A gun license surge in Massachusetts

[friendly_iconoclast]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/20/gun-laws-tightened-mass-number-permits-spiked/KDbdE52Cvdf4xNfIL4r0hN/story.html

By Catherine Cloutier Globe Staff April 20, 2015

The number of “license to carry” gun permits issued in Massachusetts spiked last year in anticipation of last summer’s passage of a sweeping gun control bill that tightened the state’s already strict firearms laws, according to a Globe analysis of state firearms data.

In the months prior to the law’s signing, many gun owners feared firearm licenses would soon be restricted or even eliminated, so “people wanted to make sure they got the license in case the state did something to limit them,” said Wayne Sampson, executive director of the Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association.

“There was a huge uptick while the Legislature was debating this issue,” he said...

...Overall, the number of active gun licenses of all types grew 5 percent, with a total of 355,272 in the state last year.

I wonder how that last sentence will be explained away by the excessively verbose posters that claim the rise in gun sales is due to previous gun owners adding to their collections...

Another take:

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Mass-Sees-Surge-in-Gun-Licenses-Last-Year-300655461.html

Mass. Sees Surge in Gun Licenses Last Year

...A Boston Globe analysis of state data found that the number of active Class A licenses - the license to carry category that includes the right to carry a concealed weapon - grew nearly 12 percent from 2013 and 2014. That was a significantly greater jump than in past years...

[DonP]

1. Don't be silly

It's just another anomaly, just like those 250,000+ new FOID cards in Illinois last year.

Everybody knows there are fewer gun owners now than ever before.

"Captain Verbose" will be here shortly to correct your wrong headed thinking.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. It seems gun control proposals are the single biggest reason for gun ownership.

Perhaps if controllers would stop proposing restrictions their ultimate aim of fewer guns would be a reality. It's sort of a variant of the Streisand: The more you say you don't want a thing to be the more it will happen.

[pablo_marmol]

11. "It seems gun control proposals are the single biggest reason for gun ownership."

Indeed. Gun restriction proponents are notorious for their binary thinking, as well as a complete inability to examine possible unintended consequences of the "common sense" proposals they put forth.

I think it's absolutely hysterical that their scare tactics have backfired. Long time gun owners that haven't bought into their attempts to mislead regarding the gun violence rate have hunkered down.....becoming more active and donating heavier to the NRA. Citizens that have are becoming the new gun owners that will resist gun restriction - given that people vote their interests. Basically a lose/lose proposition for The Controllers -- the chickens are coming home to roost. The fact that the internet allows for push-back against a thoroughly tainted media factors in as well.

[VScott]

3. Didn't see that coming, did they?

Among the provisions included in the law was tightening the requirements for applicants seeking the state’s Firearm Identification Card to match those of the Class A license — perhaps most notably, adding a provision that allows police chiefs to petition the courts to deny a Firearm Identification Card to an applicant not judged suitable. The Firearm Identification Card lets holders possess and transport a rifle or shotgun.

Myself and god knows how many other MA gun owners were on the front lines, day and night for months attending rallys,
meetings, public hearings, jamming up State House phone lines and email system, etc, and in the end, we defeated
legislative proposals that would have made NY's SAFE act seem like Alabama's gun control laws by comparison.

We gained a hell of a lot more than we stood to lose if we hadn't raised our voices.

The "suitability" and discretion by police chiefs is and always was totalitarian bull shit. C'mon, does anyone
here on DU... would anyone here on DU entrust the police with that much discretionary power and authority
if guns weren't involved?

There is a silver lining in every cloud though. By making both the LTC and FID discretionary, the state and the
Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association (MCOPA), the ones whom were the driving force behind the across the
board "suitability" BS have opened a can of worms WRT to a court challenge of the MA licensing system a a whole.

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. Hee hee, the controllers simply have to lose *one* case for MA to go shall-issue!

I'm sure, at some point in the near future an overly-politicized police chief will try to deny a license to
exactly the wrong lawyered-up person- and the it's buh-bye "may-issue"...

[pablo_marmol]

13. A can of worms with the same effect as the can 'o worms California opened up

when they shut down open (unloaded) carry -- leaving the only option to exercising the 2A concealed carry.

Of course Peruta isn't settled -- but who wants to bet that the pro-restrictionists will learn a damn thing from their foaming if it settles in favor of shall-issue?

I wouldn't be surprised if the open carry movement in California was intended to create a strategic backfire. After all, gun rights proponents have proven themselves to be a lot more dedicated - and of course smarter - than the restrictionists.

Good on you for your good work in MA, VScott!

[jimmy the one]

4. explaining away

icon's link: ...Overall, the number of active gun licenses of all types grew 5 percent, with a total of 355,272 in the state last year.

icon: I wonder how that last sentence will be explained away by the excessively verbose posters that claim the rise in gun sales is due to previous gun owners adding to their collections...

Allow me, to 'explain away'.
Easily enough - how do you conflate 'rise in gun sales' with a 5% increase in gun permits? where existing gun owners comprise probably the lion's share of those getting any CCW gun permits?
So the explanation rests upon your own statistically challenged non sequitur that gun sales are somewhat linearly related to ccw permitting. Handguns account for only a third of national gunstock, rifles & shotguns predominate.

Jeez, icon, this must be embarrassing, it was even spelled out for you in your own link: many gun owners feared firearm licenses would soon be restricted or even eliminated, so “people wanted to make sure they got the license in case the state did something to limit them,”

Do get that book, icon, Statistics for Dummies.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. Honest question -- Are CCW's per person or per gun?

So the explanation rests upon your own statistically challenged non sequitur that gun sales are somewhat linearly related to ccw permitting

Actually, the OP doesn't address gun sales but, rather, gun licenses.

If MA does not require additional CCWs for each individual weapon then the rise in CCWs means more individuals are obtaining permits and there is no link to number of guns owned per CCW-holder.

[DonP]

6. FWIW That's the way the FOID card works in Illinois

Not sure about the FID card in Mass.

You must have a FOID to buy your first gun, after that ... buy as many as the budget will handle.

But each new Illinois FOID card means a new, first time gun owner, allowing for a handful of late renewals.

[friendly_iconoclast]

9. So it is here in MA. There are 2 sorts, the article is about the "Class A" for handguns

(now with CCW goodness!).

"Class B" is for rifles and shotguns, which the "Class A" also covers

[GGJohn]

12. Jeez!!!!

Y'all have to have a license to for firearms?
That sucks, glad I live in AZ.

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. MA gun licenses are per-person, Class "B" for shotguns and rifles, "A" for handguns...

...which now include CCW permitting that was an additional hurdle before

[oneshooter]

21. In Texas CHL's are issued per person.

There is a minimum caliber required to take the shooting part of the test, 32acp. After you receive your license there is no minimum and no maximum caliber you can carry, as long as you can properly conceal it.
The CHL has no information on it as to what weapon you are using.

[friendly_iconoclast]

7. James, you'd look *far* less foolish if you familiarized yourself with our gun laws before posting

In Massachusetts, ALL gun owners require a license- not just for handguns.

Rifles and shotguns are covered by "Class B" licenses. Handguns always required a "Class A" license,
which also covers rifles and shotguns. CCW permits were an extra step over and above the "Class A"

"Class B" remains exactly the same- get fingerprinted and get a background check, and when your
license shows up in the mail, go buy the rifle(s) and/or shotgun(s) of your choice.

Existing gun owners already *had* licenses- but now, if they want to have a CCW, they have to get the
new-for-2014 version of the "Class A", which combines the old "Class A" with the CCW permit

THAT is what these additional thousands of people are getting, a small detail which seems to
escaped you...

[jimmy the one]

16. icon's great escape

icon: Existing gun owners already *had* licenses- but now, if they want to have a CCW, they have to get the new-for-2014 version of the "Class A", which combines the old "Class A" with the CCW permit

.. you help prove my point, tap dance, & avoid my challenge with 3 fairly irrelevant sentences (of 5); I suspect you wrote them mainly to save some face, or at least hide the egg;
You help prove my point, which is that a significant percentage of existing gun owners are getting the 2014 class A permit, rather than non gun owning 'new buyers' purchasing new firearms. This, & your concurrence, contradicts what you suggested in your OP:
icon in his OP.Overall, the number of active gun licenses of all types grew 5 percent, with a total of 355,272 in the state last year.
icon remarked: I wonder how that last sentence will be explained away by the excessively verbose posters that claim the rise in gun sales is due to previous gun owners adding to their collections...

Explain how the new class A licenses are creating a large percentage of new gun owners, as you implied in sentence above.

boston globe: Statewide, the number of active Class A licenses — the so-called license to carry category that broadly includes the right to carry a concealed weapon — grew nearly 12% between 2013 and 2014. That was a significantly greater jump than in past years... With about 318,000 licensees in 2014, the Class A license was the most popular in the state; only about 34,000 residents held Firearm Identification Cards. http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/20/gun-laws-tightened-mass-number-permits-spiked/KDbdE52Cvdf4xNfIL4r0hN/story.html

icon: THAT is what these additional thousands of people are getting, a small detail which seems to escaped you...

Except that it didn't 'escape' me, it was my point. What is escaping you is how to tie in the increase in new class A licenses to higher gun sales, as you suggested in the OP. Higher gun sales don't appear to have much to do with the increase in massachusetts 2014 class A license,
Please icon, stop blowing smoke while you tap dance, it's getting hard to see you trip up the night fantastic.

icon remarked: I wonder how that last sentence will be explained away by the excessively verbose posters that claim the rise in gun sales is due to previous gun owners adding to their collections...

Sales to existing gun owners, apparently still are a large reason for that.

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. "Overall, the number of active gun licenses of all types grew 5 percent"

An inconvenient truth that can't be refuted by mere weight of verbiage.

Explain how the new class A licenses are creating a large percentage of new gun owners, as you implied in sentence above.

I implied no such thing. The sentence speaks for itself, as any previous gun owners would
have already had licenses- gun licenses in MA are for the owner, not the individual firearm.
A 5 percent increase to ca. 355K would indeed be "..additional thousands of people..."

If you were unaware of this fact, why did you presume to lecture about something about
which you were ignorant? And if you were aware of the particulars of MA gun laws...
well, I'll leave it to the disinterested reader to draw their own conclusions regarding your
veracity.

A post I made a week ago in another thread I feel bears repeating:

"Two words, an Internet meme, and a logical fallacy:"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=165803

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prolix


prolix

pro·lix

prō-lĭks?, prō?lĭks?
adj.
1. Tediously prolonged; wordy: editing a prolix manuscript.
2. Tending to speak or write at excessive length. See Synonyms at wordy.
[Middle English, from Old French prolixe, from Latin prōlixus, poured forth, extended.]

pro·lix?i·ty
pro-lĭk?sĭ-tē
pro·lix?ly adv.


pro•lix (proʊˈlɪks, ˈproʊ lɪks)
adj.
1. extended to unnecessary or tedious length; long and wordy.
2. (of a person) given to speaking or writing at great or tedious length.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bafflegab&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/bafflegab

baf·fle·gab
ˈbafəlˌɡab/
noun North American informal
noun: bafflegab

incomprehensible or pretentious language, especially bureaucratic jargon.
"the smooth chairman who had elevated bafflegab to an art form"

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/stop-liking-what-i-dont-like

About

“Stop Liking What I Don’t Like!” is an expression typically used to mock people
who seem to assert that something is bad,
often in when said remarks are in discussions where this person’s sentiment is in the minority.

In other words, those Americans are wrong on both counts.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_by_assertion

Argument by assertion is the logical fallacy where someone tries to argue a point by merely asserting that it is true, regardless of contradiction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

Proof by assertion, sometimes informally referred to as proof by repeated assertion, is an informal fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction.[1] Sometimes, this may be repeated until challenges dry up, at which point it is asserted as fact due to its not being contradicted (argumentum ad nauseam).[2] In other cases, its repetition may be cited as evidence of its truth, in a variant of the appeal to authority or appeal to belief fallacies

Austin J. Freeley, David L. Steinberg, Argumentation and Debate; Critical Thinking for Reasoned Decision Making (Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Boston, 2009), p. 196

[jimmy the one]

18. hardly to puff about

boston globe: Overall, the number of active gun licenses of all types grew 5 percent, with a total of 355,272 in the state last year

icon: .. any previous gun owners would have already had licenses ... A 5 percent increase to ca. 355K would indeed be "..additional thousands of people..."

Therefore, if your allegations are correct, during 2014, approx. 17,000 'additional thousands of people' would (allegedly) have obtained new Massachusetts gun licenses, predominantly the class A 'license to carry' (as borne out by several links). Of course not all these 'new licensees' bought firearms with their new permits - as stated in several places: 'people wanted to make sure they got the license in case the state did something to limit them.'
In other words, it appears a dominant portion of those 'new licensees' merely wanted the class A license, but not for to purchase a new firearm. This portion would include 1) non gun owners, 2) people recently moved to MA, who own guns elsewhere, even if clandestinely, 3) MA residents whose guns are owned by spouses 4) 'shadow' gun owners who want to suddenly become legal.
I doubt you'd get half of the 17,000 new licensees who use their new permit to obtain a new firearm (thus go from 'non gun-owner' to 'gun-owner).

MA population - 2013: ~6,709,000; .... 2014: ~6,745,000; The increase in population from jan 2014 to dec 2014 approx. 36,000. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=massachusetts+population+2000+
An increase of (grudgingly) 10,000 'new gun owners' might raise massachusetts gun ownership rate a fraction of a fraction from ~13% (HH or personal I am unsure), amongst the lowest in the country. But hardly enough to justify your OP criticism that ..." excessively verbose posters that claim the rise in gun sales is due to previous gun owners adding to their collections...".

We would need to know gun sales in Massachusetts during 2013 & 2014, for a small comparison, though even this would not disprove the underlying aspect of your criticism. Why do you continue to sidestep addressing your alleged gun sales link with new MA gun owners?

Globe Staff March 06, 2014 The number of people in Massachusetts with Class A licenses rose by nearly 5%, from about 271,000 in 2012 to 284,000 last year {2013}. The latest number represents an increase of more than 20% since 2009. http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/regionals/west/2014/03/06/gun-licenses-rise-state-considers-changes-gun-laws/Zkg3ueagJxUGW0lWXGuLuJ/story.html

MA population 2013: 6,709,000 .... .2009: 6,518,000; incr from 2009 to 2013 = ~191,000 .
Thus, approx. 240,000 class A licenses in 2009, to 284,000 in 2013 (20% increase), means 40,000 to 50,000 new class A licenses issued while population grew by 191,000 people.
40,000/191,000 = 21%, 50000/191000 = 26%. (overcompensated to account for non class A licenses).
A 21% to 26% rise in gun licenses, much of these not translating to new gun sales, is not enough to disprove what you thought you disproved in your OP.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/Election2012Factors/a/Gun-Owners-As-Percentage-Of-Each-States-Population.htm

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. Do you have any evidence for the following paragraph of yours?

Aside from a repeated assertion of its veracity, that is...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_by_assertion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

In other words, it appears a dominant portion of those 'new licensees' merely wanted the class A license, but not for to purchase a new firearm. This portion would include 1) non gun owners, 2) people recently moved to MA, who own guns elsewhere, even if clandestinely, 3) MA residents whose guns are owned by spouses 4) 'shadow' gun owners who want to suddenly become legal.
I doubt you'd get half of the 17,000 new licensees who use their new permit to obtain a new firearm (thus go from 'non gun-owner' to 'gun-owner).

I know that it's an article of faith among your sort that the number of gun owners is decreasing,
but this is really reaching. To begin with, getting a firearm license in Mass is no trivial thing:

1) You must be fingerprinted at a local police department (or rarely, county sheriff's office)

2) You must submit to a background check, a la the NICS

3) You pay $100 for the 'privilege', without any guarantee of success

4) If you want a Class "A" LTC, you must have previously taken and passed a
certification test which will run you about $100 at a minimum:

https://www.google.com/search?q=price+for+class+a+firearm+training+ma+&ei=0xVBVdzgPMekNu66gdAF#q=price+for+class+a+firearms+training+ma


While you may devoutly hope these new licensees aren't actually buying guns, you
have not presented actual evidence that they aren't.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

15. I attribute the rise to...

...all those rude totters whose guns are wearing out from all the carrying they do.

[friendly_iconoclast]

14. Seems I should have used 'prolix' and 'bafflegab' instead of 'verbose'...

[friendly_iconoclast]

20. There are now 68,000 more Class A licensees in MA than there was in 2012:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117283918

Number of gun licenses in Massachusetts shoots up

http://www.wcvb.com/investigative/Number-of-gun-licenses-in-Massachusetts-shoots-up/17217164


...The most recent records from the Mass Firearms Records Bureau shows 254,653 state residents currently holding Class A gun licenses, which allow them to purchase, possess and transport large-capacity firearms, like a Glock 19 9-mm weapon. Gun owners also need to have a Class A license in order to carry concealed weapons...