Hi! Can I get some feedback about this 911 video in Houston about open carry?

[R B Garr]

First of all, hello! I've heard a lot about this group. I never thought I would be posting here, but I have a question about the above video and wanted to know what you make of this.

Here's the reason I found this video and why I'm asking for feedback: I want to make clear that this is not intended in any way to be a Texas or Houston bashing thread. I've thought about moving to Texas for many years and I've been Googling different topics/cities and this popped up, so I watched it. I have to admit that I'm a little speechless about this. The video is voiced over by the 911 calls, but at the end you can hear the convo between the cops and the open carry people.

I'm in California and don't know if this would be complete culture shock for me going to Texas. What do you all think of this? This would freak me out, I have to admit.

(I'm not a very good linker, but I'll try to make it so the video appears instead of just the URL...)

[Shamash]

1. I guess it depends on what your concern is

If you've been thinking about moving to Texas or a specific part of it, presumably you've looked into a number of facets of it. Taxes, climate, standard of living, employment and so on. If one specific thing will make or break that decision, then go with whatever works for you. If you are just finding out something that was not even on your radar before, you have to ask yourself how important it is in the context of "what if I had never seen that video and then moved there?"

Also, it would probably be a good idea to compare the place in Texas you are considering to where you are now. There's a fairly silly thread elsewhere on DU right now about Ohio allowing permit-less concealed carry, filled with DU'ers decrying that possibility and swearing to stay away from Ohio if that happens. The story also mentions the 5 other states that currently have such a policy, but none of the scared commenters seem to care that 4 out of 5 of those states have a lower firearm murder rate than Ohio. The same thing may or may not be the case for you. How does California/your city compare to Texas/Houston? That should be the relevant consideration if the gun issue is a deciding factor. For reference, on a good to bad 1 to 50 scale in terms of firearm murder rates, California is #38 and Texas is #36, so Texas is slightly safer in that regard (at least by 2010 FBI figures).

If people in Texas are doing something that bothers you, but there is no measureable negative effect from it, then it is something that merely bothers you rather than being an actual problem. A fundamentalist Christian might avoid the Castro district of San Francisco because they would see things that bother them, but it does not mean there is an actual problem there.

Another thing to think about is that there are several million concealed carry permits out there for the various states. Even in California you are passing people on the sidewalk or on the highway every day who have guns close at hand and you simply do not see it and do not know who they are. So is the part that bothers you the presence of guns (which you have right now, even if you didn't know it), or the open presence of guns?

[beemer27]

2. Listen to Shamash

If you feel uncomfortable after watching the video, perhaps this is not a place for you to move to. The people on the street were making a political point, and some other people felt threatened by their presence. The cop did an excellent job of defusing the situation. But before you make up your mind in the matter, consider that you will find people walking on the street making a statement or political point in every city in the US. Not many of these involve firearms. Only you can assess your feelings in this matter. I have known many Texans, and, in my experience, they were all at ease around firearms. It is part of their culture and none of them were dangerous or reckless with guns. As our nation grows, it is getting harder and harder to find a "native" of any state. Most of us have moved from our home state to another. As a result, there will be people who were raised around firearms, and there will be people who were brought up in an environment were any firearm was considered something to be feared. As these two groups encounter each other there will be some unease, and situations like this. We also have open carry in Oklahoma. You will occasionally see someone with a pistol on their belt shopping in the local stores. I have never seen any problem with the practice, and have never seen anyone who complained about it. If the firearm is open or concealed makes little difference. If the person carrying is responsible, there is nothing to worry about. If they aren't, the police will take care of them in short order. Good luck with your decision.

[R B Garr]

25. Thanks for the info. I didn't even realize what was going on in the video

until the very end, so I didn't even realize it was a political statement until the end. So that could have been me on one of those 911 calls because I was shocked to see a group like that walking with weapons and would have called about them, as well.

I guess I will have to think about this. It's been something I've mulled over from time to time, but that group or others like that would be concerning. Although someone else pointed out, open carry was legal in California, but I never realized it.

I would definitely be intimidated if I saw that group in person.

[Politicalboi]

30. It's not legal to open carry in Ca

http://www.shouselaw.com/open-carry.html

Gun nuts are pushing to appeal the law. I hope they don't.

[stone space]

33. I'd be careful doing that.

So that could have been me on one of those 911 calls because I was shocked to see a group like that walking with weapons and would have called about them, as well.

Open Carry Texas / Open Carry Tarrant County have a history of posting the names, address, and telephone numbers of 911 callers online and subjecting them to death threats and rape threats.

And remember, while they are a tiny, tiny little group, and haven't been around for very long, they've already murdered two people so far in that short time.

[gejohnston]

34. evidence?

how do get access to who the callers are? Unsubstantiated claims from Watts or on talk radio doesn't count. While I'm not a fan of these guys, they deserve the same benefit of doubt as any other.

[R B Garr]

35. Whoa!! See, this is the kind of stuff that I would resent, besides being

frightened about. It's one thing to be a gun lover, but it's another to be such a showboat about it like they are doing and waving it in people's faces.

I was wondering why some of the people's names and other personal data was not blocked on the 911 calls. On the tape at about the 15:41 mark, you can hear the Open Carry Texas man mention a "Women Against ...couldn't hear the rest" Group they seemed to be aiming their protest about. It's this type of mentality and behavior that would really be threatening to me.

Thanks for that info. Off to Google some more, I guess. Wow.

[Lurks Often]

42. I would encourage you to do your OWN research

and not rely on a poster, who does not live in TX and displays an obvious bias and hate for gun owners.

I would caution you about making ANY significant decisions based on advice found on internet discussion boards, regardless of who it is from.

[Shamash]

3. You know...

It might be instructive for you to post this in identical form over on the Gun Control Reform Activism group and see what they have to say about it.

[R B Garr]

22. Great idea. I don't know at all how these forums work and didn't think

to double post this. Thanks for the input and for your other post. It was helpful with the stats, etc.

[Jenoch]

4. I got bored watching this video so I stopped

watching it around the 14 minute mark. Did anything actually happen?

I am a gun owner and RKBA supporter. I think, for the most part, the open carry zealots are harmless jackasses. I live in Minnesota which is both strongly in support of Democrats and RKBA. Interestingly, a CCW permit is required to open carry in Minnesota, so I have never seen anyone open carry in my state. If I did see someone open carry, and I crossed paths with them, I would suggest that they go home because they are doing their 'cause' more harm than good. I am not frightened by this sort of activity, for the most part. There are certain areas where I might not be so comfortable, but I don't go into those areas of the Twin Cities too often.

[DonP]

6. FWIW, I agree with most of your points

NO OC here in Illinois yet.

I just wouldn't bother talking to them about it, because I just don't think it would change any minds.

But IMHO, the fear and angst over this is largely hype of the same flavor as we had every time a state was passing concealed carry. Dire predictions of violence in the streets, shootouts with confused cops, bystanders killed by stray bullets, etc. None of it happens.

After two years, with all kinds of angry posts on DU about OC, I'm still waiting for the first story of an actual shooting, accidental or otherwise, at one of these open carry protests. Good, bad or indifferent, it's street theater.

[Jenoch]

16. I wouldn't walk a ross the street to talk to them,

but I would if they were in my path.

[sarisataka]

18. I have seen two

corrale became shall issue. It is a quite rare sight around the cities and even in rural areas.

it is nice to have the option however. I was in Rogers last year and some people needed help catching a dog that it slipped its leash. I was able to take my coat off and help them corral the dog. In several states that would have been a felony since I was carrying at the time. To the people I helped it was a non issue.

[Jenoch]

19. As long as you have your CCW, you can open carry,

at least that is my understanding.

Frankly, my attitude now, without having been exposed to open carry, is that I would not be in fear if those openly carrying were the garen variety bozos I have seen on television and the web. If they showed some sort of aggression, which I have never heard of, well, that's a different situation.

[R B Garr]

28. "...because they are doing their 'cause' more harm than good."

Agreed! I don't think most people would appreciate this kind of shock factor. They did come across as bullies and it looked like they were bullying that cop, too. Then they're talking about suing the 911 callers for making false 911 calls.

I can see why you stopped the video, but I was glued to it because I thought it was going to be about a confrontation with the person following them videotaping them, until I realized he was with their group to document any interactions.

[Jenoch]

31. Typically, from videos I have seen,

these open carry idiots are not confrontational, mostly because I have seen ablnyone approach them. As far as the cop is concerned, they were probably telling him they were not breaking the law. The cop was probably asking them to go home anyway and telling them there were a lot of calls about them.

[stone space]

5. Open Carry Texas / Open Carry Tarrant County has a history of threatening, stalkish, murderous...

...behavior with their guns.

They burst onto public consciousness in November of 2013 when they attempted to use their guns to threaten and intimidate 4 mothers who were eating at a local restaurant.

40 Armed Gun Advocates Intimidate Mothers Against Gun Violence In A Restaurant Parking Lot



On Saturday, nearly 40 armed men, women, and children waited outside a Dallas, Texas area restaurant to protest a membership meeting for the state chapter of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, a gun safety advocacy group formed in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

According to a spokeswoman for Moms Demand Action (MDA), the moms were inside the Blue Mesa Grill when members of Open Carry Texas (OCT) — an open carry advocacy group — “pull[ed] up in the parking lot and start[ed] getting guns out of their trunks.” The group then waited in the parking lot for the four MDA members to come out. The spokeswoman said that the restaurant manager did not want to call 911, for fear of “inciting a riot” and waited for the gun advocates to leave. The group moved to a nearby Hooters after approximately two hours.

MDA later released a statement calling OCT “gun bullies” who “disagree[d] with our goal of changing America’s gun laws and policies to protect our children and families.” The statement added that the members and restaurant customers were “terrified by what appeared to be an armed ambush.” A member of OCT responded by tweeting, “I guess I’m a #gunbullies #Comeandtakeit.”

snip-------------------------

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/11/10/2921121

[Shamash]

8. You missed a spot

I'm hoping you can go back and edit that post to include the "murderous" things they did. And perhaps add a note about how the picture you used is one the group posed for and use it from its proper angle, since right now someone with less ethics than yourself might try to portray it as something akin to an "armed ambush".



But as long as we're on the subject of "threatening behavior":

27. The next time you see an open carrier, take it off of them and pistol whip them. Then when their family complains, tell them that it was their fault that they didn't shoot their way out of it.

I completely support one's right to disarm a gun nut and whip them with the thing, laughing at them whilst they pee their pants. Some of these open carriers are asking for it.

(link)

I'd appreciate it if you would go over there and report that comment as abusive, since you clearly have a strong opinion about that sort of over the top public posturing.

[ileus]

9. And here I thought everyone had eaten crow over this pic last year....guess not.

[stone space]

11. The camera is not the problem, although you'd like to imagine that it is.

The problem is with the guns and the bullying.

[ileus]

13. Every picture tells a lie.

Choose not to believe.

[stone space]

10. What is the proper angle to photograph ammosexuals...

...stalking and intimidating 4 mothers eating lunch in a restaurant?

And perhaps add a note about how the picture you used is one the group posed for and use it from its proper angle

The problem with this sort of threatening behavior is not the angle of any photograph.

It is the behavior itself.

You are attempting to place the blame for such armed intimidation on a photographer.

[blueridge3210]

12. Um, no....

"You are attempting to place the blame for such armed intimidation on a photographer."

The poster is demonstrating that the photo was taken from a specific angle with the intent to deceive.

Viewed from the front, the behavior is in no way threatening or "bullying" (a meaningless phrase used quite often to describe speech on cannot refute that defeats an argument).

"stalking and intimidating" - so taking a group picture in a public area is "Stalking and Intimidating"?

[stone space]

48. It is armed bullying.

Viewed from the front, the behavior is in no way threatening or "bullying" (a meaningless phrase used quite often to describe speech on cannot refute that defeats an argument).

"stalking and intimidating" - so taking a group picture in a public area is "Stalking and Intimidating"?

This whole notion that changing the camera angle makes it innocuous is stupid.

Here's another photograph of Open Carry Texas in a restaurant threatening customers and their families eating there.

One of them (Guy Potter) was also in the group above who showed up to gunstalk the 4 mothers above.

This time they are actually inside of a restaurant.

They even brought a child, and exposed that child to their gun antics. That child was in extreme danger, but they don't even seem to care.

[blueridge3210]

49. Um, still no.

It is in no way "armed bullying". How exactly are slung long guns "threatening"? What is placing the child in "extreme danger"?

Words, regardless of proper spelling, have meaning and definition. You do not get to mak your own definition to suit your political agenda any more than you get to invent your own Calculus equations.

[stone space]

50. Oh, come on! That child is lucky to be alive today, and you and I both know that.

What is placing the child in "extreme danger"?

That's a murderous bunch there in that restaurant. And they're armed to the teeth, and backing each other up.

[blueridge3210]

51. What makes them a "murderous bunch"?

Their weapons are slung and they are not threatening anyone. They do not have felony records on domestic violence convictions as evidenced by their lawful possession of firearms. What about them poses a threat to the safety of the child?

[stone space]

52. They don't love that child. Just look at them with their guns. Why is the kid even there?

What about them poses a threat to the safety of the child?

Do you think that the innocent civilians in that restaurant might have children there with them, also?

Those dangerous ammosexuals are exposing the children of all of the other customers to the same kind of twisted "love" that they have for the child they brought along with them.

I don't trust them to treat their own children right, much less anybody else's children who might be in that restaurant when that photograph was taken.

[blueridge3210]

53. You have yet to explain what makes them "murderous"

or dangerous. You've letting your dislike of guns affect your judgement.

[stone space]

54. One of them murdered two people. But we're told...

...it's safe enough to let them carry their guns around our children in a restaurant.

You have yet to explain what makes them "murderous"

or dangerous. You've letting your dislike of guns affect your judgement.

I'm letting reality affect my judgment.

[beevul]

55. Fortunately, your "trust", is not a requirement of others.

And never will be.

[stone space]

56. If they can't be trusted with their own children, why...

...should we trust them with our children?

Fortunately, your "trust", is not a requirement of others.

And never will be.

Do you have any sympathy at all for the child in that photograph, or don't you?

Any sympathy for the other children in that restaurant at the time?

[Lurks Often]

57. Oh noes, the horror of it all!!!!

Just because you hate and fear guns and gun owners doesn't mean the people in the restaurant do as well.

What makes you think you are qualified to speak for them? That's pretty arrogant on your part.

[stone space]

58. That murderous group brings their guns into a resturaunt with small children.

That's pretty arrogant on your part.

So you decided to complain about my arrogance over my concern for children?

Seriously?

[DonP]

59. You mean the "murderous group" that hasn't injured anyone? That Group?

Still waiting for that first story about the open carry protesters that shot someone, somewhere?

Or is this one of those "Pre-Crime" issues.

Let me guess, you can just tell they are going to do something criminal, so let's save time, just have the local cops give them a beat down on your behalf and with your approval, take all their legal guns, take their children from them and throw them in the clink while you think up appropriate charges?

So..., aside from what they are allowed to do with their time and money, where they can go in public, their choice of hobbies and what they are permitted to do with their own children, what other facets of law abiding citizen's lives do you want to control and make them live by your "standards" Comrade Zampolit?

Yeah, that's pretty damn arrogant, condescending and ill informed.

But then again so are most of your posts on this issue.

You are so damn sure of so much that just isn't so.

Thank heavens no one has to listen to you in the real world.

[stone space]

61. The four ammosexuals in that photo have a 50% murder rate.

Last edited Tue Apr 14, 2015, 01:37 PM - Edit history (2)

They've murdered two so far.

You mean the "murderous group" that hasn't injured anyone? That Group?

These are the specific individuals that we are being told are safe to be carrying semi-automatic weapons around our children in restaurants, whether we like it or not.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

62. Have you read the news headlines lately?

The police you insist be the only ones armed and be sent out to enforce your beloved ControlZ Lawz are actually murdering people.

[stone space]

63. We're talking about the four ammosexuals in that photo.

Who invaded a restaurant with their guns, with a child in tow.

That specific group of four with a 50% murder rate between them.

With a child!

So sad!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

64. And you seem to think that they some how reflect on ALL gun owners?

By your rules Amy Bishop represents all college professors.

[Lurks Often]

60. Oh, I stopped taking you seriously a long time ago

I'm sure you can provide proof that the people in the photo are convicted criminals.

Do you also have some sort of proof that the rest of the people in the restaurant were so scared that they got up and left or are you projecting your own fear of guns and gun owners on others again?

The restaurant didn't seem to mind them there, since they did not have a sign prohibiting firearms (here is the link to the TX law that provides for the sign: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/7/30/30.06) and didn't ask them to leave.

[Lurks Often]

14. I see you are making up your own laws again

Stalking has a specific legal definition under a state's criminal code and since none of them were arrested that day, it's reasonable to accept that they did not reach the legal threshold of stalking.

As for "intimidating" that's a rather broad and subjective concept. If someone happens to be intimidated by people abiding by the laws of the state they reside in, maybe the issue isn't the people abiding by the law.

[DonP]

20. Shhh, he thinks he just discovered something new

The debunking of the whole picture and the Shannon Watts inspired PR con that got the gun control people all excited happened before he was here, so it doesn't matter. Besides, you know GUNZ!!!

(If I recall, I think they were all on their way to their Calculuz class that afternoon.)

[Lurks Often]

21. I also notice that he tends to disappear for a couple of days

when the threads aren't quite going the way he wants or when someone tries to get him to answer certain questions such as "How are you going to keep guns out of your classroom if the state and university change their laws and policies to allow campus carry"

[DonP]

23. Yup, another drive by poster

They tend to follow a pattern.

They show up all full of righteous indignation that "there are actually gun owners on DU and they aren't ashamed of themselves. Something must be done about this!"

They trot out the same, old tired claptrap, like that Shannon Watts inspired Open Carry picture scam, as if it's news.

When they get handed their hat again and again, they get "feisty" and eventually say something, either here or in another forum, where they go to vent that gets them "Tombstoned".

A few are so stupid, they go up to ATA and bug the shit out of Skinner about how wrong he is to allow these "obviously right wing trolls" on this site and does he know about them?

Then, like Shares United and others they come back 2 or 3 times but just can't help themselves from repeating the same stupidity.

[stone space]

32. Are you seriously going to pretend that they haven't murdered anybody?

I'm hoping you can go back and edit that post to include the "murderous" things they did.

[S_B_Jackson]

38. If he's not, I will

I'm aware of NO INSTANCES where a member of Open Carry Texas/ Open Carry Tarrant County have been alleged, indicted, or convicted of murder.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

[Shamash]

43. Your post was about the -group- making the protest

I figure if you had evidence that either group has a murderous history ("they haven't murdered anybody" implies a group action), you would have shown it. Conversely, if any individual of that group has committed a murder I would expect you as a liberal to judge the group as a whole in the same way as you consider homosexuals as a whole in the wake of homosexual priests molesting altar boys, or the way you consider abortion providers as a whole in the wake of the Kermit Gosnell arrest, how you consider Christians as a whole in the wake of Westboro Baptist protests, how you consider Muslims as a whole in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack, or how you consider news organizations as a whole despite the conduct of Bill O'Reilly.

So either the group is murderous, as you claimed, or they are not.

And you are either attempting to malign an entire group with a double standard that you would dare not apply to anyone else, or you are not attempting to do so.

"Demonizing the enemy" and "guilt by association" are classic propaganda techniques, so if you do have an argument to make, try to avoid these if you want to be seen as someone who is not merely spewing propaganda. Accusing the group of crimes (stalking, murder, bullying) for which the group has neither been arrested or charged, and then doubling down on it, is not something that lends you any credibility.

[stone space]

44. How many people do Open Carry Texas/Open Carry Tarrant County have to murder...

...before one can comment on their murderous history?

One?

Two?

They are a very small group. And they haven't been around for very long.

How many murders are such a small group of people allowed to commit over such a short time before we are allowed to comment here on DU on the murderous history of this tiny new group of ammosexuals?

[hack89]

45. They have no murderous history if the have not murdered anyone.

have they?

[friendly_iconoclast]

46. For an purported person of science, you sure are piss-poor at research...

So, I've done *some* of it for you:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22victoria+dunnhachie%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=%22veronica+dunnachie%22&spell=1

Please give us the names of the other members of OCT/OCTC
that were charged in this case, or were demonstrably 'in on it'.

After all, you haven't been banging on without evidence about how the group is guilty
of murder, amirite?

Of course, if you *can't* come up with any names...it would mean that you're just as guilty of collective guilt tripping as the bigots Shamash pointed out in post #43 above

[Marengo]

47. You are a member of a profession that contains individuals that have sexually assaulted students...

Shall we apply the collective guilt concept to your "group"?

[sarisataka]

15. As the picture

has already been challenged and shown to be a matter of perspective I will question a different factoid of this tale.

The spokeswoman said that the restaurant manager did not want to call 911, for fear of “inciting a riot” and waited for the gun advocates to leave.

Assuming they spoke to the management and that was the reply, why did no one else call 911? Did none of the moms or other patrons have cell phones? If I was in a restaurant and

the members and restaurant customers were “terrified by what appeared to be an armed ambush

I sure as hell am calling the police. They can deal with the "riot" ...

[petronius]

7. Open carry of this sort was legal here in California until 2012, so one way I'd suggest

assessing this is to ask yourself whether you ever encountered these demonstrations here (they did occur), and whether they had an effect on your quality of life and/or perception of CA up through 2012 - that might give a rough estimate of how much they'd affect your experience in Texas.

I think it's probably true that there are more guns overall in Texas, and more people (legally) carrying concealed than in California, but aside from the unlikely chance of encountering an open-carry demonstration I doubt that you'd ever notice it. I'm no Texas expert, but in my travels there (totaling probably ~1-2 months on the ground over the years) I can't recall ever seeing a gun outside of the expected areas, or being made aware of any firearms-related cultural difference.

So, although there will be a culture shock, my opinion is that this video should not weigh heavily (if at all) in your larger assessment of Texas as a destination...

[R B Garr]

24. Wow, I never realized that about California!

It seems like I should have known this, but I'm not exposed to guns at all, so I haven't had much incentive to familiarize myself with the laws.

But I've obviously never, ever seen anything like this video or even anything on anyone's person here in California. Never once.

Thanks for the info. That's a good perspective to consider -- if I've already been living with it, but never realized it, that's probably the reality of how it would continue.

[Eleanors38]

17. As you can see by #5, the gun control/banners have turned RKBA into a culture war...

The open-carry issue comes from a reading of Texas law which allows OC of long guns, but not handguns (handguns can, with licensing, be carried concealed). The OC of long guns has been described as a political move to get the legislature to legalize OC of handguns. I'm not particularly supportive of the latter, but should it pass, the "issue" should resolve itself "stylistically" if for no other reason than even most Texans aren't too hot on OC.

I believe CA allowed OC until recently. The state is under pressure to enact laws recognizing the right to carry in SOME matter which is constitutional; I.e., not through the current elitist "may issue" scheme. NOTE: Diane Feinstein once had a concealed-carry permit and carried. Bet you can't get one.

Hope this helps.

[R B Garr]

37. Yes, it helps. Thx for the response, but I have to wonder....

doesn't the Open Carry Texas display in that video violate the spirit of the open carry law? I kind of doubt it was intended to be a show of force to intimidate other citizens. I think they are hurting their cause with stylistic displays such as this.

[Eleanors38]

40. Actually, the OC of long guns was clarified about 10 yes ago when the legislature passed a bill

supported by the Tex Rifle Assoc. AND the Texas Civil Liberties Union (strange bedfellows, those). Before the law, counties were left to enforce gun laws with respect to OC, visibility, sites, etc. Inevitably, a hunter in a pickup with a rifle on the headache rack was no big deal in some counties, but a goose hunter with a shotgun on the backseat was arrested returning to Houston on an expressway.

The OC handgun group is trying to leverage the issue in favor OC handguns, arguing in effect: "Which do you want?" with the implied assumption that they won't carry those menacing rifles if we can carry a pistol. And they probably won't. I doubt many would carry handguns openly, either. I think the issue of licensing goes to concealed-carry. The South was among the most restrictive regions regarding concealed carry, weeding out those Certain Someones with the literacy-test-type "may issue" screening. That changed after the Civil Rights era.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

26. What would happen if 50 Black guys open carried down main street usa...

[R B Garr]

27. I have to admit that crossed my mind as I watched the video!

Absolutely.

[Shamash]

29. What would happen

Is that Ronald Reagan would have a fit and pass a law against it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x439126

[R B Garr]

36. Okay...I was still thinking Houston or Texas

I see what the poster No Justice was probably referring to. Thanks.

[S_B_Jackson]

39. Nothing at all...

at least nothing's ever happened when Quannell X and his New Black Panther Party brethren do so - even when they did so at the Texas state GOP Convention in Houston several years ago. Although, one old-timer found it offensive got in their faces about it and got accidentally knocked to the ground by one of the NBPP members - no arrests resulted.

[Eleanors38]

41. Why wonder? Google pictures Huey P. Newton Gun Club in the liberal mecca of Dallas.