America and guns

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

The U.S. has about 300,000,000 firearms. The estimate is that around half of those are handguns. Of the 322,583,006 people here, some estimates say over 100,000,000 own a gun of type. Why? What is it about the US that makes it unique in that way?

[clffrdjk]

1. somebody has to be on that side of the bell curve.

It just happens to be us.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

2. I don't subscribe to coincidence

I think there are reasons.

[clffrdjk]

3. Of course there are, but those reasons only really mater when they are used as a tool in a debate.

It all boils down to other countries choose to have fewer guns than we do. The circumstances behind those choices are innumerable.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. IMHO...

...the greatest degree of firearm evolution occurred during the 19th century. This coincided with the American pioneer period during which wild and mostly uncivilized areas were being settled and growing in population. A natural need for those activities is a means for self-defense.

http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/technique/gun-timeline/

The spirit in US through its founders and many leaders of the time was to view firearm possession as respectable and, basically, part of militia duty. The Civil War, IMO, cemented the idea of this need.

[gejohnston]

4. because we have more stuff

we have more TVs, too big houses, public storage units, pairs of shoes, too. Why would guns be any different?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

11. Consumerism exploded in the '50s and '60s but...

...I think this goes back to the 1800s. Consumerism, I think, is why some folks have collections today. They're able to afford moderately expensive hobbies.

[DonP]

5. That whole "consent of the governed" thing is at the root IMHO

The idea of the "consent of the governed" was a pretty radical idea in a world of monarchs and theocracies.

Even with the erosion of that idea the people, in most cases, still get what they want and obviously, lying, whining and dissembling non withstanding from the control side, guns make up part of who America is.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

13. That's another part of it

The government is armed. Police, "Armed" Forces... they all have guns. Since the power of the government is derived from the people, the people have that right.

Add to that, the spirit and attitude expressed by the Founders; George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed."

[beevul]

6. Because ours was one of very few nations, that at the time of its governments conception...

Because ours was one of very few nations, that at the time of its governments conception, made a "hands off" list which contained a provision that included the right of the people to keep and bear arms as one of the things government should keep its hands off, as well as other amendments which while not naming the right, protect it none the less.

And 30 plus state constitutions which also protect that right.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

15. We weren't the first country...

...to have a founding document(s) but we were the first to have such a concise Constitution that also incorporated heavy restrictions of government to protect individual rights. A very high percentage of governments formed in the last 200 years have used the US Constitution as a model.

IMHO, this was also a major contributing factor.

[NutmegYankee]

7. Because we can.

Seriously. The right to own guns has been fairly unique in a world of control over people.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

17. Agreed

See my comments up-thread.

[ManiacJoe]

9. Age and location of the country seems to have a lot to do with it.

By the time guns were invented, virtually all of the European countries were long established with fixed borders.

The USA is a relatively new country that had lots of wilderness to expand into, thus giving the common folk lots of legal uses for guns.

[NYC_SKP]

10. Yes, timing and circumstances.

Our founding and expansion were getting on a roll at precisely the same time as manufacturing technologies were exploding, with us taking a leading roll.

Add to this the manner in which we fought a revolution for freedom from a foreign power AND simultaneously needed to expand westward, kill game (and native americans) and generally have those tools for use.

Finally, if you have a Second Amendment, you're going to use it or lose it.

So, I think you nailed it.

[Electric Monk]

12. and genocide, and "manifest destiny". nt

[gejohnston]

14. that was the military and State

you know, the only ones who "should have them".

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

16. ^^^ Sub-thread killer ^^^

[Electric Monk]

20. and homesteads, and frontier living. nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

21. It used to be illegal to sell guns to the natives.

Apparently it gave them a fighting chance or something.

[gejohnston]

22. and the cities had street criminals, gangs

and other nefarious urban dwellers, which is why women's hand muffs often had built in holsters for small pistol. The small pistol carried by the black suited villain in the B westerns were marketed to middle class urban women. That isn't to say the local well dressed gambler or wantabe Koch didn't have one, just not most of them.

[NYC_SKP]

18. Did I not mention native americans and expansion?

We are exceptional, EM, and our guns were and always will be a key factor in what makes us so.

Perfect? Hardly, not even exemplary.

We shit on the hard working people that made this country great, but that's one of the reasons that you won't be taking anyone's guns away.

Sooner or later, and hopefully later, the worm will turn.

Do you understand the symbology of the Gadsden flag?

I love how it was at first a Ben Franklin inspired revolutionary message, then later appropriated by Tea Party types, but then reappropriated by our team!

The Second Amendment, it's not the First Amendment but it's actually adjacent to it!™

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. There was no shortage of wild animals and...

...even wilder highwaymen and hostile Native Americans.

[kcci]

23. In the Old World, ownership of weapons has been prohibited to the lower classes for millennia

and hunting has been a legal activity reserved for the upper classes.

This is turned on its head in the USA, where firearms and hunting is associated with the common people.

In the Old World, prohibition of weapons were used by elites to oppress the masses.
In the New, the right to keep weapons protected the masses.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

24. Re: "...the old world..."

Meaning Western Europe???

[ManiacJoe]

25. Europe and Asia.

[randys1]

26. NRA which exists to sell guns has convinced a bunch of folk they need them, and the ones

they cant convince of that they have told them they have a right to them so why not.

It is a capitalist thing.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

27. If you elect to not defend yourself that is your right.

[randys1]

28. What the fuck? Is that a threat?

And who in the hell do you think you are defending yourself from?

First, lets make sure you are not threatening me.

Then, once I am certain you are not, and I will make that decision, go ahead and tell me who you are afraid of, please.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

29. It's not even close to a threat. I think everyone has a right to defend themselves.

But you are not obligated to do so. However, what you do NOT have is a right to do is demand others disarm themselves.

go ahead and tell me who you are afraid of, please.

It is no more a matter of fear than wearing a seat belt, carrying insurance or reading labels. Surely you're not suggesting violent crime is simply a figment of people's imagination.

[clffrdjk]

30. you are off your rocker

Nothing at all in that post could be considered a threat.
How about you explain how the NRA was selling guns 100 years before they existed then we can go on from there.

[Duckhunter935]

31. "What the fuck? Is that a threat?"

that is a stretch