Was Reagan, 1981-1989, a pro-gun president?

[jimmy the one]

Pro gun arguments first, gun control follow; should be interesting from democrat aspect

Reagan entered 1980 presidential campaign as a known supporter of the right to keep and bear arms.
2 Reagan left little doubt about his stance on {2ndA}: “In my opinion, proposals to outlaw or confiscate guns are simply unrealistic panacea.”
3 Saying {2ndA} “leaves little, if any, leeway for the gun control advocate,” .. “the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive.”
4 His presidential administration did not bring about any new gun control laws of significance.
5 The lone piece of significant legislation related to gun rights during the Reagan administration was the {FOPA} Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.
Which contained numerous pro gun regulations some which follow.
Among other things, {FOPA, signed by Reagan}: .. made it easier to transport long rifles across the US, ended federal records-keeping on ammunition sales and prohibited the prosecution of someone passing through areas with strict gun control with firearms in their vehicle, so long as properly stored.
5a {FOPA86} In order to comply with the prohibition on a Federal registry of non-NFA items, background check records are legally required to be destroyed after 24 hours.
5b The gun rights movement lobbied Congress to pass the FOPA to prevent the abuse of regulatory power — in particular, to address claims that the ATF was repeatedly inspecting FFL holders for the apparent purpose of harassment..{this was rightwing BS}.
5c {FOPA} mandated that ATF compliance inspections can be done only once per year.. a follow-up inspection would be if guns could not be accounted for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
9 A more lasting impact of Reagan’s policy on guns was the nomination of several Supreme Court justices — Sandra Day O’Connor, Rehnquist, Scalia, Kennedy — the latter two were still on the bench for a pair of important Supreme Court rulings on gun rights in the 2000s: http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Gun-Rights-Ronald-Reagan.htm

Gun Control Support: Post presidency, also rumored in early stages of alzheimers: March {1991} .. .. that former President Reagan had endorsed a national 7-day waiting period for handgun purchases, ... opponents of gun control say they feel betrayed by Mr. Reagan, the prince they had campaigned for, idolized and trusted. "I felt somebody had stabbed me in the back," said Metaksa, a former official {NRA} who headed Sportsmen for Reagan/Bush. http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/30/us/old-ally-wounds-gun-control-foes.html
In the past, Mr. Reagan, a lifetime member of {NRA}, spoke favorably of waiting periods and background checks. But he always said it should be a matter for the states to decide.
President Reagan will forever be remembered fondly by Second Amendment supporters, many of who are among the American conservatives who consider Reagan a poster child of modern conservatism. But words and actions of Reagan, the 40th President.., left behind a mixed record on gun rights.
Pre Presidency: mainstream American view at the time: Mulford Act was a 1967 California bill which repealed a law allowing public carrying of loaded firearms. Named after Republican Mulford, the bill garnered national attention after the Black Panthers marched bearing arms to protest the bill. The bill was signed by Repub Calif Gov Ronald Reagan..

7 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Reagan was a pro-gun president (81 - 89), afterwards too
	0 (0%)
	Reagan was pro-gun as president, not nec prior or after
	1 (14%)
	Reagan leaned pro-gun as president, not nec prior or after
	0 (0%)
	Reagan as pres was neutral, middling on guns & gun control
	6 (86%)
	Reagan was more for guncontrol as president 81-89
	0 (0%)
	Dunno, Doncare, no op
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[hack89]

1. I don't think guns were a priority to him. nt

[jimmy the one]

2. well, nra thinks he was pro-gun

hack: I don't think guns were a priority to him. nt

Much as it pains me to post these rightwing quotes, from all around:

blog, pdf files elsewhere, can't copy: On page 276 of Reagan's Autobiography he wrote that he always kept a gun in the house for home protection. Also in the book Dutch, Morris writes on page 237 that the movie studio police licensed Reagan to carry a .32 Smith and Wesson for protection due to threats. There had been threats of acid attacks again Reagan at the time. And finally in page 709 (the footnotes of Dutch) it is mentioned that Reagan carried a 1934 Walther PPK .380 pocket pistol that he acquired during his days in Des Moines. Reagan said he carried the pistol in his briefcase, even while he was president. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=503036

May 9, 1983, NRA named President Reagan an Honorary Life Member, a title bestowed to just 19 individuals in the 133-year history of NRA. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-86144.html

nra: WHEREAS, Ronald Reagan so exemplified the values, beliefs, and views of the membership of the National Rifle Association of America that in 1980 he became the only candidate in its history to be endorsed by the Association for the office of President of the United States

nra: WHEREAS, despite great personal adversity, President Reagan has forcefully stood by his convictions in support of the second amendment right of citizens to keep and bear arms for any legitimate purpose, including self-defense;

"We will never disarm any American who seeks to protect his or her family from fear and harm." -- Ronald Reagan

-- former President Ronald Reagan, now in death enjoying near-universal acclaim from gun owners as the best president in our lifetime. .

And why is the Second Amendment Foundation telling its supporters, “President Reagan knew the value of gun ownership?”

[hack89]

3. That doesn't mean it guns were a priority

it simply means that when the issue came up he was more likely than not to go along with what was popular with his political base.

[jimmy the one]

4. stunning to contemplate

So far only one of ten 'middling' votes bothered to justify his response, & that with a weak tweet. Not that it's a mandatory requirement to justify, but I would sure like to hear some opposing arguments to counter the vast preponderance of 'Reagan pro-gun' evidence I've provided. Rather than sounds of silence.
I could understand if gun-control democrats voted 'middling' to put Reagan half in the GC camp, but the ten respondents aren't guncontrol advocates. Maybe you are wanting to distance yourselves from a republican who was voted so progun by the nra & other rightwing groups? except your remarks on progun issues elsewhere tend to mirror nra views by & large, so doesn't really figure.
I think for progun advocates to claim that Reagan was as much for guncontrol as for 2ndA & guns, is one of the most utterly ridiculous things I've ever heard. In fact it gets a full page in my book 'GNs Say the Funniest Things'.

Or is it that this 'progun' reagan poll is being pushed by a gun control advocate (myself), precipitated by another DU rkba thread where 'straw man' was found to be woefully uninformed about Reagan's gun policy during his term as president?
straw man: The Mulford Act and the Brady Bill are both gun-control measures. On what do you base your conclusion that he was "considered pro gun"?

So could it be the lopsided votes for 'middling', are justified to help a floundering comrade?
Straw man obviously was not at all familiar with Reagan's gun policies as president, & was 'going to school' on what I was telling him. Straw man didn't initially know about federal FOPA86 being signed by RR and how FOPA hamstrung the federal Guncontrol Act of 1968, or RR's quotes & stances on 2ndA & guns, or RR's lifetime nra membership, or RR's pistol ownership (was that a violation of mulford or was he out of state then?), didn't know RR wanted states to decide their own gun issues. Straw man didn't know squat about Reagan, is he now a pied piper for you all? he has the same 'middling' opinion.

straw man: So Reagan liked background checks and waiting periods {while leaving it to states to decide}, promoted two very significant gun control initiatives {pre or post presidency}, and was deemed to have "stabbed" the NRA "in the back." {post presidency} The only pro-gun-rights legislation he signed was FOPA, which merely rescinded the parts of GCA '68 that had been deemed unconstitutional. Yet he was "pro-gun." The illogic is stunning to contemplate http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=160088

Mog, you & other inhibited gun enthusiasts, hear that? your opinion is 'stunning to contemplate' accd'g to straw man. Will peer pressure make you convert?

Oh, & straw man et all. If 'the only pro-gun-rights legislation {Reagan} signed was FOPA', please inform me of all the other pro-gun FEDERAL legislation enacted in the previous 50 years. 100 years. 200 years.
I admit I'm not up to speed on all the other federal PROGUN legislation enacted over the centuries, but I'm willing to learn about previous progun federal legs, straw man .. teach me.

[gejohnston]

5. maybe it would help to define your terms

If use the two extremes ("pro"=zero regulations of any kind and "anti"=prohibition), then Wayne LaPierre could be called "anti gun" because he supports background checks and his stupid "mental health registry).
At the same time, Jerry Brown could be viewed as "pro gun" because he vetos his fair share of gun control proposals, is a gun owner himself, and filed a friend of the court brief supporting Heller and McDonald.
Back to Ronnie, he was a gun owner. His older son Ron said he learned to shoot from his dad (even had his own .22 when he was a kid. I think he Ron Kuby were the best on Air America, but I digress). He might have been a bit of a Fudd (see Jim Zumbo or at least a couple of "anti gun" posters here are Fudds.) when it comes to AR type rifles, or simply did what he thought was political expedient and not based on any principle either way.

Personally, I really don't care what he was. It has no bearing on my views on guns, economics, or anything else.

[Straw Man]

6. Apparently, Jimmy, ...

... you started this whole thread to call me out based on our interaction in another thread. Too bad that you're not getting the results you hoped for. Now you're having a hissy fit over here, when the honest thing to do would have been to continue the discussion over there.

Funny thing about opinion polls -- what you get is people's opinions.

Now you're addressing me in a thread I wasn't even part of -- until now, of course. It doesn't speak highly of your rhetorical ethics, Jimmy.

Do you really think that FOPA "hamstrung" the GCA of 1968? It brought the GCA back into alignment with the Constitution. Wow, what a radical concept!

Oh, & straw man et all. If 'the only pro-gun-rights legislation {Reagan} signed was FOPA', please inform me of all the other pro-gun FEDERAL legislation enacted in the previous 50 years. 100 years. 200 years.
I admit I'm not up to speed on all the other federal PROGUN legislation enacted over the centuries, but I'm willing to learn about previous progun federal legs, straw man .. teach me.

I'm not inclined to do your homework for you, Jimmy. You can go back as far as you want. I'll only go back a couple of years:

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-laws-obama-has-signed-2012-12

Two pieces of pro-gun legislation signed by Obama. I guess that makes him a "pro-gun President," huh?

Oh, and by the way, JFK was an NRA life member too. Those were different times, of course, but so were the 1980s.

[jimmy the one]

7. radical misconcept

straw man: Do you really think that FOPA "hamstrung" the GCA of 1968? It brought the GCA back into alignment with the Constitution. Wow, what a radical concept!

You remain woefully ignorant re FOPA1986 & employ your usual casuistry. The 2ndAmendment in 1986 wasn't recognized as an individual right.
Perhaps 'gutted' is a better word than 'hamstrung', I was being cautious. Tell me how to apply your above rationale to what FOPA itself referred to as 'clarification' of the 'older' 1968 GC act:

FOPA: Clarification of prohibited persons... The older Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits firearms ownership in the US by certain categories of individuals thought to pose a threat to public safety. However, this list differed between the House and the Senate versions of the bill, and led to confusion. The list was later augmented, modified, and clarified in the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. The 1986 list is:
Anyone who has been convicted in any court of a felony punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, excluding those crimes punishable by imprisonment related to the regulation of business practices, whose full civil rights have not been restored by the State in which the firearms disability was first imposed.
Anyone who is a fugitive from justice.
Anyone who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substances.
Anyone who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution.
Any alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa. The exception is if the nonimmigrant is in possession of a valid hunting license issued by a US state and/or has been granted a waiver from the Attorney General.
Anyone who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
Anyone who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.
Anyone that is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner. (Added in 1996, with the Lautenberg Amendment.)
Anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. (Added in 1996, with the Lautenberg Amendment)
A person who is under indictment or information for a crime (misdemeanor) punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding two years cannot lawfully receive a firearm. Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information, and if cleared or acquitted can receive firearms without restriction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

FOPA, where's the unconstitutionality in the unamended law?: No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Atty General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require ... that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established.

There was a militia census in 1803 by Dearborn under jeff, which accounted for people's guns, so I don't see any unconstitutionality in registering firearms.

[Straw Man]

9. In Jimmy's lexicon ...

... "clarification" = "gutting." Laughable, actually.

[jimmy the one]

11. your perverted misrepresentation

strawman: In Jimmy's lexicon ..... "clarification" = "gutting." Laughable, actually.

It's laughable only when using your perverted misrepresentation of what others say, & unbiased readers don't wanna do that. Your above remark is a red herring.
I did not define clarification as equal to hamstringing or gutting, your dialectic reasoning is non sequitur. I wrote that 'FOPA' hamstrung or 'gutted' the GCA68.

What I'd written: ... and how FOPA hamstrung the federal Guncontrol Act of 1968..
then a following post I wrote: Perhaps 'gutted' is a better word than 'hamstrung', I was being cautious.

Those were my personal remarks on the effects on the GCA68 by FOPA.
Wiki, or perhaps FOPA's wording, is where 'clarification' came from. By clarifying who was a prohibited person, FOPA revised the GCA68. I then referred to the revision as hamstringing or gutting the GCA68, which it was metaphorically & to some extent literally.

FOPA: Clarification of prohibited persons... The older Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits firearms ownership in the US by certain categories of individuals thought to pose a threat to public safety. However, this list differed between the House and the Senate versions of the bill, and led to confusion. The list was later augmented, modified, and clarified in the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. The 1986 list is:
Anyone who has been convicted in any court of a felony punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, excluding those crimes punishable...

Unbiased readers will see thru strawman's chicanery. FOPA augmented & modified & clarified the substance of the GCA68, & rendered it, metaphorically, to some extent hamstrung, even gutted to some extent.
You're a very silly man imo.

[Straw Man]

12. You call it "gutted," ...

... unbiased readers call it "clarified."

See how that works? I may be a "silly man" in your opinion, but your opinions are suspect, to say the least.

[jimmy the one]

8. JFK backed a 'well regulated militia' centric concept

strawman: Two pieces of pro-gun legislation signed by Obama. I guess that makes him a "pro-gun President," huh?

You argue against yourself - Obama's support for those relatively minor progun legislations don't make him 'progun' any more than Reagan's GC support post presidency change him from being 'progun'. Obama's second term defines him as being for guncontrol. His first term could perhaps be defined as 'middling' - nra called him the great satan.

strawman: You can go back as far as you want. I'll only go back a couple of years:

translation: I strawman, don't know of any previous progun federal legislation prior to Reagan signing the 'federal firearm owner's protection act of 1986 - aka FOPA86'. Probably because there weren't any, or nothing with teeth.
So Reagan signed FOPA86, did not enact any guncontrol legislation during his 2 terms, was first presidential candidate endorsed by the knox-era nra, yet accd'g to strawman & 10 others he was as much for guncontrol as progun. Ridiculousness.

strawman: JFK was an NRA life member too.

That was pre-knox nra prior early 70's, the benign nra which offered all presidents honorary memberships, when nra was often for guncontrol efforts, including partially GCA68, which was also supported by Charlton heston. Did JFK ever address an nra convention?
JFK inspired the 1968 Gun Control Act, and violent crime was at low levels, while under Reagan the violent crime rate rose about 4x from 60's & murder rate rose 2 or 3x, so for Reagan to support some token guncontrol post presidency was quite understandable, without sacrificing his progun mentality.

And here's what JFK thought of 2ndA, read & weep: “John F. Kennedy supported {2ndA} rights for Americans, saying in an April 1960 statement, “By calling attention to a well-regulated militia, the security of the nation and the right of each citizen to keep and bear arms, our founding forefathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of government tyranny, which gave rise to the Second Amendment, will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains a major declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important.” http://watchdogwire.com/florida/2013/11/18/remembering-president-john-f-kennedy-nra-lifetime-member/

Next, explain this 2011 NRA tribute to reagan: On the centennial anniversary of his birth, the National Rifle Association pays tribute to one of its most loved and admired members, President Ronald Wilson Reagan--a true patriot and defender of our Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
.. President Reagan addressed the NRA membership at the NRA Annual Meetings in Phoenix, Ariz. on May 6, 1983; the only time it’s been done by a sitting U.S. president. In his 37-minute, electrifying speech, President Reagan affirmed that he shared NRA members” beliefs on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and the rights of hunters. He commended NRA for its efforts to preserve the Second Amendment.https://www.nraila.org/articles/20110317/100-years-remembering-president-ronald
“No group does more to promote gun safety and respect for the laws of this land than the NRA, and I thank you.” {pardon me while I puke}
President Reagan was endorsed by NRA in 1980--the first time the organization endorsed a candidate for president

Other presidents got it more right: In 1969, U.S. President Richard M. Nixon resigned {&/or disavowed} his honorary life membership to the NRA. 1995, former President H. W. Bush also resigned his life membership to the organization..

[Straw Man]

10. Again, Jimmy, ...

... I'm not going to do your homework for you. You know and I know that the bulk of federal action on guns has been restrictive. FOPA bucked the trend, but only in your eyes is it a significant rollback of the GCA. As for the significance of Obama's actions, they were sufficient to earn him an "F" from the Brady Campaign. I guess they didn't consult you.

Gee, did JFK really say "every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country"? Sounds like a full-auto M16 or M4 in every closet to me. What are we waiting for?

Now why don't you go over the the other forum and see if you get some ringers in here to pump up your poll results. They should come to the aid of their buddy, don't you think?

[jimmy the one]

13. belated reply, veiled booomp

straw man: Again, Jimmy, ... You know and I know that the bulk of federal action on guns has been restrictive. FOPA bucked the trend, but only in your eyes is it a significant rollback of the GCA.

You in a hole should stop digging, & rather prostrate yourself to the jokers who think reagan neutral on guns. Don't think you've 'won' or anything. I thought it would be interesting, & fully expected ridiculousness on here.
The link disallows copying or I'd provide more, pg 275 listed under 'Reagan'. You say 'only in (my) eyes' is FOPA a significant rollback of the GCA? how old are you? 20? 25? 30?:

Congress passed the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) during Reagan's Administration. The act was seen by gun control advocates as a severe setback to the progress of regulating guns that had been made by the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968.
... Reagan generally opposed gun control, but was not a member of the extreme gun rights camp...
https://books.google.com/books?id=DhRzjUeZK4oC&pg=PA275&lpg=PA275&dq=fopa+1986+reverse+gun+control+act+1967+gca&source=bl&ots=VWJOvjS5A7&sig=vz5JAJbqRRIgQeOeifye5GCvVJA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=f_v5VOqDN5HbggTdxIK4Cw&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=fopa%201986%20reverse%20gun%20control%20act%201967%20gca&f=false

straw man: As for the significance of Obama's actions, they were sufficient to earn him an "F" from the Brady Campaign. I guess they didn't consult you.

He's studied really hard since then & I think brady might be now giving him at least a B.

straw man: Gee, did JFK really say "every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country"? Sounds like a full-auto M16 or M4 in every closet to me.

Well that's just utterly absurd. But I guess it's 'you' baby.

straw man: Now why don't you go over the the other forum and see if you get some ringers in here to pump up your poll results. They should come to the aid of their buddy, don't you think?

I don't work that way. I want to confine to this board, & see what develops, prior to expanding the sample size to more moderate unbiased inputs.

[Straw Man]

14. Random Googling and gibberish from Jimmy.

You can find someone that will have said just about anything if you throw enough terms into your Google search.

I don't see what my age has to do with anything, but you're off by a factor of at least two. I'll leave you to figure out what that means.

You "don't work that way"? My, my, aren't we self-important ... Well, what developed? Please share your results. And where did you go for your "moderate unbiased inputs"?