related insurance? The NRA thanks you for the business and revenue.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 10:47 PM
Nov 2015

Based on your insightful idea Wayne might be able to buy 3 new ties.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
25. My company owns 20 cars without any insurance
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 08:41 PM
Dec 2015

They don't drive on public roads, so they are not insured.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
4. a federal firearms license is not to own a gun but to buy and sell them.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 04:01 PM
Nov 2015

If you want to buy and sell multiple cars (not just the one you have now)
this is NY state rules - there is no federal license. - guess what you have to do.
You'll need to lay the groundwork for registering as a dealer by obtaining the following:

A Official Business Certificate of Registration from your county clerk
If you'll have employees, a federal employee ID number and proof of worker's compensation and disability insurance coverage
A sales tax number and a copy of the Certificate of Authority issued by the New York State Department of Taxation and Finance (assuming you will collect sales tax)
Proof of insurance that will cover vehicles owned or operated by the dealer and sporting dealer plates
A surety bond in an amount ranging from $10,000 to $50,000, depending on the type of dealership (see Original Facility Application Form VS-1 for a breakdown)
Franchise agreements with manufacturers of new vehicles you intend to sell (not required for selling used vehicles)
A Statement of Ownership or permission to use the place of business (Form VS-19)
A photocopy of the driver license or non-driver photo ID from the company's owner, president, or partner


You'll need to include all items in the above list when you send in your application, along with the appropriate application and business fees. You'll also need to have the following, which will be inspected as part of the review process for your application (these are explained further in the regulations):

Satisfactory premises in the state of New York with proper security for business records and display space for vehicles
A permanent sign
Bills of sale and other forms dealers use (you will need to buy these from the DMV; see Dealer Forms), and a book of registry for record keeping

http://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/buy-sell/car-dealers/dealer-licensing.php

And then of course there is all the liability insurance you need to buy. You don't need that with guns - no liability.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
6. to sell firearms, you need all of what you listed in addition to an FFL
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 05:54 PM
Nov 2015

Does New York require car dealers do background checks? Maintain an inventory control system anything like the one required by the Gun Control Act? Am I, as a resident of Wyoming, walk into a car dealership in New York and drive off in my new purchase? Or visa versa? Can't do that with guns, see Gun Control Act.
Can NY officials show up and do a warrantless inspection of a car dealer's business records like the ATF does under the Gun Control Act?
https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/record-required-licensees

Almost all murders are criminals killing each other. Two out of three gun deaths are suicides. What will insurance do other than make insurance companies rich?

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
15. I don't think you need a fixed location. that is why they are checking the houses.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:29 PM
Nov 2015

I looked it up the other day and that was not there.

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